TSM is a WASTE of a seed to go to worlds.

AwesomeChad·10/14/2017, 11:22:48 PM·49 votes·2,858 views

They are always the 1st seed representing NA at the worlds yet they ALWAYS have an awful showing. Tell me, where are the results of their "improvement and training" towards worlds? I'm so sick of this team and fans putting their faith in them when they haven't accomplished ANYTHING at any of the Worlds the past 7 seasons. I feel really bad for C9 because they actually deserve to be there at worlds every year. They've fought through the gauntlets two years in a row and no one can say they don't deserve to be there. Its ridiculous. NA continues to be a joke at worlds. NA fans harp on EU for their performances but if you really think about what EU has accomplished in 7 seasons, its way more impressive than NA. Stop making up excuses for the awful performances of the NA teams and actually fix the problem. Talk is cheap and clearly hasn't gotten any results.

44 Comments

Lugg10/14/2017, 11:53:44 PM19 votes

TSM will never have a chance at winning Worlds because their entire philosophy is about winning NA every year. That's it. As long as their mindless fans keep supporting them, they see no reason to win Worlds.

BerylCrab10/14/2017, 11:33:08 PM8 votes

I agree, matchmaking is clearly botched if these are the jokers that end up in worlds. or balance. Probably both.

Lord Yunii10/15/2017, 12:36:17 AM8 votes

TSM has always been a waste at worlds. Nothing new. They got to quarter finals once and got owned by Samsung White really hard in season 4. TSM as a whole is a very toxic organization due to simply who Andy Dihn is. He deserves no respect and his team should just dissolve, but unfortunately that is unlikely to ever happen. The only teams in NA worth anything at international events have been C9 and CLG.

D0GE KING10/14/2017, 11:27:51 PM5 votes

Why are you so butthurt, listening to the comms of TSM it sounds like they were unconfident, sure, but maybe you fail to realize how important picks and bans are, as well as gameplay itself. In the TSM vs WE game, bjerg and bio got shit on by Jayce mid. The pick simply obliterated them because TSM opted for more mid/late scaling picks and couldn't deal with the early pressure. That doesn't mean they're shit, even if ppl say bench Sven, and no matter how much you prepare, there are so many champions that you should be proud of WE for performing so well, rather than hating on TSM for underperforming.

Plus did anyone really expect NA or EU to beat SKT in worlds? There are culture differences and skill differences that factor into games, I really don't think TSM would've won worlds even if they made it out of groups because SKT is too consistent.

BabyNaix10/14/2017, 11:35:50 PM4 votes

Sven and Parth lost our NA hope at worlds :( Everyone else did well though

Illydth10/15/2017, 6:05:15 AM3 votes

Every year.

TSM Needs disbanded. I'm sincerely hoping that the switch to Bo1's sets TSM up to lose more so that potentially NA can actually make a showing internationally somehow.

NA not trash, they just have the cock blocking TSM they can't get through because TSM plays great as a Bo5 Team.

General Esdeath 10/15/2017, 8:30:35 AM3 votes

I'd rather see Delta Fox or whatever that team was with voy, qt, and Dyrus. At least then I'd expect a clown fiesta.

KazaLyn Shao10/15/2017, 5:02:08 AM2 votes

Then tell someone else to beat them. Yes, they always go as #1 seed because in the summer and spring seasons, all other teams become the cuckiest cucks to ever cuck. Why wouldn't TSM go as the #1 seed when C9 barely even gets into the playoffs? Just because TSM sucks at worlds in all seasons doesn't mean other NA teams are better. Just that NA as a whole blows.

NineTailedMystic10/15/2017, 2:49:53 AM2 votes

Not like any other NA team can take their place. Everyone other than the scumlords SKT is too shit to win so we can have nothing but disgusting SKT skins.

passıon10/15/2017, 3:04:35 AM2 votes

TSM deserve to go if they win the regional title. Whether or not they're showing up @ worlds, they're the champions of NA. Maybe next year they'll make it out

Snowplosion10/15/2017, 5:33:24 PM2 votes

I mean if someone could beat then in NA then that problem will be solved.

Jerry SeinfeId10/15/2017, 2:34:24 PM2 votes

if we're gonna tell TSM they can't go to worlds even hen they win everything in NA. Can we do the same to SKT then? mby i'd actually be interested in watching worlds again then. and we'd get some different skins again.

