Boards›Esports

Follow-up to SK-Gambit Situation

Riot·3/29/2014, 6:21:15 PM·3 votes·5,662 views
Hey Summoners, After our decision to remake the SK vs. GMB game, we wanted to shed more light on the thought process that went into it. There have been other games in the past that appear to have been impacted by bugs, but this one was unique for a few reasons: the bug was immediately verifiable with 100% certainty, and the disadvantaged team paused because of the bug affecting play. Ultimately, the fault in how this situation played out lies on us, and that’s why we remade. As we mentioned previously, the correct decision was to remake, and while we wish that we had followed that course of action in the moment, we felt that not remaking the game afterwards would be unfair to SK, who followed all of the rules throughout this process. The big problem we ran into with this remake was the clarity of the rules. In the LCS ruleset (Rule 9.4.2.1), it states that a game can be remade if it "experiences a critical bug at any point during the match which significantly alters game stats or gameplay mechanics." When a team experiences this kind of bug and notifies the referee, we expected that the disadvantaged team would request a remake of the game (or that, at a minimum, they knew that they could). Unfortunately, the teams expected the opposite: that we would ask them if they wanted a remake. So what happened was that the LCS referee didn't offer the chance for a remake because they thought the player was supposed to request it, and the player didn't request a remake because he didn't know it was possible. This might put us in conflict with Rule 8.8.3, but we came to the conclusion that no decision was formally made and that the decision to not remake was defaulted to (due to unfamiliarity with the rules). After the game finished, we looked at the bug and how it related to the integrity of the game. Because the bug happened so early, we couldn't predict how much of an impact it had on the overall conclusion. What we did know was that some aspect of the game was changed because of it. Rather than asking SK if they would have preferred a remake (and risk pressuring them to make a public decision), and given the lack of clarity in our rules that led to this, we took what we considered to be the fairest approach. SK did not approach any LCS officials to request a remake; this was decided to be the appropriate course of action because we made the mistake and felt obliged to remedy the situation. We also had to make the decision quickly, given that the landscape of the game changes with patches (and the teams also have a number of games to play next week). Once the decision to remake had been made, we followed the rules in place around remakes (Rule 9.4.3), which allowed both teams full freedom in picks and bans. Our rules allow for new picks and bans in any remake that occurs after Game of Record is established. This is designed to allow teams to employ a new strategy instead of starting a new game with foreknowledge of their opponent’s plans. The biggest lesson we've learned here is that rule 8.3.3 and rule 9.4.2.1 aren't sufficient for what we designed them for and we need to make sure that a full framework exists to empower our referees to make (or not make) in-game decisions. We'll be editing our rules to be more applicable and will release a change log when the updated ruleset is ready (soon™). We'd love to share the updated rules with you, but we want to take the proper time first to make sure the rules are well-designed so that we can avoid unfortunate situations like this in the future. Sincerely, Nick Allen

Related Articles

158 Comments

Okupant3/29/2014, 7:14:55 PM96 votes

So the main point is that Riot screwed Gambit big time because they can't follow and fix their rules. Good job!

Wholesale Whale3/29/2014, 8:47:55 PM51 votes

I'm hugely disgusted in the way this was handled. I don't even have a lot of emotion toward the EU LCS in general and I'm definitely not a fan-boy of either team. The point of this is that it IMPACTS THE INTEGRITY OF LEAGUE OF LEGENDS AS A LEGITIMATE SPORT. The situation was a win-win for SK in that they had a chance to replay and possibly win a game they'd most certainly lost, while being a lose-lose for Gambit in which they could possibly LOSE a game they'd already most certainly won. THE MIDDLE OF A PROFESSIONAL SEASON IS NOT THE TIME TO BE PROUD OF YOURSELF FOR IDENTIFYING INCONSISTENCY IN YOUR OWN RULE SET. This whole thing is a huge mistake and I personally have lost and incredibly amount of respect for Riot regarding these decisions. I have so much salt on my tongue because of this. You clearly see the LITERAL OUTRAGE of the community even before the remake was played and failed to EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE IT. How long is Riot going to keep act like nothing is going on? Admit that this was wrong and badly handled or I swear on everything Riot will completely lose my support (meaning my MONEY). WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Geakzor3/29/2014, 8:19:40 PM46 votes

I quote: (Rule 9.4.2.1), it states that a game can be remade if it "experiences a critical bug at any point during the match which significantly alters game stats or gameplay mechanics."

