How does C9 win?

Mattybbridges·Oct 11, 2016·4 votes·1,268 views

SSG has shown to be a fierce foe to anyone they combat. Dominating groups when they were counted out. C9 got out by the skin of their teeth (Thanks SKT). However there is one saving grace for them. Game time. SSG in term of stats destroy C9. The only numbers higher for C9 is their game time. SSG only had 193 minutes in all of their games, C9 had a whopping 284 minutes. Why does this matter? This matters because it is the only way they will win. Somehow C9 is incredible at losing the early game, and winning the late (FW game 1 exp.) they need to bring this to late game. SSG is good in the early game, they are also good at finishing those games fast. However I believe if these games get beyond 40 minutes, it will be a C9 win. Now thinking of this how does C9 make this happen? Easy, Wave clear, Scaling, and team fights. TEAM FIGHTS. If C9 want to bring this into late that means they need to win the late. If they pick and ban accordingly. If C9 goes for the early game dominance, it will be a early loss. All said who to pick? Here's a good question, why is Meteos not playing Zac ? He has shown great skill with him being called the best in the world. He is great ganking at all points during the game, great at baron steals, and mostly best at team fights. If C9 ban Poppy, it will be a huge advantage. Jensen? I do not know why Jensen is playing like its black and white. Extremely good, or Extremely bad. He needs to get on those safe late game picks. Orianna? Victor? These picks will give him the wave clear all game, the safety of defensive kits, and lastly game changing team fights. He can get there and do so well, the problem is getting there. Impact? Yeah give him whoever, he will win or at least attract jungle. Lastly the bot lane. Sneaky is a great ADC, but it seems he can't get rolling with the EZ . Why not a champ that helps with the wave clear, allows him to play safe while contributing to team fights. Varus, Caitlyn? Or being true to his name, bring out the twitch! And lastly Smootie. He is rough and the edges right now. He needs a champ that can play offensive, and defense. That he wont get destroyed every time he sees an enemy champ. Braum is fine. Though he needs to play a bit better early. What about thresh? Peeling, and initiation. He has the ability to pull it off, it allows them to get to late. Karma is also a good pick, as long as he stops playing Karma like a tank and plays back so he isn't caught every time. C9 are the under dogs, but they have a chance. I really feel they need to pull out the team fights and win that way, not in the first 10 minutes. I do acknowledge that I could very well be wrong. How do you feel??

22 Comments

MelvearOct 11, 20164 votes

Meteos didn't play Zac Zac because it was banned against him every single game. As far as what they have to do to win games, I have to agree they have to draft for team fights, and avoid losing match ups in lane. Doesn't mean they need to actually beat the lanes, just stay even until they're scaled up. Having multiple ways to engage seems necessary. The game they played vs SKT in week 2 was actually very good, but they were never able to initiate the fight right. Vision control is part of the issue, but if SSG play the vision game as well as SKT did, they need to have a way to force team fights. Jhin Jhin and Ashe Ashe come to mind as 2 champion Sneaky is spectacular on and that fight this agenda. Braum's Braum a good choice for both offensive and defensive missions, much like TK TahmKench . Jensen's very good on pretty much every champion I've seen him on, but Syndra Syndra and Cass Cassiopeia seem to be his go to and they're both very good choice all around. Impact is great on strong split push/dueling champions. We all got to love his Gnar Gnar in playoffs and it would be great to see him on it again. Trundle Trundle comes to mind as well as a strong top laner. Jungle right now seems more open than before, with carry picks coming in as well as tanky control champions. I still think strong peel/tanks are best, especially when you have carries like Impact and Jensen to rely on for damage. Maokai Maokai and Nautilus both have fair clear, massive gank potential and CC coming out of every abilities they have and late game tankiness.

That's my assessment but than again, adaptability is the name of the game in Bo5 and they need to be able to either play around whatever SSG throws at them or have multiple working strategy to win games. Last year was a brilliant exemple of what not to do. 1 strat that works extremely well once but gets trashed once revealed and countered well.

SiytherOct 11, 20162 votes

let it be said also that c9 has always sucked in best of ones. Their strength is in best of 3 or 5's. Where they can adapt to what the others are doing. That being said meteos absolutly has to be on a play making tank like (reksai) sneaky needs to either get jihn or ashe ( his ez seems not as good as the koreans) or just get on a hyper carry and kill them all late game.Koreans ward way to well for twitch to be effective so i dont belive this is an option. I know that they can win i just hope they dont just come in with one strat or one team comp cause if they do they will be destroyed.

