Why NA is still very likely to lose worlds.

Ready 2 B Blamed·Oct 4, 2016·4 votes·1,125 views

I feel by now that some people should have matured by now to talk about this without being childish. Though, I know some still will. But I sincerely do believe NA is.. to some extent the best region. However, I don't believe they are the most intelligent. If we hadn't noticed, the games in which NA wins vs teams like ROX costed them a lot to achieve such victories. Here's my theory in why KR is going to win worlds: As good as Korea is, they don't seem to be playing very intellectually. ROX Tigers almost lost to ANX. SKT loses to FW and ROX loses to CLG. If you noticed, These teams have one thing in common: They have comfort power picks. However, when they go to a more meta restrained team composition, they don't play as well. I believe Korea uses early group stages as a form of gathering information and scanning how powerful these teams are with specific champions. To Korea, simply hearing someone is good with said champ isn't enough for them to simply waste a ban on those champions. When it comes to games where Korea REALLY wanna win, they highly value ban phase and choose to use it passively at the beginning of group stages to allow the other teams to "dominate" them in said phase so that they can see how the enemy teams conquer them in draft phase.

To put it simply, Korea throws in champion select early in group stages to see scan the enemy teams at their strongest so that they will know what to do in the later parts of the tournament. That is my theory anyway. I do still "kind of" have hope for TSM because TSM is the only NA team with a large champions pool in almost every position so it's difficult to ban them out. However, It is still likely ROX or SKT will overpower them just in raw skill.

18 Comments

GhostOfTsushimaOct 4, 20162 votes

This is the most crap observation I have ever seen. Where does he get his facts from LOL

SKT ban Mord all game at Worlds, without even seeing one Mord who did a good play. They completely just respect that Mord is an OP Champ in Solo Que last Season

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 4, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDG HangsterBoi,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=JA7zgnYQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-04T00:29:53.801+0000)

This is the most crap observation I have ever seen. Where does he get his facts from LOL

SKT ban Mord all game at Worlds, without even seeing one Mord who did a good play. They completely just respect that Mord is an OP Champ in Solo Que last Season

Quite glad your still fantasizing about season 5 so much that your stuck in season 5.. However, I am in season 6 and I am talking about season 6 Worlds. If you have not watched it, I highly suggest you do.

GhostOfTsushimaOct 4, 20162 votes

Korean just go into game to scan Team....

LOL Its Worlds, who the fuck have time to scan Team and not tryhard?

Don't be mad

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 4, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDG HangsterBoi,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=JA7zgnYQ,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-04T00:35:02.202+0000)

Korean just go into game to scan Team....

LOL Its Worlds, who the fuck have time to scan Team and not tryhard?

Don't be mad

For what purpose would I be mad? What would cause me to be angry by your comment? Anyway, the very start of worlds doesn't particularly matter all that much. In fact, trying to play mindgames by purposely throwing games isn't such a bad idea because they know that they can easily win the last games to make it out of groups. If they don't win, then they didn't deserve to win in the first place. It's actually really simplistic. So, yeah. There's plenty of time at the very beginning to scan teams. Are they not "tryharding"? They still kind of are, they play the game to the best of their ability it is just the draft phase is where they play around and scan for information.

Miror BOct 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDG HangsterBoi,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=JA7zgnYQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-04T00:29:53.801+0000)

This is the most crap observation I have ever seen. Where does he get his facts from LOL

SKT ban Mord all game at Worlds, without even seeing one Mord who did a good play. They completely just respect that Mord is an OP Champ in Solo Que last Season

And the first morde to come out at last year's worlds in no way dominated the game to the point in which the people casting the game were calling the team who let it through "idiots".

In all seriousness though, Korea has always had a bit of a "Respect" thing when it comes to their picks and bans. Very rarely do they let unknown quantities through pick/ban, and they tend to be very calculated with it. If you beat a korean team on an international stage, then 99% of the time it comes through skill and not because a hidden OP dominated the map for most of the game.

Kal Vas FlamOct 4, 20162 votes

Asians in general have a different strategic philosophy. This can be traced back to WW2 and Vietnam. Asian battle philosophy is to take territory and fight around controlled areas. NA strategy is largely to take out priority targets and chip away at smaller targets from there. The whole reason we lost the Vietnam War is because the Asian strategy is better at defending and taking territories, and if you look at map play in LoL, the same theory applies. NA has traditionally been miles behind Korea and China on map control and instead focused on big team fights with the intent of deleting big carries first, that was always the main reason they lost, not just because Koreans are "superior" mechanical players. NA's large imports of Asian players has obviously had an effect though as we're seeing TSM, CLG, and C9 doing a much better job at map control and thus doing much better in these matches. Whether or not we're there yet is still to be determined.

Note - my explanation of Asian strategy vs NA strategy is obviously extremely simplified, but in that's it in a couple of sentences.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Asians in general have a different strategic philosophy. This can be traced back to WW2 and Vietnam. Asian battle philosophy is to take territory and fight around controlled areas. NA strategy is largely to take out priority targets and chip away at smaller targets from there. The whole reason we lost the Vietnam War is because the Asian strategy is better at defending and taking territories, and if you look at map play in LoL, the same theory applies. NA has traditionally been miles behind Korea and China on map control and instead focused on big team fights with the intent of deleting big carries first, that was always the main reason they lost, not just because Koreans are "superior" mechanical players. NA's large imports of Asian players has obviously had an effect though as we're seeing TSM, CLG, and C9 doing a much better job at map control and thus doing much better in these matches. Whether or not we're there yet is still to be determined.

Note - my explanation of Asian strategy vs NA strategy is obviously extremely simplified, but in that's it in a couple of sentences.