Well how was that a CRITICAL bug? it didn't effect the game outcome at all I mean it wasn't like he made a PENTA kill on SK gaming and made all the other lanes do well.

I have to make a link to the Zed bug that appeared at all stars where RIOT stated that the outcome of the game wouldn't be affected just by the zed bug although zed got free XP and Gold, where Darien his Aatrox did not get free XP or Gold.

So how did this bug change the outcome of the game as it only occured for a couple of minutes.

Also in the rematch SK insta locked the Lucian. which Genja played in the first match coincidence I think not. Really unfair to me when a team that lost got the first pick in the game. Even to pick a complete new team comp seems unfair cause whe are not gonna see that Vel'koz support pick anymore.

So with this said the only fair way to not benefit one of the teams seems to give them both a loss. Just because you fucked up shouldn't mean that one team gets a disadvantage and the other team not. Giving them both a win is not possible because then it would be unfair against all of the other LCS Teams.

So please get your shit togheter and give Both SK and GMB a lose it seems to be the least you can do to make this right.

Also according to your rules GMB needs to get a Re-match because they got a disadvantage by you guys.

And finaly I want to highlight one more thing:

after the rematch none of the casters that were talking to CandyPanda metioned anything about the SK vs GMB rematch. And he didn't appologize to GMB and its fans for the inconvience and this unfair win for them which to me was the most annoying and unsportsmans like.(if I even say this correctly)

Right now SK is the most hated team in the LCS because of your mess up and I don't think one of them will get picked in the ALL STARS voting.

Sorry for the words but it is unacceptable to see you guys pull one team above the other.

Ofermod3/29/2014, 8:09:08 PM35 votes

As far as comparisons to legitimate pro sports teams go, and players not being familiar with the rules...

There was an incident in the NFL where I believe it was the Philadelphia Eagles that did not realize that it was possible for overtime to result in a tie, rather than continuing endlessly until one team won. The ref did not inform the players of that being the situation prior to the start of the overtime period. So did the NFL schedule a rematch because the players did not know the relevant rule and the refs did not inform them of it?

Of course not. They basically said "Well, you should have actually read the rulebook. Result stands. Deal with it."

And then they started informing players about it prior to overtime, just to be sure.

But again, I've never seen a mainstream pro sport match replayed because a player didn't know all of the rules of the game. It is the player's responsibility to know the rules. It's like if a player talked during a pause. Riot's still going to take away a ban from their team in the next game, rather than say "Well, he didn't read up on the rules ahead of time, and the refs didn't walk down the line making sure that each individual player knew they couldn't talk, so we're going to go ahead and not punish him this time."

UnCosoAzul3/29/2014, 7:50:10 PM32 votes

This whole situation was handled poorly. Once the game ends and an outcome is reached, you simply can't remake it. Someone is going to suffer injustice at that point, no matter what. I think SK suffered an inconvenience by that bug (one that clearly didn't shape the outcome of the game), but Gambit suffered even a bigger one by the rematch. And on either case, it was Riot's fault. Nick says they just didn't make a decision, but the defaulted decision is a decision nevertheless. Your only argument is: "the players didn't know all the options available to them". It is then a judge's fault, SK player's fault or Riot's fault. I'm glad Nick promises it'll never happen again by clarifying rules and making sure players know what are their rights. But, impact-wise, this decision was even worse than the original bug.

Pandorka Ich3/29/2014, 9:09:58 PM32 votes

If riot really think that this bug affected on game more, that vision bugs, thresh hook and lattern bugs... So I made a conclusioun that they don't play league at all.

SK lost cause velkoz pick (and picked Jinx for it, its another mistake). Aatrox bug lasts for 6 months and riot knew about it, but 'noticed' only now, when one game can decide all. Maybe remake all aatrox games? Why not?

