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New effect for max syndra Q.....why not explosions?

lagartoloco94·10/22/2015, 4:44:59 AM·78 votes·3,493 views

Jokey title aside, those of us who like to wander surrender at 20 or such sites may remember that certain Riot employees discussed ways to make Syndra's transcendent q more engaging. I believe the last iteration mentioned, though don't quote me on it, was a mana return on q use which by the admission of some wasn't really a good idea at the moment. I believe the answer to this conundrum might be right under our noses if we look at Syndra's theme.

She exudes two major themes, unstable power waiting to be released, and someone who dominates with said power. Her dark spheres personify this. Via gameplay, they are direct indicators of her zoning potential. Artistically just by looking at them, especially when they fizzle out, you get a sense of instability like an atom about to split. And what just happens to occur when an atom splits? KABOOM.

To be clear I'm suggesting that along with/instead of the current Transcendent damage boost when summoning spheres, these detonate once they time out, either just causing a flat amount of damage or also causing some form of CC. This would be a good change for two reasons:

  1. Once maxed Q would redefine syndras zoning. "Even with my other options used up your still not safe near my spheres." Heck using her ult in the middle of a team fight would literally create a veritable mine filed (sorry teemo). Which brings us to the next point.
  2. It fits her theme so well. Syndra the dark sovereign, whatever her power touches is claimed and those who step on her lands foolishly pay the price. So yeah. Why not explosions?

Post note: Personally, considering she already has two other CC's, I'd forgo cc for a medium (but painful when stacked) amount of damage. And before the op comments roll in: It takes a bit of time for the balls to destabilize AND there is a visual indicator (which can be intensified if necessary) of said destabilization. So remember kids, if you get blown up by a Syndra q smack dab in an open field without being stunned or slowed ya'll got no one to blame but yourselves.

Additionally I'm including an alternate kit idea by Wyvernon in the comments below. It was too awesome not to include:

"What you're discussing sounds to me more like something that would be better fit as the maxed out passive for W.

i.e. You max-level W to lob an sphere into the midst of the enemy team. On impact, the orb appears especially volatile as it decays, and detonates on expiration. As nearby foes disperse to avoid the impending free damage, It reinforces Syndra's control motif as she watches her "playthings" run. The threat creates panic which enables her team's other skillshots to land more easily.

Mechanically, this is similar to Cass's ability to zone enemies from an area with her poison cloud, while also retaining an outrageous amount of burst damage. I only bring this up because when rebalancing a unit you usually look for comparative units with same but different play patterns. Cass is sustained burst with sustained zoning damage and Syndra is instant burst (Q / W shenanigans->E->R) with instantaneous zoning damage. I'd feel comfortable with the change since they would both still feel unique.

From a balance standpoint, making the detonation only trigger when W is used isolates the effect such that it doesn't alter the core behavior of landing Qs on one or more enemies and setting up an array of Qs for your E / R. My ideal Syndra would be one that is still powerful and bursty, but has some control over the nature of her power growth through her passive."

Ok one more alternate kit brought by Nebuul down in the comments. Quite possibly the most engaging idea since it covers her Q W and E!

“What about an alternate where her transcendent bonus was based on the order in which she maxed her non-ultimate abilities. I'll say Q1/Q2/Q3 meaning Q maxed first, second, or third.

Q1: 15% Damage to champions, Dark Spheres explode for 15% additional damage when they expire Q2: 15% Damage to champions Q3: 8% Damage to champions

W1: Slow duration increased to 3 seconds, Area of effect is doubled, units at the epicenter (original area) are slowed by 90% decaying to 45% over 1.5 seconds W2: Slow duration increased to 3 seconds W3: Slow duration increased to 2 seconds

E1: Area increased by 75%, Units hit by both the wave and a dark sphere are stunned for 2 seconds and take 50% increased damage E2: Area increased by 75% E3: Area increased by 50%”

Allright folks think that's all I can put before exceeding TL;DR critical mass but keep hashing out ideas in the comments below! I'm sure that section can handle Syndra's potential....theoretically. (screen cracks) Gulp

58 Comments

Old Man Teeto10/22/2015, 3:11:27 PM14 votes

So her Q now lays a landmine that she can shoot into the enemy team.

Would be hilarious.

Niyumi10/22/2015, 6:15:33 AM7 votes

I would really love that. It would give a whole new meaning to managing those little things. You could drop one or two down, E them into a team, and watch the explosion. It gives her a little more ranged poke, and it gives her more zoning -- and it fits really well with her theme! I just feel like, right now, her kit is kind of underwhelming, but this change (or just anything that makes her balls interact more when maxed) would really do her good.

