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[LORE DISCUSSION] Are the Watchers Void-Beings?

ModCaptainMårvelous·8/28/2014, 11:33:22 PM·32 votes·8,302 views

PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS Who built the Mercury Hammer?

Welcome back to (what I hope to make) a weekly discussion thread on the nature of League lore and talking about some of the biggest mysteries among everyone. Last week's vote ended PRETTY close but since one of the two options had the lead for a longer period of time, I ended up going with it. So this week's discussion topic, as you can see from the title...

#Are the Watchers Void-beings?

http://i.imgur.com/92krH6B.png

So for backround: The Watchers are the omni-present bad guys of the Freljord. Several thousand years ago, the Watchers were thrown from the bridge into what is now the howling abyss. These creatures are implied to still be alive/active, with Lissandra being their seeker and the main person pulling the strings to get the watcher's will done. But the main question that seems to be thrown around is if the Watchers are actually beings from the void brought to Runeterra thousands of years ago. However, with that being said, let's dive right into the two sides of this argument:

http://i.imgur.com/LBbnjzY.jpg #The Case for the Void: "Bow to the Void or be consumed by it."

Perhaps the most damning evidence in favor of the void is that these are powerful creatures who are far beyond the scope of human strength. While there are certainly places in Runeterra where beings of immense power originate, nothing of the such seems to exist in the Freljord. These are not similar to Nasus or Renekton-beings (Or, as we saw recently, Azir) nor are these corrupted/malformed beings from dark places such as the Shadow Isles. In fact, we have no true idea where they come from, as in Lissandra's lore it is made abundantly clear that she went out of her way to wipe every trace of the Watchers as historical fact from the books and stories of the Freljord.

In addition, note that Lissandra was changed from a regular human into an Iceborn, a being with immense power and magical ability. Hm. A normal human turned into a being of incredible power by drawing strength from a power beyond him or herself. Sound familiar? Yes, if the Watchers are indeed void-beings, Kassadin and Mazlahar are some sort of distant cousins to Lissandra as they too have been touched by the void and given these powers. Finally, the greatest thing to note about the Watchers is that they stand the test of time, although it's more implied than factual.

Note Lissandra's lore: For centuries she's existed, biding her time as the Watcher's seeker and doing their bidding despite being thrown into the abyss. That means these beings are next-to-immortal and quite powerful in their own right. The fact that they have survived time, danger and are still manipulating the scenes even to this day is testament that they are certainly inhuman, if not directly from the void itself.

http://i.imgur.com/PRSzYb8.jpg #The Case for the Freljord: "The Watchers will return..."

I'd say the biggest mark for the Freljord is that the way the Watchers worked during their rule is a direct contradiction to the modus operandi of the void. Whereas the Watchers seemed content with the subjugation of those in the Freljord and were happy with humans being subservient to them? The Void, however, is much less about "subjugation" and a lot more on the page of "Annihilation". Everyone from the void (save Kassadin) is about the utter destruction of Runeterra. Even Void-beings based on research (Vel'koz) don't save subjects, they blow them to bits. This is a huge problem when trying to say that the void is part of the Watchers, as it's a clear contradiction to what has been happening.

Along with this, the Watchers were eventually overtaken by the humans through sheer brute force. As such, we ended up discovering that the Watchers were indeed able to be defeated. While this -can- happen with void creatures, it seems very unlikely that ancient humans/frostborn would be able to defeat these void creatures that are currently roaming. More importantly, they went sailing into the abyss and haven't been heard from since. It is certainly odd that even with all their power, nobody has seen or heard of the Watchers ever since. Had they been void, it seems like they could easily open a portal and reemerge.

Finally, the main magical component of the Watchers is true ice...so why is that important? For one thing, True Ice stems directly from the Watchers, seeming to be an extension of their power over ice and frost. Now compare that to the void beings with magical powers. Kassadin, Malzahar and Vel'koz's magical prowess seems to be manipulation of void energy and tearing rifts in reality to bring forth the void...but if that is the case, why doesn't Lissandra possess these skills? Why does her power stand firmly rooted in ice while fellow "Void beings" can tear reality rifts and holes? It makes a huge problem for those who say that there is something related to the void here.

http://i.imgur.com/2MvaPJR.png #My Personal Theory Please keep in mind that this is my own personal hypothesis on the matter and in no way reflects the truth or canon lore of League.

