Honest question about EU

Shiroi Kitsune·8/11/2015, 7:30:03 AM·2 votes·973 views

How does EU hope to compete with the other regions right now? I don't keep track of the LCS during the regular season, but with the performances I've seen thus far in the promotional series, they are just playing much too passively right now. 45 minute+ games? Really? When you watch a team like TSM, they are constantly aggressive, and constantly exerting pressure somewhere, but with EU teams, the exerted pressure is much lower. The same goes for top Chinese and Korean teams. They are constantly exerting pressure and making aggressive moves around the map. This may be why EU floundered so much last year at worlds, and with their current state, I wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat. Not hating on EU, just an honest concern.

11 Comments

awer4553DAFERdaB8/11/2015, 9:57:25 AM4 votes

It's actually the other way around. most of NA, or nearly every team of NA have a really really bad tendency of being inefficient. They pressure somewhat around the early game, but taking true advantage or transitioning off of kills into objectives NA teams seem really lackluster.

It's as if they dont know what to do when they take the outer turrets and get ahead by 4kish gold. I see so many NA games one team get ahead and that gold lead stays nearly the same for the next 15-20minutes until one of the teams just loses in a teamfight. They're highly inefficient, alot of random stuff happens ( the crowd loves this ) and they dont know how to close out games properly.

It's in the statistics aswell, if you look at the first dragon taken by Fnatic its around 12minutes average. For TSM that is 19minutes. Now that can be a priority or not but TSM doesn't take or transitions into something else either.

If we mention TSM, theyre actually highly overrated ( in my oppinion ) and this is why: They dont fit eachother.

-Dyrus in the toplane is an experienced player, but he comes from a meta where it was fine to passively farm for 20-30minutes then teamfight and win. He hardly ever pressures his lane or wins it straightup ( internationally ) And is an easy target for every jungler.

  • Santorin is being criticised to be to passive of a jungler. Now on the outside that seems correct, but you dont know what their set goals were before the game. Alot of santorin's pressence goes to the midlane. And here is where the problem starts in conjunction with the toplane.

  • Bjergsen is good individually. Sadly thats kinda it. He gets the most attention from santorin and quite honestly I don't see him doing more than going on par with international midlaners. But the biggest issue here is that he hardly roams or transition his so called individual prowess into a team advantage.

The thing about TSM is that if they have to cover the entirirty of the map against some better teams ( international speaking now ) .. they cant do it. I believe that's the reason santorin is kept on a leash around mid/bottem side of the map simply cause if he has to go alllll the way top, he's going to lose presssure on the bottem side, he cant contest his own buffs, dragon etc. And as mentioned before, Fnatic takes drake 7minutes earlier than TSM does on average. If santorin does go to the toplane, they're just going to lose something else elsewere on the map. The sit on mid doesn't work simply cause A. the opponent team has alrdy gained enough momentum/advantage from dyrus. B. Bjergsen isn't going to transition his advantage.

Theres alot more wrong with TSM's gameplay, it looks solid against weaker teams, but when they face better teams that know how to spot and take advantage from ( obvious ) weaknesses, suddenly TSM is forced to play the whole map and everything falls apart. And this is the big example of NA LCS in my oppinion. Weaker teams gets beaten, but against stronger teams NA doesn't ever make an upset for these reasons. C9 used to play the "trade objectives pick easy mode champions that are greatmid/late teamfighters" - Aka just ignore fighting trade ojbectives and crush them with our superior champion picks to balance our lack of individual skill.

Thing is, if you start playing against bigger teams, suddenly everything changes. Theres something wrong with TSM's playstyle and in my oppinion judging the players I don't think they will change it taht fast or actually can ( cause of lack of indvidiual skill )

I just typed away here, but in reality NA (apart from TiP maybe ) is insanely inefficient, and as long as it's in NA things balance out, but that won't work internationally. They're sort of cheesing and doing random stuff in a macro sense so to say.

Minrog8/11/2015, 8:05:23 AM3 votes

Pretty much this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fFQnIXktA

FNC is even better now than they were 2 months ago when they had Steelback. So far you haven't gotten to see the two strongest EU teams play, if you didn't watch regular summer matches. Wait until Origen and Fnatic fight their respective opponents imo.

I don't know exactly what UoL is atm, but H2K is a map control/lane swap team. They fulfill the same role in EU that Cloud 9 does in NA. Origen is about crushing lane dominance and snowballing. FNC seems to focus on map control and team fights.

The EU 2014 run was sort of ruined by Froggen and Svenskeren. Froggen because he tilted so hard and Sven because he couldn't stop being racist. Thankfully neither of those will be representing EU this time around.

PoisonedTea8/11/2015, 9:31:38 AM2 votes

Not so much

FNC is really good. They are better then everyone else in the league with a prefect record.

But that is it

All the others teams(yes even origin) are as good as NA or worst. And you saw what happened to them at MSI.

Where FNC has a chance of doing well the other teams it would be an upset.

Now I am still not sure how strong the other leagues are in comparison china has a massive amount of skilled players. And Korea is Korea but even they are being dominated by one team SKT. NA is not in a strong spot at the monument the fall of TSM was not helpful one bit.

FNC has a chance to do well maybe even make the finals with a much lower chance. The rest of the league should just be out matched.

Gaxx D8/11/2015, 8:35:17 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroi Kitsune,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=zI1NcmUz,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-11T07:30:03.612+0000)

How does EU hope to compete with the other regions right now? I don't keep track of the LCS during the regular season, but with the performances I've seen thus far in the promotional series, they are just playing much too passively right now. 45 minute+ games? Really? When you watch a team like TSM, they are constantly aggressive, and constantly exerting pressure somewhere, but with EU teams, the exerted pressure is much lower. The same goes for top Chinese and Korean teams. They are constantly exerting pressure and making aggressive moves around the map. This may be why EU floundered so much last year at worlds, and with their current state, I wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat. Not hating on EU, just an honest concern.

You didn't seem to watch many NA games either. TSM games are a snooze fest. Lane swap, take outer turrets and farm for 50 minutes. Then one teamfight decides the game. Been like this the entire split. Moreover NA teams keep making shitloads of mistakes, and they're also horrible at capitalizing enemies mistakes. People cheer for "comebacks" and such (like in TL vs TiP game) but in reality, it's a throw fest. Kinda like Roccat vs UOL series. NA has no good teams, meanwhile EU has Fnatic, who will destroy you if you make mistakes, Origen who will crush you early and snowball, and H2K who will force you into mistakes with their strategic play. Moreover those teams know how to close games (although both Origen and H2K might have issues against world class teams, which was shown in their games against Fnatic). Anyway NA is in a much worse shape, and if I were you I'd be worried about that.

PoisonedTea8/11/2015, 1:35:19 PM1 votes

FNC took SKT to 5 games at MSI. May have had many factors to it but it did happen.

TurquoiseYoshi8/11/2015, 2:24:03 PM1 votes

You ain't seen nothing yet. Fnatic is a ridiculously good team, going undefeated in the 18 regular season games. Fnatic, Origen, and H2K leave everyone else behind.

North America is too competitive to be even a possible winner at Worlds.