80 Comments
Rigged.
LOL You're that leaker that leaked the
yasuo skin. Is the next skin gonna be a wukong skin?
He leaked other stuff, but the Yasuo skin was found on the PBE so its not really leaking
He released the info a few weeks ago, although it didn't reveal anything about the skin itself
Riot do not want a Samsung Blue vs Samsung White grand finals, or for that matter 3 Korean teams in top 4.
now i see why they decided to put group stage in different countries instead of just holding the entire thing in korea...so they could use the visa thing as an excuse. ggwp.
Considering your position you should include a "in my opinion" or "I was told" prior to your statement. Its fine if this is just your opinion, but since you have a reputation as being a source for real leaks, not specifying about this statement leaves its true intention unknown. But beyond which ever this is (opinion or leak) you know that some people (correctly or not) will think and say "this is the leak guy, he said its rigged, therefore its a leak from within Riot that its rigged." As I think is clear, this can cause confusion and possible problems due to something as simple and innocent as an opinion. That is unless your intention is to use your reputation to portray your opinion as fact and possible blow it out of proportion (which quite frankly is stooping pretty low.)
Definitely.
Stop with the BS about putting team reps on for the draw, just do it live.
Have Riot employees in front of the cameras conducting the draw.
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rofl i like how you said "there is literally NO reason" when the article's whole purpose is to highlight the reasons why it is logistically not worth it. >_< rofl
They give a reason not to fly out the teams. Fair enough. However there is pretty much no reason not to make a live draw (like i said) with CASTERS/RIOT MEMBERS/NICK ALLEN doing the draw, live, on stream. You don't need to fly out anyone.
That's not what the article says. It says that it's not realistic to wait until one week before Worlds to find out where ALL SIXTEEN teams will be playing during the Group Stage. With a live draw, they will do a drawing of the Groups live and then have about a week to arrange visas and travel plans for all sixteen teams to go to one of the two Group Stage locations. Instead, they did a private draw ahead of time so that as (for example) teams like Samsung Blue clinch the #1 seed, they Riot can start preparing the travel visas, since they will know which location Blue will be going to for Group Stage.
"The only downside would be the possibility of teams throwing games to get placed into a specific group. I wouldn't expect teams to do this, but it is a possibility."
Obviously you don't have any experience with any competitive event at all. If teams have advanced information that can tell them which brackets are easier, of course they will take advantage of it. Doing a live draw and thus giving teams an incentive to fix their ending seed pretty much throws the legitimacy of the World Championships out the window. You don't even have to look that far to see match fixing. LMQ potentially threw their last LCS match to drop their position down to 2nd place where they would be in an arguably easier bracket than they would be if they had secured 1st place. Riot can't afford to risk the legitimacy of the entire tournament by hosting a little side show like a live group draw. Wait until the 2015 season when they synchronize all of the regional tournaments for your live group draw.
but none of the reasons they gave make sense. you don't need to know your seeding/bracket to start getting visa stuff going. the only thing that i can see is the issue of knowing how the seeding is arranged and trying to "fix" a match.. but.. if both teams are trying to do that then its obvious, and you just DQ them. and you can avoid that entirely by just waiting until after quals are over. again the visa thing is a non-issue, all the teams that even MIGHT go, should have already started the visa process by now.
Isn't it held in multiple countries? Getting visas started and booking flights for every possible seeding doesn't seem nontrivial to me. Match fixing is also really nonobvious; to take a relatively recent example, Shiphtur may very well have thrown Coast's relegation match (no, I don't actually believe this, but it's an undeniable possibility). He sure played poorly, and he was likely aware he'd end up on a better team if they got relegated. The only way we'd ever find out is if he was really stupid and actually said something about intending to play sub-optimally. Both teams have an incentive to play poorly in the situation Riot fears, just not so poorly that Riot has solid evidence; given the number of throws in LCS, that leaves a lot of wiggle room.
inb4 top NA team doesn't have a Korean team in groups...
well, one group is without koreans, thats for sure. the only scenario where people wouldnt shit on riot is when the #1 chinese team group would get no koreans, only then id put my money that it is indeed 100% random and honest. if either EU or NA gets that non korean group everybody has the right to be sceptical. this is an understandable reasoning however
Top 2 NA teams with 2 Wilcard Invitational, #1 EU team with 3 Koreans. THE DREAM, IT'S SO CLOSE I CAN ALMOST SEE IT
------------What if i told you that-------------
Riot wants to put through a popular chinese team to get billions of viewers? China has 15 servers. One server is as populated as euw and they have 15 of them. The amount of money theyll get from one ch team is more than kr eu and na all together.
SORRY RIOT FOR REVEALING YOUR PLAN
the way t5he worlds playoff picture seeding should look and i think its fair for everyone based off past results and this years performances in this summer split based off rankings and all stars group 1. ogn korea 1, eu lcs 2, lpl china 2, na lcs 3 group 2. lpl china 1, na lcs 2, eu lcs 3, gpl 2 group 3. eu lcs 1, iw 1, ogn korea 2, lpl china 3 group 4. na lcs 1, gpl 1, iw 2, ogn korea 3 reasoning is ogn korea deserves a relatively easier side bracket is because na lcs three team is liely to be pretty bad and i made up for sticking eu two in a tough match with lpl two because of all stars eu is simply not on their game whatsoever so either theyre region got alot better or is really bad with inflated numbers lpl china 2 could determine. to make up for this the eu lcs one got relatively easier bracket by only getting ogn korea two as a difficult matchup and lpl china isnt much better than curse or solomid so they should have no issue advancing, as well as to reward korea for their sheer dominance in general so i leaned toward slightly easier brackets for ogn. na lcs although they looked lie the worst region in this split definitely showed up at all stars and iem and looked remarkable so they got a slightly easier bracket like ogn got. for gpl i gave them somewhat a fighting chance although they looked awful as a region since seaosn two taipei but i know taipei is better than curse solomid roccat sk gaming the third lpl team and i know lpl one is possibly top three in the world right now so i thought bout sticking them in a korea free group. personally i thoink this is the best group formula that riot should adopt for the spirit of competition and i even thought bout sticking lpl nas and eu together so there will be no argument on ewhich region stands to challenge korea
Rigged.
