I think the biggest reason NA struggles in PC esports is because we are very diversified in gaming. We play console and PC games, if you look at console communities they don't have much players that are from Europe and Asia. I would consider those regions PC focused, while in NA it's more console focus. NA tends to do really well in console games such as Call of Duty, Smash Bros, and Halo.
Lucky Sandhu4 votesIf you look at league tournaments in China and Korea, teams have to play 2-5 games in a row frequently and the whole event goes for hours. NA does not commit that much time, neither do the players commit as much time as Chinese and Korean players for practice. Whoever has a stronger gamer's soul wins, con-soul does not make any difference.
Xonra2 votesI think the reason NA struggles is because we had no incentive to stay ahead, and we got too much money too quick.
NA was the first to get real money, and sure EU caught up fast, and even won S1 (edit: I fat fingered and hit the number 2) worlds, but they never made the same money, especially with streaming, because most of the players aren't marketable.
China came in without all the money and it came naturally, now they get the big bucks to just buy the good players to add to their pool. Then again they have about 5 bazillion more people to pull from realistically.
I just believe it all comes down to money, and pro players lose the drive (even if they won't admit it) when they see the big bucks.
While Everyone has a drive to succeed, when you are making as much money as some of the NA players do just from streaming alone, it is probably hard to see the old goal when you have cash and seem successful in other ways.
Of course there is also the NA factor that other regions don't really have. If you take Doublelift as an example, he has interviews, streaming, sponsor events, team sponsor events, etc etc.
Korean players, say, Faker (not comparing the two players in skill just in recognition). Faker doesn't stream all that much unless he is doing solo queue for practice, he doesn't go do his own sponsorship thing, etc etc. He has a strict schedule of practice and play that most NA players take advantage of and choose to relax or play...counter strike or hearth stone (like most of CLG has gone on record of saying they play as much cs:go the past year as they do practicing solo queue)
It all comes down to money. When you get the money, you feel accomplished, when you aren't getting paid UNTIL you meet your goal, you have to be more highly motivated to succeed.
Sinister Edward1 votesMoney has nothing to do with being the best in a game. Bjergsen makes more money than probably anyone in na, and he can compete with anyone the world. As i stated before it has to with diversity between console and pc gaming the talent is too spread the amount of players that play much are less in na than any other regions.
Vixanys2 votesRight but Koreans only get a portion of the salary an NA player makes. Hence the Korean export of pro players (NA/EU/CN) for more money.
What the OP is saying is that since Pro gamers in the US have such a high salary the only incentive is to stay a pro, not to be the very best (in some case) I will disagree that it is this way for MOST of the top tier NA teams, but still there just isn't a lot of competition in NA and 9-10 weeks of professional play NA is less experience than a 4 day International Event with EU/CN/KR.
Yandere Carry1 votesOP is wrong about pro salary. The money issue isn't about big money baller pro salary. It's that the most lucrative avenue in League is by being entertaining/streaming over simply being good.
Xonra1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sinister Edward,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uEg5iIA6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-06-03T08:42:20.860+0000)
Money has nothing to do with being the best in a game. Bjergsen makes more money than probably anyone in na, and he can compete with anyone the world. As i stated before it has to with diversity between console and pc gaming the talent is too spread the amount of players that play much are less in na than any other regions.
He also isn't from NA. He was good before he came to NA, and he has actually gotten worse since he has been in NA.
the first split and season he was in NA, people were straight up scared of this guy, and for good reason. Now he is a shotcaller (which hinders his playmaking a lot), and has gotten cocky (just watch the tsm videos he is in with that terrible attitude he has now, compared to a year ago). He is still, probably the best midlaner in NA, but most NA mid laners are terrible compared to every other region.
Since Bjerg has gotten paid and become an "NA" Mid laner, his skills have dropped off a notable amount. that doesn't mean he is suddenly terrible, but he isn't at the level he was when he first joined TSM.
Yandere Carry1 votesBjer had a shit attitude before he ever came to NA.
Yandere Carry1 votesEU didn't win S2 worlds
Xonra1 votes[{quoted}](name=Tang Bohu,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uEg5iIA6,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-06-03T09:12:45.605+0000)
EU didn't win S2 worlds
It was a 3 in the morning fat finger. I meant to hit 1.
ReflectiveFly1 votesBut was favourite to win season 2 worlds
Lstrike1 votesI think the reason NA struggles is because we had no incentive to stay ahead, and we got too much money too quick.
