DOTA Casters are SO MUCH BETTER than LOL Casters

IALL ARE MUTEDI·Oct 5, 2018·5 votes·3,372 views

I love how GBM builds a Spellbinder on Galio (Play-in Stage, Day 4, Supermassive vs. Ascension) and the casters are like "Wow that build is questionable, it's not meta, and builds are meta because THEY WORK."

This is a great example of why DOTA is casted better than LoL. Why aren't they talking about what the item actually gives him and why you'd want to build it?

Galio needs to move speed to re-position to Taunt opponents. The utility the item gives him is important to his kit and the casters don't even mention it. When someone builds something out of the norm they should actually talk about it instead of talking about the normal crap that they always talk about which isn't particularly interesting at all (ex. CS leads - often insignificant ones - 10, 15, 20 CS at 10 mins doesn't really matter, rotations, negligible dragons (anything not infernal or mountain really doesn't matter that much)...

All of that happens, Galio (GBM) makes massive plays in that game and they don't even acknowledge the fact that the non-meta decision to build a Spellbinder made a huge impact on the game - EVEN AFTER the game is over (they mention that they shouldn't laugh at his builds, but don't acknowledge the move speed or even the item itself, just that building damage on Galio can make him do damage - Wow, what a revelation that analysis was). What's the point of an analyst desk and shout casters if they don't actually say anything meaningful? I just don't understand how people who are paid to talk about this game do such a shitty job of it.

This isn't even a one-time example. LoL casters don't even talk about when active items get used in normal scenarios.

"Oh wow that guy lost 30% of his HP because of [Insert Ability Here]" - That isn't interesting. I have eyes, I can see that. I can see that an ability missed. Tell me something I may not notice. People that watch this game have played it for years in most cases. Step it up a bit.

DOTA casters track item cooldowns. This is HUGE. It matters! They talk about how they are used, when they are used, and when they are on cooldown. It's almost as if they are playing the game themselves!

They mention rotations quite a bit. They talk about item builds very extensively. Not only the item build the player has gone (and WHY), they also talk about alternative item builds (and WHY you would consider going that or wouldn't consider going that under the circumstances of the current game being played). They talk about objectives only briefly and focus on the actual gameplay and decision-making of the players.

DOTA casters don't just focus on talking about Bounty Runes, or Roshan, or the Jungle. They talk about much more of the game.

LOL has become this sort of formulaic sort of casting and it isn't interesting.

Oh, a fight got won... Wow now a turret/dragon/baron/rift herald is gonna die - as if no one saw that coming... Talk about something interesting. Stop rattling off random stats and talk about the game being played. Focus more on what the players are thinking. Why they're making the decisions they make. Why they build what they build. Stop focusing so much on the meta! IT DOESN'T MATTER TO PEOPLE THAT MUCH. If someone picks something different don't tell the player base that it's a bad decision or shame the person for picking it. This is WHY your community is SO TOXIC. The casters don't think off-meta picks are worth picking so why would we?

Do your jobs better, this is sad.

edit: idk why I even included a vote. It's not even worth voting on as it's NO CONTEST. DOTA casters kick the living crap out of LOL casters. You guys probably don't even watch DOTA so MOST of you aren't educated enough to vote anyway. You have no idea what you're missing. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgdi59ZGbVQ

If you don't find that more enjoyable to watch than LOL simply based off just the casters and how engaged and knowledgeable they are then I don't know what to tell you. The difference is Night & Day.

Just wait until a teamfight breaks out. Every item usage, every ability that lands or misses - ALL OF IT is caught and called by the shout casters. ALL OF IT. Nothing is skipped. It is impressive, it is awesome, and if you guys want to settle on this crap you're getting... I don't know what to tell you.

LOL players literally HAVE to watch a LOL streamer to get an informed point of view about the game... About matchups, about how a lane should be played, when to build certain items, etc. You're not going to get that from watching LCS games because the casters aren't going to talk about it. They're awful.

63 Comments

ImgartnOct 5, 20184 votes

Too bad they don't have anything to cast. :(

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20182 votes

They could do more with the little they do have :P

InfernapeOct 5, 20184 votes

Korean LoL casters > all

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

Yeah! Wait don't they just kinda go anywhere with their casting sometimes? Bah I'll give you that one; I like them on occasion

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Hell yeah dude. I can get behind that 100% - They make every moment seem so epic, and it is because they're there. Lol.

InfernapeOct 5, 20182 votes

Korean casters have so much energy it's entertaining and informative. Tbh the English LCK casters are the most informative imo

EleshakaiOct 5, 20182 votes

I've never watched a DotA game and actually REMEMBERED a caster's impact on the experience. They're simply voices talking over the game - largely in an unmemorable and replaceable way. I remember little vocal ticks and nuances of individual casters when watching LoL. I notice and remember the unique personalities and styles of each one. The habits they have while casting.

To me, that tells me they're effective since they've actually made me notice them during the game.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20182 votes

Watching a LOL game isn't about getting to know the casters. It's about being able to understand the game and what happened.

I think your post exemplifies the extreme difference.

DOTA games are often cast by 4-5 people. The reason you can't remember the casters themselves is likely because there are so many working together to make sure that people understand EVERYTHING that is going on IN THE GAME. Not the stats. Not the other games that happened games prior to the game being played. The one that is right in front of your face.

LOL is cast by 2 people. You know the casters because they talk about things unrelated to the game the entire game. So what you end up with is knowledge about the stats and the little things the caster cares about the whole game instead of knowledge about the players and the game, and what those players are doing differently on a champion than someone else who played the same champion 2 games ago. You also end up with the caster's opinion of the players, or a bunch of guessing about who is going to win, etc. None of this actually matters and has nothing to do with the gameplay. It's extremely boring, meaningless crap that no one really cares about but helps us "get to know them." No thanks.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-05T15:58:26.690+0000)

Watching a LOL game isn't about getting to know the casters. It's about being able to understand the game and what happened.