They should allow independent journalist/reporters to attend. At least make it less sketchy. You can preach competitive integrity but you must also practice it . ![]()
Just a thought. Even if it is done privately, what if you still made a show out of the group stage reveal. Think of how March Madness does it. It's not a live draw, but you take it group by group, discussing matchups and stats. That way, it's still a fun show for all viewers.
Please, don't just have a 10 minute "aftershow" where you throw a big graphic up there with all the groups. That's not fun.
THIS ^
at first glance, this idea sounds great, but i don't think riot can do this if their goal is "competitive integrity".
if people found out what seeding/bracket would be easier, would they not try to get in that group? (ex: NA 2nd seed will be in group 2. Group 2 will also have no Koreans in it while seed 1 will be in group 1 with korean #1 seed) .
wouldn't group 2 be a better group to aim for rather than group 1? its impossible to do a live show or tell everyone the seeding for the tournament before playoffs. really sucks to be honest.
Not really. The seeding and everything would be done behind closed doors. It would just be a reveal show. After all playoffs are done and all that's left is Worlds. Just have a 30-60 minute show that goes through every group, revealing it, discussing it, etc. Players would all know before hand so they could obtain the necessary paperwork. It would just be for the fans.
Jesus guys. Riot is a good company that isn't out to rig it. What would be the benefit for them to do that? The way they did it is the best way they determined and we'll we trust them with our game so why don't u just trust them?
Riot shouldn't have even announced this. Should have just done it. People will question no matter what the outcome is. This just gave everyone a place to complain.
Competitive Integrity hasn't been Riots top priority in the past... The situations regarding Gambit in past LCS splits are a prime example of that. Why should we believe it will be now?
Oh the Gambit well just never runs dry. Fans are too salty to realize that Gambit isn't trash because of Riot's scheduling. Gambit is trash because they are trash. Once Alex Ich left, it was over.
Nope, because Gambit went 4-0 in Superweek. Try again troll.
So did EG, but you don't see people complaining about their visa issues. Joke's on you, idiot.
Because EG had no visa issues, you autistic people are so fun to argue with.
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Are you saying you're not in favor of that?
Kappa
It wouldn't be something to be proud of as a region.
Wouldn't there be just over a week to get visas organized, regardless of when the draw is? All of the teams would know which group they're seeded into immediately after their Regionals end, so until the 7th there wouldn't be any way of knowing which specific players to organize visas for.
Only for the Chinese teams. They can go ahead and book everyone else the second they know their placement (NA can be booked by the 31st, giving them an extra week, EU can be booked after this weekend, a full 3 weeks sooner). If necessary, they could double book for China.
Just record it and upload a VOD ffs
If the whole drawing will be done in one session why not just stream it to Riot Games? It's the exact same thing except there would be a camera in the corner.
Because if Riot publicly draws NOW, teams will examine the groups and strategically throw matches to get into easier groups. If NA #1 and NA #2 go into groups with Korean teams, but NA #3 does not, I think we know where all of NA would rather be: Third. Even if it's not true, there would still be accusations that a team threw a match because they didn't want to play in Group X.
There should be a simple cryptographic solution to solve this. It would unfortunately not as transparent to the average viewer to do so but it does squash any arguments that groups are rigged. I'm only a masters student, I'm by no means an expert, but I think this would relatively robust once you find an acceptable 3rd party:
- Construct a message, and encrypt it. Publish the result and the public key.
- After it's published, have a 3rd party (community vote? the top comment on the published key? bitcoin block chain? stock market?) create a tail string.
- Concatenate the (unencrypted) message with the tail string and hash that.
- Use the digest as a seed for a RNG to generate the groups.
- When groups are safe to be revealed, publish the key to decrypt the private key. Anyone can then verify that groups were seeded randomly
Just needs independent verification that the draw took place and that the results drawn were the ones seen, but this could help with the latter part. You would still need independent verification to ensure that the groups were actually drawn randomly, and not arbitrarily decided.
Just do a live draw on camera. Not with all teams present. Problem solved.
- Put all the seeds in a hat. Name them along the lines of "KR 1st" and "NA 3rd" regardless of who we know has qualified.
- Conduct a recorded private drawing and randomize the groups. Totally Random! Include climactic pauses for full effect!
- Plenty of time to "analyse" the matchups and teams as they fill their respective seed slots.
- Once all slots fill up, do your fancy "reveal show" and show the recording of the private drawing.
- Everybody wins!
Problem with recorded private drawing is, you can always make 50 of them, and post the one with the results you need.
What if you get 1 person representing each team thats not a player? or someone representing each region. The point being that the draft is live so everyone can see for themselves it wasnt rigged.
So, my big question here is:
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Since it's being referred to as a 'random draw' will the same region have a chance at having two of the same teams in their region group stage? I feel this should be avoided if at all possible. Accidentally having all three teams from one region in one group stage because a random draw caused it, would really suck for that region. Don't get me wrong, you could have two go or one go, but there goes the possibility of having all three represent. Especially when they played all year around as it is.
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Am I misunderstanding this entirely? Or is it strictly seeded by region? I saw posts below interpreting it as "all teams from this region being seeded into a particular group stage." Clarification for this please.