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What Has TSM Been Doing Wrong?

Croanin·10/17/2015, 2:26:23 AM·3 votes·1,690 views

Not a TSM fanboi since Xpecial left but I mean seriously these guys make it to Worlds literally every Season as either a number 1 or 2 seed and they just get exposed and embarrassed. Asian teams give them no respect since there picked apart so easily. They only made it out of groups once in Season 4 and that's only because there group was a joke since SK's roster was missing, TPA was awful and then there was some other Wildcard Team.

C9 at least puts on a spectacle. S3 they took FNC to 5 games. S4 were the first NA team to beat a Korean team in years which got them to the playoffs where they put on a far better against SSB then TSM did against SSW. And then TSM's EU counterpart FNC have always been a consistent global threat. They didn't make it out of groups in Season 4 yes, but they were in the freakin Group of Death pitted against OMG, SSB and LMQ, no easy Wildcard team to pick points off of.

I mean it's just kind of sad to see a team so consistently make it to Worlds only to look like they don't belong there period. So what could it be? Do they need a top laner that can actually sniff out a turret dive? No offense buy internationally Dyrus couldn't see a gank coming to save his life. Then their jungle presence internationally has always been abysmal. Whether it's TheOddOne, Amazing or Santorin. But is it simply the junglers fault? I mean Amazing was considered good before he went to TSM and is considered good again now that he's on Origen.

I also think they need another shot caller. I personally don't think your best player by a wide margin should be your shot caller. Any other ideas?

16 Comments

PoisonedTea10/17/2015, 11:21:04 AM3 votes

Two things.

One is they kept dead weight on the team or can't motivate the team. Wildturtle has not improved even know he was meant too. Dyrus not improving and being unmotivated as well. Dyrus is a really strong player but TSM seems to have many issues in motivation.

Two They had the same gameplan for 5 years. They play the game of letting the strong mid laner carry and dictate the game. It worked pretty well with regi as he was a fairly strong shotcaller and dominate personalty, but with bjergsen it has not shown the same results. Bjergson is clearly a dominate player but does not have the shotcalling to back it up. One more thing is that this style has a weakness it is too relent on one person(see what happened to C9).

OttoVBismarck10/17/2015, 3:05:46 AM3 votes

You're absoulutely right about Bjerg not being the Shotcaller TSM deserves, but I'd go further and look at locodoco as a bad tactician. The fact that Dyrus was an island throughout most of his tenure brought TSM to their knees. TSM needs to look at three things when they work up their new roster (Hopefully with BunnyFuFu!)

Pick a Top that has carry potential. He doesn't have to carry every game, but if he can play Yasuo, Olaf, etc, he'll fill a role that TSM left painfully open.
Shift Shotcalling to someone new. (you've already looked at that in the OP)
Most importantly, Find a new "Thing". TSM's played in a variety of ways over the last few years, but if TSM wants to be the best NA team, they need to come up with new picks, new strats. There's a saying about EU players doing just that, but if NA wants to stop being the weakest reason, they need to stop being a step behind. Priority needs to be set on innovation in the metagame, instead of using the strats that are getting wins elsewhere. If they reinvent themselves, they might miss playoffs, but that's a significantly better option than lumbering along as a copycat has-been. Unicorns of Love were trounced by Fnatic multiple times in the summer split, but they made new picks, tried new strats. Fnatic more or less played the same game they've been playing, and doing it very well. TSM might not make worlds if they do so, but the critical component is that they are stepping out of Korea's shadow. Actually, I'm going to make a thread about this.

SpartenA799110/17/2015, 6:09:32 AM1 votes

They lost Dyrus. ;_;

RyzeRework10/17/2015, 6:46:34 AM1 votes

Ssw was also Wayyy stronger then ssb and beat them faster and harder then tsm. Regardless they put all resources into one area most teams have 4 potential carries and then a really good support. Tsm doesn't allow dyrus to play any high damanage champions and when they do they fuck him over with a lane swap, you know 4 people are going to be attacking dyrus and yet noone wards noone does shit. And when tsm is ahead or that one game against og when they had a full item jinx that did like 2 aas then ran is the worst ever sense tsm pressured wild turtle to play safe or be replaces tsm has been bad

C9 Scott Free 10/17/2015, 6:39:34 PM1 votes

They ignore top lane. They don't have strong shotcalling. Their ad has positioning issues. They don't have am actual good coach for international competition. Amazing was not considered good but rather a good Lee Sin

The Bíg Ticket10/17/2015, 7:27:37 PM1 votes

TSM actually was in a group with Royal Club, the finalist. Not saying their group was hard and they sure benefitted alot from SK having to play without Svenskeren in their first match (with Svenskeren SK beat TSM) but their group wasn't THAT easy. Cloud 9 lost 1-2 vs FNC, so they didn't take them to 5 games because the quarterfinals in S3 were played in a best of 3.

Mat7itan10/17/2015, 2:37:15 AM1 votes

{quoted} They only made it out of groups once in Season 4

They made it to semifinals in season 1.

As for what they are doing wrong. I think that they are putting way too many resources mid. I mean look at how easily they won the game when they actually helped dyrus.

iamleburk10/18/2015, 12:53:57 AM1 votes

First, their roster is old and not world class. Even bjergsen is barely world class. Second, they are in NA. NA gives waaaay too little competition for these players to practice against, and also gives those teams very few people to fill out a roster. Korea lost the majority of its teams last year with the korean exodus... 6 months later and they still dominate, because they can pull new players right out of solo queue and do the same thing. Our soloqueue is nowhere near as talented, and it really hurts us as a region. Another thing is the macro play; Korean teams have insane shotcalling and understanding of the macro game. The only team who understands this in NA are CLG (for mid game) and C9 (for late game). Macro play can make up for an individuals skill disadvantage, thats why you see CLG and C9 do ok. TSM tho, they have always been trying to win off of snowballing bjerg. That isn't macro, and against teams who can handle bjerg and are much better than him.. it simply doesnt work.

Also, mid focused team cant do shit in this top-focus meta, unless that mid is leblanc. And we saw Bjerg's leblanc.. it wasn't pretty

TurquoiseYoshi10/17/2015, 3:15:39 AM1 votes

Normally, they just take their standard strategies to Worlds, the ones they've used a kajillion times, and then get surprised by a weird pick and lose. They need to actually bring in some interesting stuff to compete with JG Hec, ADC Kennen, Veigar, Rengo, and the unbenched Kench.