Heck, you could even use your ult as a mobile minefield, instead of just a nuke on one person, which would force you to pick between nuking one person or helping whittle everyone down in a teamfight.

alfavhunter10/22/2015, 2:32:33 PM4 votes

Just make them have a mini mock back and 5+.1 ap ratio on explosion

So if you are standing in a sea of them when it happens it will still hurt, but individually it won't do much

For example

If it's detonate hits another dark sphere it causes that one to detonate as well, and adds that detonation damage to all targets hit by the first detonate

So let's say she Ilya and ends up with 6 balls at her enemy feet, and the first one detonates, hitting an enemy and a ball, this makes a chain reaction and detonates all nearby balls (say all got detonated for a total of 6) but only the first one was actually in range to hit the enemy, they would still take 30+ .6 ap as damage because of the chain reaction, the damage would apply similar to Sandra ult with multiple quick hits (but low damage) to all targets hit

Let's say same situation but you get hit by the vary last explosion, you still take the full 30+.6 ap damage, but all at once instead of multiple hits

This idea has merit because of the skill curve to do this

In return the spheres would need to be given a timer similar to Himers turrets and when the timer runs out they detonate

Kitten of Evil10/22/2015, 5:33:33 PM4 votes

Or just replace her passive with something more useful. Her W and Q passives could easily just be redefined to scale with level like Garen's heal, or to scale with points put in them. Ratios scaling is a common thing now, and I never understood why the Q bonus was "more damage" when that easily could be scaled in. Not like she's overpowered at the moment anyway.

Q damage: 50 (+60% AP) /103.6 (+62.25% AP)/157.2 (+64.5% AP)/210.8 (+66.75% AP)/264.5 (+69% AP) W slows enemies for 1.5/1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2.0 seconds (at level 1/4/7/10/13/16)

MyTeamIsAwsome10/23/2015, 12:49:19 PM3 votes

Patch 6.20: Michael bay Just bought league and multiple sound effects and particles have been changed to explosions since we know Everyone love them.

Tik11510/22/2015, 4:36:04 PM3 votes

EXPLOSIONS!?

Mr Tourge approves this

JFRANKSTA10/22/2015, 10:09:49 PM3 votes

Pls no just make her passive a real passive and leave her other abilities alone, because if they change those at all people are just going to whine about being opee, leading to undeserved nerfs

Actually xPeke10/22/2015, 4:39:10 PM2 votes

This would open up so many possibilties. W or E it into an enemy etc. I'm all in for it. +1

Audiomancy10/22/2015, 6:34:56 PM2 votes

I absolutely love this idea. Imagine charging up a 6 ball ult to burst someone down, followed by a bombardment of exploding spheres at the enemy team. Drool. W could also be changed to freeze a Sphere's current timer instead of resetting it (as it does now) for a sneak attack.

10/10. This is the kind of thing that would make a nigh-omnipotent super mage actually feel strong. Not just "hurr 15% damage".

softest boy10/22/2015, 8:14:54 PM2 votes

So her spheres can be moveable land mines! I like it. Place a mine and then send it into the enemy team with your stun, which makes the mine impossible to avoid if you land a stun! Same goes for her slow!

I hope this will become a thing!

Aspynn10/22/2015, 9:41:50 PM2 votes

I think it would be interesting if they made her Q at maxed like a mini ori ult or upgraded viktor w at the end, a small pull, maybe on like an ammo system so she couldn't just like constantly be pulling people around, because that would actually be really strong. But something like that would be interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of exploding balls but it's definitely a start, I hope they come up with something really good when they finally decide on something!

TekkenPlayer10/22/2015, 11:52:08 PM2 votes

That's a great idea. I thought just increasing the circumference of q and increasing the damage of e would suffice.

Wyvernon10/23/2015, 2:42:10 AM2 votes

I agree with you that her two major themes are "so much untapped power" and "I am in control" -- but I don't necessarily think the answer is buffing the Q-component of her passive. IMO there's a lot of focus on her Q leveling to the point where I don't see many builds that don't max that first. The passive also gives buffs to maxed W and E but I've always viewed these as nice-to-haves but don't impact my play enough to ever be prioritized over 15% bonus damage to champions.

The original intent of the design seems to be that you choose where to grow your power... but everyone always maxes Q. This is a missed opportunity, players should be given more enticing alternatives.

