MSI 2016 Power Rankings

Riot·May 2, 2016·1 votes·80,218 views

The regional leagues have completed their first split, with the champions of each region earning the right to battle each other at the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational.

Unlike Worlds, the MSI competition is stiffer pound for pound. Rather than having to compete against the top two or three teams from major regions, we get only the very best.

Every game matters. Every game is punishing.

Coming into MSI 2016, we asked ourselves: What are we expecting when rookies go up against World Champions? Which teams are favored in regional rematches? Who's going to take home the trophy this year? And so much more…

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In this special edition of Power Rankings, we're ranking the perceived power of every team heading into MSI 2016.

So how are we ranking these teams against each other? What do we need to keep in mind?

Cross regional play is dated and unreliable. Worlds 2015 was a long time ago. The game has changed substantially since then. IEM Katowice was more recent, but was also a short tournament with a limited field of teams. While past international play is factored in decision making, it cannot be the sole argument.
“The eye test” is a subjective term, but it's what we have to heavily rely on to rank the teams. By the eye test, we mean: How good does a team look? How coordinated are their engages? How cohesive are their team comps? Will their strategies hold up at the international level? Different analysts will have different opinions on this, and those opinions are at the core of an international Power Rankings.
Regional metas. We’ve heard of “patch reliant teams” but we also have to factor in how champions have different priorities across different regions. Sivir was the most Picked/Banned champion on Patch 6.6 in Korea, yet didn’t see a pick or ban in the NA finals. Who are today's popular picks good for?

But I’m not just going to tell you my opinion. I’m bringing in Spawn from China's LPL as well as Deficio from Europe's LCS so that we can each give our rankings and opinions on the teams.

One last thing.

A point value will be given to each team based on their rank in each of our lists.

1st - 5 pts
2nd - 4 pts
3rd - 3 pts
4th - 2 pts
5th - 1 points
6th - 0 points

Enough about the format, what are our rankings and why?

The clear favorite for each of us is SKTelecom T1, and for good reason. The team is the defending World Champion, hails from the strongest competitive region, and also just so happens to have the best player in the world: Faker. But that’s not to say upsets aren’t possible. In fact, SKT finished 2nd at last years Mid-Season Invitational.

The real pre-event debate centers around who will finish 2nd-5th.

Europe's G2 is a new team that only dropped three games during the regular EU LCS Spring Split. The LMS' Flash Wolves, who made it to the Quarterfinals at Worlds 2015, are making their MSI debut with four out of five players from last year's roster. North America's Counter Logic Gaming is also back on the international stage, trying to learn from their past appearances. China's Royal Never Give Up have gone from a Promotion Tournament team to LPL champions -- thanks in large part to the leadership of former Worlds MVP Mata .On the other hand, Turkey come in as huge underdogs. Even though IWC teams have won progressively more games at each year's Worlds, MSI is a different beast, as only the top teams from each region are competing.

So, what are our MSI Power Rankings?

Jatt

Korea - SKTelecom T1 (SKT)
China - Royal Never Give Up (RNG)
Europe - G2 Esports (G2)
LMS - Flash Wolves (FW)
North America - Counter Logic Gaming (CLG)
Turkey - SuperMassive (SUP)

For me, ranking MSI teams from 2-5 was nearly impossible. I could make arguments for FW, G2, RNG, or CLG to all take 2nd place. The way I settled on this list -- after placing SKT at #1 -- was to look at my arguments for why a team would finish 2nd and then decide which one was the most likely to hold true. The most likely gets ranked 2nd and the least likely gets 5th.

1. Korea

I’m very impressed by SKT for making it back to MSI yet again. We often take their dominance for granted. Since last year, they've integrated Duke into the top lane and also added a new jungler in Blank, and they still managed to win the most competitive region in the world. We'll see if they can continue to build on their history at MSI and claim another international crown.

2. China

Mata’s very own version of Samsung White. RNG's individual talent is very high, since they essentially took five of the best players from mid-tier LPL teams to form RNG. At MSI there’s a chance that they could unlock the talent of Xiaohu and MLXG and merge it with the experience of Mata and Looper to surge to 2nd. I also think that their macro ineptitude is overblown. When I watch them, I see a very aggressive team that makes some big mistakes, but also makes the right choices often. Not to mention RNG also sports the same coaching staff that helped Royal Club make it to two World Championship Finals.

3. Europe

This up and coming EU team combines young individual talent like Perkz. They also have strong map movements and decision making. I’ve been impressed with G2’s drafting all split and I expect it to stay strong at MSI. I also think the current tanky top lane meta favors G2. If they can deal with the pressure of international play, I believe they can have a strong placement at MSI. Yet they are an extremely young and untested team, so that's why they land at 3rd.

4. LMS

Flash Wolves make their MSI debut with four out of five of their Worlds 2015 roster. Despite a lackluster regular season, they team had a stellar playoffs. They're experienced and had the cleanest looking Finals compared to the other three LMS teams. That being said, having a ‘clean Finals’ can also be due to having a lackluster opponent, and it's not enough of a reason for me to rank them too highly. I feel that they are slightly edged out by RNGs individual skill and G2’s teamplay, which makes me place them 4th.

