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Dyrus is not the problem, but the rest of TSM is.

Mat7itan·5/11/2015, 3:25:59 PM·3 votes·2,643 views

Dyrus is not the problem. Yeah he gives up a lot of kills because he is super aggressive, but he is kind of forced to. He never gets any help from anyone else on the team, and because of this he has to do everything he can just to keep up. In all of the games I've seen TSM play the games that they won the easiest were games where Dyrus did not get shut down. Every other game Dyrus was getting camped and struggling in lane and even if TSM won they did not have an easy time doing so. This shows that when given the opportunity Dyrus can and will carry.

If TSM is not going to lane swap then it is a given that Santorin is going to have to help the bot lane. Wildturtle and especially Lustboy are great players, but they do not do well in a 2v2. I think this is where a lot of the mid lane and bot lane focus comes from. TSMs bot lane struggles in 2v2s so they need help with those, and if Bjergsen gets ahead he will carry. The rest of TSM is the problem. So what can TSM do to fix the problem with top lane?

First obviously with the way Dyrus plays he is going to be camped so why not instead of immediately going mid after a few camps Santorin go top to counter the early gank which would possibly help Dyrus get ahead. Until Dyrus gets behind the way he plays allows him to get ahead of the enemy top laner on his own. So by counter ganking the obvious gank early and getting Dyrus even further ahead (to a point where he is not in as much danger to giving up kills) he will be able to carry and win his lane on his own, and then Santorin (or Lustboy if he is roaming) can help elsewhere.

Second Bjergsen is best on play making champions (champions like Ahri, Zed, and LeBlanc). So why is he not playing thsese kinds of champions? Why is he playing champions like Cho (or at MSI ziggs) who need help to get ahead early? If TSM were to put Bjergsen on a champion that he can win lane on his own (or with minimal jungle intervention)and then go on to carry lategame he would not need the constant presence of Santorin to win. Even if he is going to be unable to get solo kills and dominate lane alone he has some of the cs scores of a mid laner at 10 minutes and often out farms the enemy mid laner (even on champions like Cho) so he keeps himself ahead and keeps pressure in the mid lane even when Santorin isn't there. I think that TSM should wait to help get Bjergsen super far ahead because he keeps himself ahead on his own, and instead focus at first on getting Dyrus and the bot lane ahead.

Third the bottom lane of TSM is not good in a 2v2. Overall this is not a huge problem because TSM plays lane swaps so well. But if the opposing team sees the lane swap coming and then match it then the bot lane remains in a 2v2. Still this is not a huge problem because there is a lot of ways to help them in a 2v2. Santorin can camp them and Dyrus has tp. Honestly the bot lane of TSM suffers when Dyrus is shut down because he really can't help them so if Santorin is off elsewhere and the gank comes in TSMs bot lane is screwed. Until Bjergsen gets ahead he really can't roam to help the bot lane which typically leaves Santorin and an underfed Dyrus as their only help.

Bjergsen has shown he does not need help to get ahead so instead of focusing his lane TSM should focus elsewhere. Dyrus has shown that when he gets ahead he can and will carry, so TSM needs to help him get ahead and prevent the obvious ganks (If they warded top at all it would be a miracle and Santorin might not need to help Dyrus). The bot lane struggles in 2v2s, but if Dyrus gets ahead he can help bot which would allow Santorin to help Bjergsen (if Bjergsen is not already ahead or in a position to help bot). TSM needs to put less focus on mid (Bjergsen will get ahead early on his own and can wait for the jungle pressure. He doesn't need immediate ganks) and they need to put more focus on top so Dyrus can help the rest of the team during laning phase and team fights.

12 Comments

SinatraZ5/11/2015, 4:04:59 PM3 votes

Yeah its not Dyrus' fault honestly. Yea he get ganked A LOT and lose most of the 1v1 fights but I would blame Santorin mostly.

I don't know if TSM coach told him to NEVER help top or he just doesn't like helping Dyrus but man their strategy is not working. They have to change it.

KazaLyn Shao5/11/2015, 7:35:02 PM2 votes

It's the entire lineup that has to go. Dyrus isn't entirely at fault, but he isn't exempt either. Knowing his jungler doesn't spend any time top side, Dyrus should be playing his lane fairly safe. He doesn't. That is still bad decision making. He didn't even make the best of a bad situation. Arguably he made it worse. Change the whole damn team.

Lstrike5/13/2015, 6:53:39 AM1 votes

I also agree that its not entirely Dyrus' fault that TSM did horrible at MSI. But his lane-warding is just horrible. I also found that his positioning in teamfights is also not that good. Even in the games that they win (at Katowice), his positioning is not in sync with his teammates.

But TSM has really misplaced priorities. Maybe Santorin is thinking like "Dyrus does better in a 1v2 gank than a 2v2 countergank, so I can be helping other lanes" and it is sorta true, but you have to make something happen in other lanes when Dyrus is getting killed top. If both are not happening, TSM will be at a severe disadvantage in early game dragon fights and mid game in general.

But its just 1 tournament. They did win a international tournament just before this with the same strategy. We'll see at the Summer Split.