I highly agree. Even though it may not be as simple when any average player is reading the map, korean players often have this strategic style incorporated into them and if you simplify the ultimate win condition LoL demands: It is defending the Nexus. Although, in this case Korea has a very counterproductive strategy this year considering the NA style is to eliminate the priority target/main carry, Korea has the strategy to focus on 1 carry and pour resources into him. This is shown in SKTs recent comps and even sometimes SSG. Honestly though, I can't pinpoint any specific strategy for ROX Tigers because they haven't really gotten that far. They've lost just about every early game since starting worlds and they win via clownfiesta. So, I don't know if that's planned for them, because we have little information on them.

SlappybiscuitOct 4, 20162 votes

If asian team loses = they werent trying very hard, they were sandbagging, they didnt want to reveal any strategies, other team got lucky/cheesed If asian team wins = they the best baby, unstoppable, why is there even a tournament? crown these kings, have my babies, $5 sucky

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If asian team loses = they werent trying very hard, they were sandbagging, they didnt want to reveal any strategies, other team got lucky/cheesed If asian team wins = they the best baby, unstoppable, why is there even a tournament? crown these kings, have my babies, $5 sucky

That's very prejudical. I don't think I need to explain why I theorized this... I am just laying out a possibility that is definitely out there for worlds. There's a reason Korean teams are always better at best of series.

SlappybiscuitOct 5, 20161 votes

It's because they are generally better at the game, better team synergy, overall strategies and deeper champion pools. Not because they are playing rope-a-dope.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's because they are generally better at the game, better team synergy, overall strategies and deeper champion pools. Not because they are playing rope-a-dope.

I don't mean to deny that fact. But thinking in such simple ways is probably 1 of the reasons NA isn't getting past Korea. Also, my theory IS a strategy that is pretty easy to use. It's kind of cheesy but yeah. I feel we need to think of the reason WHY Korea is so much better rather than just accepting that they are and letting it go.

SlappybiscuitOct 6, 20161 votes

Dont think anyone is saying or even implying "koreans are too good at this game so fuck it!"

The cracked out theory that koreans are half-assing it, allowing other teams to "dominate them" or trolling with subpar strategies to not give away their ultra-super-secrets is ridiculous. You've somehow managed to both downplay how good they are (that they need to use this inane cheese strategy to get an edge on the competition) while simultaneously holding the belief that they are SO good that there must be another explanation for it other than the Occam's razor explanation that they work very hard perfecting their skills. Your strategy only works if they never need to use it in the first place.

There's no doubt the good teams adapt, and develop strategies depending on how the other teams play. All teams should be doing this and already are. Eastern teams being good or better doesnt change anything. It's not "simple thinking." If NA wants to beat them they need to improve (and they have been doing that).

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Dont think anyone is saying or even implying "koreans are too good at this game so fuck it!"

The cracked out theory that koreans are half-assing it, allowing other teams to "dominate them" or trolling with subpar strategies to not give away their ultra-super-secrets is ridiculous. You've somehow managed to both downplay how good they are (that they need to use this inane cheese strategy to get an edge on the competition) while simultaneously holding the belief that they are SO good that there must be another explanation for it other than the Occam's razor explanation that they work very hard perfecting their skills. Your strategy only works if they never need to use it in the first place.

There's no doubt the good teams adapt, and develop strategies depending on how the other teams play. All teams should be doing this and already are. Eastern teams being good or better doesnt change anything. It's not "simple thinking." If NA wants to beat them they need to improve (and they have been doing that).

It's not just about adapting and improving. It's not Koreans "half-assing" it. It's sacrificing a battle to win the war. This isn't me denying that they don't work perfecting their skill in league but it's like this: If a man fires a shot at you do you duck, stand still, move left or right? It's about imagination and you have to think of possibilities that isn't there. If you chose any 1 of those answers, you likely would be dead either way, not because you wouldn't be able to dodge it but because you didn't think you could also be shot by other people from behind or by sides. 4 people could be shooting you from all sides. It's always good to keep in mind that there is other possibilities that we wouldn't even think about, you lose nothing for thinking about it.

TreeofwarOct 4, 20161 votes

SSW did not do that nor did SKT

BloodyTomponOct 6, 20161 votes

Didn't SSW wait a while to bring out the Jayce? It's been a while so my memory is shady. I recall it was a surprise pick though and wasn't meta before worlds at all.

Miror BOct 4, 20161 votes

NA started out strong at last year's worlds to go 0-10 in week two. Until they actually secure a quarterfinal spot, I'm not jumping on that fap-wagon.

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

Still though SKT Faker considers Rox Tigers and TSM their greatest competition and the team they must watch out for. Don't forget anything can happen on the world stage, strategies used in each game aren't the same and that the teams will probably continue to try and innovate or perfect their strategies as we draw closer to the finals.

Look at what we saw with ANX vs G9 where ANX made history as a wild card team in defeating the number 1 seed in Europe using one of the most unique compositions in worlds seen thus far with their incredible executions and well thought out actions.

Ready 2 B BlamedOct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Still though SKT Faker considers Rox Tigers and TSM their greatest competition and the team they must watch out for. Don't forget anything can happen on the world stage, strategies used in each game aren't the same and that the teams will probably continue to try and innovate or perfect their strategies as we draw closer to the finals.

Look at what we saw with ANX vs G9 where ANX made history as a wild card team in defeating the number 1 seed in Europe using one of the most unique compositions in worlds seen thus far with their incredible executions and well thought out actions.

To be fair, Faker.. is good at many things but he isn't the greatest judge of skill. Not to downgrade any of those teams but he's typically always wrong when he says something like that. I love TSM and I think ROX haven't shown up but will. Still, I wouldn't count on Faker's words even if it is Faker.