MattybbridgesOct 11, 20161 votes

I completely agree, however with Jensen I think grabbing Orianna is a good pick as he has shown he is incredibly reliable on her. I have faith in C9, however its going to be a very hard uphill battle. I cannot wait to see it unfold!

xJLx MCHammerOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree, however with Jensen I think grabbing Orianna is a good pick as he has shown he is incredibly reliable on her. I have faith in C9, however its going to be a very hard uphill battle. I cannot wait to see it unfold!

ori does not do wel vs Viktor or Aureion. Ryze also destroys her

The OasisOct 11, 20162 votes

If they wanna win the Lategame they would have to survive to that point. You have a fair assment of what theyre strong on, but I really think Maokai and Nautilus would get dumpstered by high pressure junglers and lose them the game.

xJLx MCHammerOct 11, 20163 votes

Ban Aurelion, Viktor, and get winning lanes

MattybbridgesOct 11, 20162 votes

Even with winning lanes C9 haven't been able to truly win those lanes. They show that their laning phase is very passive and even if they get a small lead, they normally throw it in the mid game for being over confident. Also Crown on Ryze is deadly too, but are you really only going to bad mid lane?

xJLx MCHammerOct 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Even with winning lanes C9 haven't been able to truly win those lanes. They show that their laning phase is very passive and even if they get a small lead, they normally throw it in the mid game for being over confident. Also Crown on Ryze is deadly too, but are you really only going to bad mid lane?

Yeah, honestly I think it's all in the midlane. I'm now calling Jensen bad but the mid lane is usually where comps tend to focus the "stall" game. Vicktor, Ryze, orianna,etc all have insane wave clear. Sure ADC can but with the exception of Sivir they have to build for it and early on its normally not a good bye in pro play.

I believe their bot lane is good. If they can hang with and even beat skt bot lane, they can beat SSG. Don't forget in korea, SKT has not been killed in bot lane by SSG this season.

C9 bot is he most consistent bot lane this year. They gotten kills without jungled against TSM and every other adc duo in NA. Top lane is fine. Impact knows how to lose without falling between far. Look at his math against huni who got Yas vs Shen. He never killed him despite multiple attempts.

And then there is jungle. I'm undecided on this as both junglers like the team fighting junglers like Skarner, Gragas..etc neither really likes Lee

MunchCrunchLunchOct 12, 20163 votes

if SSG gets viktor or ryze they win. put crown behind. hes the one that carries the team.

also jensen has been absolute shit. he was so clutch in the season. now hes absolute shit. they need to get him a good pick.

RandomoniumOct 11, 20162 votes

Good stuff but I hope that C9 is smart enough to ban Viktor since crown is probably the best Viktor player in the world.

warpenguin555Oct 11, 20162 votes

By: Keeping Meteos off Lee Sin Jensen using his brain and not walking forward in lane to give up a free gank and 1st blood Top Die

MattybbridgesOct 11, 20162 votes

Smoothie not dying 27 times a game.

warpenguin555Oct 11, 20161 votes

also that yeah

DestructoDaveOct 12, 20162 votes

They looked pretty good against SKT. I dont think SSG is on SKT's level. I think it was more TSM failing hardcore in groups that had this result. I think the series will be closer than expected. I think C9 will get leads but probably struggle to capitalize.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 12, 20162 votes

how did C9 exactly look good against SKT? they got a cpl early lead and then they got absolutely destroyed.

DestructoDaveOct 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

how did C9 exactly look good against SKT? they got a cpl early lead and then they got absolutely destroyed.

They got early leads. Samsung is not the same team as SKT. SKT wouldn't get absolutely mauled by TSM like they did. I mean we can go round and round about this, but the point is, SSG is not anywhere near the same level as SKT, and C9 held their own. Hell, even C9 didnt get mauled by TSM like SSG did. I mean we can go around and around about this, but its pointless. The point is, SKT look like the clear favorites to take it all yet again, and C9 did decent vs. them, and I dont think SSG is even in the same ballpark as SKT. They are the 3rd seed from Korea for a reason.