As a player who loves his purple bondage witch, I like the original idea of zoning with the threat of orbsplosions, but if you mix that with her ult damage + aftermath and its low CD, you're making an awesome champ on the level of the Darius / Fiora remakes. I can't see them staying that way for long without a lot of complaints or a lot of rebalancing.

What you're discussing sounds to me more like something that would be better fit as the maxed out passive for W.

i.e. You max-level W to lob an sphere into the midst of the enemy team. On impact, the orb appears especially volatile as it decays, and detonates on expiration. As nearby foes disperse to avoid the impending free damage, It reinforces Syndra's control motif as she watches her "playthings" run. The threat creates panic which enables her team's other skillshots to land more easily.

Mechanically, this is similar to Cass's ability to zone enemies from an area with her poison cloud, while also retaining an outrageous amount of burst damage. I only bring this up because when rebalancing a unit you usually look for comparative units with same but different play patterns. Cass is sustained burst with sustained zoning damage and Syndra is instant burst (Q / W shenanigans->E->R) with instantaneous zoning damage. I'd feel comfortable with the change since they would both still feel unique.

From a balance standpoint, making the detonation only trigger when W is used isolates the effect such that it doesn't alter the core behavior of landing Qs on one or more enemies and setting up an array of Qs for your E / R. My ideal Syndra would be one that is still powerful and bursty, but has some control over the nature of her power growth through her passive.

Nebuul10/23/2015, 10:26:43 AM2 votes

What about an alternate where her transcendent bonus was based on the order in which she maxed her non-ultimate abilities. I'll say Q1/Q2/Q3 meaning Q maxed first, second, or third.

Q1: 15% Damage to champions, Dark Spheres explode for 15% additional damage when they expire Q2: 15% Damage to champions Q3: 8% Damage to champions

W1: Slow duration increased to 3 seconds, Area of effect is doubled, units at the epicenter (original area) are slowed by 90% decaying to 45% over 1.5 seconds W2: Slow duration increased to 3 seconds W3: Slow duration increased to 2 seconds

E1: Area increased by 75%, Units hit by both the wave and a dark sphere are stunned for 2 seconds and take 50% increased damage E2: Area increased by 75% E3: Area increased by 50%

LankPants10/22/2015, 6:12:38 AM2 votes

I like it, I always thought it was weird how you summon a sphere of unstable matter and it sits there for a few seconds the disappears.

My idea would be something along the lines of whenever a new sphere is summoned other spheres that are already present pulse energy between themselves and the new sphere dealing damage in a line between them.

Ashenvall10/22/2015, 7:58:09 AM2 votes

Why not!

Lady Hammerlock10/22/2015, 9:42:39 AM2 votes

sounds cool but it probably would have to have a low base dmg/low cc

Rico Nasty10/22/2015, 12:33:28 PM2 votes

Add some cc. It would make her teamfighting so much better. Anything for a buff to her lategame.

Divewing10/22/2015, 2:16:07 PM2 votes

@Riot: Notice this thread pls senpai

Kitsuki0510/22/2015, 2:27:16 PM2 votes

I feel like her passive would be a lot more interesting if you actually had a choice as to what effect it made on all of your abilities. As it stands she's kind of just "your skill gets better when you max it" which never really felt satisfying to me. It doesn't even seem important which skill I max first for the passive effect, I just max the skill I want to be the most powerful.

7Artemis710/22/2015, 3:52:31 PM2 votes

YES. THE BUFF SYNDRA NEEDS.

Solidair310/23/2015, 1:18:10 PM2 votes

The proposed Q change was actually additional true damage as opposed to bonus magic damage as it has currently.

The main problem they have is not knowing ways to make her W and E passive bonuses better. W's is entirely forgettable and E's just isn't engaging

Stellafreyja1/26/2016, 10:36:31 PM2 votes

Meddler had stated in a thread that originally Syndra's maxed W would cause a knock-up upon landing. They removed it because they felt it didn't fit but also didn't like how easily you could chain it into her E to get a knock-up + stun combo. Just some interesting info for everyone.

If anything, they should make her passive like Scylla's from Smite. They have the exact same passive, but Scylla gains flat magic power (AP) for each maxed skill. Would be a pretty nice buff.

pouchonn10/23/2015, 1:05:53 AM1 votes

hnm...

Zarkkast1/28/2016, 9:24:47 PM1 votes

Make this happen, please rito.

Syndra and Cassiopeia were once my favourite champions.

I haven't played mid in a really long time, but I'd definitely play it again if these two were strong again.