Challenger Series Update

Riot·Sep 17, 2014·0 votes·45,505 views

TLDR:

DDoS attacks have been an issue this season. As such, we’re focused on enhancing our existing technical support for Challenger teams to make sure that the only thing that decides a match is skill.
We are currently discussing multiple format changes for 2015 including a round-robin style season similar to the LCS that will allow the best teams to rise to the top.
We are considering a new rule around auto-promotion and auto-relegation, which would mean the LCS 10th place team would automatically go to Challenger and Challenger Series champion would automatically move into the LCS after each split.
We are giving Challenger Series its own day of the week and updating ownership rules to restrict ownership to two teams - one in Challenger and one in the LCS.

Hey, it’s Nick Allen, League Operations Manager, returning with another update from the esports team. Giving insights into our decision-making process for competitive League of Legends is an important goal for us. Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions from the community on how we plan to evolve the Challenger scene. In that spirit, I’d like to offer some more details for the Challenger Series next season. Our goals with the Challenger Series are to:

Develop the sustainability and consistency of the Challenger scene
Empower and prepare the next generation of teams for the LCS
Create a clear path to LCS for amateurs and former pro players
Share the stories of the Challenger teams

It’s been a great seeing the opportunities that the Challenger Series has provided teams to transition from the amateur scene to playing League of Legends as their full-time profession in the LCS, as well as former pros return with new teams to fight their way back into the LCS. Several successful Challenger Series teams and players made waves in the LCS such as LMQ, who went from dominating the NA Challenger Series to representing North America at Worlds. Some Challenger players such as Woolite, Airwaks, and Kez even leveraged the Challenger scene as a launching point to earn starting roles in the LCS. Challenger Teams are even shaking up the LCS with the additions of former Challenger teams, Unicorns of Love and Team 8 into next season.

2015 Considerations

Now that I’ve addressed some of the things that we did in 2014, I wanted to share some of the things that we’re seriously considering for 2015. Auto-Promotion & Auto-Relegation To kick things off, we're considering implementing an auto-promotion process, whereby the team that wins the Challenger Series automatically qualifies for the LCS after each split. On the flip side, the team that places 10th at the end of each split would be auto-relegated into Challenger. There’s a couple of reasons that we’re considering this idea. First, auto-promotion would make winning the Challenger Series more valuable and exciting and ensuring that we see new blood in the LCS. Second, it makes the bottom of LCS more competitive by adding weight to hovering around the bottom ranks of the LCS. This would mean that a team's fate is automatically determined rather than having a chance to fight for a spot like we have currently with the Promotion Tournament. New Format We are considering changing the Challenger Series format to look more like a smaller LCS: a round-robin style tournament taking place over over several weeks. Similar to the LCS, this would give teams the opportunity to play consistent matchups over a clearly-defined schedule. This would increase team’s visibility and provide consistency to drive team rivalries and give players a chance to get to know the teams better from week to week. Importantly, the round-robin format improves the current structure because it better prepares the next generation of teams for the LCS by mimicking the pro league's schedule.We do plan to continue to give plenty of teams the chance to qualify through the Play-In stage but the core format will probably look more like the LCS.

Confirmed Changes for 2015

Here’s a few things that we’re definitely putting into place for next year. Dedicated Game Days To ensure the Challenger Series is able to continue to thrive, we’re dedicating a separate day of the week to Challenger. This allows us to free it from the time constraints of the LCS, improving the schedule for players and viewers alike. It also gives us the opportunity to better serve the Challenger Series audience by presenting a more focused broadcast experience. We believe that Challenger deserves to stand on it’s own, and we’re confident that it will prove strong enough to support its own broadcast to do so. DDoS Prevention One issue that we’ve seen negatively impact the Challenger Series is DDoS attacks. We’ve had success working with several teams on preventing attacks by properly securing their player home connections prior to their matches. Along with preventative measures detailed in our DDoS Prevention Guide, we host pre-match technical check-ins and “tech office hours” to assist teams with DDoS protection, proper Tournament Realm installation, and miscellaneous tech support for any emergent problems. We’ll continue to ramp up our ongoing efforts to provide technical support to the teams, including proactive DDoS protection audits. One Team Ownership Currently, organizations or individuals can own up to two Challenger teams in addition to an LCS team. For next season, Challenger Series team ownership will be restricted to a single organization or owner as well as an LCS Team. If a Challenger Team plays into the LCS though, they would need to change ownership if the owner already owns an existing LCS team. We’re updating these ownership policies to move away from a two team ownership in a League format to avoid potential issues around soft play, conflicts of interest, and loopholes that could potentially allow an organization to remain in the LCS despite relegation. We’re looking to avoids scenarios like two Challenger teams and their parent LCS team ending up in the same Promotion Tournament, creating a serious conflict of interest.

