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The End of Origen?

Shadowatom··1 votes·1,967 views
Origen GM, staffers leave org, cite poor management

Does this spell the end of Origen? Or is it simply a bump in the road? Needless to say this will more than likely deter at least some possible replacements with the news that much of this seems to lead back to the management of the club and how much stress/drama it has caused for members within the organization. Is this spelling the end of Origen's current LCS spot or is it a new beginning to a new rise? Only time can tell, but we can theorize now! :)

10 Comments

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Just a bump in the road most likely. It'd be much more worrying if they were loosing the Azubu, Ozone and Alienware sponsorships.

But in all honesty, this added to Forg1ven saying he was basically "removed" from the team on Twitter make me wonder what on Earth is happening inside of the organization.

B00B001 votes

a bump i think. to be honest I'm not sure whats happening but it sounds like from tweets and who has left some citing poor management, well thats down to the general manager, peke himself hired a general manager to you know MANAGE so that somewhat in part down to him and pike's communication, and then the ''rot'' simply infests.

however it was the social media team(s) so perhaps they where not doing there jobs properly.

on the other note xpeke could (and probably is) having a very hard time right now having to step in as an ADC, Forgiven....he's a conundrum tbh and his tweets said he was fed up of reckless and even getting ''lucky'' and they ar not better than him, sounds like a tantrum.

basically i dunno, i think things will be fine.

Shadowatom1 votes

The management isn't purely the GM. A GM's job consists of bringing together the players, coach, and analyst (generally, more may apply), he wouldn't be in charge of everything on the team, this would usually be up to the owner and various other high level management positions within the organization. I think xPeke is definitely having a difficult time due to him needing to suddenly become and ADC, but now that they've gotten Toaster, maybe he can focus on purely running the org rather than spliting time between practice and management.

It is also interesting to note that Origen also switched out their head coach multiple times (I think it was 5 times within this season alone or perhaps it was the year) and did so just recently, apparently stating that EU coaches are pretty bad (not quote on quote, but something along those lines iirc). I think the club has been going through some hard times this split and Forgiven was just another headache waiting to happen (which is why H2k dropped him). Curious to see how things go from here with so much hitting the fan.

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

Its hard to tell because most of the business side of arguments and discussions are behind closed doors as they should be but every so often people clean their "dirty laundry" in front of everyone but not all of it: so we the viewers only get a part of the "arguments and discussions".
ORIGEN is what Xpeke's first ever team that he created so its bound to have a few bumps in the road every so often.
Lets say Xpeke breaks up the team. For the face side Origen went into the LCS and in their first ever split made it to the EU LCS FINALS came 1 game shy of winning it 3-2, then made it to WORLDS 5-1 in Group stage and defeated The Flash Wolves 3-1 in the first round and they eventually lost to SKT 3-0 in the second round. NOT BAD for their 1ST year.

However like I said it's Xpeke's first ever team, he created it so it could be successful without him, but once the team started to suck he stepped back in to make them great again but without the same results.
What I see happening is the team needs to rebuild with the RIGHT PLAYERS. Young hungry Challenger players who don't have any experience in the LCS.
A. The team won't start a new with players that already have bad habits kinda like a old dog with bad habits from their previous owner(Team).
B. The new players will start off hungry and ready to learn, instead of being tired in their 3-4 year already in the LCS. Picking up Forgiven sounded good but once you realize that Origen is still a young team and they picked up an old vet like Forgiven you can see why they would have problems.
C. Trail by Fire. I don't think Xpeke will just give up and give away his LCS spot to another team because its difficult but he needs to realize that his team can't win every game and he can't jump in for a player because his team is losing. The players need to realize that and learn or they won't grow from their mistakes( Power of Evil).

Overall I think they should rebuild. Soaz and Amazing are old veterans and if their not cool with maybe a split or two of losing for a better future then they should be released to another team that can help them further their careers.
POE and HYBRID should stay and learn from their mistakes and grow as a team through the Wins and the Loses. (unless they go 0-60) then they should be talked to.

