Favorite Worlds Analyst

Orenin·Oct 5, 2015·1 votes·1,405 views

I really didn't like monte in previous years, but this year I like him a lot. He is the one pointing at teams weaknesses and calling on them to step up. When he isn't on the desk it turns into "Oh team X did this so well", "oh yes they did! and they also did this well" "what a great team, lets look at a teamfight". But with him you actually get analysis. It is fun to watch him eat his words if he is wrong.

Crumbzz is OK, he has good insight sometimes, but he needs to improve his eloquence on stage.

Zirene needs to do more analysis and less praising. It seems like he never says anything negative about any team. _if everyone is good, then no one is good.

Yamato is kind of fun to watch because he is not afraid to criticize, but he values consistency too much, and his analysis is lacking accuracy at times. But sometimes he is good.

Who is your favorite analyst?

22 Comments

The LexerOct 5, 20152 votes

Oh Yamato easy. He has a way of accidentally insulting every team and player but it all sounds so chill

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

well you see, my biggest problem with most analysts and especially casters is that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

montechristo for example was, in my eyes, a total fraud who more often than not led the audience astray instead of focusing on the important things. so much blabla and so little information from him. i dont remember which game it was, but this worlds i actually heared him say something useful once, that was nice for a change.

crumbzz is the only analyst who i can listen to more than 3 sentences but i agree, his eloquence is sometimes a bit lackluster. but i dont mind that, at least his words dont make me stomach go on a rampage.

yamatocannon aint the best "analyst" as he aint analyzing shit but i like that he criticizes things sometimes as i feel its a total taboo to be critical about anything having to do with riot or their employees or their events or their balance "attempts".

zirene is a joke. he never saith anything that has anything to do with anything and his idea about how the game works is that of a 2-years-old. honestly, if a team 5-man-engages on a megagnar in a chokepoint, thats not an amazing ult and so skilled from gnar, thats a freewin given to him by the other team. a bronze player would have made that ult happen the exact same way. its also not "amazing capitalization on enemys mistakes", no, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH GNAR.

i really have to say, aside from origen and skt, most teams dont win by their "amazing skill" but more by their opponents giving them freewins, but it has always been like that even in lcs and i didnt expect it to change here.

OreninOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well you see, my biggest problem with most analysts and especially casters is that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

montechristo for example was, in my eyes, a total fraud who more often than not led the audience astray instead of focusing on the important things. so much blabla and so little information from him. i dont remember which game it was, but this worlds i actually heared him say something useful once, that was nice for a change.

crumbzz is the only analyst who i can listen to more than 3 sentences but i agree, his eloquence is sometimes a bit lackluster. but i dont mind that, at least his words dont make me stomach go on a rampage.

yamatocannon aint the best "analyst" as he aint analyzing shit but i like that he criticizes things sometimes as i feel its a total taboo to be critical about anything having to do with riot or their employees or their events or their balance "attempts".

zirene is a joke. he never saith anything that has anything to do with anything and his idea about how the game works is that of a 2-years-old. honestly, if a team 5-man-engages on a megagnar in a chokepoint, thats not an amazing ult and so skilled from gnar, thats a freewin given to him by the other team. a bronze player would have made that ult happen the exact same way. its also not "amazing capitalization on enemys mistakes", no, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH GNAR.

i really have to say, aside from origen and skt, most teams dont win by their "amazing skill" but more by their opponents giving them freewins, but it has always been like that even in lcs and i didnt expect it to change here.

what point did you disagree with Monte on? He did an excellent job of explaining how C9s strategy of fastpushing 'hides' balls . I don't remember much else specifically but he has seemed sound to my way of thinking.

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

my problem with monte is not that i disagree with him but that everything he saith is absolutely mundane. he tries to be so fancy and analytic that he forgets what really actually happened in the game.

league of legends is actually a pretty simple game. the concepts behind strategies here are not very complex because you can only control 5 units at best and the vulnerabilities of objectives on the map are very limited so you can really only aggress on your opponent in straightforward ways. this makes league SIMPLE, in a strategic sense, but no analyst ever focuses on the ACTUAL things that lead to fights happening or teams winning/losing but always talks about some uninteresting stuff that never mattered.

