6 years...

Codpond·Oct 14, 2016·5 votes·1,068 views

I've watched and waited for 6 years. I fell into the hype train this year, which is my own fault. I mean all the Korean teams made it out of groups. I just get left with this feeling of hopelessness. Why should I even keep watching at this point? Now remember I want to see NA win; I am from California, USA. I respect the other teams. I think the whole na vs. eu thing is dumb. At this point we can all just sit back and say none of that matters. At its core the argument is not over who is better, it is over who is worse. That is a terrible feeling, knowing no matter how good you are in your region, your just a speed bump to Korea? I remember the casters saying how good TSM was at closing out games and how average game times were impressive out of that squad. While closing out a game is an important attribute, I think it is a greater commentary on how na as a region falls short on playing a game out on the loosing side. I never like to surrender, but I work full time, have a 2 year old daughter and a wife (they drain time too man...). A loosing game can sometimes warrant a surrender if we are getting trashed. Sounds legit, but I know I should keep playing it out to get better. From my experience, when a few kills goes the other way people start pointing fingers and the salt factory opens for business. It's ridiculous and it only gets worse each year. I can not help but wonder if this is how competitive scrims happen. I mean there will not be the salt, but do they play it out and fight it out with 100% or do they just surrender and get in as many scrims as possible? I do not know.
For 6 years I have watched and waited for NA to win. The level of play was more even is this worlds than ever before, I know because I've seen them all. That is awesome, except the level of execution for all non-Korean teams is bewildering. They throw out regions into chaos. TSM did not look like TSM, CLG was outplayed as well as C9. For me the raw talent of TSM is great, but the coordination and team play was abysmal. I do not understand. As for the hype, I felt like I was told there was a hot pool party with topless women. However when I got there i find out its a 110 F day, there is a kitty pool in the corner and sun stroked grannies all around with EMTs putting leads on their exposed torso's. Yea all the parts of the story are there, I was not lied to, but it is not at all what I had expected or was lead to believe. Honestly I do not see NA having a better shot than this one for a while, or until the game looses popularity and good players up and leave. I can tell you one thing, I will not be watching league anymore. It is not because I think any region sucks or blah blah, I just know the outcome. Korea is killing the scene because they are just that much better. I feel embarrassed for my teams and I feel embarrassed for believing the hype. I bet a lot of us feel that way too. I feel riot should be worried because I brought like 20 people into this game and we are all disenchanted. Hopefully for them we are just an isolated case.

6 years... and NA has not won worlds. Feels bad.

22 Comments

Linna ExcelOct 14, 20165 votes

As a miami dolphins fan I can say this: get used to waiting.

FlahertyOct 14, 20163 votes

At least we shove their shit in in real sports..

DealthOct 14, 20162 votes

CLG beat SKT like a week ago. You have to remember that Korea trains a LOT. They aren't just naturally good.

Also asians just have different principles in life. Americans tend to be cocky and egotistical and settle for "good enough" which is why their team play usually sucks. Asians are the opposite, they stick to one craft and study it 24/7. This is usually why the best artists and philosophers in the world are usually Asian.

reaperteaserOct 14, 20162 votes

the thing about korean being so good at league is that video games are part of their culture its almost expected from the youth there. As for americans (until recently) video games like league were considered nerdy and uncool, and i can imagine alot of people still think that. so korea gets a bigger enthusiastic player base which in turn generates more high skilled players

WukongMainOct 14, 20161 votes

At the end of the day, Does it really matter who wins? Even if a NA team takes the cup, Everything will remain the same.

FlahertyOct 14, 20161 votes

Like with literally any sport is doesn't really matter in general because it doesn't really affect the world but to people who are passionate about the game or just like watching sports/e-sports it does matter. It's like when you play video games against that one friend who is stupidly better than you and you can never beat, it doesn't really matter since it's a game but it's still disheartening to deal with.

WukongMainOct 14, 20161 votes

i guess i can understand how that would be disheartening to deal with. But at the same time at least NA will always have someone better than them to compare their play to :')

The OasisOct 14, 20161 votes

I guess I should start watching LCK instead of NA LCS so that when worlds comes around I have some investment into the teams that make it far. Watching C9 and TSM get to worlds just to get squashed, then watching a bunch of teams I barely know is boring.

