An open letter to Riot regarding Kindred.

NeekoTrap·11/24/2017, 11:03:15 PM·5 votes·743 views

Kindred Dear Riot,

I used to love playing Kindred. They were my favourite champion in Season 6. Never before has a champion's playstyle and art and lore clicked with me in the same way that Kindred has. I mained Kindred in Season 6, climbing with them from the lowly rank of bronze to the lowly rank of silver. She was the first champion I reached mastery 7 with, and is currently my most played champion ever - even after picking up other champs and going nearly a season without having played Kindred.

So why did I stop playing Kindred? The playstyle I fell in love with was changed in patch 7.11. Kindred's playstyle was too close to a skirmisher and not like a marksmen in the jungle - that was the explanation for a soft rework that saw her passive, Q and E ratios changed. A lot of her power was traded off, a weak early game for an extremely strong late-game, so long as she got her marks. They used to deal on-hit damage, and so Kindred's kit and build was focused on dealing as much on-hit damage as possible, with Q for mobility and E for soft CC. It was a coherent kit that allowed her to scale into the lategame and deal with tanks effectively - since junglers are supposed to be tanks' natural enemy. In exchange, she was extremely weak to fighters, particularly divers and those with hard CC that could close the gap and lock her down - very similar to a marksman.

Now, her numbers have been changed to be significantly reduced damage. Her autos have lost their unique on-hit damage for a pitiful range increase. Her E now deals missing health, rather than maximum, which is stronger against squishier targets building less armor (as they'd have to already be low for it to deal significant damage). Her W has a cast time that's lengthy - before, her W was instant cast in an area around her, and felt smooth to buffer W->Q. Now there's a travel delay and it feels legitimately clunky. Kindred's build path is confused, she lacks a lot of latent damage and so builds into Warrior enchant, but seeing as she's an ADC she also needs to build attack speed and critical strike. This trifecta of damage boosts is fine on a tradition ADC, as they have a safe lane with a support, and the advantage of being able to farm a lane. In the jungle, this is more dangerous, as Kindred has low survivability against other champions and is susceptible to counterjungling - even while she has a passive that encourages them to be the counterjunglers.

Her post 7.11 rework feels clunky and it doesn't click in much the same way that her pre-rework kit used to. Even as her W's survivability underwent changes, and her ult's been changed since launch (did you know that kindred's W used to have a heal, similar to energized effects but was not itself an energized effect? Did you know her ult used to be castable on allies?); her core used to be smooth and consistent.

So why do I bring this up now? I made a post back when she was first changed on the boards, and it didn't get much traction. I was told that it was too soon to judge, and that sources weren't authentic enough (using op.gg and champion.gg data). Well, now I want to bring the discussion back up with the preseason, and I hope that maybe some discussion can be had about Kindred - and Jungle marksmen's role in the game. Riot recently released popularity data indicating that from 7.11, Kindred has been played by fewer people (less breadth), however, there is still a dedicated few who play her, as her depth is just above median as of 7.16. I can't be alone in thinking that she's lost her place in the game. In addition, new playstyles for marksmen, such as Jungle Ezreal, has come up into the meta and increased in popularity recently.

Jungle Ezreal is an interesting case, as his playstyle is similar to old Kindred's, except with more base damages and less unique mechanics. He has a mobility skill to close the gap, and two short-cooldown skillshots. As a traditional marksman, Ezreal has a unique playstyle in that he's less concerned about auto-attacks, and more concerned about correct positioning and landing skillshots. Theses are traits I feel he has similar to Kindred, except that he benefits more from jungling as his base stats and flat scaling give him a much more clear build-path, and he's safer as he doesn't need to collect unique marks and go into contested territory to get ahead. However, Jungle Ezreal plays much like a skirmisher, looking for short fights and ganks where he is almost guarenteed a kill, in order to get ahead and snowball himself and his team forward. A marksman has organically entered into the meta as a skirmisher-jungler, without being pushed there by means of a balance patch.