how exactly did they "hide" balls. he took a jungle camp and then came to lane and froze it and got dived and then fnc just failed to keep darius zoned but instead left yasuo alone to get dived himself. when and where did they "hide" balls or when did their "fast push strategy" come into play? because pre 25 minutes, there was only one moment where they pushed bot and took the second tower that was their "play". every other play that ever happened pre25 was ON THEIR SIDE executed by fnatic. c9 was basically only defending because their comp needs time to ramp up their long ranged damage and they defended decently.

the game was pretty even and both teams can win the game well but fntc has one advantage; they have uncounterable engage and uncounterable followup. too bad they didnt utilize it in the last fight and yellowstar lost the game on his own. in addition to that, he didnt realize that azir had no zhonyas and he MUST engage on azir because there is no way they can kill trist through azirs wall and damage. last but not least, yellowstar engaged when gragas had just used his bodyslam to get over the wall and thus couldnt flashbodyslam into trist to follow up. not that it would made any difference, but if they were more patient, big chance they had won this game easy due to not much counterplay on c9's side. like, if they go on azir with that combo, he will die instantly and without him c9 cant fight anymore.

but then everyone talks about darius pentakill and how this was all so beautifully executed and nobody talks about yellowstar giving out freewins for the second time in worlds now.

OreninOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

my problem with monte is not that i disagree with him but that everything he saith is absolutely mundane. he tries to be so fancy and analytic that he forgets what really actually happened in the game.

league of legends is actually a pretty simple game. the concepts behind strategies here are not very complex because you can only control 5 units at best and the vulnerabilities of objectives on the map are very limited so you can really only aggress on your opponent in straightforward ways. this makes league SIMPLE, in a strategic sense, but no analyst ever focuses on the ACTUAL things that lead to fights happening or teams winning/losing but always talks about some uninteresting stuff that never mattered.

how exactly did they "hide" balls. he took a jungle camp and then came to lane and froze it and got dived and then fnc just failed to keep darius zoned but instead left yasuo alone to get dived himself. when and where did they "hide" balls or when did their "fast push strategy" come into play? because pre 25 minutes, there was only one moment where they pushed bot and took the second tower that was their "play". every other play that ever happened pre25 was ON THEIR SIDE executed by fnatic. c9 was basically only defending because their comp needs time to ramp up their long ranged damage and they defended decently.

the game was pretty even and both teams can win the game well but fntc has one advantage; they have uncounterable engage and uncounterable followup. too bad they didnt utilize it in the last fight and yellowstar lost the game on his own. in addition to that, he didnt realize that azir had no zhonyas and he MUST engage on azir because there is no way they can kill trist through azirs wall and damage. last but not least, yellowstar engaged when gragas had just used his bodyslam to get over the wall and thus couldnt flashbodyslam into trist to follow up. not that it would made any difference, but if they were more patient, big chance they had won this game easy due to not much counterplay on c9's side. like, if they go on azir with that combo, he will die instantly and without him c9 cant fight anymore.

but then everyone talks about darius pentakill and how this was all so beautifully executed and nobody talks about yellowstar giving out freewins for the second time in worlds now.

by hide, he means that balls has less of an impact, not that balls is hiding in the jungle or something

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

what exactly does that have to do with "hiding" and how is it a strategic move to not let a player have impact?

sounds like something montechristo would say

OreninOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

what exactly does that have to do with "hiding" and how is it a strategic move to not let a player have impact?

sounds like something montechristo would say

I think my previous post already explained it, by hide, he means that balls has less of an impact in the strategy that they chose.

_"How is not letting a weaker player have a large impact on the game a strategic move"? _

come on man. that's obvious.

I think you are greatly oversimplifying this game in you're mind. It is an incredibly complex, strategic game, and there are many aspects that go into each strategy; many levels to execute on. All we need to do to prove this is to look at who is winning games. If it were simple, the most important thing would be individual skill. But it is not. It is who has the best macro play, ie strategy.

It might be a language barrier, but if you are actually wondering 'how is not letting a weaker player have a large impact on the game a strategic move', then I guess you will never like montes casting. He doesn't oversimplify things like some of the other casters. That is precisely the reason that I enjoy him. I guess there should be casters for all levels of understanding of the game though.

