When is @Riot going to start encouraging players to graduate college BEFORE entering the LCS?

Makneto·Oct 22, 2015·3 votes·1,892 views

I have seen several videos promoted by Riot(I'm on my phone but I'll get links later) which feature players saying things like "I'm gonna play in the LCS as long as I can, college can wait for me".

WTF?

Why does Riot advocate that players join the LCS before achieving critical milestones in their life? One of the biggest stars in the game, Bjergson, is frequently quoted talking about how he dropped out of high school.

What is Riot's opinion on an ideal career path for an LCS player? Do they want the kid right out of high school? Are college graduates considered too old? Or maybe an LCS player doesn't have the income to afford the debt assumed after higher education? I understand that player selection may fall on the individual organizations. But what guidance does Riot give?

It really pains me to see LCS players barely able to string a coherent sentence together in an interview because they have spent every waking moment playing this video game since the left high school, and possibly even before then.

Like honestly, just thinking about Dyrus. After leaving the LCS he's back to square 1. He can try to find a place in the Riot machine(but I bet Riot requires a degree for most positions), or he can stream, or he can try his hand in the regular employment market(with al the valuable skills and a sweet reference letter from Reginald).

Not trying to hate on Dyrus I love the guy. But I feel like these players end up in a bad spot after completion of their LCS career.

I would love to hear from someone at Riot! Is there anybody inside the company that is focused on career development for the players?

31 Comments

DrCyanideOct 22, 20151 votes

See, every video I've run into basically says "I'm taking classes now while also being in the LCS". Granted, I haven't seen many videos, but those are two very opposite things.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

See, every video I've run into basically says "I'm taking classes now while also being in the LCS". Granted, I haven't seen many videos, but those are two very opposite things.

I'll have to find links later but personally I've never heard an LCS player say they were taking classes. That is a good thing and I'm sure a few of them do.

But at the same time when people retire they almost invariably don't know what to do next, whether they will stay involved with League or go to school for something else.

ThePartyLeaderOct 22, 20151 votes

Yah stop letting adults make choices riot.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yah stop letting adults make choices riot.

All professional sports advocate that people graduate college before becoming a pro athlete. Because at the end of the day it's not a reliable career. Also, college years are important for your own personal development. The only people that want to skip the college step are the superstars that don't want to risk serious injury for nothing in the NCAA.

ThePartyLeaderOct 22, 20151 votes

I just don't see why it matters to anyone but the players. I could be wrong but my understanding is the career of pro gamer is much shorter than most athletes. Forcing them into college cuts out over half of there career time. And there isn't a real reason they can't go after at the ripe old age of 25 when there career is done.

I compare this to when people suggest that riot implement something that makes it so players can't play 16 hours a day because it's unhealthy. I just don't see why it is anyone's business but the players. It is there choices.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just don't see why it matters to anyone but the players. I could be wrong but my understanding is the career of pro gamer is much shorter than most athletes. Forcing them into college cuts out over half of there career time. And there isn't a real reason they can't go after at the ripe old age of 25 when there career is done.

I compare this to when people suggest that riot implement something that makes it so players can't play 16 hours a day because it's unhealthy. I just don't see why it is anyone's business but the players. It is there choices.

It is unhealthy. And the competitive mindset in any competitor can drive them to make unhealthy choices.

Before Labor Unions were around the average person worked like 60-70 hours a week and for crap money. But because there were no labor laws companies would hire whoever would work the most hours for the least money. Now 40 hours/week is standard full time for a skilled employee.

Since people obviously need money it created an environment where people were forced to live shit lives just to be competitive in the workforce.

Reasonable restrictions on labor help create an employee's market as opposed to an employer's market.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 22, 20151 votes

Hah HAH HAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

THE NBA DOESN'T GIVE TWO SHITS ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE GRADUATION! Have you seen the number of one-and-dones that go through one year to go straight to pros? Hell, even the NFL has had pushes to let sophomores go into the NFL like Johnny Manziel and (upcoming) Leonard Fournette. And those are just the sports I'm familiar with. These players know, just like Calitrlolz and possibly others, that you can go to college afterward. Many of these people would rather take the big money high-up rookies get, and then leave after their 5-10 years of playing, to start going back to college. If you had money to go to college before, then that money is still there, and you can add to that with your playing money.

