Meet the New Jungler for Echo Fox...

TBakes·Aug 30, 2016·1 votes·877 views

...........................................................................Dardoch! Look it up!

14 Comments

III BAKURYU III Aug 31, 20163 votes

Looks good on paper for Echo Fox with Froggen and Dardoch but it's going to be the same story as it was with Team Liquid as far as gameplay goes.

Team Liquid super passive team that does nothing for 40+ Mins, a mid laner that use to be aggressive and made plays with Fenix but each split has turned more and more passive in his play and only farms.

Echo Fox super passive team that does nothing for 40+ Mins, a mid laner Froggen that doesn't do anything but farms for year gets caught and dies.

WIth Dardoch on Echo Fox Froggen really needs to play aggressive and no worry about getting 700 cs per game with a game ending score of 0-1-0-700 or it will be another 0-50 split for Echo Fox.

TBakesAug 31, 20162 votes

Yeah I see what you are saying. I think it will be just what they need. Froggen and kfo can carry if they need to. I thik KEITH showed some strong games too, but they were all held back by Hard. I don't think there was a single game where he impressed me. Same with Big, but I think the jungle pressure was what held them back all season. Should be interesting to see Liquid without him and if Echo Fox can effectively utilize him.

III BAKURYU III Aug 31, 20161 votes

Oh yeah Echo Fox with Dardoch is 100% better than with Hard. I personally think Hard and Moon are the worst LCS players I have seen in some time if not The Worst.

Team Liquid with Dardoch on paper looks better than Echo Fox with Dardoch.

KFO or KFC as I call him gets destroyed each game and is just a really bad laner, he has the right mindset and has the right attitude and will make plays but when your behind in CS and constantly 0-3 with barely getting 2 assists a game something needs to change. A replacement that I would like to see if Echo Fox wants to win more than 5 games would replace KFC with Quas.

Quas showed last split that he wanted to go into teamfights and start something each game but would get left out 24/7 by his team. This will help Dardoch with someone that will go into fights with him instead running away like Lourlo.

BIG reminds me of Gate where he plays support but sucks at the role.

If I was the Gm or Coach or Owner or Manager or Rick Fox or whoever runs the team o.O This is the roster I would try to get with the players in FA

TOP KFC - QUAS JUNGLE Hard - Dardoch MID Froggen - Froggen ADC Keith - Keith Sup BIG - Kiwkikid

TBakesAug 31, 20162 votes

I was pleasantly surprised by Quas, not gonna lie. However, even with a much worse jungler, kfo had a higher CSD at 10 and CS per minute than Quas. His DPM was worse and KDA was worse, but Quas had Santorin to help pressure.

I would only switch the jungler (I expected Inori, not Dardoch), and possibly support. I think adding Kiwikid would be a lateral move, not really a huge upgrade. They are almost identical in wards per minute, death percentage, and KDA. I would rather see them grab a Challenger player or something, but the added jungle pressure might really be all they need to perform a bit better.

III BAKURYU III Aug 31, 20161 votes

I agree with the did more with a worse jungler like Hard for Kfo but Quas had Santorin to help pressure lol, I'm sorry but I think Santorin is the most overrated junglers in the NA LCS. I think he cares more about his looks in and out of game and his own personal KDA than about winning or doing anything.

Nah Inori has now became a stable name (not a huge name) but something for P1 to build around so I'm expecting him to stay on P1.

Yeah Kiwi isn't a huge upgrade and has never been a Great player Top or Support but alot of his deaths come from warding the map and gets left alone while doing so but with Dardoch counter jungling so much I think it will help Kiwi from dying so much if he has someone who wont' run away to base and fix his hair like Santorin has in the past.

TBakesAug 31, 20162 votes

Lol yeah I wouldn't say Santorin was that great either, but I would put him ahead of Hard and Moon. Pretty even with Shrimp, but still lower than Inori, Dardoch, Meteos, Sven, Xmithie, Reignover, and Procxin.

S tier-Reignover A tier-Sven, Dardoch, Xmithie B tier-Meteos, Inori C tier-Procxin D tier-Santorin, Shrimp F tier-Hard, Moon

That is how my personal rankings would be. What do you think?

III BAKURYU III Aug 31, 20161 votes

I agree with maybe Dardoch and Meteos. While Dardoch is a carry for his team while Meteos is more so as a back up team player.

I just don't see Dardoch being A tier (My opinion) Reason for it is because when a match up is focused say Reignover vs Dardoch / Xmthie vs Dardoch hype to the game I feel like Dardoch makes it his mission to just out farm or try to out smart the jungler instead of putting his mindset and abilities to help the team but it's just a personal matter to me as I like to think about Player's Skills and their tendencies.

Dardoch is still a young player and I do and hope the best in his LCS Career but at such a young start to his career he has already been benched, talked about being replaced, kicked, raged, and went to a different team as well so while the talent is there his mindset or maturity isn't.