I'm so angry! And so sad for Gambit and for Alex. They prepared so hard this week.

noLastChance3/29/2014, 7:15:34 PM27 votes

@Nick Allen From every aspect, your decision to remake the game was the worst possible. First of all mr Allen can u tell me one sport that players dont know the rules and the refs need to inform them about them during the match? If u want league to be part of e-sports, think carefully before u make any decisions cus then u become a joke. Secondly, do u know any sport that post match decisions are made without informing team managers of the problem occured? You didnt even give the teams the chance to have a say about it and you think you protected sk from being hated this way? You couldn t act in a less professional way, really...

UnholykissSRB3/29/2014, 8:48:55 PM20 votes

What you just wrote here is bunch of nonsense , you screwed gambit 100%. Community could find 100000 games in both NA and EU lcs that were afflicted by ''gamebreaking'' bugs and they were not played again.

Fiscuous3/29/2014, 9:46:57 PM17 votes

Nick Allen you embarrassed the whole esports scene. You're an unprofessional, miserable hack.

Zagula Biggs3/29/2014, 9:39:12 PM17 votes

I don't ever comment on anything but this annoyed me so much I have to. Your explanation seems more of an excuse to get the problem swept under the rug than actually admit you made a mistake. I'd understand if you came out and said: "Listen we felt that bugs were impacting the games recently and had made a decision to start taking action against them. In our effort we chose a poor match to replay for our first attempt at this and apologize to both Gambit and SK for the atrocious way we handled the situation," and so on.

Like mentioned probably everywhere, because I refuse to believe you aren't aware of the uproar, there is no way the company who made the game could reasonably expect that the bug changed the course of the game. So you stating it happened "too early" to judge is simply wrong. Furthermore, you should have realized the impact this would have on players, game, and the league standings (you may have royally screwed one of the best teams in Europe - it was clear they didn't want to play after the announcement that day). Also, you had plenty of time in between your decision and the game to revert it and think about it further but you didn't! That, however, I can understand - can't look indecisive can you? But sometimes it is better to look indecisive and appear that you're adapting than sticking to a wrong decision until it is too late to reverse (like you did now).

Sorry but this has left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I will probably stop watching LCS for a while and I'm not sure when I'll log into playing LoL either. I know this is extreme but I hate when the integrity of something is ruined. I tune in every week to see good teams play on a fair field. That was completely changed with one decision and the whole playing field of EULCS got shuffled.

You have almost lost me and as I'm sure you're aware, you have competition coming from Blizzard, Dota, Smite, etc. so next time please watch your step before you end up falling backward.

Tonelica3/29/2014, 7:27:34 PM15 votes

I know a lot of people are really upset over this, I myself feel like SK was given an advantage by being allowed to trash their Vel'Koz pick since it didn't work out for them, and go with the much safer Leona. I feel that probably turned the tide of the game more than anything. The issues I have lie within the rules that allow a team to completely change their strategies when given a second chance. I don't believe it's necessarily "fair" but, at the same time, I can respect how difficult it is to make these rules fair for both teams involved.

I am grateful, however, that Riot has chosen to release an official statement regarding this and their plans to restructure some of their rules. Gambit did not play all that well, but I can see how it's disheartening to win and then suddenly be handed a loss. Ultimately I hope Riot takes strides to make sure their contracted players know the rules and understand their implications. I know it is difficult to foresee a situation like this until it happens, just as I'm sure we'll see other rules altered going forward regarding players playing on work-Visas. Again, I appreciate the acknowledgement of the "mistake" regarding the structure of the rules and I don't disagree that a rematch was the correct decision. I just hope there is some way it can be made completely fair for both teams someday.

Thank you.

Sonimus3/29/2014, 9:07:07 PM13 votes

RIP Diamond's surprise Xin Zhao pick

Cut 4 ocelote3/29/2014, 8:33:07 PM13 votes

What about Gambit? Gambit stomped SK in the 1st game, and the bug on Aatrox were not game changing for this specific game. No matter what it is Gambit than ends up as the big losers here, even though they can't be faulted in any ways.

Dissapointed in how you completely ignore Gambit in this situation. Gambit should not be punished in this way, all the consequenses should affect Riot and their staff only. If the game were pretty even I would understand it, but since Gambit won in such a convinsing way, the bug had a minor and not a major impact.

I understand that Riot's decision for a re-make was not the bug itself, but because the lack of information they gave to SK, but I don't think that is a good enough argument for a re-match.