GeminiRuneOct 14, 20161 votes

It's definitely worth a try. Personally I've been all over the place with viewing during the regular season and every region seems to have its own form of domestic ups and downs. It definitely helps as an esports enthusiast to know what kind of teams are going into the few international events of the year. I agree though that it does kind of suck that NA continues to translate their domestic performance to international and thus collapse the easiest of the main 5

Dr PoroOct 14, 20161 votes

I think NA performed better than EU this year, though. Especially during week 1 of worlds, NA teams were all at a shared #1 seed while EU were all last seed. If it wasn't for H2K, it would've been embarrassing for EU. Now, H2K did well during week 2 and will probably get into the smi finals, but unless H2K can beat SSG or atleast take away 1 game, I'd say that NA still performed better overall, with a second seed and 2 third seeds (both of which very close to the 2nd seed) vs a first seed and 2 well-deserved fourth seeds.

Ale non è maleOct 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=n2tHlhhP,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-14T13:30:40.179+0000)

I think NA performed better than EU this year, though. Especially during week 1 of worlds, NA teams were all at a shared #1 seed while EU were all last seed.

Something something 2015 Worlds Week 1 It is pointless if at the end of the day in group stage two teams shit the bed and 1 barley manage to scrap by, and NA teams honestly just showed their true value in Week 2, while Week 1 generally has historically had more fluke results for a number of different reason NA problem is that they trashtalk the other while believing being better than the other, which cause the massive disappointment and a feeling of discomfort that lower their morale and lead to have even less drive to improve To think that TSM was THAT good before Worlds to be serious candidates to win it all was honestly crazy, they should have been treated as a pretender as best, not as a contender...after all their improvement was due to Hauntzer performing vs NA tops (while vs international tops at IEM wasn't relly equally good) and on Biofrost keeping up at international level with the best of them (and he didn't perform badly, but the difference between NA supports and international supports is BIG) to get things going as a team with no weaknesses

EU had the same number of teams going out of groups, and Splyce results wasn't as disappointing as TSM/CLG considering the lack of internatioanl experience while playing in the group of death, if H2k confirms its top 5 place in the Worlds ranking as strength winning vs ANX EU will have definitively performed better than NA this year too

Dr PoroOct 15, 20161 votes

I think you're being too harsh on NA. TSM and CLG had a good shot to get through group stage. They lost too many games in week 2 but overall, they still performed better than G2 and Splyce.

Yes, NA has been arrogant with the predictions of TSM, but so have I with G2. I really thought that G2 was the best team EU ever had when sven and mithy joined the team (my favourite players from Worlds 2015). But G2 failed hard. They had some great early-games but their baron attempts were generally awful.

You can't say that H2K > C9 if they beat ANX. ANX is most likely a much easier opponent than SSG. We'll have to wait and see for the quarter finals so see how H2K does against SSG. If they can win 1 game, then yes, they have surpassed C9, but we're not that far yet.

Splyce, one of my favourite teams this year, indeed performed about as expected. No one expected them to win more than 1 game really. However, the fact that a team like Splyce made it to Worlds says a lot about the quality of EU this year. With the fall of Origen, there were really only 2 good teams in EU and then there were Splyce and UOL both being mediocre but they were the third best of our region.

I may sound like I'm defending NA and against EU, but I'm a huge EU fan, I just think that this NA vs EU attitude has to stop and we need to support eachother and see the good in eachother, maybe even learn from eachother. It's the only way to every beat Korea ;)

Ale non è maleOct 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=n2tHlhhP,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-15T14:01:25.039+0000)

I think you're being too harsh on NA. TSM and CLG had a good shot to get through group stage. They lost too many games in week 2 but overall, they still performed better than G2 and Splyce.

CLG didn't get through a group stage with a wildcard and an EU team that was ULTRA terrible. That's not exclusable by any means, the fact they went 3-3 doesn't change the fact that their performance must be judged even worse than Splyce, who quite honestly wasn't supposed to get out of groups. They were just straight out very bad, obviously better than G2, but they should take their fair share of blame

TSM can claim some bad luck in draw, but in the end they choked out and lost the game that mattered vs their direct rivals , so I don't see how their performance can be seen as satisfying

If you got to rank the Western teams by performance, weighted through the draw luck and expectations it is going to be something like

H2K >>>>>> >C9> TSM>Splyce >CLG >>>>>>>G2

I don't honestly see how NA should be placed above EU IF H2k get to semi, given how they both have two underperforming team (and heck, Splyce went as good as expectations were, underperforming is not the correct term, more like they performed ok but were not up to par to their group), with both region advancing one team to KO stage and with EU placing a their team in top 5 of overall strength rankings if they get to semi (because they are surely better than C9, and would ahve directly beaten both EDG and ANX at that point)

Dr PoroOct 16, 20161 votes

"splyce did well because they were expected to do even worse". Well, there is a reason why those expectations are low. Splyce was the lowest rated team other than the wild cards.