Nice post and Have a Good One

Miror B1 votes

For me, OG will always remain the beatles of EU. While other teams had consistent success and lasted for far longer than they did (FNC being EU's equivalent of the rolling stones), terrible decisions both managerial and game-wise are killing them off scarily fast. I'll go through a list of all the main problems in 2016, to try and shed light on my view of this:

-The loss of Zven/Mithy, acquisition of Forgiven: Possibly the biggest reason for their thoroughly abysmal summer split, and without question the worst thing that has happened to them since they came into EU. While losing their botlane was "sorta" out of their control, who they replaced them with was a horrible/baffling decision. Forgiven came off a spring-split h2k team which many (including myself) had finishing 2nd in EU, but collapsed back to earth with people citing his attitude/"leadership problems" as the result of that (basically, many people consider him one of those people who will berate everyone for their mistakes but won't do anything to help correct them and won't open up about his own mistakes). Because of this, he was released from h2k with the assumption that he would take the summer off/"retire". The fact they chose to take him instead of aggressively pursuing any of the top-tier challenger ADC's (Krislund/hans sama being the "top two" ) has gone on to haunt them horribly, and is one of the big causes for their summer so far.

-The "Coaching Carousel": Fun Fact: since the beginning of the spring split, only one team across all the major regions (NA/EU/LCK/LPL) has used five different coaches. If you guessed that it would be OG (with Hazel/xpeke/bali/nico/aranae), you would be right. Typically, coaches are brought in to bring both a style and a "goal" for teams to adapt to. Because OG has gone through so many of them, the team has often had to rely on their own skill/strategies to win games instead of utilizing a "team style". While a good team can theoretically win without a coach, being forced to use multiple ones in both splits has to be a massive burden.

-The massive lack of shotcalling: Want to know another thing that OG is leading all major regions in right now? Longest game time of teams. With an average gametime of 43mins (and three different players breaking the world CS record against them), many can look at this and the previous two points and come to the simple conclusion that they lack a reliable shotcaller now. Teams with good shotcalling can usually end games without being forced to stall. The fact OG is stalling hard shows a clear lack of direction by them, which is a massive concern going forward.

Where I see them at the end of the split: Being an avid challenger watcher/fan of misfits, it's almost certain that they will take an LCS spot in the promotion tournament only because they look to be unstoppable right now. The big question becomes: who will end up forfeiting their spot to them. Both Roccat (yet another team fighting to stay out of 10th) and OG have looked relatively close in skill-level, so we could very well see both of these teams fighting all 5 games on the final day of the tournament.

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

I agree with your post and comments.
Origen does have some of the longest games in the LCS but the game time doesn't bother me. You can say if your games lost longer than 35 min than your a bad team but it can also be implied that the team could play a more methodical manner. Last year at Worlds Origen had around 40-48 mins a game in group stage and Knockout stage against Flash Wolves.
However this split I would say Origen plays not to win but not to lose instead so their games are long mainly due to them not wanting to lose and hesitating for 1 fight to win or lose around the 40+ min Mark.

Also doesn't help that Xpeke seems like he doesn't know what to do anymore. Like a different person played in his body in the past. I have never seen a LCS pro get caught out so much and miss every Ashe ult known to mankind.

Like you said OG's bot lane left a few weeks before the split started so they didn't have time to find reasonable replacements and I'm not a fan of Forgiven.

Overall I would rebuild if I was in Xpeke's shoes. If you want to play Xpeke then play win or lose you have to make a choice you can't keep stepping in for certain players if the team is doing bad after 1 game or 2 or it will hurt the player that your replacing to feel like 1 mistake they can be replaced or benched and that isn't a good idea as they will feel like its a lose-lose situation.

Miror B1 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZbEXkOdX,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-07-15T18:45:00.082+0000) You can say if your games lost longer than 35 min than your a bad team but it can also be implied that the team could play a more methodical manner.