Wrap Up

Let us know what you want to see in a new Challenger format and if you think auto-promotion and auto-relegation rule should be part of the 2015 season. We hope that this post helped give you a some insight into our thinking on the future of the Challenger Series. With all the successful teams and players that have emerged from the Challenger Series, we can’t wait to see what happens next especially at the Expansion Tournament.

65 Comments

Xx1NLLozbCSep 17, 201434 votes

Auto-Promotion & Auto-Relegation

Auto-Promotion is good, it gives a real reward to the best team from the Challenger scene and you guys should implement it.

But Auto-Relegation is complicated. What does it mean, really? The last team from the LCS won't play in the following Split?

My overall suggestion, to keep it similar to what is going on now, would be to Auto-Promote the CS Champions to LCS and have a round robin tournment with 8th, 9th and 10th from LCS plus 2nd and 3rd from CS for 2 LCS spots.

This would ensure that the best teams would get the spots.

Pteor PhDSep 18, 20141 votes

Really like this idea. Round Robins are good for major career deciding tournaments like this. Maybe best of threes instead of best of fives to keep it from taking more than a few days.

CaelestorSep 19, 20144 votes

I agree with auto promotion, but not auto relegation. Every team should have a chance to fight for their spot. A semi-hex system, where each CS team plays each LCS team, is a good relegation tournament format.

http://caelestor.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/how-to-restructure-the-challenger-series/

GrahtmanSep 22, 20144 votes

having auto -promotion without auto-relegation doesn't make sense. You can't add a team without removing one. Having both makes it a more high risk/reward scenario, the players in Challenger will be playing like crazy to get into first so they can get in to the LCS automatically, while the LCS players will be fighting to not be in last so they can stay in the LCS. You'd be fighting for your position all split. It's fair, and requires all players to be at their best.

Pixel BukkakeSep 19, 20143 votes

I like the auto relegation because a team has been given a whole split to show that they belong there and if they don't then new teams need to be given the opportunity to try and last place should be put out because we only wanna see the best competition people can give.

matrinoxSep 21, 20142 votes

How can you understand auto promotion without auto relegation? They are used together. For one to go up, one must go down

GorbacheDec 15, 20141 votes

Auto-promotion and relegation is an awesome system. They use this in many leagues in Europe in sports and it really forces teams to fight until the end of the season and you can never throw a game on purpose because each of them count until the end of the season.

FatedTitanSep 17, 201413 votes

How can you consider auto-relegation when the 8th place team consistently beat the 1st place Challenger team? I'd hold off on this one season and see how 10th place teams fair against 1st place Challengers.

Purple OverlordSep 17, 20148 votes

Team 8 beat COL

SkorbnutSep 17, 20147 votes

Barely...I don't think it was a convincing enough set to justify coL being auto-relegated and T8 taking their spot for free. It went to 5 games.

ExcelBeyondSep 17, 20148 votes

To be fair, Team 8 has two full-time students who weren't even practicing much going into that match. Kinda embarrassing CoL lost to them period.

ouchibouSep 18, 20141 votes

Lol, so how would you handle it, oh wise one? I believe who ever wins the best of 5, is the winner of the series no?

MildturtlSep 18, 20145 votes

He was talking about how T8 didn't exactly convincingly show they automatically deserve the spot. and CoL being automatically dropped, you're pressing a completely different issue that has no relevancy besides the current Challenger Series policy, this discussion is about the future policies being considered.