Actually, that Calitrlolz example is exactly what I mean. Go look up some stuff about his history to find out what I mean.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hah HAH HAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

THE NBA DOESN'T GIVE TWO SHITS ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE GRADUATION! Have you seen the number of one-and-dones that go through one year to go straight to pros? Hell, even the NFL has had pushes to let sophomores go into the NFL like Johnny Manziel and (upcoming) Leonard Fournette. And those are just the sports I'm familiar with. These players know, just like Calitrlolz and possibly others, that you can go to college afterward. Many of these people would rather take the big money high-up rookies get, and then leave after their 5-10 years of playing, to start going back to college. If you had money to go to college before, then that money is still there, and you can add to that with your playing money.

Actually, that Calitrlolz example is exactly what I mean. Go look up some stuff about his history to find out what I mean.

That is only because the risk of injury in college sports is not worth it for someone that's going to jump right into a multi-million dollar contract, like I said. But someone that's going to be a 4th string $50k a year player should be making different choices.

LCS does not set anybody up for success after one contract lol

TurquoiseYoshiOct 22, 20151 votes

Okay, well how about the other point? That people (like Calitrlolz) can play for a while, and then leave to go to college. My point is, if you had the opportunity to go to college before the LCS (like you imply), then you can also go after the LCS. Would you rather have these people miss a big chance for lots of awesome stuff just because you want them to go through college first?

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Okay, well how about the other point? That people (like Calitrlolz) can play for a while, and then leave to go to college. My point is, if you had the opportunity to go to college before the LCS (like you imply), then you can also go after the LCS. Would you rather have these people miss a big chance for lots of awesome stuff just because you want them to go through college first?

First, education is absolutely more important. So to create an environment that encourages people to 'do it later' is dangerous. Why not the other way around and do the LCS later?

Second, going back to school after 2-3 or more years of playing a video game all day every day is not going to be easy. Not to mention it will be a nonstandard experience since the former LCS player will be older than his classmates. Doesn't mean that much...

Third, and possibly most importantly isn't just about what happens to current LCS players after they finish, but what happens to current high school students that strive to be in the LCS. Right now any team recruitment is done from challenger, that's how you get exposure to the players in the LCS and that's how you prove you are a decent player. So what should I high school senior do that wants to play in the LCS? Getting into challenger is practically a full time job. Should someone graduate high school and then train for a year on their own in the hopes of joining an LCS team? While keeping college on the back burner? Is that the ideal vision of how someone should become and LCS pro? Because right now it seems to me that riot encourages people to skip college to come play LCS...and since these are developmental years for people, I would hope Riot has some sort of career development advice for these kids.

Because like I said, almost ever pro that has left the scene has said they really don't know what to do next...

EDIT: And tbh I'm not really familiar with calitrolz personal story.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 22, 20151 votes

So the NBA and NFL are smart business decisions, but the LCS is dangerous. Okay cool.

There are adults who go back to high school after dropping out. I don't think that college has that bad of an age group.

And you pretend that NBA and NFL players don't do that? College recruiting is so prevalent that, in some areas, kids are recruited earlier than high school. Do you think these kids care about school more than keeping their grade a passing one? I mean, if you look at 99% of college athletes at any specific school, they're all using the same major. That's because it's the simplest major. Hell, there was a scandal at Georgia a few years ago about one course, Coaching Principles and Strategies of Basketball, where the final exam had questions like "How many goals are on a basketball court?", "How many halves are in a college basketball game?", and more. Needless to say, everyone got an A, and the assistant coach that taught the course, as well as his father, the head coach, were fired. The players took a course like that, knowing that it would be easy and allow them to play more basketball. Could you really try less than that?

And of course they don't know what to do next. Just like how NFL players don't know what to do next after a 15 year career. Like how people in the military don't know what to do next after retiring. Like how college students don't know what to do next after graduation. After such an important piece of your life changes, there are bound to be questions on what to do next.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So the NBA and NFL are smart business decisions, but the LCS is dangerous. Okay cool.