CLG worse than Splyce? I'm pretty sure that in a matchup, CLG will easily beat splyce. G2 won vs Splyce, CLG won vs G2. It's not because G2 performed terribly that every victory against them means nothing. Maybe there's a reason for G2 poor performance. Maybe it's because ANX and CLG weren't actually as bad as predicted. G2 had their closest games against ROX tigers, actually. Maybe they didn't prepare well enough against CLG and ANX, but I just want to emphasize that ANX didn't just get through with pure luck. They're a pretty damn good team for a Wild Card Region, to be rated around the levels of NA, EU or LMS expectations.

What I'm saying is that EU isn't >>> NA yet, but I hope that H2K actually beats SSG and at that point, you can proudly say that we are >>>> NA again this year. However, if H2K goes 0-3 vs SSG or if they lose vs ANX, I'd say that they're about the same lvl as NA, with NA rated slightly higher because their other 2 teams weren't as bad. Again, Splyce didn't underperform, but they were already the lowest ranked team from any main region, on the level of a wild card region, which is really sad considering how strong the top 3 EU teams were last year.

Ale non è maleOct 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=n2tHlhhP,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-16T14:00:47.066+0000)

"splyce did well because they were expected to do even worse". Well, there is a reason why those expectations are low. Splyce was the lowest rated team other than the wild cards.

Nope, Splyce did well compared to their expectations because they showed decent performance in the group of death vs 3 of the best 8 teams in the Worlds tournament according to the rankings pre-Worlds - and at Worlds they pretty much confirmed the rankings except TSM which is still nothing to scoff about -

CLG worse than Splyce? I'm pretty sure that in a matchup, CLG will easily beat splyce. G2 won vs Splyce, CLG won vs G2. It's not because G2 performed terribly that every victory against them means nothing. Maybe there's a reason for G2 poor performance. Maybe it's because ANX and CLG weren't actually as bad as predicted. G2 had their closest games against ROX tigers, actually. Maybe they didn't prepare well enough against CLG and ANX, but I just want to emphasize that ANX didn't just get through with pure luck. They're a pretty damn good team for a Wild Card Region, to be rated around the levels of NA, EU or LMS expectations.

YES, CLG played worse than Splyce. G2 played bad on their own terms, not because other teams played so well to force them to crash and burn, even ROX was shaky in group stage and they were actually fighting toe to toe with them till Smeb Kennen ult play, their bad play vs the teams in the group was their own inconsistency fault

I'm pretty sure this Worlds Spyce has at least 50/50 chance or better with this Worlds CLG, and CLG underperformed a ton letting theirselves being beaten by a freaking wildcard team - and that is not disrepescting ANX, but major team regions can't afford to be eliminated vs wildcard in any circumstance, being eliminated means underperforming hard -in any circumstance becuase these teams have lesser infrastructure and come from a region with a smaller elite player pool -

Stop buying NA propaganda or mentality, CLG performance is abysmal having had them the easiest group of all in hindsight

What I'm saying is that EU isn't >>> NA yet, but I hope that H2K actually beats SSG and at that point, you can proudly say that we are >>>> NA again this year. However, if H2K goes 0-3 vs SSG or if they lose vs ANX, I'd say that they're about the same lvl as NA, with NA rated slightly higher because their other 2 teams weren't as bad. Again, Splyce didn't underperform, but they were already the lowest ranked team from any main region, on the level of a wild card region, which is really sad considering how strong the top 3 EU teams were last year.