Kira Onime3/29/2014, 7:36:12 PM12 votes

This remake never should of happened. Sure this little bug happened and might of had an impact, but GMB bot and mid simply stomped SK.

If anything, Riot should of informed both teams about the possibility of a remake and nothing says you have to do it publicly. Ask both teams, see what they want and remake the game at a later date if deemed necessary.

Bad decision overall and Riot directly influenced the ladder standings.

Squirelzrme3/29/2014, 7:20:40 PM11 votes

The problem I see is that people are too caught up in the moment. It's less important that a single standing in a single game is changed. What really matters is that Riot identified the mistaken clarity in their rules, and that by addressing it early and making sure of future clarity, that stuff like this doesn't happen again. If you are caught up in your feelings for either team, and that is what makes you call it unfair, then you aren't in a fit state to judge. If you think of the teams as just variables that happened to be the ones called upon in the situation, it puts everything in a less harsh light.

BANDE DE SINGES3/29/2014, 7:47:50 PM11 votes

You handled the situation so poorly that it's nearly laughable. You reversed the whole euw LCS ranking because of the obvious lack of professional rulebook and the lack of referee's jurisdiction. Sad to see so much unprofessionalism.

Beanface3/29/2014, 7:28:08 PM11 votes

Just looking for clarification on the language used in this post. You use the word "remake" and not "rematch." Do you think a new match with a new draft is a remake, because to me that seems like a rematch. Would it have been possible to delay the game until next weekend, giving the teams time to prepare and Riot to fix the Aatrox bug, and then have a proper remake with the same picks and bans?

Brabisoid3/29/2014, 7:57:06 PM11 votes

It's really nice explanation, but i think you have to stop explaining and just make an** apology** and ensure everybody that this wont happen again. Because of that decision of remaking/rematching you made yourself and the eu lcs look like a joke. It was really unfortunate and the situation was not handled properly. I'm fan of gambit and this just made me very upset. You have made fantastic game that become e-sport with many people watching and playing. They deserve more then damaging one ot top eu teams like that.

Liara783/29/2014, 8:19:13 PM10 votes

Remember the game when curse had that fight in the baron pit and Tibbers came off at random? I think that match should be rematched then, too. Curse was leading that game and lost that game in the long run. (I believe this was curse, but i think most will knwo what situation I mean).

Slashiroth3/29/2014, 9:54:43 PM9 votes

What are you talking about Nick? SK didnt even want the rematch. This was just a bad attenpt by you guys to improve PR but it honestly did the opposite

EUW Kahnar3/29/2014, 9:07:45 PM9 votes

Yes there are some issues on LCS rules. You find ones, so you will change it after this split. But there are so many bugs during matches, I really don't understand Why this match ? You learn from your mistakes, that's fine, but show respect to players and give Gambit back THE win they deserve ! The referee did a mistake, it s on him. When referees do mistakes in a soccer match for example, there isn't a rematch. This is so stupid and it creates things like that. Sk doesn't deserve all the negatives attitudes from watchers, but Gambit doesn't deserve to have a loose like that.

Koragg3/29/2014, 7:11:58 PM9 votes

I am happy that you have noticed a problem with the rules, however it is a shame that these two teams have to suffer in some way because of it. Gambit hadt a very important victory stripped from them for a mistake that Riot made. If anything some middle ground should have been reached that did not punish either team, such as the game not counting as a loss for SK or remaking the game with the exact same teams after the bug was fixed.

This whole situation gives off a suspicious feel to it because of how terribly SK played that game where they lost. It was like they got a free chance after making some terrible picks/bans and now Gambit are the ones that have dropped from 1st in standings to 4th with 4 games left. That literally changed the season for every team in the top because of a mistake Riot made. I don't think any team should have to suffer because of the mistake of the company running the tournament.

Moxxz3/29/2014, 11:12:15 PM9 votes

"Hey let's comment here"

"wtf rito so bad fix yur game yur the worst"

+12

"I'm sorry that everyone is yelling at you, Riot."

-8

Really proud of how nice and reasonable the community is about people expressing their opinions.

sinfourteen3/30/2014, 5:09:55 AM6 votes

http://www.in2lol.com/en/news/16971-sk-gambit-there-will-be-a-rematch

hauau wrote at 29.03.2014, 12:56 CET: Thunderst0rm wrote: And just for the facts: doing a rematch is necessary after some team got advantages due to bugs

Should we expect rematches?

