Travis Gafford's theory on IMT's departure.

Electro522·Oct 19, 2017·31 votes·1,960 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZIQJawPNmM

He gives several reasons as to why he thinks this situation is NOT because of Overwatch, but instead, is because of the amount of money Immortals has been spending. Essentially, he thinks that Immortals are not monetarily sound.

He does, however, criticize Riot over not communicating this properly, which.....I have to agree to. I only found out about this because Travis' video was recommended on YouTube for me.

35 Comments

StillnameOct 19, 20177 votes

It is REALLY weird to me to say "Riot has not done a good job of communicating this"... They haven't even officially announced who is in the league yet all that has come out is someone with a source saying who has and has not made it.

It is like sneaking into your parents closet on December 1st and then complaining to them they bought you the wrong toy before they have even been wrapped.

As far as IMT not making it though it is really tough to say if it is good or not. I do think that the main attraction should be the players and the team name is just the person signing the paychecks.

I liked IMT but I will probably like whatever team Pobelter and Olleh end up on anyway so I am not really that concerned. Sucks for the players but maybe one of the teams coming in will look to buy the full roster coach and all.

DarkRitualOct 19, 20172 votes

On Riot's end, they wanted to wait till after worlds to announce all those who made it in. Leaks screwed that over though. It wouldn't have made sense to announce IMT not making it in before week 2 group stage when they had made the final calls on everyone.

AzureDragoonOct 19, 20174 votes

Overall, a monetary issue is certainly the most plausible answer (and being boring/not something the average fan of a team tends to discuss, something that could come off as a sudden surprise, since that's not something most E-sport teams openly advertise unless asked directly). As an Immortals fan, it would be sad to see the team I've been cheering on since they started and really get me into watching e-sports vanish over lack of stable funding, but it is a major reality of this franchise system.

Yes teams will get the stability they've been demanding, yes, the system is being switched to a Bo1 so teams can have a bit easier time to build dedicated fan bases through marketing and viewership. But if there is a significant risk of a team suddenly collapsing and leaving things unfunded, then I can understand that being of concern to being given a franchise spot. Just wish/hope there would be more transparency and information on all this, so everyone understands what happened.

MazariamontiOct 19, 20173 votes

Agree with you there. Riot has go to be the worst company in the world at communication on really simple things. Every time they made a decision on a team being accepted or declined they should have sent out an official statement on why they made that decision, anything to keep people from reaching the point where they are now.

DarkRitualOct 19, 20177 votes

They planned to reveal all of this publicaly AFTER worlds.

That thought makes sense.

But as Travis mentioned, it was bound to get out beforehand, and Riot has no gameplan in place for WHEN this happened.

MazariamontiOct 19, 20174 votes

Yeah I understand that. Can you imagine the shit they would have gotten if they had announced that Immortals wasn't going to make it right before they went 0-4 in week 2?

SchmidttyGamesOct 19, 20171 votes

I think they already knew. How else can you explain the total and complete change in both play and spirit from Week 1 to Week 2?

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T05:52:08.554+0000)

I think they already knew. How else can you explain the total and complete change in both play and spirit from Week 1 to Week 2?

Then I have to guess TSM is remaining out too? XD

Nah, IMT result was just the "usual" NA Week 2 at Worlds

SpongebobIsLifeOct 19, 20171 votes

nah they didn't, i believe the players said they knew they nothing about it.

DarkRitualOct 19, 20172 votes

Riot likely scrambled to get a response.

It's just waiting on localization.

GeminiRuneOct 19, 20171 votes

To me it feels like Riot's marketing scheme for its teams has shifted to money AND reputation. Simply reputation alone is no longer a key factor and the money forms the reputation through its investors to another extent. Immortals, while looking like a promising organization did not have that monetary stability from what the articles say.

Unfortunately, this is mostly redundant to a couple of comments and outcries. Personally, I've seen the community fall mixed on franchising. This just so happens to be the reality that franchising brings. What upsets me more is just how sudden it hits the players; it's just unfair and I kinda feel a bit of where Travis is going with this.

Miror BOct 19, 20171 votes

For me, it's looking more and more likely that the main reason for all these current LCS teams getting denied has to do with overwatch. NV was tied to the overwatch league, they're out. Speculation is going around about Dig being in the overwatch league, they're out. IMT is in the overwatch league, they're out. Considering all the known "in" teams (EF, C9, CLG, TSM, TL, Optic, GSW) aren't really tied to it, a case could be made for that being a variable involved and not the financial stability, as if that were the case then I'm questioning TSM being in when they currently (from what I can understand) have ZERO outside investments and are having a hard time fielding multiple esports teams.