Also doesn't help that Xpeke seems like he doesn't know what to do anymore. Like you said OG's bot lane left a few weeks before the split started so they didn't have time to find reasonable replacements and I'm not a fan of Forgiven.

Overall I would rebuild if I was in Xpeke's shoes.

(Just decided to quote the parts I disagree with)

While you "could" say that OG has long gametimes because they're methodical, is that really the case with them? OG's actual objective "control" has been horrendus this split (surrendered the most dragons and baron, and the 2nd most towers), so unlike worlds in which there was deliberate reasoning behind it, you can very easily point at their lack of a good shotcaller for the lengthy times (as a team with a clear direction/"go" button won't deliberately stall out games due to gold leads being less powerful as the game goes on).

Xpeke is weird for me, as in a way he's like the EU version of Hai only that he went in a different direction. Back in the offseason, Hai sorta knew that he couldn't keep playing with C9 forever (as he already fought multiple health issues, and would be harder to replace the longer he stayed). Because of this, he ran off to join the challenger team and help the organization in other ways (while also remaining a helpful "tool" should the main team need him). Peke was in the same boat in this past offseason, but instead of moving on he decided to stay and has arguably hurt his team more than he's helped them. He's last in KDA among adc's and first in deaths (despite playing 7 fewer games than the next-highest), and also has the lowest kill participation among all who have started more than 4 games. If they had done what I suggested and picked up a challenger player like hans sama/krislund at the beginning of the season, we could've very easily seen them be in 4th place right now. Instead...

Assuming OG doesn't get relegated (which is still a pretty big 50/50 for me), a rebuild could potentially be nice. At the very least they have to get more subs (specifically on ADC, mid, and potentially top if the soaz rumors are true), as PoE's small champion pool remains a liability and the madness with this ADC shuffle has to end.

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

Soaz rumors ?

Yeah they could be relegated and if they do it will be a sucker punch as everything went wrong for them: players leaving Kevin Durant style- new players not working out with personal and self problems(Forgiven) it just sucks to see a good core and an up and coming Team that had alot of growth and potential be gone for half a year or longer if they don't get back for the summer split next year.

If I worded it wrong with OG long games with them being methodical I meant for Worlds not for this split. I agree with you on this split with the team not knowing what to do. I only meant that not every team that has long games don't know what to do is all I meant.

Miror B1 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZbEXkOdX,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-15T21:56:16.691+0000)

Soaz rumors ?

Yeah they could be relegated and if they do it will be a sucker punch as everything went wrong for them: players leaving Kevin Durant style- new players not working out with personal and self problems(Forgiven) it just sucks to see a good core and an up and coming Team that had alot of growth and potential be gone for half a year or longer if they don't get back for the summer split next year.

If I worded it wrong with OG long games with them being methodical I meant for Worlds not for this split. I agree with you on this split with the team not knowing what to do. I only meant that not every team that has long games don't know what to do is all I meant.

Back when Zven/Mithy left and at around the time Forgiven was benched, there were "rumors" that soaz may leave the team as well due to not being as motivated (the fact they chose to add Zhergoth, a top lane sub, only making these rumors continue).

If they get relegated, then it'll probably just kill the organization entirely. Soaz will probably retire due to the aformentioned reason above, Amazing will probably join FNC just to "spite" xpeke, and hybrid/poe would almost assuredly join s04 due to being massive improvements above their current players. There'll also be a massive "what if" looming over EU for the rest of time, as the combination of soaz/amazing/xpeke/zven/mithy was probably the 2nd greatest lineup EU has put out period (being behind the huni/reignover/febi/rekkles/yellostar lineup that had the flawless regular season).

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

Soaz might be and rightfully be just worn down and tired been playing for 3 years, I'm sure that has to do with him not being motivated. Which sucks cause he's always on a good enough team to make it to WORLDS each and every year. Same can be said about Amazing but he just doesn't seem like a player that isn't motivated to win: can always see how he acts after each game if he wins he over acts the handshakes also when he loses he doesn't even get out of his chair(which can be rude).

Like you said about OG with the " what if"!

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