I think your post exemplifies the extreme difference.

DOTA games are often cast by 4-5 people. The reason you can't remember the casters themselves is likely because there are so many working together to make sure that people understand EVERYTHING that is going on.

LOL is cast by 2 people. You know the casters because they talk about things unrelated to the game the entire game. So what you end up with is knowledge about the stats and the little things the caster cares about the whole game instead of knowledge about the players and the game, and what those players are doing differently on a champion than someone else who played the same champion 2 games ago.

But that's exactly my point. It's different expectations of what casters are. I don't watch pro LoL to have casters give me a tutorial of the game. I watch it to view the game with some entertaining and informed dialogue and discourse over top of it. I want to know the casters.

Which is exactly what I'm saying in my other post. You have one idea of what the caster's job is. That is not the same as knowing what their job ACTUALLY is. The LoL casters may not be fulfilling your expectations of what a caster should be, but they doesn't mean they're bad. It just means that the role they're filling is not the role you prefer.

However, it is important to recognise that your expectations may differ from other peoples' expectations... and that the LoL e-sports community may be focused on something different than what you personally want and that there are people out there who WANT exactly what the LoL casters are doing.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

The LOL casters are giving you a "tutorial" of the game, though. And nothing more than that. They only talk about basic garbage. It's things you've heard a million times before. It isn't discourse. It isn't informed. It's crap.

I think you're the one who is confused. Being a caster is MUCH MORE than what they are doing.

They've been doing it this way for forever. So yes, this is the way they ACTUALLY CAST.

However... The DEFINITION of a caster is ACTUALLY what the DOTA people do. Un-**** your mind, my friend.

They're not my expectations. It's a standard that has been set by a game that has been around far longer than LOL.

LOL is already a much simpler game than DOTA... The fact they're being much lazier with the casting is a disservice to this player-base. My expectations are different, sure, okay. That doesn't make their casting okay. It's seriously just them talking about nothing for 30 minutes to an hour. It is not okay.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T16:05:18.696+0000)

The LOL casters are giving you a "tutorial" of the game, though. And nothing more than that. They only talk about basic garbage. It's things you've heard a million times before. It isn't discourse. It isn't informed. It's crap.

I think you're the one who is confused. Being a caster is MUCH MORE than what they are doing.

They've been doing it this way for forever. So yes, this is the way they ACTUALLY CAST.

However... The DEFINITION of a caster is ACTUALLY what they DOTA people do. Un-**** your mind, my friend.

Listen man. Your opinion is not the only opinion that matters. And if you are incapable of respecting that different opinions exist, and that there are different perspectives of what is valuable in a role, then I genuinely feel sorry for you as real life is going to hold a lot of unfortunate eye-opening revelations for you.

That being said, I understand that the DotA casting team are doing a good job of what you want out of casters. And I appreciate that. That's awesome for you, I'm glad you enjoy DotA casts. It shows that DotA has recognised one successful form of casting and is going all in on that and that is GREAT. It's important to pick something you're good at and focus on it.

However, they're not doing what I want out of casters. At all. I want someone memorable. I want to know that Riv has a tendency to use the phrase 'Trials and Tribulations' a lot, I want to know that PapaSmithy gets really bitter in super long games, I want to know that Phreak loves awful puns, I want to watch casters talk about the history of the players and their own personal experiences. These are all the exact types of things I look for when I'm watching an E-Sport. So I am glad that Riot has their casters doing things the way they do them because that is what I PERSONALLY want. That doesn't make it 'the right way', but it makes it 'a right way' and that's all you can expect.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Then follow his twitter and watch the shows that they have. Watch Phreak's stream and you can get his awful puns there. You can get them in-between games. Or even after a big fight. That's fine. But there's no reason that there should be crap-ass analysis of things that are happening right in front of us during a pro game where the best players in the world are playing. There's plenty of places to get to know these casters besides when they are supposed to be talking about what pro players are doing.

People can have opinions, fine. But at least back them up somehow with something other than "THIS IS WHAT I LIKE OKAY? BELIEVE IT."

I'm not making this post to say "THIS IS WHAT I LIKE ALRIGHT?"

The entirety of this post is "TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT TO THE GAMEPLAY."

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T17:11:28.384+0000)

Then follow his twitter and watch the shows that they have. Watch Phreak's stream and you can get his awful puns there. You can get them in-between games. Or even after a big fight. That's fine. But there's no reason that there should be crap-ass analysis of things that are happening right in front of us during a pro game where the best players in the world are playing. There's plenty of places to get to know these casters besides when they are supposed to be talking about what pro players are doing.

People can have opinions, fine. But at least back them up somehow with something other than "THIS IS WHAT I LIKE OKAY? BELIEVE IT."

I'm not making this post to say "THIS IS WHAT I LIKE ALRIGHT?"

The entirety of this post is "TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT TO THE GAMEPLAY."

There is no factual right answer here. It is all opinion. You are of the opinion that the DotA casters way is better. I am of the opinion that the LoL casters way is better. Neither of us are WRONG about this. It's just a differing opinion. I wish you'd stop pretending somehow that what you like is automatically right. It'd make this an actual discussion we could have in stead of just you throwing insulting assertions and assumptions out left and right.

But I guess that's too much for you.

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=000100000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-05T17:14:54.630+0000)

Lol, yeah. There it goes. whoosh

These are the best players in the world at this game - I'm watching to learn from them. That, in and of itself, is entertaining. It's in real-time. It's exciting! The casters should be there to break that action down in a way that engages people's minds so that they want to keep watching, but also so they come out of it a better player. They can hype it up but they don't say anything intelligible, and they should! There's a lot of strategy in LOL, and there's a lot of little things going on besides ultimates and the occasional stopwatch/zhonya's, and it's just getting completely omitted.

