Since NA lost their #1 seed at MSI and who ever wins the NA Summer Playoffs will be the #1 NA team to face potentially a #1 LCK team and a #2 Lpl, Eu and/or Lms team. My question is why would any of the NA teams want to win the Summer Playoffs now ?
xJLx MCHammer2 votesC9 is a better team
TSM may have a better track record vs C9 but overall C9 performs better internationally. Every worlds, TSM gets an pretty easy group and they can't manage to get out....
III BAKURYU III 1 votesYeah you're right about that but I'm not really talking about TSM or C9 individually just the seeds for NA and the possibility of not having a #1 seed in Groups for Worlds was actually better than having a #1 seed for Worlds is all.
The Lexer1 votesEvery? TSM had to play LGD/KT/Origen - a group which consisted of a #1 CH team, #2 KR team, and an eventual semifinalist as the pool 3 team. And the one time I think TSM actually did get an easy group (Season 4) - they made it out of groups, behind only the pool 1 team.
Ale non è male2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Lexer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HeN3sjlE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-05-15T03:08:34.264+0000)
Every? TSM had to play LGD/KT/Origen - a group which consisted of a #1 CH team, #2 KR team, and an eventual semifinalist as the pool 3 team. And the one time I think TSM actually did get an easy group (Season 4) - they made it out of groups, behind only the pool 1 team.
TSM get through that group in S4 only because Sven got banned for the racist incident in week 1 and SK was 0-3 with the sub jungler (Gillius that hadn't even play in LCS at that point) In 2nd week with Sven which was by far their best player, SK went 2-1 beating TSM and lose narrowly vs Worlds finalists
KazaLyn Shao1 votes[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HeN3sjlE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-15T02:39:52.783+0000)
C9 is a better team
TSM may have a better track record vs C9 but overall C9 performs better internationally. Every worlds, TSM gets an pretty easy group and they can't manage to get out....
Yes, C9s participation award in the special olympics is just a little bit shinier. Too bad they're all still dysfunctional retards.
Miror B1 votesA) Prize money is still a thing B) Because worlds still gives prize money regardless of finish (from what I can understand, even g2 made like $150k off it and they finished dead last in groups) C) Wouldn't it be nice to see a team other than TSM/CLG/C9 not make it out of groups?
III BAKURYU III 1 votesYeah, the NA split prize money but more so for just Worlds aspect more than anything for example; if TSM made it to Finals they would have the Spring Championship as well as the Points to be auto #2 if they would lose in the NA Finals. Wouldn't that be better for say TSM/C9 as both would have good points to be named #2 and not be in a group with #1's from the regions as stated before on another post.
The Worlds prize money is good but also having a better chance to advance with an "easier" group + the prize money. C.) I suppose but who can beat TSM/CLG/C9 most likely needing to beat all 3 to win Summer?
Miror B1 votesConsidering CLG's current roster looks like shite minus dardoch, I could very well see multiple teams contending against them. TSM isn't even considered a "sure thing" either as even if DL makes them a bit better you kinda have to think that losing in that fashion at MSI will haunt them for a while. Oh, and it's more about baby steps than anything. I'd much rather have an assured $150k than a chance at $300k.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesCLG - What CLG has Dardoch now ? That's great but at the same time it's not that great considering he's been frog jumping team to team with 0 results other than being mr. rage so, yeah I can see CLG being knocked off by another team not named TSM or C9.
At the same time tho lets look at the other teams to potentially knock off the 3 NA "juggernauts"
TL- Needs to pretty much either clean house or have multiple subs each week to "rebuild" for next year cause they're not a threat by any means.
IMT- I didn't know Dardoch left them so I don't know if IMT are even a team or got bought out or what but that team are pretty much in the " tank season" feel to it.
EF- Alliance 2.0, ... meh
NV - UH, first half of a split they look good, the second half they look complete garbage and vice versa for the second split. Too inconstant to even be considered a threat of making it top 3.
DIG/P1 - Good players on both teams but P1 doesn't seem to know what it wants as far as jungle goes and for DIG- I have 0 faith in Xpecial who needs to be replaced by a new support in my opinion.
FQ - Same with Echo Fox they have much better shotcalling goes and tend to do the right things but the execution is iffy for both but FQ are much better to say the least.
Over all TSM- Is a pretty good lock in for Worlds
C9 -C'mon it's C9 they will make it to Worlds and be in their 20th tie-breaker to get out of groups.
CLG- Dardoch is a massive improvement from X-Mithie but a young player on his 3rd team, with history of being toxic on a team that doesn't have the best of talent but more so built around communication instead; risky but most likely will pay off.