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

yeah montechristo is perfect for high elo people like you ;D

aside from the casting thing, i really still wonder about this "hiding" thing. so their "strategy" involved balls not playing any role (aka "not having a big impact" aka "being useless" aka "wasting the potential of an entire lane") ON PURPOSE because he sucks too hard? what?

also, who came up with this "hiding balls" thing? was it something a C9 member said in an interview or did montechristo come up with that? and i still dont really see where they tried to "hide" him. i mean, toplane that game was ridiculous and not influenced by the actual toplaners alot. if you check out what really happened in toplane for the first 15 minutes you can get an idea of the strategic depth these teams put into the game. it aint super mega very much.

the complexity about league comes from the fact that its a 5-man-game and not from the game itself. if you compare it to an RTS game, the learning-curve and strategic adaption is extremely limited. not by game design alone but also by the players strategic prowess, which cant be too great for most players in worlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyZ3Cy88irg

i want to give you an example from this video. if you simply watch how toplane goes the first few minutes, you can clearly see there was no strategy about "Hiding" any player or whatnot. fnc simply laneswapped and traded towers because that was their strategy apparently or maybe they took a gamble upon c9 laneswapping, WHO KNOWS really. and i dont care. they dove darius and i dont want to analyze that dive but i want to talk about what came after it. darius respawned, went to lane and pushed the lane out. he would have loved to freeze but he couldnt, the lane was allready pushing towards fnc. (minute 18:50 around - video time, not gametime)

so he pushed and he also used his Q for that as you can see, which means he wants to push as fast as possible. he couldve slow-pushed with auto attacks too but he didnt want to. fnc can see this and huni is the one who has to keep track on this. now gragas recalls, same as alistar.

this is a giant strategic missplay and in an RTS game where only one player controls everything, he could make this mistake once, twice or three times and then never again but in league, teams tend to make mistakes an infinite amount of times because of how information is processed in 5-7 different brains.

tho the game is actually simple enough to see these things if you have any strategic prowess so i must expect most teams/coaches/analysts/montechristo to not have any. simple conclusion.

lets get back to the scene. what is happening on the map? alistar came mid to help protect orianna from c9s botlane pushing mid. now they leave again and what alistar does is walk 3 steps towards botlane and then recall. gragas allready recalled before that, sadly. if you check the map, sivir is completely safe as of wards, her having her ult up and azir + morgana + tristana + darius were known to not be around botlane. the only champion from c9 not visible to fnc was lee sin and the only place lee sin can actually do anything right now is on the toplane where we have a lvl 5 yasuo vs a lvl 6 darius and a giant wave incoming to yasuos tower to even out levels and cs. this is one of the key moments in the early to midgame where fnc has exactly one weakspot and 2 men ready and in position to defend it and instantly snowball the game further, as their draft was allready stronger and only a little bit of time was needed to win this game big time.

at least one of them (yellowstar maybe) shouldve been able to identify this weakspot not only at 19:30 when it was allready too late but at 18:50-19:00 when darius used his Q to waveclear. the only option for c9 is to dive yasuo with lee sins help as he is the only one who could possibly be there right now. gragas was not allowed to recall here and alistar shouldve instantly made way for toplane right after tristana stopped pushing and orianna was back in control of the wave, which wouldve left him enough time to reach huni in time.

ive talked long and big about this now but if you break it down, its nothing more than identifying ones weaknesses at all times and covering them. league of legends is simple enough for 5 human brains to find, process and resolve problems like this. huni is a toplaner, he shouldve known INSTANTLY that he is about to get dived by lvl 6 vs 5 darius. hell he coulda probably killed him alone.

why does nobody talk about things like these? why does nobody have any idea about basic strategic concepts? "hiding balls" aint a strategic concept, its bullshit. nobody hid balls, it was simply how the game was played out and those noob analysts interpret so much into it that isnt there and even if it was, it wouldnt matter. what matters is that huni died even tho it was absolutely preventable and predictable. in addition to that, huni was the core champion of their composition and they shouldve put a bit more gold and time into him.

phew, whatever. im tired ;D

OreninOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

aside from the casting thing, i really still wonder about this "hiding" thing. so their "strategy" involved balls not playing any role (aka "not having a big impact" aka "being useless" aka "wasting the potential of an entire lane") ON PURPOSE because he sucks too hard? what?

what...are....you.... on about? The whole point of this strategy is to lower balls' impact on the game. OK there are 5 roles in the game, top mid adc support and jungle. Different strategies utilize different roles more or less. In C9s strategy, they are using a fastpush strategy that focuses on azir and trist, their adc and midlaners, and marginalizes the impact of the top lane. I really don't understand what is so hard to understand about this??

its like when football casters say 'HE TOOK IT TO THE HOUSE' or something. it doesn't actually mean he took the ball and went home... come on...