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for them to include that in their shoutcasting (which is currently just a very general overview of what's going on) and I don't see how that is something this player-base wouldn't find entertaining. It's a content/style change. More ability names being used, more item usages called out, more build choices being talked about. It's nothing crazy... And you guys make it sound like it'd be the most horrible change in the world. Unreal.

First, I think you're exaggerating how little they say. There's a lot of things they do break down and talk about, especially at a higher level. You may not appreciate it, but it's there.

Secondly, nobody is acting like it'd be the most horrible change in the world. It would just be counter to my personal tastes so I would enjoy the cast less.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

The fact is they say much less than DOTA casters do about micro. It's a fact. You can go check it out yourself.

If people weren't talking out of their asses I might take them seriously. Unfortunately that's not the case.

You're not wrong to have an opinion, but you have no reasoning or bad reasoning for your opinion. So no, I don't respect your opinion and will not respect your opinion until there's a better reasoning for having the opinion. I respect your right to the opinion though. You can have a bad opinion. I can still think it's a shitty opinion though.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T17:38:03.733+0000)

The fact is they say much less than DOTA casters do about micro. It's a fact. You can go check it out yourself.

If people weren't talking out of their asses I might take them seriously. Unfortunately that's not the case.

You're not wrong to have an opinion, but you have no reasoning or bad reasoning for your opinion. So no, I don't respect your opinion and will not respect your opinion until there's a better reasoning for having the opinion. I respect your right to the opinion though. You can have a bad opinion. I can still think it's a shitty opinion though.

Yes. That's a fact. But I don't CARE that they don't do that.

My reasoning is simple: It is what I ENJOY. It is fun to watch people cast competitive gaming with strong personalities and interesting interpersonal dialogue. I enjoy getting to know the casters. It is something I enjoy. You're welcome to not enjoy it, but it doesn't make it wrong for me TO enjoy it.

Pika FoxOct 5, 20181 votes

And the LoL casters do a better job of being entertaining, which is the biggest and most important part.

Also, we still need Northern Lion to do a LoL tournament casting.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

I'm pretty sure that they don't. Maybe if I was 12 years old... Which, I'm pretty sure most of you guys are not even 18. Thus, the chat is filled with idiots spamming SJOKZ IS THICC every time she comes on screen... or... GRILL OMG OMEGALUL SEX HER... etc.

So what you're saying, to me, is... "We're stupid! We want to remain stupid! Get out of here wanting to get more game knowledge by watching pro play!"

That's the gist of it, right? That you guys are willing to insult your own intelligence so that the casters don't have to increase their's? Lol. What a joke. Just what I expected from the forums. Not sure why I even bother with this crap.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-05T16:30:11.895+0000)

I'm pretty sure that they don't. Maybe if I was 12 years old... Which, I'm pretty sure most of you guys are not even 18. Thus, the chat is filled with idiots spamming SJOKZ IS THICC every time she comes on screen... or... GRILL OMG OMEGALUL SEX HER... etc.

So what you're saying, to me, is... "We're stupid! We want to remain stupid! Get out of here wanting to get more game knowledge by watching pro play!"

That's the gist of it, right?

No, what he's saying is that, to him, entertainment is more important out of watching pro gaming than education.

Which is one perspective, and a perfectly valid one. Your opinion that a cast focused entirely on education is more important is ALSO perfectly valid.

I generally read articles and watch tutorial videos and analytical breakdowns of games when I want education. I watch competitive gaming live when I want entertainment.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Lol, yeah. There it goes. whoosh

These are the best players in the world at this game - I'm watching to learn from them. That, in and of itself, is entertaining. It's in real-time. It's exciting! The casters should be there to break that action down in a way that engages people's minds so that they want to keep watching, but also so they come out of it a better player. They can hype it up but they don't say anything intelligible, and they should! There's a lot of strategy in LOL, and there's a lot of little things going on besides ultimates and the occasional stopwatch/zhonya's, and it's just getting completely omitted.

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for them to include that in their shoutcasting (which is currently just a very general overview of what's going on) and I don't see how that is something this player-base wouldn't find entertaining. It's a content/style change. More ability names being used, more item usages called out, more build choices being talked about. It's nothing crazy... And you guys make it sound like it'd be the most horrible change in the world. Unreal.

Pika FoxOct 5, 20181 votes

Damn, its rare i see someone sink their own argument in record time...

ApollyonBainerOct 5, 20182 votes

They go over highlights in detail after the games. If that dont do the trick for you then go watch dota games. Not a lot of people care about casters anyways. They want to watch the pros play the game. No one watches pro football to hear what Zach Madupname thinks about. I dont listen to the radio to hear commentry on music. I want the music.

ApollyonBainerOct 5, 20182 votes

Korean casters are best on planet. I dont even need to speak korean.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

That I can agree to. They are frickin' awesome. That guy that subbed in to cast last year at Worlds was AMAZING. Absolutely loved him.

BlinkZZ182Oct 5, 20181 votes

Spellbinder isnt impactful at all in that game. item 2065 is obviously a better choice for Galio if you want movement speed. Pros do not always build items correctly.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

No one said they always build correctly. Where'd you get that from?

Also, you can build either item to get the move speed. It depends on what your objective is. Do you want to win the trades harder? Build the Spellbinder>Shurelya's. Do you want to be able to take more punishment? Build the Shurelya's.

You can sit there and say that they both give AP, but again, the difference is Night & Day. Shurelya's gives a mere 40 AP, while Spellbinder's gives 120 AP. It's not the same.