KawaiiShroom10/15/2017, 11:32:04 PM2 votes

They got the easiest group ever. No korean teams, and only 2nd or 3rd seeds. Did they get too cocky or did Parth do champion select drunk

Nasuuna10/18/2017, 7:09:37 PM1 votes

at least clg took a game off skt last year

Professor Ward10/15/2017, 1:35:05 PM1 votes

Didnt read a single word.

But lets be honest, having any other region besides korea compete, is at best, a joke.

Raiyza10/15/2017, 3:58:37 PM1 votes

You can say the same thing about China. EDG/WE are the top teams in China but they still lose at world's.

C9 and TSM both deserve worlds. Every team that played at world's deserved it.

TSM started out Fantastic. They lost to misfits, but does that make them a waste of a seed? Fuck no. If you ask me, TSM got shafted by their coach. Put your blame on Parth. Not the team itself.

Illydth10/15/2017, 5:14:04 PM1 votes

I'm not suggesting that Haunzter didn't have culpability in that game, just like I'm not suggesting Double or Bio didn't also have a LOT of culpability in the losses.

And as Raiyza says above, Parth also had a boatload of blame.

But there was a difference...as I said above I felt Haunzter, Double and Bio showed up. They didn't win but they did at least make plays and attempt to engage in the game. I just didn't see Bjerg be involved. Yes, I know he played and I know he did things, but he just had almost 0 impact. Sven was the same, and given we were saying the exact same thing about him last worlds, I think it's time we start looking at who needs to be replaced on that team to potentially unlock them a bit more internationally.

And then there's Parth. If Parth really ran their pick and ban phases on that stage and didn't give the players the options to choose their champs, he should be completely taken to task. I have now been watching Pro League for about 3 years. I can't remember ANY time where I've watched a team be so THOROUGHLY figured out by their opponents and still bang their heads against the same pick and ban over and over again knowing full well that they were going to get ROFLSTOMPED in the early game.

"Oh, we're going to play a team comp that only goes off if we go 40+ minutes. I realize that no team in week two has gone 40+ minutes but maybe this will be the time! ... Oh wait we lost? Well THIS will be the time! No? Ok THIS will be the time..."

Dokueki Kenshin10/15/2017, 6:51:56 PM1 votes

I don't mean to hate on your people's love for eSports, but it's a combination of typical results and stuff like this that are the primary reasons why I will NEVER pay attention to the eSports scene.

If we're being honest here, Asian server teams have won the majority of Worlds Cups. TPA won season 2. Samsung won season 4 or 5, I think. SKT, of course, accounts for three of the championships. That 5/7.

There's a reason for that, and I think that it's largely cultural.

In Southeastern Asia especially (this is strictly a general observation and is NOT meant to enforce any negative stereotypes), eSports is viewed in a much different light than the EU or the Americas. Gaming is a much more central part of their lives, as shown by the popularity of gaming cafés amongst countries in this region. What's more, people are more likely to give recognition to these players for the actual work and effort that goes into making their career choices a reality instead of silently judging them because their line of work doesn't give some sort of tangible contribution to the society of a whole.

I would go further into detail, but I understand that this is a divisive topic and could even be viewed as discriminatory or racist, which is not at all my standpoint. And obviously, yes, not everyone in a specific country or region is going to support pursuing an eSports career. But I can say with a fair amount of confidence, based on personal experiences with individuals from said cultures, that the public support those players receive in their pursuit of mastery over league is leaps and bounds beyond what other regions experience. And that's probably not going to change for a good long while.

TL;DR: I'm legitimately don't understand why anyone holds out hope that any NA team will win worlds any time soon. Our very culture holds them back.

SobeDragon10/16/2017, 4:26:58 AM1 votes

TSM's problem isn't the players for the most part. Its the coaching. They give them these shit strategies they want them to follow for their early/mid games. Its disgusting. Every year they do the same thing for worlds. They don't Adapt, they don't adjust, they play scared, they don't pick correct champions, they screw up their champion selects, they screw up their warding. Not once, not twice, not even three times, but at least 5. They have been to 7 of them.

TSM needs to step the FUCK up if they actually want to win worlds. The organization. They need better coaches, better analysts. Yes mechanics make a difference. Bjergsen and Doublelift played one year in the Finals for the 1v1 tournament. They have great mechanical skill. Game knowledge is there, but your game knowledge comes from coaches AS MUCH AS PLAYING OR MORE. Its like watching a professional NFL team play against another NFL team, with high school coaches.

BigBellBrute10/18/2017, 7:01:55 PM1 votes

TSM haters are as bad as TSM fans. But the good thing about TSM is, one of the two groups will ALWAYS be disappointed.