Yxgl222HaXOct 12, 20162 votes

Imo smoothie is fine on alistair, keep impact on rumble and things will be K. Jensen could go back to the orianna more hes done good things with it- but what id really like to see is jensen pick up veigar. they did it in worlds last year and it went really well and his AP scaling is just disgusting now. Im always surprised i dont see more of veigar honestly, yes he has low mobility and escapes, but hes super easy mechanically and you can literally just press R to remove an enemy carry in a fight, much like syndra only without the mechanics needed. sneaky could twitch jhin or lucian well, and memeos could do the vi, zac or hell even graggy or seju even though theyre not S tier if you cc lock a veig stun with those ults you could set up some brutal team fights, use explosive keg or smash pulvarize into a veig stun and its gg. Or give a seju or alistair the ori ball and youre off to a good start. Imo doing these would give them as good a shot as any

MattybbridgesOct 13, 20161 votes

I completely agree with the viegar! I basically main him now and he is so powerful is it incredible. that stun alone and change games! I really hope to see it this week, if I dont I will be so sad

Yxgl222HaXOct 13, 20161 votes

anyone who can be 700+ ap with only 3 completed items is just broken af lul. I usually go morello- roa (for scaloing and a little hp) into death cap and by then im sitting at around 700. Then i polish it off with a void staff into a rylias for more hp, or an hourglass if they happen to have a zed or something. Then im usually around 1.3k ish (with at least 2-300 ap from my passive) , then add elixers,elder or baron and you can easily hit the 1500 ap mark. So far my personal best was 1.9k ap but i know others have done better. This champion is a monster and last year they played it with lee and got kicks into the veig stuns and made even meteos's lee look good. Jensen pls. http://prnt.sc/ctf4qm

MattybbridgesOct 13, 20161 votes

Yeah his build path is completely changeable too! He can build so many things and be viable. My person best is also 1900. And at that point things do not live around you. There is SOOO many options with his cage (poppy, janna, lee, vayne, skarner, blitz, thresh, gnar... I could go on but you get that point) basically any champ that can move another, works really well. get some strong front line and make them all ad. It creates this weird situation where the enemy wants to build Armor, but if they do, they get one shot by you. There is so many ideas, SOMEONE PLAY IT DAMMIT

MazariamontiOct 11, 20161 votes

Yeah I think picking champs that can force fights is probably the ONLY way they can win. We saw it in game 2 against SKT, even when they got the advantage early they had no way of forcing fights through SKT vision. Basically they were relying entirely on Jensen to snare, it against a good team they'll just beat the Ryze's face in if he tries engaging that way (like SKT did to Jensen).

Gnar, kennen, rumble

Reksai, zac, Elise, evelynn possibly

Jensen's orianna is fantastic and is such a great pick I have no idea why he only played it one time

Ashe got nerfed but she still fills that role of starting fights and that is what they need. Jhin, obviously if sneaky can get it. Stay off the freaking Ezreal.

Bard, Alistar, Tahm (I don't know if Smoothie plays Morgana at a high level like Lemonnation and Hai could, but if you want to survive lane and still have playmaking potential pick Morgana)

Obviously they know way better than I do, but in watching basically every Cloud 9 game for the past few years, when they are at their absolute best is when they pick champions that force fights to happen with little to no chance of screwing it up. The Ashe/Zyra bot lane in season 3. The Morgana/ Elise combo they ran for much of season 4. The Fast push with Veigar in season 5. Those are the types of team comps that you can see an opportunity and jump on it instantly with little to no chance of messing it up.

This team right now is running around trying to land lee sin q's that lead into lee sin kicks that lead into Cass aoe that have to have a kennen TP at the exact right time from the back line in order to even come out even.

I think these teams lose too much of themselves when they go to Korea for a month. Theyre not going to improve dramatically mechanics wise just by playing a month in Korea. They're not going to out Korean strat the Korean teams. They just end up wearing themselves out by flying to the other side of the planet, moving into an unfamiliar environment for a month, practicing as much as possible in that unfamiliar environment, then flying back to the other side of the planet where they can then move again into another unfamiliar environment. They should have just of stayed where they were at and scrimmed against Immortals or something.

MattybbridgesOct 13, 20161 votes

I love the comment on Korea. You are completely right, no one can beat Korea in Koreans meta... FW knows that, but the rest of the world has not caught on. It's good to take a thing or two (learning is always good) but to copy them is ludicrous. The saying if you cant beat em join em doesnt work in league. It should be if you cant beat em, be creative cheese em, or play a game that only you understand. ANL is the only team ive seen in so long that does this. They play their game, no one elses... and its working.