5. North America

Faith has no place in Power Rankings, unfortunately. While many will point to Stixxay as the reason CLG will fall on the international stage, I think he'll be fine. He showed tremendous growth during the 2016 NA LCS Spring Split and the ADC competition at MSI isn’t nearly as daunting as the mid lane competition. While CLG have fantastic teamwork and a strong coaching staff, I think it'll be hard for them to overcome what looks to be big mismatches in the mid lane. Also, even though Darshan had success on Poppy in the NA Finals, she's been heavily nerfed in MSI's Patch 6.8. If CLG can find a way to re-invent the top lane meta, they can surge to 2nd, but I don’t think that’s likely for MSI.

6. Turkey

Last year Thaldrin and Dumbledoge played at MSI on Beşiktaş e-Sports Club and they didn’t win a single game. At Worlds, when the IWC teams play the 2nd and 3rd place teams from other regions I think taking wins is more likely. But at MSI, when it’s the #1 team from every region, I think it gets much harder. As mentioned before, upsets aren't impossible, and the players on SUP have grown a lot since last year. But still, I don’t expect a win from SuperMassive at this year's MSI.

Spawn

The Mid-Season Invitational is such a difficult event to even pretend to predict which team will win. Last year’s tournament showed us that we were wrong about strengths and weaknesses of regions and that winning streaks were means to be broken. Here's my take on how things might play out this year.

Korea - SKTelecom T1 (SKT)
Europe - G2 Esports - (G2)
China - Royal Never Give Up (RNG)
LMS - Flash Wolves (FW)
North America - Counter Logic Gaming (CLG)
Turkey - SuperMassive (SUP)

This year the only team returning to MSI is SKT and with them I want to start my rankings.

1. Korea

In my opinion, SKT are unquestionably the strongest team heading into the tournament. After a sluggish LCK season, SKT features powerhouses in every lane, and their integration of Duke and Blank is complete. Plus, World Champions Faker, Bang and Wolf are still playing top tier League of Legends.

2. Europe

This slot was nearly impossible to award for me between RNG, FW and G2. But after last year's Worlds I have learnt the error of my ways (not really). The reason G2 won out is because of their jungle and mid lane synergy, a good top lane tank player in Kikis, and “calculated” EU aggression. G2’s ability to 1-3-1 split push, whilst playing team fighting comps, is fantastic to watch. Furthermore, they rarely hesitate on a call and they're ruthless with gold leads. My concern is experience, but their Final against OG was enough to dispel the thought that this would make them change away from their explosive playstyle.

3. China

Royal Never Give Up went 13-3 during their regular season, came 1st in group B (the stronger group in LPL) and smashed Edward Gaming in the LPL Finals. With World Champions Mata and Looper -- and a great array of Chinese carries in MLXG, Xiaohu and Wuxxin -- I feel they could have a great chance at victory in Shanghai. This team's excellent at team fighting, but I can't place them too much higher, as they still need to perfect their early game and aggressive map movements.

4. LMS

After a season marred with inconsistency and a bizarre Finals versus ahq -- who looked uncharacteristically poor -- it makes it difficult to measure the Flash Wolves' true strength, and doesn't leave me confident enough to place them higher in my ranks. Maple and Karsa return for the Wolves and at MSI will need to dominate mid lane and jungle duos from other regions. Yet as this year's MSI is a tournament stacked in both roles, I feel a lot of the difficulties from last year’s Worlds will show. The pressure will be on NL and MDD to step up.

5. North America

If CLG perform well at MSI, it will be through strong macro play and playmaking by Aphromoo and Darshan. The reason NA's team is so low in my rankings is because I don't strongly believe CLG's veterans are enough to cover Stixxay and Huhi. Stixxay had a great NA LCS Playoffs, however, he relies very heavily on Caitlyn, Tristana and Ezreal -- all champions that have a punishable early to mid game. This could lead to mid game slumps with CLG using weaker than usual comps. Additionally, while Huhi's versatile, he still relatively new playing on the international stage. Even though he's confident, he may find himself outclassed versus the likes of Xiaohu, Maple, Perkz, and Faker.

6. Turkey

SUP had a really solid International Wildcard Invitational, beating out Hard Random to win it all. The newly formed TCL super team got off to a slow start during the regular season, but closed out strong versus Beşiktaş in the Finals and hasn’t skipped a beat since (well, maybe once to INTZ in Groups of IWCI...). But MSI is another type of beast. I have faith SUP can win a game here and do Turkey and the IWC region proud, but a tournament against the top teams from each region is going to be a tough mountain to scale with a team formed just four months ago...

Deficio

While last year we could realistically predict a non-Korean team to win the Mid-Season Invitational due to the Korean exodus, this year they don't face the same challenges. SKT come in as the big favorite and they may go undefeated. We then have four extremely close teams in level and ranking them was not an easy task. Therefore, I'm only going to spend time talking about teams in spots 2-6. I based my rankings mainly on consistency in the team’s macro moves and how well their players can perform in the current Patch 6.8 meta.

