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Very disappointed with the recent Competitive Ruling.

ModPrandine··11 votes·5,510 views
LoL Esports

So I recently read the Competitive Ruling and I have to say that I am very disappointed in the outcome. So wait a minute, how come TheShy and especially Uzi are being allowed to play with just a fine as a penalty? If you ask me they should at the very least have a multi-game suspension for their behaviors. If you truly valued the competitive integrity then Worlds or not the punishments should be more severe than what was issued here. It makes no sense that the players who got issued fines get off basically Scott free when if I recall correctly previous instances of this stuff was met with harsher penalties such as suspensions or game penalties. That also says nothing about the fact that apparently other pro players at Worlds, such as Gen.Gs Cuvee, have been inting and yet have had no penalties issued to them despite that. Come on Riot, you're better than this. Make the punishments here actually meaningful and impactful rather than just a slap on the wrists.

23 Comments

Ragnaveil10 votes

I agree with the fact the punishment on Uzi was way too lenient. Pretty sure they were forced to rule with something lower because the "excitement" with RNG being (dunno if they were ranked this) top dog to win Worlds would be in jeopardy.

Why. Why can't you just hit the guy with either missing a game or two, or making the team lose a ban in first or second phase? RNG is basically getting a slap on the wrist with their biggest player getting out with just a fine. Each Org basically should have an idea that behavior like this is unsportsmanlike, and should hold their players accountable and make sure they don't even do stuff like that in the first place.

Wasn't the goal of structuring Esports to be similar to what pro sports like the NBA, NHL, NFL and MLB are? The moment you do something really bad, you not only get hit with a fine, but you are suspended for x amount of games or sometimes in some cases banned from ever competing again. And this here is a step in the OTHER direction. Letting him off with a slap on the wrist makes me and others think, "Oh, so buying an account and griefing on this account since its not mine is totally okay if you go pro."

People are going to rise up on this ruling, and Riot better have a good answer for it. If they don't...if I were them i'd either take a ban from phase one or two away from RNG for the entire round robin, or suspend Uzi for two or three games and have RNG's ad sub (if they even have one...) play in those games.

BeatzBoyFTW5 votes

Wait, did they just gave Uzi a simple fine...from account sharing & Intentional Feeding??

Holy Jesus Christ, Riot is indeed desperate for dem Worlds View $$....

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

To be fair, if he were a normal player, there would be no penalties to his regular account.

I agree with the overall sentiment that these penalties aren't quite harsh enough, but it's not less of a punishment than he would get if he were us. I've never heard of Riot banning a main account for playing on a smurf, even if that smurf was bought and had terrible behavior.

HeeroTX1 votes

Interesting to consider, which would bother a NORMAL player more, a multi-game/day ban, or Riot reps coming to your house and demanding thousands of dollars?

mack91123 votes

Did the streamer who provoked uzi in that toxic situation get punished too ?

Wings Shadow2 votes

LOL You are like accusing Citizen self-defense as murder. I wonder if you ever explain yourself after a misunderstanding. UZI's action was wrong, but his punishment was lightened by RIOT due to the reason that Korean players kept trolling and insulting him. And, btw, S8's host country is Korea, I wonder how UZI's ban will affect so great of the tickets selling to Koreans. So in your opinions, Pros got trolled and insulted for dozens of games is normal and the poggers should receive no punishment until the pros got pissed off. A random streamer's apologize for a pro's suspension? Perfectly worth. If you have a problem with UZI, you can educate him or denounce him by sending a private message or beat him up in the game. If you have issues with RIOT's decision. Good Luck with convincing them, since you think you have a better understanding of the situation and you are just so pissed that UZI didn't get banned.

hshtagniemehrcdu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wings Shadow,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=NzQwNQPu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-08T15:03:44.516+0000)

LOL You are like accusing Citizen self-defense as murder. I wonder if you ever explain yourself after a misunderstanding.

Uzi wasn't defending himself; neither was there a misunderstanding.

UZI's action was wrong, but his punishment was lightened by RIOT due to the reason that Korean players kept trolling and insulting him.

Intentinally feeding is never ok. For **years **Riot had the stance that inting etc. is not allowed, regardless of context. Why do you think do they never show the teamchat in their reformcards? Why do you think has Riot not mentioned his trolling teammates in the link posted above? Because there is no excuse ofr inting. So, why is their penalty now different then from years back?

And, btw, S8's host country is Korea, I wonder how UZI's ban will affect so great of the tickets selling to Koreans.

Agree, that speculation was really out of place..

So in your opinions, Pros got trolled and insulted for dozens of games is normal and the poggers should receive no punishment until the pros got pissed off. A random streamer's apologize for a pro's suspension? Perfectly worth. If you have a problem with UZI, you can educate him or denounce him by sending a private message or beat him up in the game. If you have issues with RIOT's decision. Good Luck with convincing them, since you think you have a better understanding of the situation and you are just so pissed that UZI didn't get banned.