This is a matter I'm not really sure of, as there isn't enough proof for either side to make a more-than-likely claim to their ownership. However, based on both sides and the little I could find on it, here is my personal theory:

**1.) **The Watchers are NOT void beings. They do not seem to have the drive for destruction, the reality-tearing magic nor the sheer monstrous power that those from the void seem to have.

**2.) **However, I DO believe that the Watchers were in some way visited by the Void or have some manner of ties to it. Take a look at Gnar's initial reveal for an example. Specifically, the second section/middle. Notice the single eye, tentacles and lightning bolts flying off of the creature. Looks a lot like Vel'koz, doesn't it? Now compare it to the Watcher's icon at the top, as well as the statue near the top of the page. Again, looks very similar to Vel'koz does it not?

**3.) **My personal history theory is as follows: Vel'koz visited the Watchers and either taught them the magic of true ice or hinted at it's powers, giving them an edge over the regular humans and turning them into these horrifying titans of frost. Content with his work, Vel'koz left and studied the Freljord from afar, watching them and seeing what became of his experiments.

In this canon-idea, the Watchers clearly are not the main threat to runeterra nor are they the main villain. Instead, they're a side faction that has spawned from the Void's interference with Runeterra and, as such, bring a problematic puzzle to solve. For when the Void invasion goes into full swing, will the Watchers (if they return in force) side with the void or will they consider themselves independent from those that gave them power.

With that in mind, let's share everyone's personal takes: Do you think that the Watchers are clearly void-beings who decided they liked colder climates? Do you prefer to imagine the Watchers as their own little beings? Maybe you have some shocking theory that will blow the lid off this whole conspiracy and change the Freljord forever? Remember: No wrong answers!

And, as before, vote for next week's lore topic for discussion!

31 Comments

Omnipherious8/29/2014, 2:56:41 AM7 votes

I believe the Void and the Watchers are separate. As brought up in the OP, their fundamental principles differ - the Void consumes, the Watchers conquer. Are they related in some way? I think it would be silly to think they aren't. However, whether or not their goals align are debatable.

Void Theory The Void are creatures comparable to the Zerg or ants in real life. They have a single leader capable of psychic links (I'll refer to it as the Prime) and each of the lesser creatures are part of a class with specific tasks. They consume life energy/souls to live and do this multiple ways (Malz sacrificing people works). The Void's creatures and resources have been completely consumed by them so they create inter-dimensional rifts in search of new sources.

Cho'gath is part of a leader class, highly intelligent without need for much direction. Some quotes suggest mild psychic powers of sensing (ex1, ex2, ex3) which fits the leader class role of detection threats/targets and directing lesser creatures. Leads at the front and consumes lesser enemies to increase his own threat.

Kog'Maw is a hatchling part of the defender class, consumes scraps to form bio-ammo for artillery. Arguably the most simple of the Void creatures we have, fully subservient to directions of the Prime and other leader figures. Stays close to leaders, eating scraps along the way.

Kha'zix is part of a warrior class, intended to find and consume deadly creatures to improve the Void's strength without impeding progress. Not subservient to leader classes, only to the Prime. During war, goal is to eliminate high threat targets and enable the Void to adapt to any opposition. His kit and quotes exemplify this.

Vel'koz is part of the scout class, seeks to deconstruct anything for information and resources. Quite possibly a physical extension or detachment from the Prime itself.

Watcher Theory I believe the Watchers are the dominant, intelligent lifeforms of another world; a race focused on the improvement of their empire via expansion of territory and influence using their mastery of magic. Opposed to the Void which consume and adapt, the Watcher's approach is more to assimilate and enslave.

How do they relate to the Void? (1) Maybe they are from a different part of the Void (2) Maybe their world was the Void before it was consumed and the survivors came here (3) Maybe they're travellers and have encountered the Prime or Voidborn before In any case, they are separate entity. I think this can be easily proven by the nature of magic used and their general approach to this world. They arrived, picked a race with potential and assimilated them; in this case humans. As part of the assimilation, leaders were given power and the people strengthened; the result was the Iceborn.

The Watchers desire domination and power over destruction, they corrupt not to destroy but to take over. Given that, it is likely they didn't take too kindly to the HA betrayal and are planning to eliminate opposition in one fell swoop upon their return. The nature of Freljord is perfect for this since the people are divided and the climate provides camouflage.