There is also the less popular case of Vayne jungle, who builds on-hits or critical strikes and plays in much the same way, looking for short 1v1 fights and taking objectives with her silver bolts.

With all this in consideration, I'd like to hopefully start a discussion with Riot, and with the community, about what could potentially be done to bring back a semblance of Kindred's old playstyle. Below the break I've posted my thoughts on what should be changed for Kindred, and my reasoning behind it, although this ends the open letter. Please discuss your thoughts and opinions.


Stats Hp/level reduced. Hp5 reduced. Armor reduced. Armor/level reduced. Voice Lines previously associated with Devourer/Sated Devourer now trigger while buying Guinsoos.

Reasoning: Kindred needs to be weak to invasion, but strong while invading. She needs to be able to pick her fights, but also vulnerable to being picked. As such, she needs to be squishier against champions. W will now have an energized effect as a compromise between the old heal and the new AS reduction. The AS reduction will be removed.

Passive - Mark of The Kindred No longer grants bonus range. For every stack Kindred gains, she gains 1% current health damage on-hit. This on-hit damage applies lifesteal. First mark will now be the nearest Rift Scuttler. If Kindred is below 1 mark/5 minutes, now marks one of her own jungle camps.

Reasoning: #CleanNumbers, as well as being more fair. Give Kindred back her on-hit passive, but make the damage easier to track (1 mark = 1% more damage). However, this gives Kindred less on-hit damage than before. The reason being her Q change. The first mark being the nearest rift scuttler is a simple QoL change that both allows her to start ramping up and also allows the enemy jungler to adjust their path if they want to stop the ramp. Giving her a mild catchup mechanic means that she won't be made completely irrelevant if she cannot secure enemy marks, but is also designed to not propel her as far as proper mark capturing.

Q - Dance of Arrows No longer grants attack speed on cast. AD Ratio changed to percentage of AD. (Overall damage should be reduced slightly without marks). Now applies on-hit damage. Does not apply Sheen effects. Cooldown: Changed to 12/11/10/9/8

Reasoning: Kindred's Q is her bread and butter skill, and using it should feel good. Allowing it to proc on-hits reinforces going into attack speed and on-hit effects, like Bloodrazor and Blade of the Ruined King. Having the AD ratio changed to reflect AD instead of bonus AD, also allows Kindred to spec into a Sheen item, and the Q doesn't apply sheen procs, in order to make the gameplay loop of casting-> attacking still meaningful. Since she is ranged, she also doesn't have to worry about becoming too strong with Sterak's Gage. With Q proccing her % damage more often, the blow of losing 0.125% current hp damage is softened. The cooldown is changed to be more punishing without the use of W, however, it is designed to now be affected by cooldown reduction when on the zone created by Wolf's Frenzy.

W - Wolf's Frenzy Self Cast again. Wolf's attacks now deal flat damage, scaling more with attack speed. +20 base damage at all levels. Does NOT proc on-hits. Ratio unchanged. Deals Physical damage again. Now reduces Q cooldown to 0.25 of its original cooldown, instead of flat reduction to 4/3.5/3/2.5/2. (Now affected by cooldown reduction.) No longer reduces jungle monster attack speed. Now grants 15% + 2.5% lifesteal per mark attached to an energized proc.

Reasoning: This will need careful balancing, and probably isn't perfect as I have set out above. Wolf's Frenzy should be physical damage to enable Kindred to buy into Black Cleaver. It should return to its energized based lifesteal, as it will enable Kindred to either move defensively into Fleet Footwork rune, as well as enhance energized items as an option without forcing her to build damage. As it is lifesteal, it is based off of her damage, encouraging her to get marks to stay relevant. Since it is a heal, which is a stronger defensive option, her Hp5, HP/level and armor/level will need to be reduced in order to compensate. As well, if she's buying into Black Cleaver, we don't want to see a playstyle whereby Kindred buys heavily into defensive stats. This will need to be very precisely tuned, as her Q being affected by CDR could mean we see a push into Essence Reaver+Black Cleaver transcendence build.