The rest of your text is pure strawmanning, not worthy of discussion..

Wings Shadow1 votes

First, UZI's intentionally feeding was confirmed, and he didn't defend himself. The misunderstanding referenced that there are many people believes that uzi starts to troll for no reason or just simply get ganked too hard. Long story short, UZI kept got trolled by his teammates and insulted by both sides in the game. He tried to carry hard before even there's no hope of winning, but he lost his manner during that criticized game. What I said was a metaphor, maybe you are such a man with integrity and never give up on anything. Ok, I honor you. Perhaps you will still try hard when you face the same circumstance that your teammates trolled for several games and insulted you like a pig. For real, I honor you. And I am sorry that UZI can't take that much. But it's just like the law and the court. There are rules for people to follow as a framework or standards. However, this world is full of uncertainty, and you can't judge anything by using the law itself. Same in the LOL. It's the judge give the final judgment instead of a calculator that only follows the code that has been written earlier. RIOT and I both agree that intentionally feeding was not ok, so we feel 2000 dollars fee sounds reasonable.

You think I am biased and "strawmanning" because you never wanted to get a full understanding of this event. If you felt this result is unfair, you will start investigating the whole thing earlier, but you didn't.

So, for what I see, whether you have a personal bias on UZI or not, you are glad to see him go down. The midst of sadness is that riot's staff didn't share the same perspective of yours and gave a fair judge to UZI.

You see, the world in everyone’s eyes is different. You may not like it, but you have to take it.

Good day~

hshtagniemehrcdu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wings Shadow,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=NzQwNQPu,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-10-08T17:14:34.077+0000)

First, UZI's intentionally feeding was confirmed, and he didn't defend himself.

Then no question about a penalty being needed.

The misunderstanding referenced that there are many people believes that uzi starts to troll for no reason or just simply get ganked too hard. Long story short, UZI kept got trolled by his teammates and insulted by both sides in the game. He tried to carry hard before even there's no hope of winning, but he lost his manner during that criticized game.

As explained in my previous post, Riot has made it its policy for years that this DOES NOT MATTER.

What I said was a metaphor, maybe you are such a man with integrity and never give up on anything. Ok, I honor you. Perhaps you will still try hard when you face the same circumstance that your teammates trolled for several games and insulted you like a pig. For real, I honor you. And I am sorry that UZI can't take that much.

Really tiresome how you constantly presume so freaking much about everyone else... last post, this one now too. Again, since context does not matter (unless Riot made a full turn on their approach to player behavior) this doesn't matter. He trolled, hence he should receive the appropriate penalty.

But it's just like the law and the court. There are rules for people to follow as a framework or standards. However, this world is full of uncertainty, and you can't judge anything by using the law itself. Same in the LOL. It's the judge give the final judgment instead of a calculator that only follows the code that has been written earlier. RIOT and I both agree that intentionally feeding was not ok, so we feel 2000 dollars fee sounds reasonable.

And give pretty much no explanation why this is 2k $, while previously such behaviour earned harsher penaltys, such as being permitted to joing competitive games for a time (Like Svenskeren who couldn't join for the, i think it were 4, following compettive matches. Forgiven would be another one). This is the real problem here. There's no explanation for this huge discrepancy.

Repeating myself one more time.

Racism? 14-day ban. Cant join compettive matches for a time

Intentional feeding? 14-day ban. Accountsharing? 14-day or perma. 2k fine for both, no further consequences.

Since Riot kinda made a statement that they consider both things equally as bad, it woud only seem logical they both result in the same penalty in competitive as well.

You think I am biased and "strawmanning" because you never wanted to get a full understanding of this event. If you felt this result is unfair, you will start investigating the whole thing earlier, but you didn't.

Maybe i just didn't stalk his accounts..?

So, for what I see, whether you have a personal bias on UZI or not**, you are glad to see him go down**. The midst of sadness is that riot's staff didn't share the same perspective of yours and gave a fair judge to UZI.

You constantly talk about my personal intentions and interests, and dont actually answer to what i wrote in the previous post. Specifically the bit about context not mattering.. Instead, yet again, you claim i have a different opinion because i want to see him fall.

Attack the argument, not the person.

Attack the argument, not the person.

Wings Shadow1 votes

There are videos, pictures, translated chat history everywhere now. You don't need to stalk his account to find out what happened, don't be lazy.

And, situations are different. Do you think every penalty reflects the violation and the situation accurately? Did Riot figure what might happen these days when they first announced their codes? I don't think so

Have you ever played World of Warcraft? Blizzard is a rigorous game company who allowed no violations of regulations. However, every penalty deserves an opportunity for appealing. Some apologies were even accepted. These actions against the code of Blizzard entertainment, but became the competitive advantage of customer service in the game company market.