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

how do you get the idea they used a "fast push" strategy that "lowers the impact of toplane" ?

these are phrases that, and i have seen the game, dont mean anything. what made you think toplane had less impact on this game and how do you determine that it was a strategic decision from c9 and not just how the game played out because of fnatics moves?

LuggOct 5, 20151 votes

Everyone who works at Riot is REQUIRED to play League. So they actually understand how the game works.

Some of the casters are retired pros as well. Try playing against Phreak sometime, he will wax your ass.

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

well i allready played against some pros and none of them waxed my ass yet. tho they were only "low-class pros" like pyl, febiven and dyrus. i never played against "good pros" like xpeke, niels or faker.

enough with the fun now. playing the game doesnt neccessarily lead to understanding the game.

LuggOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

playing the game doesnt neccessarily lead to understanding the game.

Are you saying you can understand the game WITHOUT playing it?

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20151 votes

i didnt say that but even tho i didnt, it would actually be possible theoretically. tho playing the game does not guarantee you any understanding of it. its like you can read a book or watch a movie and not understand it and in the same way you can play a game and not understand it.

you can be even rather good at the game because you understand parts of it that let you play the game effectively against "even worse" players.

i think the entire situation with league being a 5on5 game and a very simple one aswell kinda leads to a very flat learning curve not just for any individual player but ESPECIALLY in terms of greater strategy. say, league of legends is out for about 5 years now and i think the possible maximum is still very very very far away meaning teams can actually become many times better than they are right now.

if you compare it to 1on1 games like starcraft 2 or warcraft 3, i think ofcourse the maximum has never been reached but players were pushing it much faster. in league, i honestly think everyone is super bad compared to what they could be and in worlds, only two teams play in a way that i can say i dont feel ashamed watching them and thats origen and skt.

what im saying is, in the end all the analysts are analyzing things that are not there or dont matter instead of focusing on the actual game. best example really is that darius pentakill which darius actually deserves 0% credit for but was given all of it. this pentakill was yellowstars pentakill alone and nobody elses. he killed all 5 of his team by himself, 100% perfectly executed, but nobody talks about that and no analyst ever mentioned it.

LuggOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

what im saying is, in the end all the analysts are analyzing things that are not there or dont matter instead of focusing on the actual game. best example really is that darius pentakill which darius actually deserves 0% credit for but was given all of it. this pentakill was yellowstars pentakill alone and nobody elses. he killed all 5 of his team by himself, 100% perfectly executed, but nobody talks about that and no analyst ever mentioned it.

Darius deserves credit because he is the one who executed it and his kit allows for it to happen. Yellowstar did go in and initiate the fight, but his teammates still had the option to join him or not. So there is no way he was completely responsible. That's why no analyst talked about it, because it's simply not true.

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 5, 20152 votes

yellowstar is shotcaller and if he saith go they will go no matter what. also, if they let yellowstar die for free, they lose way too much aswell so they just follow and pray it works. and as i said, without darius it might not be a cool pentakill you fanboys can all celebrate, but the game would have ended regardless of darius. the champion didnt contribute anything to it, just made it look cool.

LuggOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

. the champion didnt contribute anything to it, just made it look cool.

Name another top champion who could have pulled that off.

AyRe CoNteMpTOct 6, 20151 votes

pulled what of? making it look cool for fanboy noobs? i guess none since "dunking" is what noobs love.

LuggOct 6, 20151 votes

As I suspected, you couldn't name another champion.

http://techoctave.com/c7/static/you-lose-i-win.jpg

OreninOct 5, 20151 votes

because in the strategy it doesn't matter as much if balls is behind because with the tower pushing and global gold being generated he will get enough global gold to remain relevant even if he falls behind, and then he can just show up at teamfights later on. It also can cause the enemy top laner to push and come down giving balls free farming instead of having to lane as much. and the strategy doesn't require balls to do anything much, at least early on. Sneaky and Incarnation are centric to it more than balls. Its like in solo queue when you are up in toplane and watching your team and the other team fight a lot.