Competitive Ruling: Counter Logic Gaming

Riot·Jan 6, 2015·0 votes·65,478 views

Organization: Counter Logic Gaming Region: North America Date of Ruling: January 6, 2015 Subject: Penalty; Violation of LCS Ruleset

Background

We were notified of allegations that Counter Logic Gaming’s (CLG) management violated the LCS anti-tampering/poaching provision by attempting to recruit Darshan “ZionSpartan” Upadhyaya during October of last year. ZionSpartan was at the time still under contract with Team Dignitas. Attempting to recruit LCS Team Members that are still under contract with other LCS organizations is a serious offense, and we began a thorough investigation to verify these allegations. Following the publication of our recent competitive ruling regarding CLG poaching William “Scarra” Li, CLG’s management voluntarily came forward to disclose the nature of ZionSpartan’s recruitment to LCS officials. As a result of our investigation and with CLG’s cooperation, we’ve discovered the following: During the 2014 NA LCS Summer Playoffs in early September, Counter Logic Gaming team member Yiliang “Doublelift” Peng had a conversation with ZionSpartan regarding his off-season plans and encouraged him to join CLG. ZionSpartan was still under contract with Dignitas at the time. Conversations between Doublelift and ZionSpartan regarding a potential move to CLG in the off-season continued off-and-on over the next several weeks. After ZionSpartan’s contract with Dignitas expired, he approached CLG management to negotiate a contract with the team for this coming season and was soon afterwards signed to the CLG roster.

Relevant Rules

10.2.12 No Poaching or Tampering.

“No Team Member or Affiliate of a team may solicit, lure, or make an offer of employment to any Team Member who is signed to any LCS team, nor encourage any such Team Member to breach or otherwise terminate a contract with said LCS team. Violations of this rule shall be subject to penalties, at the discretion of LCS officials.”

Ruling

CLG and Yiliang “Doublelift” Peng have violated rule 10.2.12 of the LCS ruleset and will be subject to penalties.

Competition Penalties

Yiliang “Doublelift” Peng is:

Fined $2,500

Counter Logic Gaming is:

Fined $2,000
Restricted from fielding Darshan “ZionSpartan” Upadhyaya as a player or coach for ‘the first week of the 2015 LCS Spring Split

Context

CLG’s management voluntarily came forward to disclose information regarding ZionSpartan’s recruitment to CLG. Doublelift, ZionSpartan, and CLG management all spoke separately with LCS officials and all gave similar accounts of the series of events which led to ZionSpartan’s recruitment to CLG.

We considered CLG’s, ZionSpartan’s, and Doublelift’s cooperation with us on this matter to be significant when weighing what the appropriate penalty in this case should be, which is one reason why this penalty differs from the one we levied in our recent ruling regarding CLG’s poaching of Scarra. That said, this ruling is still meant to convey that poaching is completely unacceptable in the LCS.

Our goal in restricting CLG from being able to field ZionSpartan is to limit the value of an ill-gotten acquisition. Our goal with penalties is to help avoid similar situations in the future, and a fine alone will not effectively deter determined organizations from attempting to poach players.

Teams are responsible for their players. Doublelift claims he did not notify CLG management of his efforts to recruit ZionSpartan while he was still under contract with Dignitas. Individual players who violate rules are accountable for their actions, but LCS teams are held responsible for the actions of their players and are required to arm them with knowledge of the LCS ruleset and monitor their behavior to ensure they are not violating them.

144 Comments

SavagePenetratorJan 6, 2015133 votes

Personally, I have a huge problem with this ridiculous rule. A player should be able to discus his or her career options whether that be current or future. Communication has to take place in order to receive offers, and express interest in certain teams. Rules like this will hurt the growth of League of Legends as an esport. It just decreases competitiveness of contracts.

PieRulerJan 6, 20156 votes

In the middle of the playoffs? They fucked up big time there.

QuoteJan 6, 201510 votes

But its not like Zion left the team mid way, He finished the season with his team, After season was over its nice to have an option.

BrazulJan 6, 201574 votes

If a team is interested in a player they have to approach the organization instead of the player themselves. It's pretty simple and not that hard to follow.

