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Let's talk Akali

Great Justice·9/12/2014, 3:42:00 AM·13 votes·2,404 views

My Summoner Name is Great Justice, I'm a Platinum 5 North American player,

I want to ask, how does Akali lack counterplay?

I'm by no means an Akali main, or Akali player. My only experience with Akali was a brief "Akali Only" phase to attempt the One-Trick-Pony route in SoloQ. While I did have relative success with Akali, I have to say I'm worried when I saw the Patch Forecast. Now, I've seen Akali played at the highest of ELO in NA and Korea. I've spent a decent amount of time watching Korean Akali mains, as well as North American Akali mains, and then attempted to emulate their play. I played Akali almost exclusively, and sky-rocketed to the ELO I currently sit at now. And from all this experience, I have to say.

AKALI IS NOT OVER-POWERED.

Does Akali have strengths? Yes, she has a stack mechanic and a reset mechanic on her gap closer. Does Akali have weaknesses? Yes, her laning phase is poppy level until lvl 6-7.

so, why is Riot looking into this champion? Are they looking to appease the trolls on GD and their daily "Akali is OP" threads? Is Akali secretly super op busted? Does this champ lack counterplay?

What's so unique about Akali that makes her need to be stomped out? Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION be able to kill a LONE, SQUISHY champion with reliability? Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION have some form of mobility or chase potential? Why is Akali special? Evelynn has a permanent stealth mechanic for ward evasion. Fizz has LOADS of mobility, allowing him to dodge with ease. Kassadin COULD cross the map in seconds. Katarina can deal ABSURD amounts of damage near INSTANTLY. Kha'zix has TEAM UTILITY in his evolved W, and strong dueling potential, with strong mobility and evasion. Leblanc has hard CC and great mobility. Master Yi can tear a high priority target in seconds and lose 0 kill potential. Nidalee has the most ABUSIVE laning phase, capable of tower diving for a kill at lvl 2. Nocturne can isolate targets using vision denial with a long range targetted dash and spell-sheild. Rengar has CC and stealth, with a conditional 0 cost and cooldown gap closer. Shaco has abusive ganks in the right hands. Talon has a silence on his blink, allowing him to fully combo with 0 counter-play from his target. Zed has such strong outplay potential it's unreal.

Akali CANNOT seige. Akali CANNOT counter-seige. Akali CANNOT dive through a proper frontline. Akali RELIES on un-coordinated play. Akali RELIES on creating picks on isolated targets. Akali RELIES on capitalizing on her teamate's initiation. Akali RELIES on a terrible laning phase. Akali RELIES on her opponents to NOT use stealth detection items. Akali is NOT a champ without counter-play, she's honestly the second-most "healthy" Assassin, right behind Zed.

If Riot STILL wants to weaken her assassination potential, put that strength into something else. Don't just Olaf her and then leave her to rot. Please Riot, I beg you, don't do this hastily. Take your time, and give us a WELL-ROUNDED, STRONG ASSASSIN WITH VISIBLE COUNTER-PLAY GIVE AKALI AN IDENTITY, A ROLE, AND A REASON TO BE PICKED, DON"T MAKE HER TARIC 2.0 p.s and for the love of god, don't force it onto the live client if you're getting an overwhelming amount of NEGATIVE FEEDBACK from the PBE testers (hi Sona)

Feel free to discuss/debate/argue with me on the topic, I'll be checking back on this thread whenever I can. Edit: My LoLKing, incase anyone wants to check my terrible Akali scores. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/33809893

28 Comments

YGW Caspie9/12/2014, 8:26:41 AM4 votes

TL;DR: What exactly does Akali have that is "low-counterplay?" Please Riot explain in detail.

While Jag is out, I think we're exploring lighter changes to give her more directionally-relevant strength while potentially giving her just a bit more opportunity for counterplay. - Riot Pwyff

What does this even mean?