If they get 3-0 by SSG they are still at worst the 5th best team at Worlds, thus EU would have still beaten NA, even though by a small margin. If they lose vs ANX, of course it would mean NA would have performed better than EU, even though NA would still end up being beaten by wildcards and ended up 4th out of 6 so it would not have been a good performance in perspective

Splyce was rated very low because people were overhyping other teams, but definitively they have not played so poor, so stop talking about crap like they were on level of an usual wildcard team. They didn't performe worse than many teams from major regions, with LMS being frankly bad and other Western teams being terrible, the 1-5 standing is misleading because it is the result of strong competition, not bad performances, while the 3-3 of CLG is the result of weak competition, not strong performance (and the same can be partially said for C9 record tbh, even though I still think they were the 2nd best Western team at this World cause at least they were mentally strong)

Dr PoroOct 17, 20161 votes

Now that H2K dominated ANX convincingly, I'm happy to say that H2K is by far the best performing team of the west seeing how much trouble CLG had against this team. Still, G2 and Splyce are 2 of the 3 least performing teams of worlds (the other one being a wild card). For G2, this was a major dissapointment as it was expected to be one of the stronger teams. Splyce did better than expected, even objectively better than G2 performed considering the opponents they faced, but I wouldn't rate their performance higher than CLG's but I'll admit that it is debatable and I can understand why you'd rate them higher. Anyways, they're definitely close and TSM was > Splyce and CLG > G2, so with H2K > C9 now, there's not a clear say in which region performed best.

Either way, I don't think we should go too deep into a war between NA and EU. The real opponents to beat are the Koreans.

Ale non è maleOct 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=n2tHlhhP,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-17T21:10:49.741+0000)

Now that H2K dominated ANX convincingly, I'm happy to say that H2K is by far the best performing team of the west seeing how much trouble CLG had against this team.

Huh? Regardless of the quarter reuslts H2k would have still being the team tat performed by far the best, what ANX series had to said us was if they were really a top 4-5 team in these Worlds. No other Western team could have challenged that position after C9 loss

Anyways, they're definitely close and TSM was > Splyce and CLG > G2, so with H2K > C9 now, **there's not a clear say in which region performed best. ** Yeah, there is. You are kinda forgetting that H2k and C9 were the two Western team that performed the best so, like I said above, it is

H2K >>>>>>>>C9> TSM>Splyce >CLG >>>>>>>G2

Even if you swap the teams in the middle around, it is still clear that the Eu had the best and the worst team by far, and Splyace is around the rest of NA teams, and Na as region has no way to say that they achieved such a feature with one of their teams that can even compare to what h2k has done, which is placed as #1/2 non Korean team at Worlds given how they had 1 team going out of group and two teams underperforming badly

Either way, I don't think we should go too deep into a war between NA and EU

There is no a real war between NA and Eu if someone look objectively at their result, Eu has beaten soundly Na 5 out of 6 years (and S4 was a fluke caused by a complete imposion of Eu teams there, with Alliance being Kabum'd, SK going 0-3 week 1 cause Sven ban and 2-1 the week later in the group with World finalists and Fnatic being in group of death and losing a very close game while that roster was at the end of their cycle and was going to breakdown), with NA not being capable to beat Eu not even when EU had their 2nd worst performance ever with a team completely choking and another not being unlucky to end up playing with such powerhouses at their first international tournament ever

Tha NA vs Eu rivalry is pushed just by propaganda that various outlats have to push to hype up the interest about NA and about West in general, and is pushed by some delusional fan that everytime try to fuel up (being then answered by Eu fanboys), because all in all there shouldn't really even been talks of a rivalry

anonymous119Oct 14, 20161 votes

Too much hype, what happened this year, isn't healthy for a team at all. It's fantastic when a team goes into a match with a mind set of, "we can win this." It isn't great when you go into a match saying things like, "this is my only chance in my professional career to achieve my life long dream."

TSM specifically looked extraordinarily out of their comfort zone in their matches and c9 did as well to a lesser extent. With clg they always play amazing when there's little to no pressure/expectations, week 1, and when they actually have a chance at succeeding they get crushed by the pressure, week 2.

NA fans need to calm down before major events.

III BAKURYU III Oct 14, 20161 votes

Once every NA team has 5 Korean players they will have a chance until we will just have to get rekt-shrekt and pekt each year.

Kal Vas FlamOct 14, 20161 votes

Try being a Cubs fan. Or a Braves fan for that matter. I watched the Braves win their division 14 years straight to only win 1 WS from it all.

Hauling AsheOct 17, 20161 votes

Just look at it like I do: Being worse at professional videogames just means NA has fewer fat chair warriors with no social skills. [slayer-jinx-catface]