Miror BAug 31, 20162 votes

See, for me I'd much rather see a full-scrap of the team. While they did show promise in the second half of spring (when teams like dig/"ren"/tip were more or less feeding wins off), this team right now clearly lacks any sort of pressure. With all the free agents available, they could theoretically rebuild their entire roster (excluding froggen, as rick fox clearly wants him there) and take advantage of what is sure to be an extremely advantageous open market right now. If I were them, my roster for 2017 would look something like this, assuming C9 sells their LCS spot and doesn't "double down" in challenger again:

Top: Quas/Solo/Balls JG: Dardoch Mid: Froggen ADC: Fabbyy/Altec Sup: Hybrid/Bunny

Also, I'm incredibly interested to see what happens to TL after this. Losing one decent player can often be recoverable (c9 did it with rush), losing two can often be incredibly detrimental (OG going from 2nd to 9th). If we're going to be realistic, their only options right now for replacing their JG consist of one of the C-tier free agents (Moon, Hard assuming they do get rid of him, Santorin), bringing back Dom (which I personally think is incredibly unlikely), or attempting to steal Contractz off C9 (which again, I see as being heavily unlikely). ADC is also something that they might replace, with Jynthe having the series vs NV to show how good he is (Piglet always an option for replacing him in the off-season if he doesn't immediately light things up).

TBakesAug 31, 20161 votes

Yeah, I was assuming that the C9C team would try to stay together, because that is what they said after getting promoted. However, if they were to be free agents when the buyer purchases the spot, I could see Balls getting added to FOX for sure. He proved to be pretty solid throughout the Summer. I always felt like he was holding C9 back last year, so I was glad he got replaced, but then watching him in Challenger he seemed really good again.

I don't think Bunny wants to play professionally anymore. But, of course, that's what they all say until they come out of retirement. I could see him or Hybrid getting on this squad too.

My personal thoughts are that they should keep kfo, Froggen, and KEITH, and replace the jungle (which they did) and support and see how that affects their carries' ability to carry. They would also have the option of allowing Dardoch to carry, an option that did not really exist all split, which makes for a very stale gameplan. You will notice most of the top teams have a jungler that can support or carry: Svenskeren, Reignover, Xmithie, Trick, Jankos. I would say Trashy/Splyce and Meteos/C9 are the exception.

As for TL, I would be very surprised if they kept Arcsecond as a kind of converted jungler. I also doubt IWD will come off the bench/Academy. I liked what I saw when Jynthe was playing ADC. It was really surprising. I am guessing Piglet is trying to leave the team? I'm really confused why they haven't put him back in for the 2v2 meta. I guess they could snatch Santorin and see how it goes. If they got Contractz that would be great, but I also doubt that would happen. Who knows?

Miror BSep 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I was assuming that the C9C team would try to stay together, because that is what they said after getting promoted. However, if they were to be free agents when the buyer purchases the spot, I could see Balls getting added to FOX for sure. He proved to be pretty solid throughout the Summer. I always felt like he was holding C9 back last year, so I was glad he got replaced, but then watching him in Challenger he seemed really good again.

I don't think Bunny wants to play professionally anymore. But, of course, that's what they all say until they come out of retirement. I could see him or Hybrid getting on this squad too.

My personal thoughts are that they should keep kfo, Froggen, and KEITH, and replace the jungle (which they did) and support and see how that affects their carries' ability to carry. They would also have the option of allowing Dardoch to carry, an option that did not really exist all split, which makes for a very stale gameplan. You will notice most of the top teams have a jungler that can support or carry: Svenskeren, Reignover, Xmithie, Trick, Jankos. I would say Trashy/Splyce and Meteos/C9 are the exception.

As for TL, I would be very surprised if they kept Arcsecond as a kind of converted jungler. I also doubt IWD will come off the bench/Academy. I liked what I saw when Jynthe was playing ADC. It was really surprising. I am guessing Piglet is trying to leave the team? I'm really confused why they haven't put him back in for the 2v2 meta. I guess they could snatch Santorin and see how it goes. If they got Contractz that would be great, but I also doubt that would happen. Who knows?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Hai merely said that they all still want to play competitively (not together). I will definitely say that the "free agent class" right now is better than it has been in years, as barring midlane (GBM) there are multiple quality players at each position of which teams can use to improve their rosters. Bunny/Hybrid would lead the support class, and assuming each one is willing would probably be offered a spot on literally every team outside the top 4 in EU (FNC/G2/SPY/H2K) or NA (TSM/CLG/IMT/C9).

I heavily disagree with the notion that Fox should keep keith because of one simple "fact" that the commentators were spamming since week 5 during echo fox games: Keith has received the third-most resources of all ADC's in NA, but does the 2nd fewest damage. While you could blame his entire team for that, the simple fact is that unlike other ADC's on bad teams (freeze/forgiven when he wasn't on h2k/Steelback) his overall track record makes me think he's just generally a bad player. If they can happen to replace Keith with someone like a utility-adc specialist (fabby) or an experienced carry-focused adc (altec) in what is a pretty drenched market, why shouldn't they?