MazariamontiOct 19, 20171 votes

Except they are, C9 has the London spot and I think Optic has the Houston spot

LinoWidgeOct 19, 20171 votes

C9 & OpTic are in OWL

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

TSM is the team least in immediate needs of external investors as they control a lot of the most famous LOL sites making a ton of profits out of it (champion.gg, probuiilds, etc...), that greatly exceedes the loss they have on the current LOL teams AND boost the popularity of the brand for the other few e-sports in which TSM is currently strong and profit more from them (example Smash Bros with Leffen)

TSM is the only org that FOR SURE profit from LOL ecosystem (while other orgs could go even or lose money in LOL to launch their brand for more profitable esports)

P.S. C9 and OpTic are in OWL

MasziiOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2017-10-19T08:59:18.655+0000)

TSM is the team least in immediate needs of external investors as they control a lot of the most famous LOL sites making a ton of profits out of it (champion.gg, probuiilds, etc...), that greatly exceedes the loss they have on the current LOL teams AND boost the popularity of the brand for the other few e-sports in which TSM is currently strong and profit more from them (example Smash Bros with Leffen)

TSM is the only org that FOR SURE profit from LOL ecosystem (while other orgs could go even or lose money in LOL to launch their brand for more profitable esports)

P.S. C9 and OpTic are in OWL

But they are not in OWL LA, where Riot has its residence. IMT however is in OWL LA, conflict of interest?

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But they are not in OWL LA, where Riot has its residence. IMT however is in OWL LA, conflict of interest?

Have you seen the video? That's exactly one of the first points Travis Gafford talk about LCS live audience is a drop in the bucket of overall LCS viewership and generate no profit for Riot, heck it is probably ran at loss, because LCS studio arena is not really that big and tickets are very cheap, and if really they needed live audience for give a better image in the video showing, they could just expand on the amount of free tickets they give away

OWL LA problem is that is probably overall one of the most expensive OWL slots, and so Riot doubted about the finances of such projects

MasziiOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T10:38:47.572+0000)

Have you seen the video? That's exactly one of the first points Travis Gafford talk about LCS live audience is a drop in the bucket of overall LCS viewership and generate no profit for Riot, heck it is probably ran at loss, because LCS studio arena is not really that big and tickets are very cheap, and if really they needed live audience for give a better image in the video showing, they could just expand on the amount of free tickets they give away

OWL LA problem is that is probably overall one of the most expensive OWL slots, and so Riot doubted about the finances of such projects

Sorry i dont really think Travis has any value in eSports. He's just there because of the oldskool DL story. So no i didnt watch the vid. We also dont know if Riot are maybe getting a new stage or something for the new format. But hey as long as IMT didnt leak stuff this was all be clarified after Worlds.

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Sorry i dont really think Travis has any value in eSports. He's just there because of the oldskool DL story. So no i didnt watch the vid. We also dont know if Riot are maybe getting a new stage or something for the new format. But hey as long as IMT didnt leak stuff this was all be clarified after Worlds.

LMAO Travis actually hosted the main discussion about franchising process months ago on the video he mande with Regi, Noah and rioters in charge of it: He produces more content and of higher value than than Jacob Wolf or other journalists that only procduces contents through leaks and sources breaking NDAs

MasziiOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=000200020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T10:59:03.496+0000)

LMAO Travis actually hosted the main discussion about franchising process months ago on the video he mande with Regi, Noah and rioters in charge of it: He produces more content and of higher value than than Jacob Wolf or other journalists that only procduces contents through leaks and sources breaking NDAs

That's cool and all, still doesnt make me like the dude or value his content.

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's cool and all, still doesnt make me like the dude or value his content.

Because? Dislike/hate the guy? Because he goes against your idea/agenda?

You talked about a point that was yet actually covered clearly and extensively in the video without even agreeing/disagreeing with it for some reason. Why the hell are you even commenting it?

MasziiOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=00020002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T11:05:04.361+0000)

Because? Dislike/hate the guy? Because he goes against your idea/agenda?

You talked about a point that was yet actually covered clearly and extensively in the video without even agreeing/disagreeing with it for some reason. Why the hell are you even commenting it?