Now, Riot is being flexible after the investigation and lightened the punishment for UZI. As well as the other 15 professional players, and 12 of them only recieved warnings. (ps: I don't want to mention this, but there was no Korean players being informed to participate in this announcement.) This kind of thing never happened before but only after teams from all over the world arrived Korea. I assume that Riot never recieved such a huge amount of reporting all regards to pros. From my point of view, Riot did great this time.

BTW, Jensen from C9 was permanently banned once, but Riot let him play again now. Do you think this is fair? How do you define fair, Is following the code by 100 % fair? Or if you agree that Riot is making progress with these sort of things and the penalty system is getting more reasonable?

What riot indeed cannot list every circumstance of players violates the rules, so now it has a more advanced penalty evaluation system for a controversial event such as this. I don't know what happened before just like you don't know what happened to UZI. Maybe Riot was recklessly giving punishments to others before, and I think Jensen's come back is the proof of the progress that Riot was making.

I don't want to convince you to believe what I believe; I want to persuasive you to accept differences exist between you and I and even Riot. If you're going to understand, that will be great. If not, I hope you have a perfect life that doesn't need understanding when uncontrollable factors caused misconceptions; everything will follow the orders. I still need the sympathy of my boss when my flight got delayed, or I will be fired some many times according to the company's rule.

If you still want riot to take further actions, remember to mention the other 15 players were also received pardons. I would love to see your success, so this world tournament will have 16 fewer players to compete. That will be awesome!

Oh! One more thing. Riot gets to decide what matters and what doesn't matter. It's not up to you bro. And drop the unselfish gesture, it's quite weird.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

Inting, trolling, and account sharing- No ban.

Quite silly considering the things the IFS will indiscriminately ban people for.

Infernape1 votes

If it catches them lol

The IFS is kinda shit at detecting legit inting. Riot themselves admitted that.

ModPrandine1 votes

To be clear I understand that they want to avoid influencing Worlds as much as possible, but in instances like this I feel that that's unavoidable and that a penalty should be applied regardless, even if it does cause them to lose viewers or causes the penalized teams to not make it out because of that. Even if that happens I still feel that they need to put their foot down and actually enforce the rules rather than give the impression that they play favorites, especially for misbehavior like this, and if what I outlined earlier in this post does in fact happen then oh well, their loss.

hshtagniemehrcdu3 votes

{quoted}

To be clear I understand that they want to avoid influencing Worlds as much as possible,

Well.. who would really be influencing worlds if if Uzi got suspended? Riot - or Uzi himself, who decided that he would go for inting and account sharing?

I mean- there wouldn't be anyone at faul but Uzi himself. Riot wouldn't be the one influnencing worlds, only Uzi. Dont kill the messenger.

Each of these competitive rulings followed racist or culturally insensitive statements. While we certainly believe griefing teammates and intentionally feeding is inappropriate behavior from a professional player, none of the conduct at issue in this ruling rose to the level punished in the above competitive rulings.

I think this is a very, very bad explanation. Racism? 14-day ban.

Intentional feeding? 14-day ban. Accountsharing? 14-day or perma.

Since Riot kinda made a statement that they consider both things equally as bad, it woud only seem logical they both result in the same penalty in competitive as well.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

Well.. who would really be influencing worlds if if Uzi got suspended? Riot - or Uzi himself, who decided that he would go for inting and account sharing?

I mean- there wouldn't be anyone at faul but Uzi himself. Riot wouldn't be the one influnencing worlds, only Uzi. Dont kill the messenger.

I've heard rumors and speculations here and there from random people on Twitter that Riot secretly wants China to win Worlds, and if they actually punish Uzi the chances of that happening as well as the viewer count for Worlds goes down. Now I obviously can't confirm or deny that but like I said it's just rumors and speculation.

I think this is a very, very bad explanation. Racism? 14-day ban.

Intentional feeding? 14-day ban. Accountsharing? 14-day or perma.

Since Riot kinda made a statement that they consider both things equally as bad, it woud only seem logical they both result in the same penalty in competitive as well.

I agree. It's very inconsistent with their stance on past punishments for other players.

DrCyanide2 votes

If we even entertain the notion that Riot wants X region to win then Worlds has lost all credibility.

BigBellBrute1 votes

{quoted}

To be clear I understand that they want to avoid influencing Worlds as much as possible, but in instances like this I feel that that's unavoidable and that a penalty should be applied regardless, even if it does cause them to lose viewers or causes the penalized teams to not make it out because of that. Even if that happens I still feel that they need to put their foot down and actually enforce the rules rather than give the impression that they play favorites, especially for misbehavior like this, and if what I outlined earlier in this post does in fact happen then oh well, their loss.

