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RIP Cloud 9 and Fnatic - Refresh with actual thoughts because I assumed all would just agree with me

PoeticJumpshot ·9/26/2017, 8:15:18 PM·1 votes·772 views

NA/EU is chronically over rated and under achieving. Why wouldn't you expect them to lose to the best 2nd seeds they could have faced? I think Lyon could have easily beaten WE if they didn't make 1 bad call in that first game. Jensen can become a monster but I don't think he will be able to abuse Lyon's midlaner even with all the help he gets, simply because Lyon's carries really didn't die a lot, even against the best team in all of these groups they were not being pushed around. So if C9 pours all their focus into top/mid again and white lotus just free farms bot lane it's going to be a coinflip every time. I think it can be a long series, and over time lyon is going to have to help against impact, and then C9 will have it's chance to get Jensen going. But if they don't they will lose. C9 hasn't played a team as good as lyon since the last time they played immortals or tsm in the summer split. They've shown a proclivity to not properly respect their opponents and it has gotten them into trouble. Wouldn't be surprised to see them trying to climb out of an 0-2 hole because of it and running out of time to catch up.

AS for EU - they get no respect until they earn it. The last run they had in worlds was a complete fluke bolstered by the easiest path to the semi finals we've ever seen. Expecting a 3 seed eu team to lose against regional winner shouldn't feel all that outlandish.

Meanwhile looking at young generation, they played in a soft group and didn't show any depth outside of having some of the best meta picks handed to them. World elite will not let that happen and cleanly stamp them out. China's three seed is probably better than NA/EU's one seed this year.

Look at all the analysts and who they ranked in the top 20 players in world. They might get the order incorrect but usually the names they put up there belong there, and there aren't many players from eu or na on it. I'd even go as far to say the few on there don't even belong outside of bjerg and he's over rated on that list imo. He should be barely slotted into the 16-20 range. He can make plays for his team when they are behind but the fact they are behind and need him to do that so often against NA teams is not good for world's expectations. For him to really be number 10, he's going to have to carry them into at least a strong semi final run, because that's what the others on the list in past have done when ranked that highly, and I don't think he can do that.

17 Comments

IncrediPhiLL9/26/2017, 8:23:01 PM5 votes

You must think the moon landing is fake or something.

GeminiRune9/27/2017, 1:07:14 AM3 votes

Let me get this straight. Your point solely runs on history while the opposition uses the literal present. Yeah that's totally fair (so was the Moon Landing). So...

  • Lyon beats C9 because of the way they played out their four games in comparison to C9's history - not even their own group games - and the last time they faced decent opponents to your opinion.

  • Hong Kong Attitude beats Fnatic because EU doesn't get respect until they do and you don't want to give them any credit whereas you give no proof of point to HKA at all: that's just open spite against EU.

Not only is it biased; that's showing you really don't have a real opinion on the match. This is what some fans fail to establish: they'll warp timelines and reputations to make the most unreasonably organized phase of a point or counterpoint. So let me give you my insight.

C9 vs LYN is the match I wish hadn't needed to happen. While I wish for Lyon to come out victorious after as much time as they've had being representatives for their region, it's not as clear cut as it looks even with formidable performances against Team WE. C9 made prey on weaker opponents yes but having the wins under their belt - one being a comeback - gives them more momentum than what you are insinuating. If anything beats them this time around, it's definitely ego after the kind of tensions that their group produced. On the other side of the coin, Lyon has shown that they have a stronger awareness of when to fight but not where to lock down the win unless it's clear or the fight is won. Genuinely they have the capability to make some noise but to say C9 is outright losing given your claims is just blind. I mean...were you one of the people who hyped Gambit? I know I personally hoped that super team syndrome wouldn't get them.

Now for FNC vs HKA (that team you didn't even bother to mention), I kind of scoff to this:

AS for EU - they get no respect until they earn it. The last run they had in worlds was a complete fluke bolstered by the easiest path to the semi finals we've ever seen. Expecting a 3 seed eu team to lose against regional winner shouldn't feel all that outlandish.

That is your statement for FNC losing...first of all, they weren't even involved in that Worlds outcome; moon landing. Second of all they won their regional qualifier just like HKA; also moon landing. They are both #3 Seeds from their regions but hey you never put anything for HKA. Both teams out of the play-in groups have shown they have formidable early game momentum if they acquire it. You can't easily play heads or tails on either team because of their groups being quite identical. If you want to draw back to FNC's playoff fallout, why not draw back to HKA's nonexistent playoffs? Every negative variable you can produce out of these last few days does have a rebuttal. Screw the history!

YG vs WE: YG was in the same group as FNC and clearly adapted in the 4 games played; more than what can be said for any other team in the play in stage including WE. Nonetheless, WE has shown that they are evidently a wildcard in what type of game they play (do not get my use of the term "wildcard" mixed up). I still tip the match in their favor because of sheer adaptation they have done for themselves. So you say "soft group" for YG because they were with KLG? Then what was Rampage in Group D? Or GMB in Group A? Track record only gets your analysis but so far.