IchthyologySep 17, 20145 votes

The 8th place team does not consistently beat the 1st place Challenger team. Just this past split the only two teams to lose were CoL and MIL (8th in LCS) to T8 and UoL (1st in challenger) LMQ(1) beat XDG(8) Summer promotion series in s3 MYM (1st) beat Dragonborns (8th)

BalloscarSep 17, 201417 votes

MIL was 6th and UOL was 3rd

Bramble BerrySep 17, 20146 votes

LMQ example is poor because they were a pro team slumming through challenger, any of the bottom 3 teams would've lost to them, not just XDG. They're an exception, not the rule. Millennium was 6th and lost to the third place UoL. At least be knowledgeable of the topic before commenting.

GornothDragnBoneSep 18, 20142 votes

but they talked about more than LMQ? that one example was bad but the rest were perfectly reasonable

Shawn ReardonSep 18, 20142 votes

The reasoning is that it is expanding to 10 teams. Hard to imagine the 10th place LCS team being that much stronger than the 1st place Challenger. The more teams the weaker the bottom will be. Cycling them in and out makes it more interesting for viewers. If they aren't going to be nearly as good you might as well see different teams being beaten up. Plus it gives Challenger hopefuls something to shoot for. A more predetermined path to the LCS is good for the scene.

FatedTitanSep 18, 20142 votes

Then they should give them a 1-0 lead in the series, not give them a free pass into the LCS. If you can't win two games, you don't deserve to be LCS. That's the advantage that should happen.

NovocaneSep 18, 201411 votes

Why are we punishing the NA and EU scenes by banning them from having two teams yet over in Korea we allow professional teams to send two teams under the same company into the Worlds. There needs to be uniformity between all leagues as it stands as a huge advantage and high potential for abuse we hold different parts of the world to different competitive standards.

Its not a secret that Samsung White and Blue are looking to avoid each other in the playoffs and are highly motivated to throw one game in order to do so in groups. Why isn't the World Championship not being held up to the standards imposed upon North America and Europe?

FerelwingSep 24, 20142 votes

Actually,

I think you make an excellent point. I think there should be uniformity in the regions. (Though I'm completely against that silly "normal" blind game they do for tie-breakers). I do not understand why there are rules for one region but completely different rules for others.

jimmy the handSep 17, 20148 votes

For auto-relegation, what if the bottom team of the LCS is better than the top Challenger team? Is the goal to have the best teams in the LCS or to force new blood in to mix things up? Because I guarantee none of these teams want to be bottom of the LCS anyway, I'm not sure how much more motivation this would really give them.

ProusterSep 19, 20143 votes

These mirror my thoughts. If the bottom LCS team is leagues better than the top Challenger team, than it is counter-productive to just auto-swap them, and have the former LCS team dominate Challenger. It sounds like they just want to increase the incentives for getting first in Challenger, in which case they should focus on that rather than trying to automatically punish the last-placed LCS team.

I'm worried about this auto-relegation thing, and I like the idea of a challenger team proving themselves against an LCS team; if they are auto-promoted then they still haven't proven they can compete at an LCS level.

Proximus DSep 17, 20147 votes

In my opinion the biggest obstacle in a more serious challenger series is DDoS. I don't care if you'll do the auto promo or not, but having seen how the EUW CS turned into a big DDoS joke (practically a game of "who can DDoS harder") and Riot's "can't do anything about that"-stance some time ago honestly killed the format for me.

Giving more technical advice is all fine and dandy, but unless Riot says "ok, f* you DDoSers, we'll remake the match" or maybe even play them secretly in advance or something, the Challenger Series is uninteresting for me.

To prevent abuse (losing teams just pulling the plug/DDoSing themselves), it would be mandatory for Riot to being able to save the state of the game at every second. When some team gets DDoSed, continue the same game in private at some other time.

Being able to save and continue ongoing games would also be mandatory to prevent fiascos like one of the CLG.eu(?) games, which crashed after over 1 hour and could not be recovered.

FrozenFireVSep 18, 20144 votes

you have any idea how expensive it is to continuously monitor the state of the game and save it at every second? Riot would need to pipe the entire game image in the background continuously. That's extremely CPU-intensive and simply not worth it. It'd be easier to simply play the games in advance and then rebroadcast them later.