DharwinJan 6, 201517 votes

This needs more upvotes. The rules let players talk about their futures with other organizations, as long as their current organization is aware/part of the talks. So basically, you can't go behind your current employer's back.

thunderingiceJan 6, 201547 votes

Actually it says that the player can't talk to anyone. The person who owns their contract can. In other words, putting out feelers in an unofficial fashion is punishable. What doublelift and zionspartan did would be fine in most industries, including sports. The contracts LCS players are forced to sign to participate give quite a bit of power to both riot and the team owners at the expense of the players. The part where a player who is unhappy with his team can't talk to anyone who might give him a way out until his contract is gone and his team can put pressure on him to commit is not healthy for the players. It also means that when somebody is trying to explore options discreetly.... guess what... it's not discreet because the team owner gets to know and the player doesn't get to be involved. And do you really believe that the team owner is going to represent the player fairly when there is conflict with the player? The issue here isn't about how easy to follow the rule is. It's about the way this rule bans normal actions for players and creates an unhealthy environment for players that desire to see what other employment options are available to them. I understand that Riot was trying to protect team owners, and that's commendable, but their methods created a bad situation for players. Honestly, without being a clg fan, I can't help but think that the real villain in the latest set of rulings against them are rules Riot created. Punishing people for trying to expand their horizons is not a commendable action.

Fat of the LandJan 9, 20155 votes

You asked, so here -- http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q109

Do a google search for 'Tampering in pro sports' and you'll find dozens of examples.

Players have been fined for merely suggesting off-handedly to third parties (such as the media) that players on other teams might join with them in the future.

NunchucklesJan 7, 201513 votes

You must not follow any other sport like Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc.. In ALL sports it is strictly AGAINST THE RULES to talk to another player that is currently under contract with another team. Any type of tampering is held under great scrutiny.

PamelmJan 7, 20158 votes

Actually no its not. It is against the rules to offer them an official position while they are under contract. But in NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc etc etc, players can still talk to each other and be like "Oh yeah I am looking for a new team for next year." "Oh really? Well we will prolly have your position open next year." As long as the job isnt officially offered it is fine to discuss it

Fat of the LandJan 8, 20153 votes

During the 2014 NA LCS Summer Playoffs in early September, Counter Logic Gaming team member Yiliang “Doublelift” Peng had a conversation with ZionSpartan regarding his off-season plans and encouraged him to join CLG. ZionSpartan was still under contract with Dignitas at the time."

This is not just casual talk but an active recruiting pitch and would be against the rules in any pro sport.

EleshakaiJan 10, 20155 votes

Since we don't know the actual words, we can't state that. We know how it is being spun, and of course Riot is going to phrase it in a way that makes it sound wilful.

I imagine it was probably more casual than the wording in the ruling suggests. But we'll never know.

CaspathaGhostJan 7, 20154 votes

So I guess Lebron, Wade, and Bosh never brought up forming a big 3 in Miami until the end of the season. I doubt it, they were probably discussing this way before the end of the season and could of been discussing it a year before. I bet during those times they spent on the American National Team it was brought up.

WhimmJan 7, 20156 votes

You aren't** thinking **are you. Imagine a small circle of top teams where they are allowed poaching other players mid season. Now if player A convinces player B to join Team A and leave Team B. What incentive would player B have to win the next match he has against Team A while still on Team B? Now imagine doing this with 3 or 4 other players on Team B's roster.

DougsHugsNTugsJan 6, 201528 votes

Thanks rito, ruling as painfully stupid as the report system itself. Kuddos

calforraiJan 6, 201524 votes

pretty hilarious ruling here. pro players should never ask each other "hey what are you up to" after season ended.

PriloJan 6, 20157 votes

Why not? Why shouldn't they? No ones breaking a contract. No ones suggesting that a contract be broken. Only suggesting that when a contract expires, they think about signing a different contract rather than resigning the previous one. No illegal action. Riot is just being absurd.

thunderingiceJan 6, 201512 votes

He was pointing out the ridiculousness of the ruling.

FrigeoJan 6, 20152 votes

It needs a "/s" or "Kappa", sarcasm just fails completely in text.

MrRgrsJan 6, 20157 votes

Only for the oblivious.