Copy pasting the above comment from another website. Read a comment here where this match doesn't really affect the standings, seriously? Gambit is down 4th places to 5th. The result should have stand. The excuse that some people put that e-sports is a new scene, it is not. I have been a CS e-sports follower since SK SpaWn days, yes SK, I do actually support SK and fnatic CS team but now, since SK happily agreed for a re-match even though it was a clear result that they got whipped by GG in the original match (with Mid, Bot and Jungle winning their opposites). This is such a noob (note that it is noob and not newb since this is Season 4) decision made by Riot. Most points has been posted by others so Riot, the result of the remade should be reversed and the original result should stand.

Scypier3/30/2014, 3:32:08 PM5 votes

My main concern is that Riot enforced a decision based on an interpretation of the rules that was made AFTER the situation had occured. With that in mind, it feels like what Riot did to Gambit was kind of like sentencing someone for a crime that was commited before a law was passed on it. I'm all for having the standard that the referee should ask the players if they want a remake, but what Riot should have done was release a public statement saying that this is how thing will work from now on. You do not, I repeat, DO NOT go back to previous situations where it applies and enforce it on them. As I said, that sounds like sentencing someone for a crime that was commited when it wasn't a crime, which no decent legal system does, and I suggest you don't either, Riot. Not to mention the fact that you should have given the teams time to prepare for the next game, and not blatantly favour one team over the other, given the circumstances, considering how much of Gambits win was because of outsmarting SK in champion select. It also leaves me wondering if you would have forced the rematch if SK had won. Probably not, but that can only be speculated upon. I just want finish by saying that this whole situation leaves me with the feeling of disappointment and resentment towards the LCS. You had a good thing going, it really is sad to see the integrity of esports in general, and League of Legends in specific, get hurt so much.

Meanie403/30/2014, 9:41:53 PM5 votes

Keep trying to explain it away Rito, but the fact remains... You robbed Gambit by:

  • Allowing a remake.
  • Forcing the new game on 7 hours notice.
  • Not requiring the EXACT SAME CHAMPIONS in the remake. You had a week to fix Aatrox, use it.
Cryovix3/29/2014, 10:18:33 PM5 votes

i do not agree with this call. it falls onto the players to know the rules and the owners of the team to make sure the players know the rules. i don't think riot handled this well but gambit is one of the top three teams in EU so i have no doubt they will win and earn their spot back.

Cephalad3/29/2014, 10:23:15 PM5 votes

And once again I'll point out that no matter what the referee did or didn't do does not matter in sports. SK didn't know the rules - tough luck. They are a professional team and should not rely on the referees to hand-hold them, whether they wanted the remake or not.

Riot as one of the biggest producers of esports in the world should be aware of this, and if Riot ever wants esports to be taken seriously outside of Asia, then they need to stop taking these hindsight decisions. When you second-guess your own decision making then you open up for all kinds of vague argumentation and will always end up alienating part of your fan base.

The beauty of the referee system is that (s)he is the ultimate power during the game and his/her decisions cannot be altered once they are made regardless of the impact they have on the game. So please spare us your excuses. The only update you have to make to your rules is that a referee's call always stands no matter what mistake or omission he is responsible for. Remake of games simply do not happen. The only thing that might be altered afterwards is an administrative altering of the outcome if a team was caught cheating for example.

DoS Skotostrious3/31/2014, 12:17:07 PM4 votes

Things are simple : if we have two conflicting rules we simply follow the one that favours the bigger organisation (SK) over the smaller one (Gambit).The big fish wins

Karfuss3/29/2014, 9:40:53 PM4 votes

No formal decision made... Yet we had a big flashy "VICTORY!" Legit.

Katastrofik3/30/2014, 6:38:06 AM4 votes

So what about the Curse/Stvicious bug. The one where it obviously affected the game and where HE PAUSED AFTER THE FIGHT AND TALKED TO THE REF ABOUT IT???

ElliotRodger Fan3/31/2014, 12:17:38 AM4 votes

And not even an apology to gambit who got completely screwed up for no reason at all. GJ rito. gj