DaigotsuSep 17, 20146 votes

item 2043 dont like auto relegation.

call me NinesSep 17, 20141 votes

love your username :D

ratki11erSep 18, 20145 votes

Auto Relegation is a great idea. Other Pro Sport leagues have the same thing and it creates meaningful games for teams at the bottom of the table late in the season. Its not about having the best 10 teams in the LCS its about creating a meaningful competition for the entire season.

I do think the ownership rules need to be updated and clarified. For instance what does Curse do if CA qualifies for spot 9 or 10? If they can't sell the team for at least the investment they put into it doesn't that make investing in a challenger team a losing proposition for existing LCS team owners?

FerelwingSep 24, 20142 votes

Agreed,

I also want to know why Korea gets to have Samsung White and Samsung Blue but Europe and everywhere else can't.

Meanie40Sep 17, 20144 votes

Football (soccer for Americans) automatically relegates the bottom teams. I have no problem with one automatic relegation/promotion; if the team deserves to be in the LCS, they'll make it back after the next split.

goblue9798Sep 17, 20144 votes

Best-of-five 9th/10th place match during playoffs to determine who gets auto-relegated!

CriticaleyeSep 17, 20143 votes

I understand the auto-relegation... it puts way higher stakes on winning the challenger series and losing out on the LCS, which is better for the viewer. Besides, the only difference between an LCS team and a challenger team isn't necessarily "skill" but synergy (because they get a lot more practice together). That's why LCS teams usually come out on top.

GaamcapSep 17, 20143 votes

So, auto promoting is a great idea, reasons already mentioned above. Would change the promotion tournament though: CS 2nd and 3rd + LCS 8th and 9th playing a double round-robin over 2 days (12 matches) for the remaining spots. And, to avoid an über-full calendar and to give a chance to most Challenger teams as possible, I find a 16-team, 4 group of 4 (like OGN) Challenger Series much better: BO2 (3 pts for 2-0, 1 for 1-1), top 2 qualify to Quarters (BO3), Semi-Finals , 3rd Place match and Finals BO5.

Bramble BerrySep 17, 20143 votes

Auto relegation seems like a poor idea, though stability and Bo1's being gone would be nice. Would like a format that actually promotes the best teams.

anhed0nicSep 21, 20143 votes

I'm strongly opposed to auto relegation. I understand that it would be good to give an (even larger) incentive to win the CS tournaments, but it's entirely possible that all of the LCS teams will be stronger than all of the CS teams in a given split. See Spring split in Europe. I do also think that there are some issues with the current promotion tournament, and I would prefer to see a round-robin type event where the top 3 teams make it (or x if that number changes with the expanded LCS). This would put a greater emphasis on having the highest amount of skill in the LCS, as the power levels of the challenger teams (and potentially LCS teams) can fluctuate between opposition choices and not give the ideal matchups.

Lane BroSep 17, 20142 votes

This is a tough debate since you can't tell if that challenger team is good enough to play in the LCS. After all the way teams win their way into the LCS is rather odd. Sometimes the 3rd place Challenger team has won their way in, while that same season the first place Challenger team hasn't. That is why this is a hard topic. On the other hand it would also force the bottom 3 LCS teams to give it their all "ALL THE TIME". Its a win-loss no matter what the decision in my opinion. So I'll stay as a bystander and will probably be happy with either decision made.

What do you guys think?

DaigustoSphreezeSep 18, 20142 votes

I don't really quite agree with an auto-relegation rule... if a teams skills are beyond those of the challenger series even if last place of LCS, they don't even get the chance to prove they are better then the team they are losing their spot too? Will have to see the rules for 2015 season to make a proper judgement but so far I don't really like this idea.

DPRK Rammus RamSep 20, 20141 votes

As a counter point - if a team is only able to perform in a single BO5 and is unable to perform over a length of time such as the course of a full split, do they really belong in the LCS?

I Am MagicianSep 18, 20142 votes

I believe Auto Relegation is perfectly reasonable. The team that really stinks up the season (last place) should be booted for fresh blood to have a shot of proving themselves. The last place team hanging around because they win 3-2 over a brand new team is really stale. I'd rather that promising Challenger team come on in even if they do even worse because at least I can see new players trying things and failing and not the same repeat offenders. If the bottom LCS team deserves their spot back they can go earn it.