EternıtyJan 6, 201517 votes

I fucking hate that Riot seems to think that the competitive players cannot have a say in their own future. If the PLAYER wants to talk to someone about his future that should be 100% his choice and Riot should not be able to ban or fine someone just for talking like ffs

ErdqoosjHoJan 7, 20153 votes

you don't seem to understand the sense of the rule. Again: If CLG is interested in a Player who is signed for a different team, the only thing they have to do is to ask that team before they go into negotiation with the player. Can't be that hard!

This rule is important for the stability of the league, because if you allow teams to poach other teams players you will often end up with rich teams poaching for the players of less-rich teams whenever they want.

We can certainly discuss if this rule is perfect or if it needs some fine-tuning, but there has to be some kind of anti-poaching-rule for stabilities sake. Like it or not.

Oh Lord Hes GoodJan 6, 201516 votes

Sorry doublelift apparently you were not informed that, when signing to be a pro player, you get your American right to free speech revoked. What a joke of a rule that is.

ErdqoosjHoJan 7, 20154 votes

oh my god, i hate it when americans discuss like that. Yes, if you sign a contract you lose some rights. Surprise! If you sign up at Wal-Mart and tell everybody that Wal-Mart is a shíthole you shouldn't be surprised if you lose that job. If you work in any inventing company and spread their work-secrets you will get fined heavily as well. Free Speech has limits - and those limits are mostly very well reasoned. (especially if it comes to allegiance to your company).

But yeah, some of you americans still think Swastikas or hate-speech are "free speech" and shouldn't be forbidden. I strongly disagree.

C9 XeroJan 6, 201511 votes

Law student for almost 8 years, this is the stupidest f*cking rule every devised. I'm sure there are many Riot employees handling the legality issues that agree. Ten slow-claps awarded to Nick Allen for putting his face on this joke of a violation.

IroijdikJan 7, 20156 votes

I'm disappointed. A law student should recognize that an agent owes the duty of loyalty to his principal. This includes avoiding conflicts of interest. Because these conversations occurred while ZionSpartan was an agent to Dignitas this is a clear violation of that duty.

FenstickJan 7, 20154 votes

Because you don't understand why this rule is in place, nor realize that is a rule in every major sport, you clearly are not and have never been a law student. At least not in regards to sports agency. This is a common practice in MLS, NBA, NFL and MLB and probably many European Soccer leagues as well

Fat of the LandJan 8, 20152 votes

Proof that higher education isn't the same as understanding.

AlquinnJan 6, 20159 votes

Goes to show that this rule is actually f&%"$%ing retarded.

Fletcher NightJan 7, 20158 votes

I love League of Legends, the LCS, and Riot games, but there really needs to be some kind of player's union or something equivalent that can look over the contracts players and teams have to sign, and communicate with Riot/LCS to establish some player rights. The level of control where a player cannot talk to another player or organization about future plan, on there own, while still in "Split" of League is some what over the top. I think pro players can have enough individual responsibility to talk with own organization and other organizations about what they want to do with their career. If teams are not given enough time to replace the player with a suitable replacement, or the player was not preforming adequately before a move, then fining action would seem more reasonable.

As always though I will trust Riot, and the LCS Team to make good and fair decisions for the future <3

OldManGraizerJan 6, 20157 votes

I understand the rules and happy they are in place, but honestly... Zion and Scarra also know these rules exist and spoke with CLG. I think they should have ended the convo there, but they didnt and shares similar ideas with CLG. Should they not also be fined?

toddlolJan 6, 20152 votes

Since both Zion and Scarra will not be able to participate in the LCS for 1-3 weeks, they are being fined. Players get money for the days the are in the LCS. So both of them will missing out on a couple of paychecks because of this.

KastunJan 6, 20157 votes

How is it an issue that a player goes to another team AFTER his contract with a previous team expires? As long as ZionSpartan isn't obliged to re-sign the contract with Dignitas he should be free to do what he wants. The fact that a pro player can't ask another on what their plans are, without risking a 2.5k fine is ridiculous.

ZielmannJan 6, 20155 votes

He asked him about his plans and encouraged him to join CLG. Emphasis on the last bit, because that's really where the problem occurred.