Why do they want this world? Hard to say. They might be expanding to combat the Void. If the two sides were to meet, I highly doubt they would work together. Perhaps they are already at war and have reached a stalemate. Expanding the battlefield may have been their only option.

Miscellaneous I think the Void is changing it's strategy. Malzahar is an outlier, he should be dead instead of serving the Void. Kassadin's daughter wasn't killed, she was sent to the Void. She might be the cornerstone of the Void invasion. As for Gnar, I think the Yordles back then were deemed unfit for assimilation and couldn't be corrupted. This made them enemies.

ShadowKnight12248/29/2014, 3:58:12 PM5 votes

I side with the idea that the Watchers are completely different from the Void. My theory is similar to ancient Greek myth, that the Watchers are the equivalent of the Titans. Powerful but not undefeatable, and able to grant power to their followers. I would posit that the three sisters (Avarosa, Lissandra and Serylda) are the equivalent of demigods in the old myth: humans elevated to immortality and granted power beyond their normal reach.

I feel that a crucial mistake Riot made was the association between Watchers and eyes, and then releasing Vel'koz. I feel that's something that happens when you have different teams working in different things: they forget minor details that the community later latches onto. This tiny detail has generated a wealth of confusion where there used to be none.

Gnar's lore, if we ignore Vel'Koz, is quite simple: in the times of the Watchers, Gnar's family, for some reason, drew the ire of the Watchers and he was encased in true ice (and his family presumably killed). Why did this happen? Well, it's all speculation, but I want to throw out there the idea that Gnar was the only (or one of the scant few) pre-historic yordles with the ability to shapechange. Perhaps it was a genetic anomaly, a curse, a disease or a potion, who knows. What I think is that Gnar was the ancient equivalent of a lycanthrope, and the Watchers intervened in order to contain him. Perhaps to study him? Perhaps to turn him into their weapon? Perhaps because they weren't sure if he could be killed? We will never know, of course, as whatever plans the Watchers had for Gnar ended when they were overthrown by Avarosa and Serylda.

Anyway, that's my theory. I think the Watchers have nothing to do whatsoever with the Void, and it's only the release of Vel'koz and the Watcher's association with eyes that has caused this kerfuffle in the first place.

The Red Warden8/29/2014, 12:47:23 AM3 votes

Actually gnar's lore is based off a Native American legend

Edit: could someone please give me the link to that legend

Willahelm Fulber8/29/2014, 1:15:08 AM3 votes

I feel like the Battle of the Howling Abyss needs some coverage, as I've come up with an interesting personal theory about it, but seeing as I don't want to depose the primary direction of the discussion, I won't discuss it here.

Instead, I'll leave you with my belief that the Watchers are self-empowering, the only reason that Freljord hasn't been linked to magical power is because the Watchers are the source, and they are lost right now, supposedly into the Abyss.

SecretAgentHulk8/29/2014, 6:27:59 AM3 votes

So I'm no loremaster but I'd love to get opinions on my thoughts. I have two different ideas I haven't seen elsewhere.

Idea 1: We don't know the history of the Void. I think it's possible that the Watchers are some kind of pre-catastrophic Void being, and that this catastrophe fundamentally altered the Void, rendering its inhabitants warmer (AFAIK), less organized, and more inclined to destruction. They might even be the Prime that Omnipherious posits, and their loss was the event that plunged the Void into chaos. I think the similarities between Vel'Koz and the Watchers, and the others noted by Icarax88, point to this.

Idea 2: There are multiple races of powerful alter-dimensional beings. In this view, the similarities between Void and Watchers can perhaps be explained by all three races being divergent evolutions of a common race, as all three wield similar power of roughly equal magnitude. In this taxonomy:

  1. The Void have the power to manipulate energies. While some of the champions associated with the Void (Kog'Maw, Kha'Zix) are relatively normal in terms of power wielded, Malzahar, Kassadin, and Vel'Koz all wield powers that clearly relate to energy. Cho'Gath's abilities could also be seen as energy-related; his passive (and ult?) absorbs the life force of his dead foes, while his spikes (Q/E) and scream (W) could be seen as shockwave-induced.

  2. The Fae have the power to manipulate accidens, the external properties of a thing. They are thus relatively powerless to actually change things, and are not often seen in the history of Valoran or the League of Legends. They are also the most in harmony with Valoran as-is, so they are the only race/faction that still lives peacefully there.