The NBA and the NFL are CAREERS and top players will be set for life even after one contract. So it is generally OK for them to skip their college years because they don't get anything out of the NCAA except risk of injury, and they are jumping right into a multi-million dollar pro contract. I'm honestly not sure what LCS players make w/o endorsements or prize money but I am willing to bet Dyrus is not set for life, and he has had the longest LCS career so far.

And of course they don't know what to do next. Just like how NFL players don't know what to do next after a 15 year career. Like how people in the military don't know what to do next after retiring. Like how college students don't know what to do next after graduation. After such an important piece of your life changes, there are bound to be questions on what to do next.

NFL players don't have to do anything after a 15 year career.

The military actively tries to help their people prepare themselves with skills that are valuable on the civilian side.

A college graduate may not know exactly what s/he wants to do upon graduation, but at least s/he has acquired valuable skills and knowledge that are marketable in the workforce. What knowledge or skills does an LCS player acquire that prepare them for life after gaming? Baron and buff timers? Lane swap mechanics? LOL.

Live2LetDieOct 22, 20151 votes

I know its hard to understand, especially people like us striving for a higher education(graduating next quarter), but a lot of people still don't think college is necessary. As sad as that is, especially with how easy it is to go to college now, people still don't.

I get being a pro is a one in a life time job and I agree it should be taken if offered but these pros aren't being paid millions like other sports that pick players up out of high school. Once there done if there not as successful as Q then they need to get a job.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I know its hard to understand, especially people like us striving for a higher education(graduating next quarter), but a lot of people still don't think college is necessary. As sad as that is, especially with how easy it is to go to college now, people still don't.

I get being a pro is a one in a life time job and I agree it should be taken if offered but these pros aren't being paid millions like other sports that pick players up out of high school. Once there done if there not as successful as Q then they need to get a job.

It's true a degree is less valuable because it is the norm now. But that just means LCS players are entering the regular job market without even the basic requirements.

Imagine if the NBA was taking players before they graduated high school 50 years ago. I would argue that would have been an equivalent situation.

LuggOct 22, 20151 votes

The money you make as a pro player will pay for your college. I would much rather put off college and be debt free on graduating.

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The money you make as a pro player will pay for your college. I would much rather put off college and be debt free on graduating.

Interesting sentiment and it would be absolutely true for any major athlete. But how much money do you think Dyrus walked away with after his 5 year career?

LuggOct 22, 20151 votes

Well there is a streamer in China who made $800,000 last year. So I'm guessing Dyrus did pretty well for himself.

Radec HimayNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Interesting sentiment and it would be absolutely true for any major athlete. But how much money do you think Dyrus walked away with after his 5 year career?

20 million

MaknetoOct 22, 20151 votes

Streamers make far more money than LCS players, that's a known. I'm not sure how much LCS players make TBH, but almost any top streamer says they wouldn't play LCS because they make way more streaming.

Baseball3bOct 23, 20151 votes

A part of it too is that being an LCS player helps with popularity for streams.

I mean, imagine if Faker started streaming on Twitch.

MaknetoOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A part of it too is that being an LCS player helps with popularity for streams.

I mean, imagine if Faker started streaming on Twitch.

That's why I have said streaming is one of the only avenues an LCS player is prepared to go after pro life.

I'm just wondering if Riot tries to help prepare these kids for the real world because a few years in the LCS isn't super marketable outside of the gaming industry, and league isn't going to last forever. Also it seems like an issue when players can't even formulate sentences in interviews because they have dedicated their whole lives to this game and not living in the real world. You can try to make the comparison that athletes are the same way, but that's not true anymore and a pro athlete's career carries them for their life in most cases. A League pro's career probably won't support them much after they leave the scene or the game dies.

Baseball3bOct 23, 20151 votes

Well the average LCS player gets a $12,500 salary for 3 months of play. This doesn't include any money from sponsors, winnings, streaming etc.