FrigeoJan 6, 20153 votes

Yes, however this is a common and perfectly accepted practice in other industries and sports. It would be like if you had to ask your employer if you could look for a job for after you are done at your current job. You are not allowed to get a new job right away and quit your current job, but talking to other people, getting offers/advice for AFTER your contract is complete is obsurd.

ZielmannJan 7, 20154 votes

For one thing, it is common in sports that teams can't poach players like this. Remember, an organization may talk to the other player's organization regarding possible acquisitions after somebody's contract is up. What's not allowed is going under the table and approaching the player directly, without that player's current organization being involved. I see no problem with this. In sports, teams do this by setting up trades or buying a player's contract from another organization. But this talk takes place between the two organizations involved. It's not until a player's contract is up and they become a free-agent that teams can approach them directly (or they can approach teams).

Also, your attempted analogy isn't remotely applicable here. Out in the work force, you're basically a free-agent. Even when employed by one company, you're welcome to move around as you please. Though some restrictions can even exist on contracts for general employment, too. For example, I'm working for a company through a contract house. As part of my contract, I wasn't allowed to work with another contract house to arrange a job within some set distance of my current job for the first year.

Level 18 ZoeJan 6, 20156 votes

Nah, I have to support the players. It's their career, I'm actually surprised dig couldn't keep Zion, but frankly there is no reason why he can't have a chat with another team about it. again, contract was up, and he wanted something new. I don't think personally I would have done it any differently then they did. Zion could just stream and make the money back in a few days... so who cares really.

ZielmannJan 7, 20154 votes

Re-read. His contract wasn't up when Doublelift approached him with the idea of joining CLG after the season. If they had waited, this would be a non-issue.

ZDWDx9FG1VJan 7, 20156 votes

The reason this rule seems so ridiculous is because violation is based almost entirely on intent. if Dlift simply wanted to ask Zion about his plans for the future and had no intention of recruiting him, then that would've been perfectly fine. But if Dlift asked Zion intending to recruit him from the start, then that's a violation.

though in this case, that intent is irrelevant. People need to keep in mind that Riot didn't find out about this "violation." CLG went to Riot and admitted to their violation. Seems like the accounts of all parties involved support this claim, and therefore, Riot must dish out punishment.

ZielmannJan 7, 20154 votes

He encouraged Zion to join CLG for the next season while Zion was still under contract with Dig. It's pretty straightforward to me.

Amastris DratwkaJan 7, 20155 votes

I understand most of you dudes are gamers who know very little about regular sports rules but this is fairly standard practice, so please understand what you're talking about before you open your mouth to complain that these don't exist as standard:

"Signing With Other Clubs: (a) Any player under contract to a Club as a Practice Squad player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club at any time during the League Year, to serve as a player on any Club’s Active or Inactive List, and any Club is completely free to negotiate and sign such a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period, except that such player shall not be permitted to sign a Player Contract with another Club to serve as a Practice Squad player while under contract as a Practice Squad player. (b) Notwithstanding Subsection (a) above, a Practice Squad player may not sign an NFL Player Contract with his Club’s next opponent later than 4:00 pm, New York time, on the sixth day preceding the game (except in bye weeks, when the prohibition commences on the tenth day preceding the game). When the current employer club has a bye the weekend before the game against the Club signing the Practice Squad player to an NFL Player Contract, such contract must be executed prior to 4:00 pm, New York time, on the 10th day preceding the game..."

JeffJeffJan 7, 20155 votes

This is so stupid. What Doublelift and ZionSpartan had was simply a conversation between two friends about their future. The idea of poaching can ONLY apply if ZionSpartan terminates his contract or breaks it BEFORE IT IS OVER BECAUSE of DoubleLift. How can you possibly consider what DoubleLift said to ZionSpartan as an offer to join CLG? There were no technicalities, and there was no serious negotiation/offer to Zion at the time. HE LEFT DIG AFTER HIS CONTRACT ENDED BEFORE APPROACHING CLG. this is bullshit. Whatever happened to free speech? A friend can't discuss with another friend about their future? wtf is this

ZaliethJan 7, 20154 votes

Their right to freedom of speech was not infringed upon, to suggest such is a lack of understanding on what free speech is. The first amendment allows people to say what they want/express themselves without the federal government interfering. It does NOT, however, cover state legislation, corporations, or individual responses to such action. This is similar to the fact that a company CAN and DO fire people for things they have said, and it is completely within their legal right to do so.