Korea - SKTelecom T1 (SKT)
Europe - G2 Esports - (G2)
LMS - Flash Wolves (FW)
China - Royal Never Give Up (RNG)
North America - Counter Logic Gaming (CLG)
Turkey - SuperMassive (SUP)

2. Europe

A great combination of individual talent in key positions combined with smart preparation has made G2 a very consistent team that understands their strengths and weaknesses. Also, the current meta is perfect for G2 as a team. Kikis' favoring tanks predated the meta shift and the team boasts the strongest mid/jungle duo in Europe in Perkz and Trick.

Carry junglers and high impact mid lane picks makes it easy for them to control the game and execute their high tempo 1-3-1 playstyle with a focus on side lane pressure and deep vision. Plus, support Hybrid shines in team fights while understanding that he's never required to win his lane together with ADC Emperor. The lack of true lane dominant bot lanes at MSI is another advantage for G2.

3. LMS

Flash Wolves players remind me a lot of G2’s and they benefit from the meta equally as much as their European counterpart. MMD and NL are role players. Top laner MMD plays tanks and AD carry NL plays wave clear bottom. Jungler Karsa and mid laner Maple are the LMS editions of Trick and Perkz, and they will be able to carry FW forward. Support SwordArt is the enabler and he will never hesitate to engage a fight with his team right behind him.

FW plays a lot like an aggressive LPL team, but they have a better understanding of how to play the map. This makes Flash Wolves a more complete and consistent team who won’t fall apart if they don’t have a lead at 15 minutes, which also puts them above RNG for me.

4. China

Strong players, a legendary Worlds MVP captain, and a fantastic mindset towards aggression means that RNG games will never bore you. Yet I have a love hate relationship with this team.

I love their ability to team fight properly.
I love their ability to pick the correct skirmish and create pressure through invades and deep vision in the enemy jungle.
I hate the way they lane swap and how they make overly aggressive calls.

RNG prefer to kill you instead of your tower, leading to messy and inconsistent games. They get away with this macro in China's LPL, but they struggled at IEM when Fnatic played the map. Both G2 and FW can match their skill level and play the map better. If teams don't play to RNG's style, RNG will struggle at MSI.

5. North America

I'm a big fan of teams who play the map well. Lane swaps, minion wave pressure, and punishing opponent mistakes. CLG does all of this well against teams in North America. However, they've got two clear weaknesses I can't ignore. First, it's their individual talent. Huhi can't compare to Faker, Perkz or Maple. Stixxay and Xmithie also had good Playoff performances but will need to step up more at MSI.

Second, CLG need Darshan on a split pusher to shine. They struggled in the Finals vs. TSM whenever they had to be in the driver's seat. Without Darshan's split pushing to force mistakes, the teams at MSI won't give as many opportunities to CLG as TSM did. I want CLG to do well because I like their style and identity, but I think they will be outmatched individually in most games. Lane swapping and playing the PvE game is the way for Counter Logic Gaming to win.

6. Turkey

SuperMassive comes into the tournament as the best Turkish team we have ever seen. They have strong enough individual players to potentially pull an upset in this tournament, but I don't think it'll be anywhere near enough to advance beyond the Group Stage.

Total point rankings

Korea - SKT - 15 points
Europe - G2 - 11 points
China - RNG - 9 points
LMS - FW - 7 points
North America - CLG - 3 points
Turkey - SUP - 0 points

Overall, China shows the most variance. I have them at 2nd, Spawn has them 3rd, and Deficio has them at 4th. While we stated that all four teams after Korea were close, by consistently ranking North America at 5th, we have them ranked as underdogs to make it to the Bracket Stage. If this were to be broken down into a tiered ranking, we would have:

S - SKT
A - G2, RNG, FW
B - CLG
C - SUP

So while the point system shows a large spread, Spawn, Deficio, and I think MSI will be a very competitive event in the middle. Also, keep in mind that these are just predictions, and there are a ton of factors that can influence the outcome of the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational that we can’t account for in this article.

Actually, scratch that. Whoever has the worst predictions should be burned at the stake, and have their credibility as analysts forever called into question!

But now that you’ve seen what Spawn, Deficio, and I have had to say, what do you think? Leave your MSI 2016 Power Rankings below and be sure to watch MSI on Lolesports from May 4 - 15.

115 Comments

IWillDeliverMay 3, 20164 votes

I don't understand how you can put CLG lower then G2. G2 is legit a new team no international experience. CLG has international experience and works better as a team. They're the definition of a team. But that's okay keep putting NA down, to CLG they'll just prove you all wrong.