  3. The Watchers have the ability to manipulate matter. This explains why true ice is such a big deal for them and the Freljord; they had to work with the material they found, and it is likely that had they chosen another clime, they would have adapted its makeup to their desires instead. This also explains why they preferred subjugation to destruction—they needed slaves to work for them, whereas beings of infinite energy can simply energize matter (ala Malzahar? where does the Void get an infinite supply of Voidlings?) to create their slaves.

Noctis Lunaris8/29/2014, 12:02:20 AM2 votes

Maybe the Watchers are akin to the Frost Giants of Norse Myth (Albeit, less giant and more frost).

Statues that depict The Watchers show them to be large, human-shaped figures, all lined up nicely across the bridge. Something else to note is how Voidborn are all inhuman figures, be it floating eyeball or a giant mantis. Unless there exists something like "Greater Voidborn" who have human-like figures, and the ones we currently know are "Lesser Voidborn", I think we can safely exclude the Void from being related to the watchers.

Kanvell8/29/2014, 12:21:22 AM2 votes

I love this lore series :D

LethalNarwhal8/29/2014, 12:39:02 AM2 votes

I thought the person that killed Yasuo's master was already hinted towards Riven?

Voidzilla8/29/2014, 2:08:04 AM2 votes

Interesting and well-thought out theories. The Watchers being related or spawned from the Void, rather then being Voidborn themselves, is something I've never thought of myself with my theorycrafying.

That being said, I'm a little surprised how you didn't mention some other things like how the general Freljord symbol looks a lot like Kassadin now, how another name for the Void is the Abyss compared to the Howling Abyss, or even (on a somewhat joking basis) that when the Poros eat they grow exponentially larger - similar to a certain Terror of the Void.

Also, you mention that the Watchers differ in their goals from the Void in that it's subjugation versus annihilation respectively. However, we don't actually know a whole lot about the Void, so what does consumption to them actually entail? We are able to gather that the Void is a much darker than Runeterra, and perhaps even colder. Perhaps Void consumption can result in an ice age, where the element itself is corrupted into something like the dark frost Lissandra uses.

The Void is my favorite "faction" in this game, and of the Freljord tribes I sided with the Frostguard, so I always enjoy speculation like this. Keep up the good work.

Leona is Waifu8/29/2014, 5:14:58 AM2 votes

I'm not real interested in the Freljord (mainly because of my dislike of it becoming the main focus of the lore team) but I don't believe that the Watchers are void beings, mainly because (as you mentioned) Lissandra not having Void powers.

Wezz8/29/2014, 6:49:10 AM1 votes

I felt they were some otherworldly beings Ala Void and Nasus and Renektons's group, people that came to Runeterra by mistake or was summoned by something

Great analysis though.

The Poon Wizard8/29/2014, 1:43:53 AM1 votes

The part of the lore where the watchers are tossed into the abyss yet still retain a 'servant' to do their bidding (Lissandra) is definitely a parallel in my mind to Kronos in Greek mythology. Although most have heard the story, for those who don't, Kronos, a immortal giant, ate his own children due to a prophecy that they would destroy him. His children broke free and chopped him into little bits and tossed him into an abyss, yet his power and immortality remained. In the book series Percy Jackson, Kronos acts as the main antagonist through demigod servants he holds power over in the human world. I believe Lissandra is a demigod, and the Watchers (spiteful) gods of the Freljord, who were overthrown by their 'children' or subjects, meaning they hold no ties to the void. Another theory in my mind would be that there are different gods of the different territories of Runeterra. Such as, Watchers over Freljord, Vel'koz over the void, Azir (or aren't Nasus and Renekton gods?) over Shurima...

DwarvenGiant8/29/2014, 6:29:32 PM1 votes

I have some assumptions and theories about this one: (NOTE: I'll refer Vel'Koz's race as "tentacled Voidlings", just for the sake of explaining my theories, that are all connected and are part of the same big theory of mine, in which I assume that Vel'Koz DOES have a connection to the Watchers)

  • I think that the Watchers are actually, if they are related to Vel'Koz in any way, are an organization and not really a whole race, but just a part of Vel'Koz's Voidling race.