That said, Akali's a tough gal to strike the right balance. Her effective all-in and reset mechanics are a very big part of her core identity, which gets really weird because that's pretty anti-counterplay. - Riot Pwyff

Now this sounds like the Kassadin statement, you know the whole Kassadin's identity is being able to jump around the map which makes it hard to nerf him effectively because nerfing him would affect his identity. In my opinion and clearly reinforced with the lack of pro play she sees; there is a lot of counter play to Akali, and I do mean A LOT. The times you do see her picked in pro play usually doesn't end well for the team with Akali even IF she was picked as a counter-pick. If you can't even pick Akali as a counter-pick in pro play and build team comps around her then clearly there is a lot of counter-play to this little assassin especially when you see other assassins do very well in this current meta.

I would appreciate if they gave some more insight with the statement "low-counterplay abilities" because as far as I'm concerned one thing Akali definitely has is counterplay. Am I an Akali fan? Yes, she's not my favorite champ but she's up there. She's really fun to play and even fun to play against. Can she snowball to a point of dear God why? Yes, but it's not easy to do because her laning phase isn't that great 1-5 and she has strong counterpicks, as well as itemization that can hurt her effectiveness by a ton and she doesn't really have an escape unless there is creeps nearby. Her shroud is countered by pinks, upgraded sweeper, Lulu, Lee Sin, even Janna can ult her out of shroud, etc.

I just played ranked 5s not long ago against an Akali and you know what happened? We got snowballed against and lost. Just kidding. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1537390726/32883270

They even had a fairly good team comp, and even though Akali got killed for FB we ended up doing a stupid dive and getting double killed by her + giving a kill to Tristana. Fortunately we didn't tilt off it and continued to play with our early game advantage but because of our team comp we knew we had to end fairly early or risk being outscaled and losing. Akali even got most of their kills but it doesn't matter when you peel properly and lock her down + reveal her when she shrouds. This is why I don't understand what they mean by "low-counterplay abilities". CC is low-counterplay because you can't do anything when it's applied unless you have cleanse or a cleansing item. Akali doesn't have CC at all, she has to focus who she marks because that's a huge part of her damage, and she can't shroud in teamfights without being revealed.

I remember another game of ranked 5s actually where she was on the enemy team and we were able to deal with her. I remember being Janna and ulting her out of her shroud once. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1533157923/0

And if you say oh but that's ranked 5s not solo Q, she can snowball out of control in solo Q then first... it's a team game not a solo game and eventually even the people in your solo Q game will learn how to deal with her even if they don't already know it just takes time for people to learn. Also she can just as easily be a hindrance to her team in solo Q because her laning phase 1-5 is so bad that the last time I had an Akali in ranked she went 0/5/0 at 15 mins and no we didn't win, and sure I've also had Akali's in ranked snowball out of control and be a huge factor in why we win but that's solo Q and that happens on many champions not just Akali, the problem in general is it's really hard to control snowballing when you're with 4 people you don't know and can't coordinate properly with.

ZXDYKioaMx9/12/2014, 9:41:10 AM3 votes

Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION be able to kill a LONE, SQUISHY champion with reliability? Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION have some form of mobility or chase potential?

Not really, an assassin is also a Lone, Squishy champion that doesn't grant them a free guaranteed win over all other lone squishies just because one is an assassin. It should still require skill and allow counter-play. And this is addressing "Assassins" in general not Akali specifically since she does have counter-play for sure.

An assassin should be able to destroy mid or low health bars with reliability not destroy any full health bar just because "assassin". They should have high mobility and large burst damage and some tricks to them. That way they can target low healthbars and blow them up.

Being an assassin should require you to choose your targets wisely and instantly shred them when they get to a low amount of health. It should NOT allow the player to choose any target at full health and all in them and allow them to solely rely on the fact that they are a "Squishy Assassin"and their target is a "Squishy Non-Assassin". And guarantee a win regardless of skill.

Agree - Akali does NOT need a nerf, not even close. Shes fine where she is

But there are a few assassins out there that could use a nerf, they seem more like Fake-Assassin with Assassin level damage and mobility yet they are given several layers of defense but everyone overlooks and allows the defenses to be just because the defenses are not specifically in health form. They just give the assassins layers of defense in the form of no cooldowns, shields, endless escapes, untargetability etc. And somehow everyone turns a blind eye.