HelkijoMay 3, 20163 votes

I am going to use Montecristo's logic which led to predicting semifinals. G2-2 koreans CLG-0(i belive, don't know bout Huhi) So let's break down lane matchups Top lane: Darshan is easily more skilled mehanicly than Kikis, but we are still in a tank meta so he can't snowball out if control. Jungle: Trick EU MVP, Xmithie not even close to NA MVP + EU>NA Mid lane: Febiven 1v1ed Faker and Perkz destroys Febiven in lane, while Huhi can't keep up with the best mid laners NA(Froggen,Bjergsen,Pobelter and Fenix are better) Bot lane: Emperor plays real safe and Hybrid always protect him so no real kill pressure from the only lane that can really win the game in the current meta. So G2>>>>>>>>>>>>CLG

BoomDracoMay 4, 20163 votes

You forgot about Jensen FeelsBadMan

sKz Aaron DMay 5, 20161 votes

https://imgflip.com/i/13lzyj Edit: Actually, IMO I would put Jensen up there and take down Fenix. How good is he really if he never wins lane, never roams and wins other lanes, and is only useful through farming until 30 minutes?

Koro5enseiMay 11, 20161 votes

That seems like a reasonable analysis. Just Xmithie is terribly under rated this season and the CLG bot lane is surprisingly strong.

LuggMay 3, 20163 votes

Faker the best player in the world? That's pretty hilarious considering he is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on his own team! Bang and Benji are both playing better than him. You can even argue that Wolf is more valuable to SKT than Faker is. If you look at the stats from the Spring Split in Korea, Faker is only the 4th best mid in the region. Yes, Faker is probably the greatest player ever, but he definitely isn't the best player now.

EDIT: Just to add on, I guess no one remembers Froggen beating Faker 1v1 at All Stars.

L Aveugle AmourMay 3, 20168 votes

That's why Blank played almost the whole season instead of Bengi, right? Plz don't even try to show off ur shallow knowledge about LCK. Why is Faker only the 4th best mid in Korea? He just won the LCK Spring. That's not enough?

LuggMay 3, 20161 votes

Sorry, Faker didn't win Spring, his team did. Look at the stats and try to dispute what I said.

AírMay 3, 20166 votes

Keep in mind that stats and KDA do not define who is and who is not a great player, especially at the pro scene where team play and objective control takes higher priority than picks and kills. And one's KDA.

So why do we call Faker the best player? Well, let us look into that. There are two pieces that go into that - neither of which is KDA -: general mechanics and teamwork. Now for general mechanics, Faker is undeniably the best consistently - more so than other players who may have more "bad games" than he might, especially if he is on his comfort picks which consists of a variety of assassins such as lb and zed - ever since his debut as such with the great Zed outplay vs Ryu in season 3. His teamwork is what truly puts him over the top though. He is willing to do anything to guarantee his team the win in fights and the game overall.

For example, during Season 5 Worlds in the series between SKT and H2K, Faker played azir (a champion he is not as comfortable on but played for the team) vs. Ryu's lb. There was one crucial play that had occur as a bait to eventually get the ace. Due to the incredible amount of focus put on Faker during that entire game to shut him down, he understood two crucial aspects of that particular match: a) he was not the strongest on the team in result, Marin's Fiora was and b) H2K was willing to burn an incredible amount of abilties if it meant he would die. Therefore, he went in on the enemy ADC, got her extremely low (about 15-20% hp) before burning Gragas ultimate, sivir ultimate, Gragas Flash, and provoking a flash ult from Gnar after he died. Due to the amount burned on making sure Faker died and than the cocky attitude aquired by H2K afterwords believing that the most feared person was down and the fight as their's to win, SKT got an ace without dropping anyone else.

source: https://youtu.be/393TT9Fji24?t=1m53s

Overall, I just want to point out that figuring who truly is the best player can be difficult, especially since games have become even more teamwork rather than individual laning oriented since Faker's debut in season 3. I just have a personal grudge against people who think that the best player is really just who has the best KDA. As a support main, I take great offense to that. It is that very attitude that can lose games because sometimes people go for a kill instead of a win or refuse to die for the team so that their team can sweep and win the game.

DLeetionMay 3, 20163 votes

Using number lines and stats without any context to justify your claim goes to prove how insightful you are. It seems to me that you believe your perspective about Faker is the correct, unbiased one. The analysts who took part in creating the power rankings aren't based in Korea, they use statistics to greater depth, and they analyze game-winning fights and macro play to determine how a team utilizes their win conditions. If you had listened in to ANY of the casters or analysts during LCK Spring Playoffs, you would know that Faker was instrumental in SKT's victory. You have to look past the numbers to see that Faker hasn't even been playing carry mids for a good majority of the split, and while I can't disagree with you in that Bang is looking incredibly consistent and reliable, Bengi has been subbed for the past several weeks. So please, next time you make a rash opinion on a player that may offend fans of said player, do the actual research and avoid making a fool out of yourself.

LuggMay 4, 20161 votes

I posted an opinion base on the quantifiable stats. The Faker fanboys just can't handle the truth that this isn't season 3 anymore. Faker is still a great player and knows how to win, but he hasn't even been the best player on his own team the last two seasons. The stats don't lie.

L Aveugle AmourMay 4, 20164 votes

Ok. Faker deals the most in almost every teamfight. By the way, have you even ever watched this Spring LCK final? I don't think you watched it. If you watched it, then you couldn't say like this. I think you just hate Faker. With the stats that are meaningless. Faker has a low KDA because he plays aggressively.