Galio gets naturally tanky. He doesn't need the HP against a comp that is going to explode basically instantly. He has resistances against the Alistar and the Gragas without investing in it early. They basically do no damage to him. Corki is mixed damage so he's reducing the magic portion of his damage to basically 0 early. You can build both but they accomplish different things. A Spellbinder Galio is going to do a lot more in the lane phase than a Shurelya's Galio. A Shurelya's Galio has slightly more teamfight pressure depending on the team comp (mostly depending on his teammates) than a Spellbinder Galio. In the comp of this game, Jarvan already has a dash. He doesn't give a crap about move speed. Thresh might, but if Galio is already in there taunting the enemy team then it's a non-factor because Thresh can just hook someone who is CC'd and get in the fight to Flay that way. Sion was just going to ult into the fight anyway. They didn't need a Shurelya's so it was fine to go Spellbinder.

I am simply stating that they don't even talk about it. They didn't talk about Shurelya's either, btw.

Let's not get off-topic and start flaming the OP. That is how all posts on these forums seem to go and that isn't particularly interesting either.

People down-voting a post they didn't read/understand is also sad.

BlinkZZ182Oct 5, 20183 votes

I did not downvote you. You understand that many casters are just silver, especially the female ones. They don't even comprehend the game mechanics better than some gold players.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Yeah, that's a problem. And I'm addressing it here. They are not good at the game and shouldn't be talking about, or criticizing, people who play on a vastly different level than them without taking the time to sit down with these players and learn to analyze the game.

The pro players are on a Riot Salary. So are the casters. There is no reason casters should be so bad at their job. They have the resources to be good at it and it should matter to people.

Sorry. Just frustrates me to see a post get downvoted because people play LOL and want to think it's better than DOTA. People will just downvote it on principle.

DOTA has a lot more depth than LOL does. However, I've played LOL for 8 years. I'm okay with it being a little more casual than DOTA, and it does some things better than DOTA.

The UI is better and the gameplay is smoother than DOTA... Which matters a lot to me. This isn't really a post about liking one over the other. I just think that LOL's casters are really doing this game a horrible disservice, and I'm surprised that people haven't noticed. I don't think many members of this community actually watch DOTA so that's probably the reason why... I think people should take the time to check it out before just thinking that it's okay simply because that's the way it has always been.

It's okay to ask for more. They aren't going to know they suck at it until someone tells them.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T15:50:09.621+0000)

Yeah, that's a problem. And I'm addressing it here. They are not good at the game and shouldn't be talking about, or criticizing, people who play on a vastly different level than them without taking the time to sit down with these players and learn to analyze the game.

The pro players are on a Riot Salary. So are the casters. There is no reason casters should be so bad at their job. They have the resources to be good at it and it should matter to people.

They're not bad at their job though. They're just bad at what you perceive their job to be. However, that's not ACTUALLY what their job IS.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

-_- Who cares. They content of what they're saying isn't insightful. Yes, they're presentable, they're even likeable (I think Kobe is frickin' awesome), but honestly they can do a lot better when it comes to talking about the game in an insightful and meaningful way. Kobe does that the best out of most casters because he used to be a pro player himself on CLG. Whether that's how they're told to shoutcast or not, the quality is lackluster and needs fixed.

HEY RITO, MIND RAISING THE BAR A BIT? That's all this post is about.

BlinkZZ182Oct 5, 20183 votes

The casters are their to amuse you. Their job is to entertain you and make the atmosphere robust, not to help you understand the game. That is the job of a LOL tutor making youtube vidoes and breaking them down for you

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

You make some points here and there and I'll approve there. But when you try to play the comparison game and then throw shade at the community over your own generated post; that's where I disagree with the discussion.

I personally get roughly the same out of both DOTA and LOL in means of caster exposure; casting the game at hand from macro and decision making with a hint of side-talk during dead points. Exaggerating one is better than the other is only by opinion to me, not a fact.

Hell here's an opinion; if I want valuable casting with entertainment, I'd just watch me some good ass Tekken with Tasty Steve and Rip or Dragonball Fighterz with Yipes and Matrix. All the same to me.

edit: That one thing I agree to is the off meta confusion. I only really wish there was more of an idea - even a guess - to how and why rather than shock and approval/disapproval

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

They both cast macro, but DOTA gets much more into the micro and the fine details.

All you're ever going to get with LOL casting is macro.

The macro gets incredibly old very quickly. Any silver player can do that.

The only time you'll ever get into the micro in a LOL game is when they take the time to do a replay in slow motion after the game and break it down that way.

The fact that they can't do that in real-time speaks to the huge differences in ability between the casters of each game.

If people are going to get paid to put on suits and look presentable then their knowledge and ability to cast the game should be just as sharp.

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

Casting expertise is not some determination by in-game rank, professionalism, or otherwise. Anyone can freaking cast a game if they have the delivery and knowledge of just the general mechanics and concepts for a start.

Give me some measure of proof among specific casting styles. How much are you basing your claims off of? I'm more than prepared with enough exposure of enough games over years to shut up your point.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

[deleted]

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

Oh so you don't want to go that far huh? And you call us the uneducated? I rest my case there if you're just gonna talk out your ass as if your word is fact.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

It's so pointless for me to even bother with this... But here you go:

https://youtu.be/22yDZ5WZpA4?t=11310

3:08:30-3:09:30 a. No mention of the fact that the minions got the turret while the fight was happening. No mention of Alistar flash. No mention of Gragas flash. No mention of Corki package – wasting time talking about GBM making an entrance, “heroically of course!” instead.
3:13:10-3:13:53 a. No mention of ward coverage dodging that was done by ASC to set this play up. It was excellent. They also shame people for building Mejai’s (even telling people to never do it) and don’t talk about WHY he has 2 dark seals to begin with, then totally miss the fact that he sells the second one when he backs before this next teamfight... where there’s so much stuff missed even in the replay…
3:14:10-3:15:15 a. Galio’s flash over the wall is not mentioned. Thresh R is not mentioned. Gragas engage not really mentioned (“Zeitnot is in trouble” is all you get there). No talk about Camille ultimate keeping Varus in place so they can kill him. “Rockky’s into the backline” as Rockky is on Thresh and Galio, which is not the backline… “They manage to win themselves the fight!” – It’s a 3 for 3… Like, c’mon. Then they don’t even mention the fact that Galio had just used his ult to save Sion so it wasn’t up and might’ve changed the outcome of that fight completely. Also no mention of the fact that Sion could’ve helped Jarvan IV push in to protect the Rift Herald solely so that it could get a charge off before it died. This is about as crappy as we can get here. Let’s see if the replay does us any favors…
3:15:20-3:15:54 a. Still no mention of Galio’s flash over the wall… Still no mention of Camille R or Thresh R. They finally mention Gragas flash over the wall. They fail to mention, ever, that Galio successfully zoned Alistar and Corki for the cost of only his flash, and they also don’t mention that Sion was a non-factor in the entire fight.
3:16:10-3:17:00 a. Annnnd here is what prompted this post. They question his build off of a fight where they went even in a 4v5 vs. the other team. Excuse me? He had a HUGE impact on that fight that they didn’t even talk about. Horrendous casting 0/10.

Edit: Compare that mess to this – THIS is how you cast a teamfight 24:27-26:10: https://youtu.be/mgdi59ZGbVQ?t=1467 I mean honestly… Night & Day... Not sure what to say. It's hyped up, it's accurate, it's sharp, it's clean. It's no contest. You are uneducated. It can be fixed. Do it yourself instead of making me do the work for you. All of you.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T18:32:10.471+0000)

It's so pointless for me to even bother with this... But here you go:

https://youtu.be/22yDZ5WZpA4?t=11310

3:08:30-3:09:30 a. No mention of the fact that the minions got the turret while the fight was happening. No mention of Alistar flash. No mention of Gragas flash. No mention of Corki package – wasting time talking about GBM making an entrance, “heroically of course!” instead.

3:13:10-3:13:53 a. No mention of ward coverage dodging that was done by ASC to set this play up. It was excellent. They also shame people for build Mejai’s and don’t talk about WHY he has 2 dark seals to begin with, then totally miss the fact that he sells the second one when he backs before this next teamfight... where there’s so much stuff missed even in the replay…

3:14:10-3:15:15 a. Galio’s flash over the wall is not mentioned. Thresh R is not mentioned. Gragas engage not really mentioned (“Zeitnot is in trouble” is all you get there). No talk about Camille ultimate keeping Varus in place so they can kill him. “Rockk’s into the backline” as Rockky is on Thresh and Galio, which is not the backline… “They manage to win themselves the fight!” – It’s a 3 for 3… Like, c’mon. Then they don’t even mention that fact that Galio had just used his ult to save Sion so it wasn’t up and might’ve changed the outcome of that fight completely. Also no mention of the fact that Sion could’ve helped Jarvan IV push in to protect the Rift Herald solely so that it could get a charge off before it died. This is about as crappy as we can get here. Let’s see if the replay does us any favors…

3:15:20-3:15:54 a. Still no mention of Galio’s flash over the wall… Still no mention of Camille R or Thresh R. They finally mention Gragas flash over the wall. They fail to mention, ever, that Galio successfully zoned Alistar and Corki for the cost of only his flash, and they also don’t mention that Sion was a non-factor in the entire fight.

3:16:10-3:17:00 a. Annnnd here is what prompted this post. They question his build off of a fight where they went even in a 4v5 vs. the other team. Excuse me? He had a HUGE impact on that fight that they didn’t even talk about. Horrendous casting 0/10.

Edit: Compare that mess to this – THIS is how you cast a teamfight 24:27-26:10: https://youtu.be/mgdi59ZGbVQ?t=1467 I mean honestly… Night & Day... Not sure what to say. It's hyped up, it's accurate, it's sharp, it's clean. It's no contest. You are uneducated. It can be fixed. Do it yourself instead of making me do the work for you. All of you.

lol... the casting in the second video you linked is dry and extremely boring. Ya, I learned a fair bit, but it's SO boring. Holy crap, it's like reading a history textbook. Ya it's informative, but it's not fun.

Honestly, I will acknowledge there are a few LoL casters I don't particularly enjoy listening to. But most of them are really entertaining and relatively informed.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Whatever. So much emotion there I don't understand how you can be bored. Probably because you don't play DOTA and could give 2 craps about anything he's saying. Like I said you guys will just downvote on principal because you're little LOL sheep. I do what you ask, make it clear as day, and you're still just as ignorant as before. Screw you people. Done. What a joke. This is what happens literally every single time I come to the forums, you can check my post history. This is an utterly ridiculous joke that isn't very funny. Peace.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T18:55:22.521+0000)

Whatever. So much emotion there I don't understand how you can be bored. Probably because you don't play DOTA and could give 2 craps about anything he's saying. Like I said you guys will just downvote on principal because you're little LOL sheep. I do what you ask, make it clear as day, and you're still just as ignorant as before. Screw you people. Done. What a joke. This is what happens literally every single time I come to the forums, you can check my post history. This is an utterly ridiculous joke that isn't very funny. Peace.

I played DotA for years. Their casting just feels encyclopedic. There's not really any personality to it. And, to be fair, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a perfectly good way of casting. But it's not the way I want my casts to be run, so I am personally happy that LoL chooses a more personal approach to casting - with a smaller team of casters who are more recognisable.

But... the reason things go like this is simple:

You come to the forum for League of Legends. Claim that a subjective opinion is objective fact (particularly one that is promoting one of League of Legends competitors(and specifically one that has a long-standing, harsh rivalry) , refuse to give even an INCH to people who disagree with you even if they have valid reasons for it. And then get super insulting to anyone who dares to say that your opinion is anything less than God-Given Truth, dismissing their opinions out of hand.

And then you wonder why the reception is not warm.