Belisarius099/12/2014, 6:48:13 AM3 votes

I know she's not in the best place due to the binary nature of her stealth. I think I'd like to see a rework that could raise her skill ceiling someday. But in the meantime, I don't want to see number tweaking nerfs to her. I agree with you fully. If it's not a rework raising her skill ceiling, I'd rather they just leave her alone.

The Lexer9/12/2014, 11:21:39 PM3 votes

One of the most irritating thing on forums is how everybody says either Akali is op or Akali needs buff pre-6. I TOTALLY agree with this thread. Akali is a great champion right now, in terms of balance. If she were op, she'd be played in the LCS every game. If she sucked, she never would be played. But she isn't played every game and she has been peeked up 3 or 4 times. Akali is near perfect right now DO NOT touch her.

Treize099/13/2014, 6:58:24 AM3 votes

I'm assuming we are all in agreement that MrSc0tty is either brain dead or a brain dead troll and in both cases its not worth even acknowledging his posts anymore.

Great, glad to have that out of the way.

Now back on topic. I have an idea I mentioned in another thread. I'd like to see if I can get any feedback here. Pwyff alluded to reducing the armor/mr resistances on shroud in the patch forecast. I'm thinking they could increase the slow on the shroud as a tradeoff for the reduction of those resistances.

What do you guys think?

ObscureClockwork9/27/2014, 9:08:15 AM2 votes

Look, if you come seeking knowledge, you don't go this:

And from all this experience, I have to say.

AKALI IS NOT OVER-POWERED.

Does Akali have strengths? Yes, she has a stack mechanic and a reset mechanic on her gap closer. Does Akali have weaknesses? Yes, her laning phase is poppy level until lvl 6-7.

so, why is Riot looking into this champion? Are they looking to appease the trolls on GD and their daily "Akali is OP" threads?

And resort to the old arguments such as:

What's so unique about Akali that makes her need to be stomped out? Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION be able to kill a LONE, SQUISHY champion with reliability? **Shouldn't an Assassin BY DEFINITION have some form of mobility or chase potential? Why is Akali special?

Look, when you have a title that invites people to share knowledge, then you do all that, it makes people immediately feel the opposite. At that point, you don't look like you are looking for knowledge. If you want knowledge, you go "lets talk akali. What do you feel?" then put information about akali that doesn't look subjective.

Then you skip a few lines, and do the triple-spaced out asterisks, and then you give your opinions.
If you don't, you only seek to drive away, or piss off people who are against your side.

now on to me. I think akali lacks counterplay. Namely i cite these connections:

  • level 6 is when akali reaches a big power spike. Level 9 is when i can get pink ward trinket. It doesn't matter if she takes time to burst me, her CD's are lower, her stealth protects her from my early harass and targeted spells, and she sustains harder.
  • Citing counterpicks should not be in a serious discussion about champion health, especially when the counterpicks are said to be what "shuts her down". All this serves to show is how unhealthy the design is, given how binary the champion is.
  • Her weak point isn't actually that weak. Melee champions have to deal with a 100 - 150% uptime Q. Ranged have to deal with someone who has more burst, sustain, and scaling. *citing energy inefficiencies aren't exactly true level 6 and above, given that, 3 points in Q, 1 in W and 1 in E allows you to do 3 jumps with one W and one E combo being Q-R- AA -W-Q-R-AA-Q-R - E. 3 Q's = 180 energy cost, but returns 90. R has no cost W has 80 E has 60 Total of 230 cost, meaning that she only needs 3 seconds throughout the combo to do all that. Q's CD at this time is 5 seconds. She can pull off a whole combo with the amount of energy she has. *citing a weak lane phase isn't exactly fair. Her level 1-2 (sometimes 1-3) are unsafe. Post that, akali can hide, and unless you start with a pink ward (which would be a pretty big waste) and her jungler isn't helping her (which shouldn't happen plat and above) akali doesn't have much trouble pushing through the final bits. Furthermore, her lack of waveclear is an effective weakness (given how much E costs early, and its CD) but pushing the lane only serves to put you in danger, and akali can afford to lose the tower CS and still snowball/kill you.
  • The biggest quip, though, is how hard it is to pinpoint her damage and sustain unless you know what her skills do. The common comparison of 2Q's and 2R's looks normal for a burst mage, until you factor in her passives and how fast she can do that, and the fact that she hasn't even used E or her 3rd round. 2Q's + 2R's at level 6 = 200 + 1.0 + 340 + 1.8
  • another thing worth mentioning, is that assassins shouldn't be killing teams. They should be killing squshies, then leaving, waiting for cooldowns. Akali doesn't do that. She kills teams, due to her sustain, her relatively simple energy recovery mechanics, and her mobility. she is notoriously hard to peel as well. If as janna, you do not have enough tools to peel her off your adc, i think there is a problem. Every other assassin can be peeled off using janna (2 peeling abilities). Akali can laugh at that. 2 people fighting one assassin shouldn't lose, by your definition of "killing lone squshies"