Cus in all of his shows ive seen he asks bad questions, has bad knowledge etc. Also his logic is usually bad.

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cus in all of his shows ive seen he asks bad questions, has bad knowledge etc. Also his logic is usually bad.

You must have seen different shows than the rest of the world then. He is legit good

MasziiOct 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RElK2JNR,comment-id=0002000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T11:12:28.307+0000)

You must have seen different shows than the rest of the world then. He is legit good

I'll just continue to watch Thorin :).

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'll just continue to watch Thorin :).

This explains your problem :) Thorin does not follow closely Lol scene anymore and often times is wrong or says common consensus things but packaged better

13900 EssenceOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

For me, it's looking more and more likely that the main reason for all these current LCS teams getting denied has to do with overwatch. NV was tied to the overwatch league, they're out. Speculation is going around about Dig being in the overwatch league, they're out. IMT is in the overwatch league, they're out. Considering all the known "in" teams (EF, C9, CLG, TSM, TL, Optic, GSW) aren't really tied to it, a case could be made for that being a variable involved and not the financial stability, as if that were the case then I'm questioning TSM being in when they currently (from what I can understand) have ZERO outside investments and are having a hard time fielding multiple esports teams.

C9 has London's overwatch spot, OpTic got Houston's spot. Both of them are believed to be in LCS next year as well.

Main reason is IMT has been investing too much money into things. They have been running with a deficit since they were founded, having to constantly pull cash from investors. I'm not saying the investments won't have returns, but they don't seem very frugal with their cash is all.

TSM is sponsored by things like T-Mobile, GEICO, Red Bull, HTC, and Twitch. Those are some pretty major sponsors, especially considering Riot's top platform is Twitch. Not to mention they have other smaller ones.

RottedApplesOct 19, 20171 votes

If it was a monetary issues, would IMT be able to solve this issue simply by being a permanent part of the league (Allowing them to get better/more permanent sponsorship deals)

Were they betting on high value sponsors by looking like a strong/permenant addition to the league? This would have been something they could only achieve by proving relevance split after split and not getting relegated. If that then is the case this could have solved those issues.

I'm just speculating at this point and I really don't know shit about their structure or anything. But if what riot wants us to believe is true, they should be able to make more money becoming a permanent part of the league, thus negating higher spending. Right?

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 19, 20171 votes

The thing about that is Riot wants people who are self-sufficient and have the money to help establish the ecosystem, it seems. To compare:

TSM is sponsored by several major organizations. CLG has the same deal. Cloud 9 also has major sponsors Team Liquid feature much of the same.

~~The outlier here is Echo Fox, who don't seem to have any sponsor. They do, however, have the (pretty decent pockets) of Rick Fox backing them. Comparatively, to the ones who we know are out...~~

Echo Fox has six sponsors but you ned adblock off to see'em.

P1 only has four sponsors, only one (Twitch) being a HUGE org. I legitimately couldn't find anything for Flyquest. IMT has three less-than-large orgs backing them.

To add to this, IMT is backed by VC money. VC has a tendency to pull out hard n' fast when things don't look good. Say Immortals botches something in the LCS. Suddenly Riot has a financially weak org in the ranks and has to pull them up as much as possible.

All things considered, it's a shit situation especially considering how well-liked IMT is in both the scene and from the perspective of the players. Considering the decent friendship IMT has with Riot, I'd hardly say this was a spiteful or easy to make decision. All we can hope is that IMT can one day rejoin when their pockets are a bit deeper.

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The outlier here is Echo Fox, who don't seem to have any sponsor. They do, however, have the (pretty decent pockets) of Rick Fox backing them. Comparatively, to the ones who we know are out...

EF currently has more sponsors than IMT, 6 vs 3

http://www.echofox.gg/sponsors (maybe you can't see because adblock)

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 19, 20171 votes

Surprised adblock prevents it but thanks for correcting me. WIll fix.

Ale non è maleOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Surprised adblock prevents it but thanks for correcting me. WIll fix.

I read it on reddit, otherwise no one could have understood it

PatonicOct 19, 20171 votes

Forbes Just announced that the Yankees are investing in Echo Fox so that probably helped them.

Ale non è maleOct 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Forbes Just announced that the Yankees are investing in Echo Fox so that probably helped them.

Investors wasn't the problem from IMT either, the problem for IMT was that if their investors at any point where going to withdraw, IMT couldn't sustain theirself because of lack of further monetization structure (waiting for eventually new investors to take over)