If you want a less hostile reception, come here with an opinion, state it AS an opinion, and then hold a discussion with people, giving their opinions as much value as you hold your own... I bet you'll have a more positive experience.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

You demonstrate that it isn't fact then. Do what I did. Back it up.

"I feel this way" is not a convincing argument. If you want to convince someone, try harder. When you give a valid reason then I'll damn well give you the time of day. Until then you can piss off too.

I can tell you that you suck at posting on the forums, because really, you do. You're the perfect reason that people hate the forums. "I FEEL THIS WAY SO YOU'VE GOTTA BE TOLERANT OF MY OPINION."

No I don't. If "I find it boring" is all you have... Good luck convincing anyone of anything in regards to this.

If you want to get to know the characters you need to start watching television. Not League of Legends. Or DOTA. Go watch one person stream. It'd be a better use of your time than watching League of Legends pro games. They are not meant to be personal, they're meant to be competitive. This community is competitive. The broadcasting should be tailored towards a competitive audience. Not a drama theatre. Towards people who are invested in League of Legends. I'm not sure where the disconnect is for you there, but, yeah. It is alarming that someone would come to this forum to defend such a whacky and out of place perspective, and, furthermore, with nearly zero reasons for why.

EleshakaiOct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=IALL ARE MUTEDI,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=YzGEKKMs,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T19:08:10.055+0000)

You demonstrate that it isn't fact then. Do what I did. Back it up.

"I feel this way" is not a convincing argument. If you want to convince someone, try harder. When you give a valid reason then I'll damn well give you the time of day. Until then you can piss off too.

I can tell you that you suck at posting on the forums, because really, you do. You're the perfect reason that people hate the forums. "I FEEL THIS WAY SO YOU'VE GOTTA BE TOLERANT OF MY OPINION."

No I don't. If "I find it boring" is all you have... Good luck convincing anyone of anything in regards to this.

If you want to get to know the characters you need to start watching television. Not League of Legends. Or DOTA. Go watch one person stream. It'd be a better use of your time than watching League of Legends pro games. They are not meant to be personal, they're meant to be competitive. This community is competitive. The broadcasting should be tailored towards a competitive audience. Not a drama theatre. Towards people who are invested in League of Legends. I'm not sure where the disconnect is for you there, but, yeah. It is alarming that someone would come to this forum to defend such a whacky and out of place perspective.

Alright, here. I'll demonstrate it. Since there is no way to measure entertainment OR education, we cannot factually evaluate their skill based off of those measures. The only thing we can measure is # of people who prefer each style.

You prefer the DotA style. So that's 1 point for DotA style. I prefer he LoL style. So that's 1 point for LoL style.

1 is not greater than 1. Thus the DotA style is not better than the LoL style, from the limited objective analysis we are able to perform. Given the small sample size, i will not state that this is 100% conclusive, of course.

But now that we've been through that entirely pointless experience... we can stop trying to pretend there's a factual better method. The reality is simple: Riot's methods are working for Riot. People relate to and like their casters. Valve's methods are working for Valve. People, such as you, find interest in the style of casting they do. Thus both methods are effective. Neither is objectively superior. Neither is objectively inferior. It is not measurable. It is simple preference.

I enjoy the contrast between the high competitive and the more energetic, personality-driven experience. It works well for me. And it seems to work well for some others in this community, judging by the results of your little poll. I'm a little surprised its not closer to 50/50 honestly, but it makes sense because entertainment is valuable.

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

You're using an electric final game of a GRAND FINALS in a setting where casters have already had 4 damn games and an audience to ramp up hype towards. And I'll repeat: you're comparing a god damn grand finals to a play-in single round game! That's an absolutely unfair comparison if you're trying to make a fruitful discussion. Even game time matters in this context as you're using early to mid game League vs mid game onward DOTA.

I decided to go dig up Vici Gaming vs Virtus Pro: Game 2 from the early stages of TI just to put out a more valuable comparison here because using your example is BS. First and foremost, DOTA meta enforces more execution through active itemization and resources not to mention has more action in kills (and less punishment) opposite to what competitive League entails. Both leagues have a bread'n'butter method to playing out a competitive game in which casters regularly follow. One thing that varies quite much is the game tempo they go about with League being more immediate than premeditated.

From what you compared to League's game of Supermassive vs Ascension point for point:

No mention of the fact that the minions got the turret while the fight was happening. No mention of Alistar flash. No mention of Gragas flash. No mention of Corki package – wasting time talking about GBM making an entrance, “heroically of course!” instead.

You nitpick a missed turret, which is also not always verbally sound in DOTA casting either. Neither are all blinks, BKBs, you name it in the very delivery of play-by-play. Flowers mentioned G4's departure of lane and in-game you can see the picked up Package (which is sound off to the enemy team mind you) so the build to a team fight was apparent. The comment on "GBM making his entrance...heroically of course" is literally the name of Galio's ultimate "Hero's Entrance!" More nitpicking basically.

No mention of ward coverage dodging that was done by ASC to set this play up. It was excellent. They also shame people for building Mejai’s (even telling people to never do it) and don’t talk about WHY he has 2 dark seals to begin with, then totally miss the fact that he sells the second one when he backs before this next teamfight... where there’s so much stuff missed even in the replay…

That was one upper side bush ward in which Ascension was already premeditating a gank had GBM forwarded any further. Instead he backed but that left Ascension in a precarious position to either hold place and wait or break the plan. They did the first as FabFab came from top lane to cover GBM with the absence of Rockky who showed as he proceeded to mid lane. There was no meticulous setup to it either; Rich was in lane with G4 and Lloyd was possibly seen on a Supermassive ward as is. The only thing that SUP had to account for was whether or not Rich backed or utilized Hexflash for something because both rivers were lit. There's nothing excellent about that. Just an attempt at a play which WAS cast by Flowers mind you as it was happening.

There's countless games where casting and production will actually focus on a vision game occurring should it be evident to a team's advantages being held at the point in time.