IcyPepper5/13/2015, 6:57:04 AM1 votes

I think Dyrus purposely sets up a campsite at his lane by being so aggressive to relieve pressure from his team.

Top lane is the opposite lane from dragon, and if Dyrus is camped then that gives time for his jungler to get scuttlebug whenever the enemy jungler is up there and allows 'em to set up dragon.

But I don't watch LCS all that much, but having your top lane of all lanes camped is a blessing if your team (top included) takes advantage of it. Once people group up for teamfights and whatnot, they're more likely to forget about the under-fed top laner split-pushing top and taking towers.

TurquoiseYoshi5/13/2015, 7:33:57 PM1 votes

My main question is: How did Santorin stay behind in camps despite literally doing nothing to help his lanes? Multiple times did this happen, and I kinda wish that we could have a choice on which player to view, just so we could see what was going on in these situations.

Facy5/13/2015, 7:50:19 PM1 votes

U r all mostly wrong holy sh*t... have u not seen Dyrus Vlog?

Santorin is not to blame because the solo lanes have to ask for jungle help to get help, dyrus said he did not communicate things that were a major factor... then he overextended and were out of position aswell on top of his bad warding. Dyrus himself said that it was his fault alone for not being able to communicate correct ingame and miss judged some situations on top of it. (Which makes honestly perfectly sense, there is a lot a jungler has to do throughout the game and if his lanes are unable to communicate then hes the last person to get any blame). Dyrus indeed died way too often and seeing the replays he could have avoided at least 50% of it by simply beeing a better player.

Bjerg is not on carrys anymore cuz hes getting outperformed by most Worldclass midlaners, last time he tried to solo win his lane he got pretty much stomped by PoE..... Bjerg can easily stomp NA LCS but for the worldclass mids its simply not enough. Mids in MSI also made a lot more plays over the entire map while bjerg sit mid farming and basicly doing nothing.

pyroHedge5/13/2015, 10:13:47 PM1 votes

I have to agree that Dyrus is not the reason TSM is failing. I mentioned this elsewhere, but last split he had both the highest GPM and CS/min of any top laner. For comparison, Dyrus had 7.0 cs/min last split versus 6.6 for Balls, 6.35 for Impact, and a mere 5.69 for Zion Spartan. And while all the top laners really struggled in CS due to the lane swaps, TSM was certainly among those who used swaps most often, not least.

The ability for Dyrus to CS effectively (and the willingness to do so) really showed itself in one of the games when Dyrus got killed, TP'd back, then got killed again. One of the castors was like "wow, Dyrus is just getting crushed out there." And then another, out of shock, declared, "And yet he's still somehow up 10 cs." And that's pretty much how it goes. Dyrus may be losing his lane 0-2, but with his CS advantage it's really only 0-1, and in exchange he's given TSM 3-4 opportunities where the jungler shows top. That's a trade that pretty much any team would take.

Moreover, the champion pool that Dyrus excels at also tend to be relevant even if he is a bit behind. And he's often "feeding" junglers or top laners while TSM is often able to convert the man advantage into kills for their carries. In the LCS it's a straight up advantage.

The problem at MSI was that other teams were so good at warding and defending objectives that TSM couldn't turn that man advantage into anything.

Just to reinforce the absurd negatively towards Dyrus, here's what they wrote about TSM for MSI: "Top lane often gets shut out of the game completely." Shut out completely? Because apparently best cs and best GPM is "shut out completely." Really, you gotta respect Dyrus for not complaining about all this garbage. He doesn't deserve it.

Nucleophilic atk5/13/2015, 10:14:30 PM1 votes

Everytime I watch them play I think, "Wow, this Dyrus dude sucks tits."

Soul Resonance5/13/2015, 11:38:29 PM1 votes

To be fair the main issue with TSM is they are too reliant on one person, Bjergsen

Now I am not blaming him but the fact is Santorin and Lustboy both make huge efforts to assure that Bjergsen gets to where he needs to assure he can carry the team even though with his skill level he can easily get there by himself - Weirdly enough this has been getting to him in his play because he has started to become reliant on them coming to gank his lane rather than him just going 1v1 and wrecking his opponents like he used to.

Personally considering how badly Dyrus gets beaten up in the top lane and yet he can still get into team fights as a major threat kinda shows me that not only is he possibly still one of the best top laners in the LCS but also that his own team mates know this and are not worried...they know he will handle himself.

I think TSM just needs to stop focus on one person and just play their roles as they should because they literally have some of the best players in the world in each role and if they just played those roles like they should they would be a high class team.

xJLx MCHammer5/14/2015, 3:22:20 AM1 votes

First of all OP, you made a huge POST defending 1 player and accusing 4 others. Second of all, you are also using data FROM a small amount of games. Do you not consider all the other games in 2014-2015 LCS? Like you took 5 games from MSI and made a conclusion.

Do I think Dyrus is the problem? No. Quite the opposite, I think it's EVERYONE on TSM. They just aren't on the level on Korean players. When you look at Fnatic who did well against SKT T1, it's not the same team like 2 years ago. 3 of their members were Korean Players.