Now don't get me wrong, I think potential pros should at least finish high school, but college is something you can do whenever you want, the only constraint being money. Add up the $12,500 salary plus all incentives, sponsorships, streams and off-season jobs etc your average pro player makes over the course of their career and it's more than enough to, at minimum, take a massive chunk out of the cost of college.

MaknetoOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well the average LCS player gets a $12,500 salary for 3 months of play. This doesn't include any money from sponsors, winnings, streaming etc.

Now don't get me wrong, I think potential pros should at least finish high school, but college is something you can do whenever you want, the only constraint being money. Add up the $12,500 salary plus all incentives, sponsorships, streams and off-season jobs etc your average pro player makes over the course of their career and it's more than enough to, at minimum, take a massive chunk out of the cost of college.

12.5k lol...and people think that's going to set them up for something?

A well budgeted person spends like $5k/year on food alone. Add in rent if it applies, other expenses like cable, heat, car payments/insurance, OBAMACARE LOL, and 12.5k is not enough.

Jesus that is so low...I wasn't sure what the number was but I totally expected higher.

/cry

This whole thread reinforces my idea that these LCS pro's are gonna hit the curb hard when they jump off the League train.

Baseball3bOct 23, 20151 votes

Again, it's an average. And in some cases, teams pay for their players living expenses. You have to realize that this is only 3 months of work and sponsorships and streaming isn't included. If you're a high profile player or at the very least, a decent streamer, you can do pretty well for yourself. Hell, Dyrus won $143K just from tournaments alone throughout his career.

It's honestly not a bad gig if you're a good player or a decent streamer.

Radec HimayNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

12.5k lol...and people think that's going to set them up for something?

A well budgeted person spends like $5k/year on food alone. Add in rent if it applies, other expenses like cable, heat, car payments/insurance, OBAMACARE LOL, and 12.5k is not enough.

Jesus that is so low...I wasn't sure what the number was but I totally expected higher.

/cry

This whole thread reinforces my idea that these LCS pro's are gonna hit the curb hard when they jump off the League train.

its only 2k if you eat at mcdonalds

Kal Vas FlamOct 22, 20151 votes

Well I get he idea of making money while you can (most players will get slower as they age; too slow for the pro scene anyway). And it's possible some of them just don't care about college. I regret going to college turned out to be a waste of money for me. Of course they can still go after their career is over. It is possible some of them are just dumb and think they'll be pro players for the rest of their life.

I do agree with one thing though watching these guys try to build a sentence in real time is hard to watch. Maybe tune that 100 hours of gaming a week down to 90 and read a book time to time.

Mat7itanOct 22, 20151 votes

College is optional, and it is something you can do at any point in your life. However, playing video games professionally is not something you can just decide to do later.

prozak82Oct 23, 20151 votes

you can go to college whenever the hell you want. I actually think its better to put it off a few years so you get more of a feel for what you wanna do with your life

MaknetoNov 29, 20151 votes

Wow I didn't even necro this. But the timing is perfect with everything that's going on with Quas.

I'm going to leave this here, a lot of people think it was Quas: https://web.archive.org/web/20150819020112/https://reddit.com/r/offmychest/comments/3hgkvc/lcs_player_really_frustrated_with_my_life/

Honestly, when all is said and done, these LCS players dedicate their lives to a game that they barely make a living off. What is the next step for all of these 'Riot employees' after League dies? I hope Riot is going to help them with this considering how much they have done for Riot as a company.

EDIT: and don't come at me with the 'players are contracted with individual organizations not Riot'...the environment league has created requires players to dedicate every waking moment to practice and soloq to 'be the best', and they get ridiculously low pay when compared to anything else. How many hours do you think an LCS player works per week?

Riot has a moral and ethical obligation to take care of these players after they dedicated so much to LoL.

Guyy FieriNov 29, 20151 votes

Many players, at least in the major organizations, have positions on teams upon retirement. Hai was named Cheif Gaming Officer I believe at Cloud9. TheOddOne and Dyrus I believe have both stayed on to be streamers and content creators for TSM. I'm not saying it's a perfect system but it helps.