LuggMay 4, 20161 votes

He dies a lot because he goes ham and gets out of position. If you watch LCK, you know he is in bad positions quite often in fights going for kills. I don't hate Faker at all, he is awesome to watch. However I don't blinding give into the hype like most people.

L Aveugle AmourMay 4, 20163 votes

Can you even refute to my comments other than this? You did not use some facts and commented with your own opinion. Plz do so when commenting next time.

OHminusMay 4, 20161 votes

He's not going for kills; he's going for the damage so his team can follow up and finish the job. Please look at the examples I gave to you in the other post.

I cannot believe how ignorant you actually are. Who do you think is better? Bjergsen? Perkz? Froggen? KuRO? Pawn? Coco? Jensen?

JangbolsalMay 14, 20161 votes

lol faker with highest death rate in LCK? Where does this come from? This is just impossible. Simply check Sbenu's mid records before you even talk Lugg

EPIKONMay 3, 20169 votes

It's that time of the year for this midget to BS about nothing that he knows about.

Move along people, nothing to see here.

LuggMay 3, 20163 votes

If you provided some actual facts, people might take you seriously.

Theunknown4294May 3, 201611 votes

Ok I'll give you a fact. Bengi didn't play almost all of the second half of the regular season and didn't play a single playoff game.

OHminusMay 3, 20168 votes

Bump. Remember, Lugg said Benji, not Bengi, soo...

JangbolsalMay 3, 20167 votes

I'll give you another fact. Lugg predicted korea will fall at this year's IEM and china teams will crash every other teams. Anybody remember what happened?

OHminusMay 4, 20164 votes

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Lugg also said SKT would lose at last year's worlds and that Faker was washed up after the tournament because Marin won MVP, not Faker.

Arteisia KyroMay 4, 20164 votes

Yeah dude. This guy is really really mad. Oh wait... Did I just see that he was Bronze 5 during S5? Is that NA is see? Even Doublelift knows when to trash talk, but boy this guy seriously needs to cool off xD

sKz Aaron DMay 5, 20162 votes

Would it have really made a difference if he was from EUW? EUNE? OCE? JP? Why does it matter that he's from NA? I'll happily admit that CLG is probably going to get 5th, and it would be a miracle for them to make it to the bracket stage. And I'm from NA.

Arteisia KyroMay 7, 20161 votes

The NA part's just a joke xD But Bronze 5 is a fact, and lolking has it to prove that, haha.

OHminusMay 3, 20165 votes

Ahhhh... Lugg strikes again. Bengi (not Benji) is not even playing; he's retired. Blank is the new starting jungler for SKT. Looking at stats gets you nowhere. Look at the games. Faker constantly gets ganked by the enemy jungler and sometimes the enemy support and top laner. Hence, he started to play safer mid laners such as Lulu, Azir, Corki, and Lissandra. The Faker we see now definitely is not the Faker of season 3 or season 5; however, he's contributing what's needed to the team. Blank's and Bang's stats simply look better because they're playing high damage champions like Kindred, Graves, Elise (Blank) and Lucian, Ezreal (Bang). Faker these days hardly pulls out the Zed, Leblanc, and Ahri picks we all loved him for in seasons 3 -5. I recommend you start watching LCK before you start commenting on it, rather than just looking at stats to prove that Faker is not the best mid laner in LCK rn. Counterarguments: KuRO, Coco, and Jin Air's Kuzan can all make cases for being Korea's best mid laner. However, any way you look at it, Coco and Kuzan underperformed at key times (Coco's team didn't even make playoffs and he was benched a couple of times for Frozen), and Kuzan simply crumbles under jungle pressure. KuRO is the only arguable case against Faker, and even he seems worse in the games. His main picks this split were Viktor, Lissandra, Varus, and Twisted Fate; he's simply awful on champs like Lulu and Azir. Peanut's aggressive jungling style also allows KuRO to play aggressive and roam the map to pick up kills. And, quoting you, KuRO isn't even the best player on his team; rather, he's the worst. Smeb, Peanut, GorillA and even PraY are all better mechanically and have carried more games than KuRO. While KuRO is undeniably a good mid laner, his do or die decsion making (he got caught out multiple times in game 4 of the finals) and his more aggressive champ pool makes him only look better than Faker on paper; he's not really better.

LuggMay 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ahhhh... Lugg strikes again. Bengi (not Benji) is not even playing; he's retired. Blank is the new starting jungler for SKT.

You are right, I got the killer B's mixed up. My bad.

Looking at stats gets you nowhere. Look at the games. Faker constantly gets ganked by the enemy jungler and sometimes the enemy support and top laner. Hence, he started to play safer mid laners such as Lulu, Azir, Corki, and Lissandra. The Faker we see now definitely is not the Faker of season 3 or season 5; however, he's contributing what's needed to the team. Blank's and Bang's stats simply look better because they're playing high damage champions like Kindred, Graves, Elise (Blank) and Lucian, Ezreal (Bang). Faker these days hardly pulls out the Zed, Leblanc, and Ahri picks we all loved him for in seasons 3 -5. I recommend you start watching LCK before you start commenting on it, rather than just looking at stats to prove that Faker is not the best mid laner in LCK rn.