  • Maybe it has became a thing with that race that each of the tentacled Voidlings decides whether it wants to join the Watchers or not, and Vel'Koz probably wasn't born to Freljord's Watchers tentacled Voidlings but instead, in the Void, to the Void's tentacled Voidlings, and he decided not to join the Watchers.

  • He doesn't seem like the guy that would help the Watchers anyways, cause he has his own business to do and to melt faces in order to research and get more information.

  • He seems like the "loner" type. He seems like he only goes on solo missions mostly.

  • As it was said in Vel'Koz's Q&A, he also has some opinions about the other Voidlings (not tentacled) champions (Chogath KogMaw Khazix ) which he'd keep to himself about how primitive they are with the whole "eating" thing.

  • He doesn't seems to like or appreciate the idea of joining with the Watchers in the Freljord, to give humans power, only to get worshiped by mere humans (the Frostguard, or any other Iceborn) or to puppet them.

  • He doesn't look like the guy who would stand for the Void that much either, if there was a war or something, as his mission is to gain information.

Necrolegion899/6/2014, 7:00:08 PM1 votes

I somehow doubt the Watchers and the Void are related. The void seems to be a manifestation drawn to Runeterra's magical resource. The void-born and void affiliated members have powers that imply space travel.

My theory, although not really implied by the lore, involves the void creators detecting magical power in Runeterra. Once they detected it they began to create a portal to Runeterra. Perhaps their world or civilization was nearly wiped out due to the scarcity of rune magic. They may have depleted their world's magical resource so they created the void as a means to travel to and harvest magical resources from far away planets. The ones trapped in the void (the denizens of this ancient race) mutated and evolved to live within the void. Their exposure to the void and magic perhaps gave them the hunger they have. Maybe they went on for who knows how many years without using magic that their bodies began to evolve in order to extract magical energy from other things. Cho'Gath is able to completely consume his victims and grow larger, maybe this is how his body changed and evolved to be able to extract magical energy from other beings.

I feel as though the void has already wiped out other planets and that the current void creatures and ambassadors are just the tip of the iceberg....

Now onto the Watchers! My theory for the watchers is similar to that of the void. The Watchers are beings of immense magical power. They may have existed before or in the beginnings of Runeterra. I feel as though they were somehow the first beings to be able to utilize magic and their long exposure to magic has turned them into demi-gods. They have perfected the use of magic to a point where they don't really see war as a viable option to gaining control of magic resource. Perhaps they were much more clever than we thought. They have already seen what magic and wars over magic has done to Runeterra and perhaps they tried to avoid war with the Freljord because they did not want their precious resource wasted in destroying their homeworld. Now they use Lissandra and maybe other agents to study the current nations of power and seek a way to destroy them without going into war with them and conserve their magical resources.

Its similar to our times, almost every powerful nation has nuclear weapons which we could use to destroy any opposing nation we want. Maybe one nation has a resource we want, but we would hesitate to just nuke that nation and take their resource because then it would make harvesting that resource pretty much impossible due to radiation. So then how do we take said resource? Well perhaps using political propaganda, pulling strings behind the scenes, declaring war with that nation without using nuclear weapons, win the war and place a puppet in charge. Then harvest your resource as much as you want without making your newly owned land uninhabitable.

The Watchers may be the same! They see rune magic as a special resource which they want, but they don't want the owners of that rune magic to use that magic and destroy your land. You want to plot, pull strings and cause political instability. Then when the time is right do something drastic where one of your puppets (Lissandra) is seen as a hero and placed in charge.

This may even tie to Shurima. The Watchers saw their use of magic as wrong or wasteful and they could not bear the Ascended continue to do this so they laid waste to their empire by causing an insurrection with Renekton and Xerath.

Mistress Madoka9/6/2014, 8:11:12 PM1 votes

Riven Killed Yasuo's Master

DEN TEL0S10/20/2014, 1:41:20 PM1 votes

I like to think that the watcher had nothing to do with the void, but when they were thrown into the abyss, they were actually thrown into the void. And after being thrown into the void they would become void like creatures unless they are extremely powerful and resist.

Zan Vorez12/6/2014, 10:31:10 AM1 votes

Is it not possible that Vel'Koz and the rest of the 'Koz' race are the tainted, infested, or corrupted versions of what the Watchers once were? Perhaps when they were thrown into the Abyss (the Void?), they were Ice Elemental creatures... but their extended time in the void has shifted their powers to be less frosty and more void-y?