Champion Ability Tradeoffs

Daemonator·Apr 22, 2014·1 votes·4,020 views

Is there a formula or something that riot uses to determine the cost, range, cooldown, and damage of the abilities are?

20 Comments

RiotMeddlerApr 23, 20144 votes

The idea of a power budget, where champions have the same amount of ability to influence the game, is a useful one when considering the design of a champion (or other game element). It's not something that's formally plotted out using numbers or a formula though. Trying to assign a numeric value to hard to compare effects is much more likely to mislead than help (e.g. how many points of power do you assign to a vision reduction effect, as opposed to a 25 unit range increase? Easy to estimate some numbers, extremely hard to have a sufficient level of confidence in them).

Discussion of power budget instead focuses on intended areas of strength and weakness (e.g. Braum has strong defensive windows, but brings less kill power than harder engage supports like Leona). Once that conceptual framework has been established it gets tested and, once validated, numbers then get tested and balanced. For the exact numbers other abilities can be useful reference points (e.g. X damage is a good starting point for a point and click nuke, Y range is appropriate if you want X sort of playstyle).

HellioningApr 23, 20142 votes

How much is mobility measured? Because I'm not really sure if Riot's doing a good job of properly balancing less mobile champions, especially mid lane. Sure, I could do lots of damage with Anivia, or I could play Ahri, do decent enough damage, and have a bunch of mobility. I guess I could burst someone down with Brand, or I could be Zed, and have an equal amount of bursting power but also has his shadow dashing.

Joren UniekApr 24, 20141 votes

All I know is mobility is hugely undervalued by both players and designers.

DaemonatorApr 23, 20141 votes

So, if I am not mistaken, that is why hard CC abilities such as Morgana's Dark Binding will cost more(50~90) or have a longer cooldown(11 seconds) when compared to soft CC abilities such as Talons Cutthroat which is on a 10 second cooldown.

Based on what you told me her E should be on a much longer cooldown or at least cost much more mana in the early levels than it does. I mean I love playing Sejuani but this has been bugging me for a while now. When I look at Permafrost and compare it to both Wither and The Box I notice that all three have the same concept to them:

Slow and don't let the opponent get away.

Though they are similar I can't help but notice that Sejuani's appears to be much more efficient than the other two. If you desire, I can get into further detail about this as well.

RiotMeddlerApr 23, 20144 votes

More powerful abilities will usually have higher trade offs certainly. In Dark Binding's case one of the biggest trade offs for the power of the root is the missile speed for example - at 1200 units/second it's slower than most missiles in the game. Overall though we're much more focused on how champions as a whole compare, not individual abilities. Having mobility or reliable hard CC elsewhere on the kit for example has substantial implications for what sort of functionality can be attached to a specific ability.

Looking at the Sejuani E example you discuss yup, Permafrost's potentially a very powerful spell and has a low cost. On the other hand it's also got a lower application range than Wither and doesn't slow attack speed. Sejuani also doesn't have the inherent sustain, or late game single target damage, that Nasus can bring. She also plays a different role to Nasus (initiator tank versus heavy fighter) and so needs to have different strengths and weaknesses.

ICantNameMeApr 23, 20142 votes

In Dark Binding's case one of the biggest trade offs for the power of the root is the missile speed for example - at 1200 units/second it's slower than most missiles in the game.

It might be slower, but it also has double the hitbox width of any other skillshot in the game. Seriously, please take a look at what you can do to make Morgana a more interactive champion.

DaemonatorApr 23, 20141 votes

Or perhaps its not the hit box that needs to be smaller rather than you need to sidestep more. I don't claim to be a pro but I will say that I have sidestepped a few Dark Bindings. Its hard but not impossible. I personally am more concerned about how it's the only 3 second CC left in the game. Then again that might be another trade off.

Nameless VoiceApr 24, 20141 votes

It's not very intuitive that players need to dodge "too far" for this specific projectile compared to others. That's a random burden of extra knowledge that you need for this matchup - a problem that could easily be fixed by adjusting the particle effect to closer match the actual size of the projectile.

ICantNameMeApr 24, 20142 votes

It's not very intuitive that players need to dodge "too far" for this specific projectile compared to others.

cough cough nidalee javelin

Nameless VoiceMay 3, 20141 votes

To be honest, a lot of skillshots are wider than they look, but I think Dark Binding is one of the worst offenders.

RiotMeddlerApr 23, 20143 votes

Dark Binding's 90 units wide. For context Mystic Shot's 60, and one of the narrowest skillshots out there. Ezreal's ult on the other hand is 160 and one of the widest.

I certainly agree there are a couple of ways Morg discourages interaction (easy W farming and Black Shield versus some laners/junglers), Dark Binding's missile however isn't one of those to me though.

Fomorian27Apr 24, 20142 votes

I think what he might have meant is that it's got one of the most deceptive hitboxes, since the particles don't really match the hitbox that well.

RisotadazoApr 24, 20142 votes

Exactly. It's very telling how massive the dark binding particle is for blackthorn/ghostbride morgana compared to the default skin. They don't even look like the same ability!

Counterplay is about being able to react and make decisions, but in Dark Binding's case, the visual is deceptive enough that the player may make the wrong decision because they assumed they were clear of it's path unaware of the missile's true width.

Nameless VoiceApr 24, 20141 votes

One of the most frustrating things about playing against Morgana Morgana is dodging a Dark Binding, only to be hit by it anyway because its hitbox is so much wider than it looks. Especially when you could have easily dodged farther but you thought you were safe where you were standing.

Would it be possible to update those default particles so that they are wider and more closely match the missile width?

DaemonatorApr 23, 20141 votes

With being more concerned about the whole kit rather than portions of it; is that how you determine what classifications of each champion is or is that an entirely different matter all together?

RiotMeddlerApr 23, 20141 votes

Setting out initial goals for a champion's gameplay (strategic niche, new experiences they'll bring, strengths and weaknesses etc) is one of the things we focus on most during their early development. After that it's a case of regularly comparing how the champion's progressing to those goals and either adjusting the champion to ensure we meet them or, if more appropriate, redefining our goals if we hit on something better than our original ideas/if our original ideas prove to be flawed.

DaemonatorApr 24, 20141 votes

Is this also why certain champions get cancelled? Either they don't bring anything new or they don't fit into a niche?

Sir ArmaMalumApr 22, 20141 votes

There are numerous mentionings of the 'power budget' used to create a champion. I feel it's more of a guesstimate based on game designer experience and play-testing but I could be wrong.