Stats don't lie and I do watch the LCK games. Faker gets ganked the same amount as the other mids in Korea. He is playing safer champs because he can't double kill enemies like he used too. Plus he is playing support and utility champs because he is no longer the main carry on his team and this is the best way for his team to win.

Counterarguments: KuRO, Coco, and Jin Air's Kuzan can all make cases for being Korea's best mid laner. However, any way you look at it, Coco and Kuzan underperformed at key times (Coco's team didn't even make playoffs and he was benched a couple of times for Frozen), and Kuzan simply crumbles under jungle pressure. KuRO is the only arguable case against Faker, and even he seems worse in the games. His main picks this split were Viktor, Lissandra, Varus, and Twisted Fate; he's simply awful on champs like Lulu and Azir. Peanut's aggressive jungling style also allows KuRO to play aggressive and roam the map to pick up kills. And, quoting you, KuRO isn't even the best player on his team; rather, he's the worst. Smeb, Peanut, GorillA and even PraY are all better mechanically and have carried more games than KuRO. While KuRO is undeniably a good mid laner, his do or die decsion making (he got caught out multiple times in game 4 of the finals) and his more aggressive champ pool makes him only look better than Faker on paper; he's not really better.

The biggest argument against Faker for the the Spring is this. He was funneled more gold than ANY of the other mids in Korea. With that kind of income, Faker should easily be #1 statistically, but he is middle of the pack. So he is losing fights even though he is ahead in gold. If you are the best player, that shouldn't be happening.

Like I have said before, Faker is a great player, but he is no longer the best in the world. I guess people have really short memories since Froggen beat Faker 1v1 at the All Stars playing identical champs.

AclaimMay 4, 20164 votes

All Stars really isn't worth mentioning dude. That was all just for fun, people not playing too seriously. I mean, Froggen also lost to Doublelift in the most stupid way. And do you really think Faker was just as practiced as Froggen was at Anivia? If you want to use stuff from before this season, you could say ALL of SKT suck becuase they got stomped by EVER during the KeSPA cup. And the KeSPA cup should be MORE relevant than All Stars. I think you're right about Faker playing a more supportive role this split, but All Stars really doesn't add anything to your case. I don't get why you think its a relevant point.

OHminusMay 4, 20164 votes

All stars by no means determines how good a player is. Since doublelift won worlds, I guess he's the best player in the world kappa.
Faker doesn't get "funneled" gold. He creates gold leads by himself by efficiently farming, zoning out the enemy mid laner (which in turn makes the stats look like KuRO or Kuzan aren't being funneled gold), and teleporting throughout the map to make plays and get kills, which net him gold. The reason Faker "loses" even though he's technically ahead is because Faker draws the attention of the enemy team. Against H2K, Faker knew he wasn't ahead on Azir so he went in to chunk Hjarnan, and subsequently drew Loulex's flash, E and ult, along with Ryu's burst combo. Faker eventually dies, but this allows MaRin to safely come in and ult Ryu, therefore winning the fight. Next, against EDG, Faker gets 3 man ganked in the mid lane; Meiko uses flash tibbers, Clearlove uses j4 ult. What happens at the fight that happens 15 sec later at dragon? EDG has no form of cc or engage and lose the fight as a result. In this spring split, it hasn't been any different. In the last game of Spring finals, you see Peanut trying to gank Faker numerous times; sometimes he succeeds, and sometimes he fails. This allows Blank, Duke and Bang to then draw gold leads and pressure on their sides of the map because the other team isn't pressuring them.
He is playing support and utility champs? I said he was playing safer mid laners; he plays Lulu and Karma, but as i mentioned, he also played a lot of Corki, Azir, and Lissandra. He even played TF, Ryze, and Cass. Faker is still one of the primary carries of the team. When the team calls on him to play a high damage mid laner, he does it quite well.
If you watched LCK then I really don't know how you 1. spelled Bengi as Benji and 2. got the junglers mixed up when Blank has clearly been starting for the last, what, 25 games? It seems to me that you watched LCK earlier (before IEM) and looked at Faker's stats then. Your argument here is the exact same as it was in IEM. How right were you then? I distinctly remember the final game at IEM when Faker pulled out Zed (an assassin carry) against Febiven and rekt his ass, and then proceeded to dominate the game. Faker plays an aggressive style, which leads to him dying, but he deals out the most damage on his team. Bang has an exquisite KDA because his team peels for him and he plays adcs like Lucian, Kalista, Ezreal and Sivir.
Disclaimer: I am not a Faker fanboy. My favorite team is CJ Entus. It's simply the fact that one just has to acknowledge how great Faker truly is right now; he used to be an assassin carry god but now he's expanded his champ pool to fill any role his team needs. To discredit Faker as not important to his team's success is a low blow coming from someone who mixes up SKT's starting jungler (which is very old news).