TL still remains a fun team to watch, if only because their entire history consists of "something good happens for a short time, something bad then happens for a slightly longer time, doesn't make it to worlds because of it". If we consider the entirety of the 2016 season as an example, then they've had Dardoch come into the LCS/become a "god" (good thing), Dom retiring while not exactly having a "hall of fame career" (bad thing), Dardoch winning rookie of the split (good thing), Dardoch being benched for the first week and a half due to "Attitude" during which Moon puts on a pretty terrible performance (bad thing), Fabby comes in during which the team has noticably better shotcalling and macro (good thing), Fabby gets benched in favor of total rookie Jynthe after which both him and Dardoch leave (one of the worst things possible for TL). I personally can't wait to see what happens next, only because it could very well be met with an even more out of the blue yet somehow expected bad thing.

hotarseSep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Hai merely said that they all still want to play competitively (not together). I will definitely say that the "free agent class" right now is better than it has been in years, as barring midlane (GBM) there are multiple quality players at each position of which teams can use to improve their rosters. Bunny/Hybrid would lead the support class, and assuming each one is willing would probably be offered a spot on literally every team outside the top 4 in EU (FNC/G2/SPY/H2K) or NA (TSM/CLG/IMT/C9).

I heavily disagree with the notion that Fox should keep keith because of one simple "fact" that the commentators were spamming since week 5 during echo fox games: Keith has received the third-most resources of all ADC's in NA, but does the 2nd fewest damage. While you could blame his entire team for that, the simple fact is that unlike other ADC's on bad teams (freeze/forgiven when he wasn't on h2k/Steelback) his overall track record makes me think he's just generally a bad player. If they can happen to replace Keith with someone like a utility-adc specialist (fabby) or an experienced carry-focused adc (altec) in what is a pretty drenched market, why shouldn't they?

TL still remains a fun team to watch, if only because their entire history consists of "something good happens for a short time, something bad then happens for a slightly longer time, doesn't make it to worlds because of it". If we consider the entirety of the 2016 season as an example, then they've had Dardoch come into the LCS/become a "god" (good thing), Dom retiring while not exactly having a "hall of fame career" (bad thing), Dardoch winning rookie of the split (good thing), Dardoch being benched for the first week and a half due to "Attitude" during which Moon puts on a pretty terrible performance (bad thing), Fabby comes in during which the team has noticably better shotcalling and macro (good thing), Fabby gets benched in favor of total rookie Jynthe after which both him and Dardoch leave (one of the worst things possible for TL). I personally can't wait to see what happens next, only because it could very well be met with an even more out of the blue yet somehow expected bad thing.

I just want to respond to your assessment of Keith. Stats only tell part of the story. You're going to be doing less damage if you're losing. Seeing that Keith still manages to get some advantages in farm during the laning phase means he is still a strong player on a team that simply couldn't pass muster, particularly when it came to jungling and maybe also support. I like Big a lot, he seems really energetic and motivated, but I just didn't see him doing very much mechanically for the team. Keith's style is a bit more carry centric. back when you had more carry oriented ADCs in the meta, he was tearing it up. I think the meta could shift back to that style at some point, and having keith then would be awesome. Maybe go for the 2 ADC players and bring in one of those utility ADCs you mentioned, but keep keith for when you want to carry from that position.

hotarseAug 31, 20162 votes

On one hand I would criticize Dardoch for a leaving a team that still had a chance to go to worlds. Even if the likelihood of doing well at worlds was slim, it would've been a worthwhile experience and definitely something worth fighting for. On the other hand, Liquid/Curse has a history of having the douchebagiest management. Wishywashy Steve treats his troops like they are as replaceable as the soggy broccoli in your instant dinner. So what does this mean for Liquid's chances of claiming fourth in the race for worlds (which is exactly what the curse has always been) now that they have a completely subpar roster. I think they could still beat NV on the strength of their champion select and Pheonix. But to beat c9 after they've shown themselves to be super strong? Wow, that would be an upset of epic proportions. But don't count them out just yet. With nerfs to both Reksai and Gragas coming down the line, Meteos will probably bring out his infamous Elise and start missing cocoons left and right. Any champ with a skill shot will ruin Meteos and the team will tilt forward. The curse should hold true, with IMT taking down liquid. Perhaps Dardoch threatened the curse enough to have the cosmos call on his trade.

And going further, I have to say, I like echo fox with Dardoch. I want McBrief to succeed so bad after he was dismissed from liquid after posting great performances. Hard was probably the worst player in the LCS last split, and to replace your greatest weakness with arguably one of the strongest player in the NA LCS will go a long ways. Still have my doubts about Froggen, the guy hasn't exactly carried like he has in the past, but with a decent lineup he might have the motivation to take his game a step forward.

Props to Dardoch for getting out of a nasty situation. Props to Fox (always hated your goonery in the NBA) and your team for picking up a quality player. Here's hoping you can manage your team well enough to actually threaten for world's next year.

TBakesAug 31, 20161 votes

I am always interested to see how teams and individuals adapt to roster changes and champ buffs/nerfs. As a C9 fan, I am most interested to see Meteos on other champs. I have found myself rooting for Echo Fox all summer, even though they were very underwhelming. Since All-Stars last year I have wanted Froggen to succeed, so I am really hoping Dardoch can contribute to that.