As for the Dark Seal mention; GBM sells that AS Vedius speaks of it! That's just outright coincidence. His mention mostly comes of the uncommon itemization and benefits drawn from buying it. As for the shame for Mejai's; any player knows that building one is very feast or famine because it requires not dying and you're a Galio. It could go unsaid but so can a hundred comments in any game.

Galio’s flash over the wall is not mentioned. Thresh R is not mentioned. Gragas engage not really mentioned (“Zeitnot is in trouble” is all you get there). No talk about Camille ultimate keeping Varus in place so they can kill him. “Rockky’s into the backline” as Rockky is on Thresh and Galio, which is not the backline… “They manage to win themselves the fight!” – It’s a 3 for 3… Like, c’mon. Then they don’t even mention that fact that Galio had just used his ult to save Sion so it wasn’t up and might’ve changed the outcome of that fight completely. Also no mention of the fact that Sion could’ve helped Jarvan IV push in to protect the Rift Herald solely so that it could get a charge off before it died. This is about as crappy as we can get here. Let’s see if the replay does us any favors…

More nitpicking. We as observers can see what goes on in the span of the fight. Casting tends to cover the team fight. And it does cover it the same in DOTA (item execution vs abilities). Flowers focused on the more volatile points in the fight (namely the carries). Rockky's positioning was indeed backline when you look at the blue to red side angle when the rest of his team is out of a suitable engage range of the enemy team.

Galio's ult was mentioned in the immaculate vision game you speak up in your last blurb.

The Rift Herald choice of decision and your opinion on it sounds more like VOD review material, not casting necessity.

As said above the replay covers the fight at hand with a slight perception of the visual game. There's only but so much casters can be handed on both play-by-play AND colour. No different from DOTA. We has viewers have the ability to rewind on the spot if it appeals to us but why would we do that mid-game?

Still no mention of Galio’s flash over the wall… Still no mention of Camille R or Thresh R. They finally mention Gragas flash over the wall. They fail to mention, ever, that Galio successfully zoned Alistar and Corki for the cost of only his flash, and they also don’t mention that Sion was a non-factor in the entire fight.

More nitpicking. This is not a VOD review. Hell I feel like I'm doing that right now.

Annnnd here is what prompted this post. They question his build off of a fight where they went even in a 4v5 vs. the other team. Excuse me? He had a HUGE impact on that fight that they didn’t even talk about. Horrendous casting 0/10.

You miss the part where Vedius points out his opinion on Galio in this play style - aiming at his own skepticism on the matter (as a mid lane player himself mind that as well). They're not dismissing the choices made in any way and his impact on the game was moreover just the mechanical prowess of Galio more than the build at hand (the Dragon fight at 3:22:40 you don't mention in which following the play GBM received the proper praise).

You use 8 minutes of League footage to back your claim and 2 minutes of vastly different DOTA footage to shut me down. Once again, you make no fair argument here. You have grains of sand worth of proof of claim to determine whether or not DOTA casting is better. You say yourself to be educated but can you even cast EVERYTHING they cast and the way you point out as their flaws? I would love to see that!

Think me what you want, but I know you sure have no damn clue what you're talking about.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

Have every clue what I'm talking about. Corki packages in and gets a kill and they say nothing about it while he's making some crappy pun about heroic entrance. I know what the ult name is. Just stating that there's more important things happening than that while he decides to make that crappy pun.

I don't miss out where Vedius says it's skepticism, I just know he never would've gotten there if the other caster didn't remind him there's another side to the coin.

They don't mention that Galio's ult was down AFTER THE FIGHT. Yes, they state it was used when it was used (duh?). If you're going to spend time to go back and talk about a close fight where each team gets 3 kills then the fact that Sion wasn't there and the fact that Galio didn't have his ult to contribute are important details to include when talking about why the fight was as close as it was. There was a lane ward (by SUP) near ASC's mid tower. If you look carefully, ASC go through this ward, and shortly after it expires. The problem is that once ASC entered the top side of their jungle Gragas E's over the wall into the top lane mid brush and Alistar hex flashes over. They don't talk about it. Then Sion gets caught as he roams to mid lane since he has no clue they are there as he wouldn't have known that they jumped over that wall. NONE OF THAT got talked about. It's not nit-picking, you twat. It's pure negligence of detail on the caster's part.

You think the chatter about item usage is equal? It's not. Pretty sure they never mentioned him using his Spellbinder in fights, and probably never mentioned the use of his Hextech Protobelt either. Did they mention he built these things? Sure. But they don't ever talk about how he actually used them.

I didn't go to 3:22:40. I didn't go through the entire game. I literally found a close together chain of events to use as an example of what I'm talking about.

I do make a fair argument. Go through a DOTA chain of events and tell me how many things they miss. We're talking 5 minutes here and I found all of that? Like, c'mon man.

THIS IS WORLDS. WORLDS IS A BIG DEAL. Furthermore, who cares if it's TI8 or Worlds? It's all important - A tournament is a tournament. If the casters can't make it seem relevant and like it matters no matter what setting it's in then I think that further speaks to the fact that they aren't very good at what they do.

The reason we like Korean LOL casters is because they hype things up, they get emotional about it. Why is that? Because Korea is the most competitive region and IT ALL MATTERS.

Your argument isn't an argument. You're just saying that my argument isn't good enough... And it is. You just hate how good it is and don't want to put in the effort to give an actual account of how DOTA casters aren't as good as LOL casters... Probably because you know they're better.

If you think otherwise then do it. Show me how deficient a DOTA caster is. You won't be able to.

The comparison is not BS. It doesn't matter what game you pick. The casters did a damn fine job casting that teamfight regardless. A teamfight is a teamfight. Either you're going to get the details right or you aren't. These guys doing the LOL casts spend hours casting fights. It's not foreign to them.