And THIS is what I mean by analysis! And while mines may not be perfect, at least I'm not outright shooting teams in the foot because I hold onto history that can be remembered. Your last bit on the player rankings I could care less about; it's mostly more blatant dislike for NA and EU related things which it's already clear these are your opinions and I don't like them. Also the moon landing might be fake. The End. Cue Reaction. [sg-ahri-1]

Mazariamonti9/26/2017, 9:10:21 PM3 votes

'TSM' is chronically overrated and underachieving. C9 usually does what people expect or slightly better. The only time they've ever underperformed was waaaaay back in season 3 when they had that wonky system that just threw a team cold into a Bo3 quarter final. Can they lose this Bo5? Sure. But possibility =/= probability. The most probable results are C9 continuing where they left off, dominating lesser competition and most likely not losing more than a single game at worst.

SciFi Scrivener9/27/2017, 6:01:44 PM2 votes

even against the best team in all of these groups they were not being pushed around

That's where you make your mistake. C9 is the best team in the play in stage, even over WE and FNC. C9 out plays Lyon in every lane, I predict a 3-0 sweep. WE will need 4 or 5 games to get pass YG, and that is IF they can get pass YG. FNC will go 5 against HKA, the winner is a toss up. ONE will beat FB, more evidence that C9 was the top of the stage.

xJLx MCHammer9/27/2017, 12:17:24 AM2 votes

C9 tends to do the best at worlds from all NA teams. TSM tends to do goo in minor international tournaments

ForFoxSakes9/27/2017, 2:57:04 AM2 votes

C9 is hot and cold. Likely to beat Lyon but can still derp. At least the games will be on earlier so we'll be able to watch them. Doubt C9 will make it out of worlds group this year though, only got lucky with easy draws last year. TSM still the best NA hope

HKA got screwed because they dropped the ball to get 2nd. If they were 1st they'd make it out of play ins no problem, but now it'll be pretty rough vs FNC.

Meanwhile FB will have the easiest time in of all the play in groups vs ONE where HKA should have been.

WE have it pretty easy vs YG too

BigBellBrute9/28/2017, 6:16:10 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=PoeticJumpshot ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=a0sccNlf,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-26T20:15:18.660+0000)

NA/EU is chronically over rated and under achieving. Why wouldn't you expect them to lose to the best 2nd seeds they could have faced? I think Lyon could have easily beaten WE if they didn't make 1 bad call in that first game. Jensen can become a monster but I don't think he will be able to abuse Lyon's midlaner even with all the help he gets, simply because Lyon's carries really didn't die a lot, even against the best team in all of these groups they were not being pushed around. So if C9 pours all their focus into top/mid again and white lotus just free farms bot lane it's going to be a coinflip every time. I think it can be a long series, and over time lyon is going to have to help against impact, and then C9 will have it's chance to get Jensen going. But if they don't they will lose. C9 hasn't played a team as good as lyon since the last time they played immortals or tsm in the summer split. They've shown a proclivity to not properly respect their opponents and it has gotten them into trouble. Wouldn't be surprised to see them trying to climb out of an 0-2 hole because of it and running out of time to catch up.

AS for EU - they get no respect until they earn it. The last run they had in worlds was a complete fluke bolstered by the easiest path to the semi finals we've ever seen. Expecting a 3 seed eu team to lose against regional winner shouldn't feel all that outlandish.

Meanwhile looking at young generation, they played in a soft group and didn't show any depth outside of having some of the best meta picks handed to them. World elite will not let that happen and cleanly stamp them out. China's three seed is probably better than NA/EU's one seed this year.

Look at all the analysts and who they ranked in the top 20 players in world. They might get the order incorrect but usually the names they put up there belong there, and there aren't many players from eu or na on it. I'd even go as far to say the few on there don't even belong outside of bjerg and he's over rated on that list imo. He should be barely slotted into the 16-20 range. He can make plays for his team when they are behind but the fact they are behind and need him to do that so often against NA teams is not good for world's expectations. For him to really be number 10, he's going to have to carry them into at least a strong semi final run, because that's what the others on the list in past have done when ranked that highly, and I don't think he can do that.

Rip your prediction swami. C9 3 zip.

Ailiekpai9/28/2017, 12:39:21 PM2 votes

How'd those predictions work out for you?

SciFi Scrivener9/28/2017, 2:56:51 PM2 votes

What's the chances PoeticJumpshot comes back to admit when they are wrong?

MysterQ9/26/2017, 9:03:10 PM1 votes

I want Lyon to win :(.... but I would prefer C9 over TSM. Oh man the conflict of interests. I guess I should be happy of either side winning =\

PoeticJumpshot 10/2/2017, 4:21:01 AM1 votes

I was wrong. Though a play-in is hardly cause for celebration i was wrong. Hopefully they will be able to surpass groups. Personally I think I have only 1 team from na/eu going based on divisions. I was wrong about groups, but to think any eu/na team is equal to lpl/lck is a whole other story.

BabyNaix9/28/2017, 3:38:34 PM1 votes

They both won 3-0 so the yare still on top:D