E - Mounting Dread Functionally Unchanged. Ratio changed to total attack damage to compensate for building less damage.

Reasoning: Kindred will be building less crit and less AD, and more attack speed. The change in 7.11 for Mounting Dread made the skill easier to read and made more sense.

R - Lamb's Respite Unchanged. Is good skill.

These are just some thoughts for where to push her. She should be encouraged to build primarily attack speed for damage, but also enabled to buy CDR and Health through Sheen items and Black Cleaver. We don't want to push her too far into the direction of a fighter or tank, as a lot of her damage is free with marks. She should be balanced towards lower LP, comparable to Master Yi, as she should be able to be shut down by a coordinated team. A potential build for this iteration of Kindred might look as follows:

item 1416 item 3078 item 3153 item 3071 item 3124 item 3094

TL;DR: Kindred's post-7.11 playstyle isn't as strong and is largely pushed out by other jungle marksmen. She's lost in popularity. I have some suggestions for a potential rework to try and push her back to being an On-Hit Skirmisher rather than building AD for her scaling. Push her build path to encourage doses of CDR and on-hit damage. Make her weak to gap being closed and hard CC, but rewarded for good positioning and kiting.

9 Comments

mosaickle11/24/2017, 11:28:03 PM2 votes

I'm gonna admit that it's too long and I didn't read, but I'd go for any kind of Kindred changes/buffs, you can only play so much of champions you play solely for visuals :P

WolfChases11/25/2017, 12:25:44 AM2 votes

The biggest problem I see with Kindred is her passive. It encourages counterjungling while Kindred is so damn weak to the point where almost every single jungler can kill her asap. Marks are also random af, I dont understand why does mark has to spawn at the completely other side of the map EG: I am at the top side of the map and suddenly mark appears at the enemy gromp thats on another side of the map lol.

I have a few suggestions:

  1. Marks should ALWAYS appear at the side of the map where Kindred is - If I am near the top than top crab, kruggs, raptors / If I am near bot than enemy gromp or bot side crab depending on your side ofc.

  2. Enemies should NOT be able to see the mark at the same time Kindred does. - I don't care if they can see it, it adds counterplay but 30 seconds lead for Kindred would be awesome. It's already risky to go to the enemy jungle as kindred, let her see the mark 30 seconds before anyone else can see it so she can actually get to the spot at time. Its really sad when enemy jungler happens to be closer to your own passive than you are so they can take it uncontested. Where is logic there?

  3. Slightly increase the range for her Q but ONLY when she jumps backwards - It would help A LOT while counterjungling and would not affect her gapcloser at all.

SoundChaosDebug11/24/2017, 11:10:55 PM1 votes

I thought I could commit to reading this, but even your too long didn't read is a paragraph.

Its All Skillzz11/24/2017, 11:37:38 PM1 votes

according to korea she is one of the most broken junglers right now lol.

Phoenix Incite11/25/2017, 7:29:16 AM1 votes

I've been a Kindred Main since she first came out and I have to say I agree and disagree.

Kindred needs help but because there's other factors at play:

Kindred is much too easy to bully based off their mark system, and Kindred is fairly reliant on marks should their team lanes start losing - and can't stop.

I enjoy the extra range, but it comes at too high a cost of not being able to hold their ground.

More than other junglers, Kindred has to run away to get space. Shaco can go invisible to do this, as can Eve - other champions are tankier or have other mechanics.

Kindred's Q is a one shot only kind of escape situation, its CD is too high.

Kindred is a sustain champ designed for a burst-ish role, which means that rather than attacking, scaring off, or executing champions quickly as most junglers do before having to back off to recharge, they have to work longer, harder for that kill, making them technically more vulnerable - open to attack for longer in the early and mid games, the most important parts.

Kindred needs to function better as a sustain-burst hybrid. There's a little bit in there with Wolf's E but not that much, and could maintain their current job better without being broken by increasing mobility through a lower cooldown of Kindred's Q whether in Wolf's CD bonus or otherwise.

Kindred doesn't have a way to deal with champions that get too close, and needs one.