Give me a break dude. You're just making excuses at this point. An entire post of excuses is sad.

I gave you 2 minutes of a DOTA teamfight. If you want more footage, watch more of that game! The whole game is good. If you wanted more fuel for the fire to support my side of the argument that is literally ALL that you had to do to do it. Easy. Educate yourself, like I said. You literally asked me to write a damn wall for you. Be appreciative that you even got that.

During the first 3 minutes of this game you linked the casters do more analysis of how lanes are going to go than LOL casters ever do. In a LOL game they'd be talking about stats or some other irrelevant crap because in LOL they've basically decided that the first 4-6 minutes of the game don't matter since people rarely invade and they know the action will be low-key until the early levels 3-4, and then obviously 6 are achieved. By and large it's time that LOL casters will waste without a second thought. It's a clear difference.

Let's look at the first few moments of the game of LOL I linked you. 2:59:40-3:02:40: https://youtu.be/22yDZ5WZpA4?t=10780

Here you'll see that the LOL casters spend basically the entire first 3 minutes of this game talking about the difference between Fiora vs. Sion and Camille vs. Sion. While doing so, they completely ignore HOW Jarvan IV set himself up to steal Blue from Gragas. Eventually they briefly mention that he cleared Blue, then Red, then went to steal the Blue... But how did he even know to go there in the first place? What gave away that the Blue wouldn't have already been dead that far into the game? If you play Jungle and are watching this game THAT is what you want to know so you can get better. After all, he had time to take 2 buffs before going there. They don't talk about any of the other lanes and how they're going to go. They don't talk about any of the possible item builds that each team could go for. All of this time is pretty much wasted talking about things that Silver and Gold players already know... Comparing a matchup of a champion that isn't even in the game to the matchup that's actually happening. Why even bother? Just talk about the matchup that's actually happening. They do eventually get to it but, man, they sure do take forever to do it... Just buying time for ultimates to come online so they can focus on ONLY that (and of course, macro) for most of the remaining time they cast.

Now if you watch the first 3 minutes of the DOTA game you linked me, or even the first 3 minutes of the one that I linked you're going to find that the casters are talking about way more stuff that's relevant to the actual game being played. You can check yourself.

TI8 Grand Finals (me): https://youtu.be/_98FZZdbzsE?t=143 Earlier TI8 Game (you): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3916&amp=&v=vibRJC5E9GA

In the game I linked, not even 3 minutes in and they do a 3-way split of the screen and talk about EVERY. SINGLE. LANE. In the game you linked, right out of the gate talking about EVERY. SINGLE. LANE.

LOL is nowhere close dude. Get over it. You're all fanboys and refuse to accept facts. Night. And. Day.

You linked me a DOTA game in its entirety and didn't really even talk about any of the casting within it. What kind of BS argument is THAT dude? You're not even trying here. Try or go away. Stop wasting both our time.

GeminiRuneOct 5, 20181 votes

I gave you more than what you gave me. I can go further than that but you do some better homework for once. You're not willing to be credible unless it's Korean casting which you probably can't even understand just like me. So anything you say now means nothing to me.

Now you said in other comments you were done. Please...be done...especially if opinions that are against yours are so trivial.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

EFFORTLESS. TROLLS. GET. OUT. OF. HERE. F**king BS you gave me more than I gave you. LOL.

Me do some homework? I have gone to extensive lengths to give you guys ACTUAL EXAMPLES. You haven't done shit! Lol!

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 5, 20181 votes

You also missed everything that happened with the ward as you're calling what I said nit-picking.

There's a ward there, in the frickin' lane. They see ASC's jungler and support leave the lane over the top of the bush because of that ward. They have NO CLUE that they jump the wall. None. Zero. And because they jumped the wall SUP didn't see them with their river pink ward. It was a very good dodge of all the vision that SUP could've seen their position with that made it a fairly unpredictable gank. Wasn't mentioned at all as part of the setup that went into that gank. Literally 40 seconds before it happened they'd set it up despite the ward coverage on both sides of that brush by SUP.

Also, no one is gonna hear a Corki ult over some guy yelling into a microphone. Get real man. You can hardly hear the in-game sounds in these casts - then not to mention that he's literally diving into the back line and gets a kill with it? C'mon... It's not nit-picking. You're just whining and you give no argument to actually support your views, just to insult mine.

You have an opinion. You have done absolutely nothing to make an argument for why LOL casters are just as good as DOTA casters.

Your opinions are going to remain inferior until you can actually back them up with some specific examples instead of just insulting the examples I gave you. Telling me they aren't credible even though they're facts just makes you look like a dipshit.

You took an entire thread about casters and made it about me. Any idea how idiotic and childish that is? You're asking me to cast games. I'm not paid to do it, am I? How does them sucking at their job make it my job? And you're not the only person to do that in this thread. Fucking trolls. Stay on topic or gtfo.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 7, 20181 votes

Prime Example: https://clips.twitch.tv/OilyMoistLobsterKappaPride

If you look at where the wave is at it's obvious that Perkz is intentionally trying to get them to dive because INF have Baron and without minions the Baron is neutralized. He knows he has Zhonya's, he knows he has his dash available... And Vedius states it's a massive fail, but it's the only reason that G2 come back into this game.

They're going back and doing a replay and this guy is so massively wrong anyway. It's just sad. He was wrong during the first time going through it as well, stating it was a mistake and that Perkz didn't want to be there.

IALL ARE MUTEDIOct 9, 20181 votes

I forget which one of you asked me to shoutcast... I'm not gonna do a current version, but if you're interested here was a clip of me trolling and doing a bit of shoutcasting from 4 years ago. Interestingly enough, this is about what you get if Vedius/Drakos is casting... So I find that sort of laughable. With a bit of practice at rattling off random details from previous matches I could totally cast the LCS. Especially if I don't talk like a retard while I do it.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/48597495