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Quick thoughts - msf vs tsm

woodvsmurph·10/8/2017, 7:18:55 PM·2 votes·1,057 views

We saw it with imt vs fnc, and we see it again here - na teams not respecting 4 man dive potential or early ganks bot. They need to improve their early play so they don't fall so far behind. Dying once to such a play? Understandable - letting it happen on repeat several times? Not ok.

3v5 base defense - amazing. Hauntzer plus Bjerg just delete POE from fight immediately. Hauntzer created great space for his teammates even when 2v4 and saved the tower.

Baron force - the first one when msf was doing infernal drag was great - it's what I like to look for in solo queue when my team is behind and it exploited msf's strength and recognized where they wanted to go and came up with the perfect trade/reply/counter-play. The next one, not so much. If tsm immediately turns, blows flashes as needed, and secures kill advantages vs msf, sure it's ok. But by finishing baron and eating damage vs a team that's still probably stronger than you at that time, you lose 2 people, lose ga on hauntzer, and get to do nothing with baron. Doubly bad because minions are pushing to your inner and ihib towers - giving msf an easy 5v3 force to break the base.

Teamfights - how do you lose so hard when hauntzer can 1v2 peel a strong lb and shen - even forcing out shen ult? That's essentially a 4v3 that tsm repeatedly loses. That aside - notice how in base and when hauntzer is 1v3 jumped bot (and nearly kills lb - forcing out shen ult again) how much work a renekton can do. I know most teams don't blow flash aggressively, but in this game, it would have been perfect. Hauntzer should flash stuns lb, and combo's his damage with Bjerg. This either kills or removes lb from fight right away. It also probably gets msf to blow much of their cc and burst onto Hauntzer who would be alone in enemy team - meaning his teammates are essentially full hp with their sums available and having a 5v4 to start the teamfight. Even if hauntzer dies, it's worth. Why? He's removed all the enemy's damage except their adc. He probably has ga to revive anyways. If he's getting 4 man focused hard enough to die/pop ga, he's blown most of the enemy's burst and cc which is always huge. He's grouped the enemy together - setting up a nice 3-4 man sej ult and giving Doublelift the perfect opening to free fire without danger into the clustered enemy team. Is this Hauntzer's fault he didn't do this? No - it's just pro players thinking of flash as a defensive only tool on everyone except gragas, mega gnar, and shen pretty much. There's times when flashing agro like that would be bad, but if it can give your team a decisive advantage in the teamfight that you otherwise wouldn't have, then it's worth. Especially since it's not like shen is going to punish him by killing him 1v1 in side lane for the next 5 min because renekton's flash is on cd. Hopefully in future situations like this match, tsm and other na teams will be more aware of these chances and make the aggressive plays when it counts BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE (3v5 in base was too late for it to matter) and pick up more wins.

15 Comments

lolenforcer10/8/2017, 7:39:38 PM3 votes

hello, this thread has been paused because we are recalculating Misfits strategy Leblanc

xJLx MCHammer10/8/2017, 7:33:39 PM2 votes

TSM was trying to play "too". I get that they had the late game comp but the idea is to try and stay relevant throughout the game until the late game kick in. They didn't do that. Outside of that that silly surprise Baron steal, they didn't do anything note worthy. Worse, they put too much faith on a Kog Mog. No matter what, you have to assume a LB, Sej can reach him. You can't do the same with to a Xayah

Ultimately, TSM got a bit lucky with a few nice call and plays from Bjerg but they need to start focusing on actually winning early game.

Edit: Also, they just werent playing smart late game. They use farsignt to see if they are doing elder, they noticed they aren't, so they push down mid? Idiotic

sky blower10/9/2017, 12:04:47 AM1 votes

I still think it is the misplay from DL and Sven that caused them the game. Sven was caught out a lot before so he seems to be a bit too cautious in these days. Yesterday he often fleshed in the jungle when it seems not very necessary, and today he looked too nervous to punish MSF's mistakes. As for Haunzter, he performed great in that game and he did flesh stunned LB as you mentioned in your thread. Thought the attempt was not very successful as LB just W'ed away. POE is just too good to be caught. Also, DL performed really bad and didn't respect LB as much as he should. In that last teamfight DL was hit by 3 chains from LB and died with his flesh up. Still, I think they are just underperforming in this game and I still strongly believes in TSM.

Kal Vas Flam10/9/2017, 12:25:12 AM1 votes

If you thought that was bad, wait till MSF dumpsters them next weekend.