NA was the first to get real money, and sure EU caught up fast, and even won S2 worlds, but they never made the same money, especially with streaming, because most of the players aren't marketable.
China came in without all the money and it came naturally, now they get the big bucks to just buy the good players to add to their pool. Then again they have about 5 bazillion more people to pull from realistically.
I just believe it all comes down to money, and pro players lose the drive (even if they won't admit it) when they see the big bucks.
While Everyone has a drive to succeed, when you are making as much money as some of the NA players do just from streaming alone, it is probably hard to see the old goal when you have cash and seem successful in other ways.
Of course there is also the NA factor that other regions don't really have. If you take Doublelift as an example, he has interviews, streaming, sponsor events, team sponsor events, etc etc.
Korean players, say, Faker (not comparing the two players in skill just in recognition). Faker doesn't stream all that much unless he is doing solo queue for practice, he doesn't go do his own sponsorship thing, etc etc. He has a strict schedule of practice and play that most NA players take advantage of and choose to relax or play...counter strike or hearth stone (like most of CLG has gone on record of saying they play as much cs:go the past year as they do practicing solo queue)
It all comes down to money. When you get the money, you feel accomplished, when you aren't getting paid UNTIL you meet your goal, you have to be more highly motivated to succeed.
One small correction: EU won S1 worlds not S2.. Agree with rest of the stuff
ReflectiveFly1 votesNa was ahead before Eu server came up , actually it was Eu that came up with adc/sup meta and counterjungeling , plus its not realy about money , doesnt matter if u have money and your players are just chilling , dont have right solo q environment . i dont think Na will ever be relevant since instead of doing their own thing and developing meta on their own they just blindely copy Korea and are basically always late since they wait for korea to figure things up. Just honest opinion .
Lugg2 votesNA just doesn't have the same amount of high quality teams to compete against. When you aren't used to pushing yourself every week, you don't improve as fast. That is why the Chinese and Koreans are so good, every week you are facing a really good team.
Sinister Edward1 votesI don't buy that argument at all because you can send na and eu teams to Korea or china and they still wouldn't get better. It has to do with talent and people playing that's why na gets players from other regions. As i stated before it's because of Na diversity we have gamers from console and pc which takes talent away, unlike china and korea and most countries in eu, they are more pc focus which brings more players and more talent.
Yandere Carry1 votesthey dont get that much better in a week. It's more about continuous competition.
Lugg1 votesIt's like soccer. The US sucked at it until it became popular enough for a decent pool of talent to develop. ESports will be the same way.
Facy2 voteswrong, the reason why NA struggles can be a medical reason.... the amount of sugar consumed and the sugar in their meals etc. is a lot higher then it is in the rest of the world its a known fact that sugar is rly bad for your health (not talking about getting fat more talking about the addiction part and what it does to your stress lvl) Looking at how kids grow up there and the amount of sugar they are used to consume it is no wonder that they do bad in this particular ''sport''.
NuSix32 votesOne thing I've noticed is the way NA talks about scrims -- like that is their practice. Scrims should be treated as warmups where you test some real basic strategies, or some real wild ones that you would never test in a game that matters -- or do everything opposite of how you plan so if anyone squeals on you to the other team it will only help you.
From what I see in TSM legends it looks like they develop actual game day strategies in their scrims... obviously someone is going to tell your opponent what you're up to. I know I'd be abusing the hell out of that system if I was a coach.
stealthfox941 votesPlain and simple the Asian teams have more dedication and E-Sports are treated as a real sport there like Football and basketball, this isn't the case in the west. Western teams don't play as many games as Asian teams do.
ReflectiveFly1 votesIts more about attitude than PC or console , in Na tryharding is not a thing , people are trolling and seem to prioritize fun over hard work . Na is motherland of pop culture so it is kinda expected.
Ale non è male1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sinister Edward,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uEg5iIA6,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-03T07:15:45.214+0000)
I would consider those regions PC focused, while in NA it's more console focus. NA tends to do really well in console games such as Call of Duty, Smash Bros, and Halo.
That's laughable. NA has a sizable player base both for PC and console games, it is just they are bad in any e-sport where other regions are interested in Smash Bros is probably the only competitive game that has had an estabilished competitve scene for long time where NA competes well (and Smash is far more popular in NA than in the other countries excewpt Japan, and JAPAn doesn't really have a developed esports scene), the other two games scenes have been kinda unstable, pumped basically by the game producers which are NA based, and the other regions have had far less interest spent on it in than NA