LuggMay 4, 20161 votes

Yeah, All Stars is mostly for fun. But if you think Faker didn't try his best to win against Froggen, you obviously don't know Faker at all.
Yes, Faker outfarms pretty much everyone, so he doesn't need much help in the gold department. However, his team does donate gold and kills to him when they can. I also agree that Faker draws attention mid, but so does pretty much every good mid in every region. I do agree with you that if he "loses" by dying but that leads to an objective for his team, it's a win. I am in no way saying he isn't a great player, I have always said that. The point I am trying to make is that it's very debatable if he's still the best player.
Faker is still great on assassins and can carry games for sure. The amount of times he does this now is way down from what he used to do. That is why SKT recruited other carries, to help fill that gap. I actually have a ton of respect for Faker since he adjusted to a new role of supporting and aiding his team to win rather than being the main man every game.
I already addressed the Bengi thing in a previous post. As for the Zed game, not to make excuses, but Febiven was definitely tilting some at that point. In the first game, Febiven gave Faker all he could handle.

Faker still is, and probably always will be, a great player. There is little doubt that he was indeed the best player in the world in seasons 3 and 4. However, people seem blind to the fact that several mids have caught up to him and possibly passed him at this point.

OHminusMay 4, 20161 votes

Like I said, Faker vs Froggen on Anivia is obviously in Froggen's favor. Froggen's main champ is Anivia. Faker, despite his massive champ pool, rarely plays Anivia.
Name the mid laners that have caught up to him. I will be sure to make counterarguments for all of them. Thank you.

LuggMay 4, 20162 votes

And like I said, Faker could have chosen another champ, but he didn't. So it's his fault for opting into that matchup.

As for other mids, Froggen definitely comes to mind. He was player of the year in 2012 and his numbers are the same or better than Fakers despite being on a much worse team. Kuro's numbers this Spring regular season absolutely destroy Faker's. It's not even close. The poor guy got camped by entire teams in the playoffs he was dominating so much, and he still only died half as much as Faker. Frozen, Fly, and Kuzan all put up numbers similar to Faker. Pobelter's numbers this Spring were absolutely sick. Bjerg can never be counted out for individual skill, his numbers at IEM were pretty even with Faker, but Faker is a much better team player IMHO. Jensen is quickly getting to that level, but he is probably still a step down right now. Pawn wins lane against Faker the majority of times they have met.

So there are quite a few people who can challenge him at this stage.

OHminusMay 5, 20161 votes

Froggen can't even carry Echo Fox in NA. His stats were fairly good, but over the past three seasons, he wasn't able to do anything in the LCS or the internatinal stage. Next.
KuRO played 4 games in the playoffs, idiot. All of them against SKT. Peanut ganked mid lane more than Blank, and GorillA roamed up more than Wolf. Next.
Frozen and Fly have limited champion pools (Lux, Lissandra) and are considered the weak points of their teams. Kuzan has been good but got caught out multiple times, usually causing his team to become disadvantaged (he dies alone and doesn't do damage in return)
Pobelter's numbers this split have been good, but they have been only good last season and mediocre before then. This is definitely the effect of Reignover (the NA LCS MVP) ganking his lane quite often; the team built around him allows Pobelter to pick more aggressively because Reignover and Adrian provide so much peel.
Bjerg's laning phase is excellent. His decision making post laning phase and teamfighting? Not so much.
Jensen crumbles when he doesn't get his Orianna/Azir or assassins.
Pawn's stats in LPL haven't been great recently. I watched his games and his macro decision making has fallen off quite a bit. Also, watch EDG vs SKT at worlds last year. Or at MSI (besides the games where Pawn basically counterpicks Faker).

These mid laners, while good, don't have the impact on their teams like Faker has. Your arguments are full of holes. Faker, while not the runaway best player in the world, should at least be in the argument for it. 3rd or 4th best on his own team? You're really discrediting how much he contributes to SKT.

LuggMay 5, 20162 votes

I don't think Faker would help Echo Fox anymore than Froggen has done. It's pretty hard to win with a meh team.
Game 1: Faker had the only death on his team at 0/1/8, Kuro went 0/3/0 bad game for both players. Game 2: Faker 4/2/3, Kuro 5/0/5. Kuro beat him significantly. Game 3: Faker 2/5/8, Kuro 1/4/7. Bad game again for both players. Game 4: Faker 5/1/6, Kuro 2/3/4. Only great game of the whole series for Faker. So it was basically a draw between them this series. If you look at the regular season, Kuro beat him pretty handily.
Frozen had the highest KDA on his team and Fly had the 2nd highest on his, but nah they're the weakest members of their teams. Try again.
We are talking currently. Reignover's effect is about the same as Blank's is for Faker. And if you are trying to say that SKT doesn't peel for Faker, GTFO.
I agree with you.
Probably true, but he rarely plays champs outside his primary pool.
I agree that his macro play has slipped some, but that is probably due to communication issues with his team. It's always harder when you are playing with teammates that speak a different language. As for the counterpicks, that's just part of the game, you can't excuse that since Faker counterpicks as much as anyone.

I just wanted you to agree that Faker isn't the runaway best player in the world, which you did. There are some amazing mids playing right now. Faker has always been in the top 5 mids worldwide.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that Faker got schooled last night by the mid for RNG out of China. It was brutal to watch.

sKz Aaron DMay 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And like I said, Faker could have chosen another champ, but he didn't. So it's his fault for opting into that matchup.