Continued on reply

MrSc0tty9/12/2014, 2:32:34 PM2 votes

Simply put, there is little to no skill gap between a bad Akali and a good one.

You mash all the buttons and stealth when things go south. There you're a pro level Akali player-everything is targeted, everything is instant. From the instant Akali is in range to ult you to the instant she is out of energy there is nothing you can do to stop her killing you, no cooldown to exploit no way to burst her down thanks to her spellvamp/LS and she gets a Counterplay tool for herself if she ever gets caught.

420CountSalTea10/12/2014, 9:25:16 AM1 votes

I understand why people get frustrated playing against an akali she hides in the shroud when she needs to and pops up to farm with Q. As an akali player I do that all the time and yes the defense bonus is good for me because I focus on getting my damage up and only max the shroud when all other spells have been maxed thus i only get, what? 10? 20? mr and armor that aint much. and yes you get +30 or so late game (forgot exact numbers) defense. This was to make sure an akali player who has to go through the gates of hell can have some defense against aoe's or even some padding to for durability in team fights.

I was interested to have this speed buff when i gotta duck out and run when im surrounded, but what the hell is this?

1 second of 30% movement speed, come on man atleast 3 seconds.

Its not like i can place a ward and shadow dash there, lee sin can do that with a normal spell and nobody complains about that. And from what i hear lots of people in the lower elos bronze and silver are the main sources of complaint. Well i support majority rules but if the majority of people in bronze refuse to buy pink, haven't played against akali all that often or are just plain trolls then that is a problem.

Because with her defenses nerffed the gold and plat players who do buy wards just open fire on akali and she can't have an answer to that until level 6 and even then her escapes are limited to shroud, waiting for an enemy minion to come by, or flash where other champs have ridiculous mobility and even invulnerability in some reare cases (fizz and his pole, vlad pool for example) and nobody complains about that.

So i the end the boys in bronze who wont buy wards now can use aoe more effectively, and the men in gold and plat are screwed because her defenses were key in keeping her afloat in laning phase.

So pls re-peel the nerffs, she was just fine as she was. a 50/50 champ that could be made irrelevant and thats just a waste of a good champ.

Stars Shaper2/24/2015, 6:18:00 PM1 votes

The things you wrote are appliable on Akalis who think they can 1vs5 because they are Akali.

An Akali in a team will lay waste to an extent that there is no counterplay at all because you can't focus nor ignore her.

Earl Eulrich9/12/2014, 9:46:28 AM1 votes

It´s not about her being OP or UP...it´s about the complete lack of counterplay. Once she gets a lead she just jumps onto you from 800range away again and again and again...not much you can do against her. And her lvl 6/11 powerspikes are just incredible abusive, if someone is not really used to the matchup he will die 100% to you at lvl 6/7, not by getting outplayed - just by being bruteforced down.