Unfortunately, Riot is turning into CFB. Alabama player beats up girlfriend, Alabama player loses his start and is effectively suspended for the first play of the game against Northwest Creampuff State wheelchair academy from 1aa.

DrCyanide1 votes

$1,000 fine for being caught Intentionally Feeding. $1,000 fine for buying an account. $1,500 fine for being reported a lot, not being found to have griefed, but because of a bad history.

It's a joke. Guess punishments got a Worlds Patch too.

Pika Fox1 votes

People would complain no matter the decision, and its not like its a null punishment.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

I don't really get the account sharing. Its a rule that frequently goes unpunished especially if accounts are shared by friends.

Secondly, they've been monitoring the pros through September...do you know where pros have been for most of September? Korea. As in, not their normal region for most players. I think its ridiculous for Riot to expect pros to do anything other than share an account. They have to be in Korea, they have to play games in Korea and they aren't going to level up a brand new account, nor are they going to dust off some old accounts they might have and place in Plat 1 or D1 or where ever is the highest rank they can get. They're going to borrow/buy accounts they can actually get real practice on in solo queue.

I know some pros just do the ranked climb, but I don't think its unexpected to learn that not all of them do. Its not like they were boosting, they were doing it in order to prepare for Worlds. Unless Riot provides appropriate accounts for them--which they might, and if so I rescind most of this statement--I don't think account sharing is an unreasonable occurrence.

That said, punishing for toxic behavior is totally warranted. As a pro its unacceptable to behave in this way. Whether the fines are enough or not remains up for debate. On one hand, I imagine losing Diamondprox, for example, would have been way more devastating for Gambit than most other teams. Gambit wouldn't have gotten as far as they did without him, especially since they had to start from play-in, so losing him in the first game would have possibly prevented them from ever getting a chance to even try for regular Group stage. Conversely, some might say losing Uzi for a few games is more devastating, as the ruling came out so late, a team that lost in Play-ins like Gambit would be unaffected given how late this ruling was announced.

You also have to think about the magnitude of the behavior. These guys aren't saying the N-word on a livestream or something, they are griefing in random solo queue games. The fact is, behavior in a random game is less important than your behavior on-stage. Ranked is more casual, anger is going to happen and its not like most people's careers are on the line. If I or any random person on Boards is toxic, we aren't getting fired or paid less at work. That said, I suppose it isn't unreasonable to expect better behavior out of professionals; the punishment is warranted, its the severity that I'm not sure about.

Like, if Lebron James went to some random pickup match or entered some recreational tournament where he lives and was just a total douchebag to everyone, basically doing the equivalent of griefing in a basketball match...should he be banned from the first few games of the NBA season? Perhaps because a game of League is so much more public and irrevocably attached to the sport that good behavior is more important in this case? Its not an easy answer.

Additionally, Riot also mentions how they took into account recent behavior throughout this season. The players who received fines have already received their warnings at some point. The players who were warned are expected to rethink their behavior and try to improve, or else they receive fines as well. I don't think its unreasonable to think that if they don't improve after the fines, more severe punishment like some of you are suggesting would be appropriate.

For me personally, I have two thoughts. One is I don't want to see players banned from their first few games willy nilly just because of solo queue shenanigans. If they don't improve, if they remain toxic despite the warnings and fines, that's one thing. As a spectator, its really lame to have something as important as Worlds be potentially decided because of a few players' behavior in solo queue. As long as the players improve and continue to conduct themselves civilly on the Worlds stage, I think a fine is an appropriate punishment for the moment.

My other thought is...why did this take so long? If Riot wanted to monitor pros' behavior in preparation for Worlds, why talk about it after Play-ins is basically over? And why were they being monitored through September, why not year round, so that way you can dole out punishment much earlier? Did they just monitor them since they were all in one region? If they banned the toxic players from their first match or so, as many suggest, then this punishment would have literally 0 effect on Diamondprox because this ruling was announced after Gambit was already eliminated. Its just such random timing.

Linna Excel1 votes

IMO any disciplined player should be prevented from appearing in worlds that season. Not doing so is riot clearly vice signaling to toxic players. However in riot's defense, they are an incredibly toxic company with possible law violations so it isn't like they can do anything without looking like complete hypocrites.

Carry U Softly1 votes

rito sold its poor soul to chinese tencent.

they have made shitload of changes/updates prior to every single worlds in the past years in what was really to shake the meta right before the worlds in hopes to take down korean teams.

it only took rito 6 years to finally find the meta to take down lck and crown their chinese daddy.

msi? check.

rift rivals? check.

asian games? check.

worlds? why fix it when it's working.

ever since rito opened up and let tencent inside, the direction of competitive plays have been downright rigged and fake in favor of lpl.

expecting fairness and consistency from anything that involves china is naive.

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