Now on to the other point. People are quick to judge Riot based on conjecture, but the fact is each of these individuals signed a contract that stated they will not discuss team contracts and transfers before a contract is over. This is to prevent teams from poaching. Now, I do not believe that Doublelift was attempting to poach in the long term, I highly doubt that he was attempting to convince ZionSpartan to up and leave in the middle of the season and ZionSpartan DID finish out his contract before approaching. Having said that, it would set a bad precedent to allow it to go unpunished (and let's face it, the punishment is mild compared to the six figure salary many of these individuals make), given that they directly violated the rules stated by Riot. They could have held a conversation about the future while leaving out a mention of moving to another team, specifically the team that Doublelift played for. That is a bad decision amongst any sport, e-sports included. Given that once contracts end players are given adequate time to find another team, it was incredibly inappropriate for them to have said conversation.

TL:DR: You don't have to like a rule for it to be justified, and their punishment is a slap on the wrist compared to what it could have been, the fact that everyone owned up to it shows that they have good character and an understanding that these rules are set for a reason.

Frith360Jan 7, 20155 votes

I don't understand what everyone is angry about. Tampering rules are fairly commonplace in professional sports, and if League wants to be considered a true sport, it needs this type of protection. Teams are not allowed to talk to players as it could impact contract negotiations in future. Think if Player A was playing well in the last year of his contract, and Team A who has the rights to Player A has every intention on resigning him. Player B from Team B tells Player A that there may be an opening on Team B. Player A benefits, but Team A gets screwed as even before negotiations can begin they're behind the 8 ball. This is why in most pro sports an opposing team must gain permission to talk to the player or their agent.

A league must protect it's owners to protect their investment. If owners feel they aren't being looked after, they simply wont invest their money. No money, no league.

Mage PlayerJan 7, 20154 votes

Urgot to be kidding me. I'm Lucian respect for Riot.

EcohJan 7, 20154 votes

I see why the rule is in place. If a team asks would you like to join their team DURING LCS and that player agrees, then that player can "sabotage" games on his current team. That's probably why the rule is in place in my opinion.

NGdontdieJan 6, 20153 votes

@OldManGraizer i agree. However i don't think any of them should actually be fined. At any time thank you America even under contract you cant still talk about you future to any open ended extent. There fining them for talking about what THEY are going to do after there contracts are up. There is honestly no illegal action taking place. Lets fine people for discussing there Future. Better start Fining every Pro Athlete in the World!

FriedJaminJan 6, 20157 votes

Professional sports organizations ARE fined for 'poaching' though...

Notbad jpgJan 6, 20155 votes

I don't know enough about, lets say the NFL but is every athlete in the NFL held to that standard? Like can an individual player be considered poaching when they are talking to another player about what they are going to to do when their contract is up? It seems odd to me. Clearly DL does not, as a player, have the authority to offer a position on the team so he cannot be poaching anyone. He is not a Coach or manager, he cannot bring on Zion to the team so he cannot poach him. He was just talking as a friend to another friend about the future. If management or coaching staff was soliciting then it would be different but when people who have no authority to give out a position on the team are talking about the future (a future when the person isn't even under contract anymore no less!) it seems weird they could be fined for poaching when they can't even actually poach that person.

Amastris DratwkaJan 7, 20153 votes

Here's an incident where the rapper Drake made a plea at his concert for Durant to join Toronto Raptors and the NBA team was fined $25K for that statement for anti-poaching:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/nba-fines-raptors--25-000-for-violating-anti-tampering-rules-with-drake-s--pitch--to-kevin-durant-141732492.html

IroijdikJan 7, 20152 votes

When you are contracted by an organization such as an LCS team, you have a legal responsibility to avoid conflicts of interest. This is not a ridiculous rule and the fine is appropriate.

It does not decrease the competitiveness of contracts but rather strengthens it. It ensures the contract player will observe their duties to play their best for their respective team in return for the team paying them to do so. I guarantee any employer would be upset with your performance if they found out that you did not return them your best efforts and instead spent your time securing your own personal interests at their expense.