As for other mids, Froggen definitely comes to mind. He was player of the year in 2012 and his numbers are the same or better than Fakers despite being on a much worse team. Kuro's numbers this Spring regular season absolutely destroy Faker's. It's not even close. The poor guy got camped by entire teams in the playoffs he was dominating so much, and he still only died half as much as Faker. Frozen, Fly, and Kuzan all put up numbers similar to Faker. Pobelter's numbers this Spring were absolutely sick. Bjerg can never be counted out for individual skill, his numbers at IEM were pretty even with Faker, but Faker is a much better team player IMHO. Jensen is quickly getting to that level, but he is probably still a step down right now. Pawn wins lane against Faker the majority of times they have met.

So there are quite a few people who can challenge him at this stage.

I just want to point out that you predicted Faker - Riots little poster boy for League - failing miserably at MSI and getting absolutely destroyed.

LuggMay 7, 20161 votes

What? I didn't say that at all. I said that there are a few mids in the world on his level.

However, he has been beaten by a couple mids so far at MSI.

ASH ISLANÐMay 4, 20162 votes

btw Bengi didnt retire.

0nly For TonightMay 4, 20162 votes

Believe it or not there is actually a reason why Faker's name is mentioned almost every time a League program is on. He is one of the top players in the World consistently. Of course, he had rough patches throughout the years, but he is the glue that has held SKT together since the beginning of their reign of terror upon the Rift. Any other players would of retired, or been discarded and sent to NA or EU. However, he hasn't - he is the constant player that SKT has had over the past 4-5 years? 2-1 Worlds wins and no telling how many other tournaments won so IDK how you can even not consider him as 1 out of 3 of the top players if not the top player in the World. On top of this all, he hasn't taken huge money offers to come and play for China - yet he remains loyal to his team. Look at all the great plays that have became less relevant after taking the path toward higher income in League history: Imp, Deft, Mata, Dandy, Marin, and so on have no where near the impact as they did when they played for their teams that made them famous to begin with. So was it really a win for these players? I don't think so - if they players would of stayed on their respective teams then no telling what would of happened throughout League history. Anyways, back to Faker: even when he split time with Easyhoon - he is the guy they trust to bring in on a 5 games series to get the win. Who else could just come in on game 5 in a big time series and play so well? No one that I can recall and I've been watching pro play in League for years. Faker stays relevant and for the team most often than not - overall stat wise and whatever games you may believe he hasn't done well was probably due to filling whatever role the team needed instead of putting on his carry pants every game. If SKT can unlock other players, create comps around them, and create plays then that ultimately takes pressure from him overall which will make his carry games better.

LuggMay 4, 20161 votes

Yes, there is a reason Faker is mentioned every time. He was indeed the top player in the world season 3 and 4. This elevated him to Michael Jordan levels of fame in the LoL community. So of course they are going to hype him. It generates TONS of money for them in Korea. He doesn't leave Korea because he makes way more money there just from endorsements than any salary a team could give him. He is still a great player and knows how to win. It's just that he is filling more of a support role than in the past.

L Aveugle AmourMay 4, 20161 votes

Can you refute my comment on this plz? I asked for this comment, not one above.

LuggMay 5, 20161 votes

I thought I did. I don't see the comment anymore on this thread, can you please restate it.

TAL SirDuracellMay 6, 20162 votes

Lugg, I read a lot of your comments. What you are saying is that there are a few mid laners that can replace faker on SKT and SKT will still have the same results. Am I right?

LuggMay 6, 20162 votes

Yes, I would say that there are probably 2-3 mids that would be able to pull it off. The key part would be the chemistry and teamwork. There are several mids now that are as good as he is mechanically. The big thing that keeps Faker in the hunt as best player in the world is his experience at this point.

TAL SirDuracellMay 7, 20161 votes

acknowledged

Guyy FieriMay 6, 20161 votes

Dude Faker was trolling so hard at 1 v 1. Not to mention he basically challenged Froggen to the 1 v 1 on his best champion. If that 1 v 1 is almost any other matchup Faker wins.

LuggMay 6, 20161 votes

I guess you haven't watched the severe beating Faker took from the RNG mid at MSI.

Guyy FieriMay 7, 20161 votes

Oh you mean when he got camped and targeted by all ofRNG...Ya because that's a fair way to tell someone's skill level

Faker, in a straight up 1v1 with nobody else taking would win nearly every time if not all the time. The catch is that teams know he is one of their tipping points and if he's ahead hell wreck so they want to make sure he never gets ahead. That's what Xmithie and CLG. Many ganks mid the only difference was Faker didn't get killed this time and managed to stay quite relevant throughout the game.

LuggMay 7, 20162 votes

Faker's first death that game was 1v1 and he made a Bronze level mistake by not backing when he was low health and OOM. It was pure luck he didn't die a minute later because he pushed too far without a flash. Then he does it again a minute later and dies again. The commentators even mentioned that he does this way too often.