Kees on the CaseSep 19, 20142 votes

Horrible Idea, letting organizations own only one LCS team. In Korea, pretty much every single organization has 2 rosters scrimming against each other all the time, and thus making both better. Pretty sad for the CRS Academy Roster as they cannot stay under Curse, while that would have been great for the level of play in NA LCS. I don't see why it would be a problem if one organization dominates with 2 teams like Samsung did in Korea since Champions Spring.

DPRK Rammus RamSep 20, 20141 votes

That's not the issue. The issue is more closely related to the outcry over SKT T1 S's controversial loss that put them into a tiebreaker with K in their group stage. By eliminating the potential for this sort of apparent king-making, Riot intends to bolster the integrity of the system as a whole.

FerelwingOct 18, 20141 votes

But they aren't changing the format in Korea... Which is sort of the point isn't it? If they are making it only "fair" in NA and EU then it doesn't fix the problem going on in Korea at all.

FerelwingSep 24, 20142 votes

I don't really have an opinion on the relegation nor the promotion.

I do however have a an issue with the differences in regions. I'm not entirely sure why it's ok for some regions to have two pro-teams that get to go to worlds that are owned by the same owner but the same is not for the rest of the regions.

There needs to be fairness in the formats and also, it seems rather unfair for someone to put forth the effort to have two teams if they can only have one in the LCS and one in the Challenger... If both teams are good do they then try to sell the team? Or do they just make their other team stop? That really doesn't make a lot of sense. Why invest in the team if you can't make it pay off later?

Luizao22Sep 18, 20141 votes

I got 1 question about it. If the 10th place team also has a team in Challenger that happens to be top seed in the challenger series (I mean 2nd or 3rd) would they be removed from the Challenger League to let the relegated team play or what would happen in that scenario?

DPRK Rammus RamSep 20, 20141 votes

Rammus I like the Auto-Promotion/Relegation idea contingent on the New Format idea. The current system is relatively prone to holding back some of the better teams (eg Team 8 in the Spring Split) and the introductory round robin will help resolve that issue. Similarly, the round robin format also serves to help synchronize the leagues, allowing the upper league to add validity to the lower. I enjoy the two-tiered environment that these two ideas create in tandem with each other, and look forward to the implications it will have on the level of competition.

GrahtmanSep 22, 20141 votes

I like the auto-relegation/auto-promotion thing. Some don't like the auto-relegation, but it because of the want to fight for their spot but that makes them fight for it the whole split. For instance Evil Geniuses were pretty lack luster through the summer split, and because of it they would be relegated now. I wouldn't like EG being relegated, but it would be a good incentive to have them looking to play even better than the next team they play. No matter what they have to earn their place in the LCS, this makes it a higher risk/reward scenario.

Zaz00Sep 22, 20141 votes

The Auto-promote and relegation is what I was hoping would happen. It is a good way to get new blood into the scene.

I am looking forward to the extra teams next year in the LCS.

big teejSep 29, 20141 votes

I'm not sure I have an opinion on 'auto-promotion' but I feel like auto-relegation isn't the best option. even a team is being consistently, hopelessly outclassed by the rest of the LCS.... who's to say they aren't still better than everyone else? with moving the challenger series to a format more consistent with how the LCS is played, I feel this will create a healthier representation of who the best teams are, but being the 'best' challenger series team does not make it a given that they are better than the 'worst' LCS team.

I don't know if I've made my point as clearly as I'd like... but class starts in a little bit and I need to skidaddle.

tl;dr - LCS teams facing relegation should still have the opportunity to play to keep their jobs.

CrazyGravyTrainSep 30, 20141 votes

Auto Promote/Relegate is fine as long as long as the CS gets the love it deserves. Though I do like the idea of Auto promote while the 8th, 9th and 10th place teams have to play a tournament with the 2nd and 3rd (and 4th) place teams of the CS for the final two spots. Also, a little off subject, but I would like to see the spring split play-offs go away and in its place the top 4 teams from both the NA and EU LCS get invited to a tourney, sort of a Western Worlds. IT could be just for bragging rights and, of course, money which would make the teams want to win that split more more than they currently do.