Miror B1 votesWill try to find the articles, but from what I can tell IMT and CLG swapped jg's and IMT is bringing in 3 additional new subs (stunt being one of them) to try and create a sister-ish team within the team. Oh, and it's not 100% confirmed yet, but goldenglue is expected to replace Ninja on NV.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesHmm, So GG is back huh; well replacing Ninja who dies in lane often with some one who not only will die in lane but won't even make a play in lane to try to get ahead. Let's just hope GG's X amount of time in Korea did him any good. To be fair I'v not kept track of GG so he could be Faker or some s$it idk only time can tell.
Stunt is an excellent player and while he did perform well on P1 he's on a "young" team that can build into a juggernaut in due time as far as I can tell at the moment. I like IMT's Org they have smart and down to Earth people that works inside the team, now they just need a team JUST A TEAM no superstar 1 split commitments or anything just a team that gets along with one and another and performs as such peacefully and getting Stunt was a move in the right direction.
MrHaZeYo1 votesI think overall P1 will beat out CLG this year, but they won't overtake C9 or TSM. Sneaky will set the new record for most consecutive worlds appearances this year. So there's that lol.
Pisykan1 votesall i can say about golden glue is he hit rank3 in korea at the highest i think and looked fantastic on stream, of course the Pro scene is 100% different.
MrHaZeYo1 votesTo be fair C9 had to play vs SKT, FW, and I May, and managed to make it out of groups.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesIndeed, but they were the #3 seed not the #1 seed for NA, but I get your point and a good one at that. I'm saying NA finished not just in the TOP 4 but were the runner ups at MSI last year and NA's payoff was NA #1 vs Lck #3 Lpl#2 and EU #3 NA #2 vs Lck #1 Eu #1 and INT NA #3 vs Lck #2 Lpl#3 and Lms#1 While Eu had their #2 seed face against 0 Korean teams, an International team(NOT talking shitt) and an LMS #2.
MrHaZeYo1 votesYa and that just makes it seem like complete luck.
C9 had to arguably face the hardest schedule of the non IWC teams to get out of groups and did it.
SKT and FW are no joke and Imay although imo not a good team is arguably better than C9 almost based solely on the fact they played vs harder competition in the LPL.
H2K had the easiest route out of groups then the easiest possible opponent possible to semis. Which is why I hate people use them as a EU made it to top 4 last year. Lets be real C9 and H2K would of made for a better set and although we'll never know who would of won I'd like to think C9 would of based mostly on the fact that NA was indeed the better overall region last year, I still think they are overall top to bottom better than EU. I wish we had the battle of Atlantic tourney again. Our Top 5 vs their top 5 would be fun to watch.
Ale non è male1 votesYa and that just makes it seem like complete luck.
C9 had to arguably face the hardest schedule of the non IWC teams to get out of groups and did it.
WHAT? Dude, FW and IMAY were trash last Worlds, easily bottom 5 teams alongside the BR wildcard, G2 and aHQ.
You got to give C9 credit for being mentally solid and be able to win the games that mattered to make through and for performing as best as they could, unlike other teams cough TSM cough, but their group was a piece of cake.
TSM and Splyce would have qualified out of that group, and CLG/G2 would have had decent chances too...that's why I call bull crap people complaining about H2K easy draw, both C9 and H2K got lucky, both CLG and G2 had an easy draw but they wasted it, and both TSM and Splyce got unlucky, and in the end EU got better result by an admittedly small margin all things considered
Smart Kitty1 votesI mean it sucks, but it didn't actually screw EU over last year. The only team that really suffered for them was splyce. G2 got drawn into a a group they could get out of, eventhough they underperformed and lost it. H2k actually ended up getting the easiest group out of the western teams. There's still a chance it could be beneficial.
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HeN3sjlE,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-15T02:12:29.137+0000)
Since NA lost their #1 seed at MSI and who ever wins the NA Summer Playoffs will be the #1 NA team to face potentially a #1 LCK team and a #2 Lpl, Eu and/or Lms team. My question is why would any of the NA teams want to win the Summer Playoffs now ?
Let's face it. #1, #2, #3. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is there are four groups of four and only three Korean teams. No Korean teams can be in the same group. So therefore, Four teams will get lucky and not have a Korean team in their group. The rest will be unlucky and get a Korean team in their group and be playing for a second seed. And once we get out of groups two teams will get lucky and play each other in the quarters. One of them will go into the Semis. Three teams will be unlucky and play a Korean team in the quarters. Those three unlucky teams will be going home along with the loser of the lucky draw match.
Who knows. The group draw may end up #1 G2, #2 NA champ, #2 Taiwan, #3 some wildcard team. G2 was in the same boat last year and got a group that in theory, they should have easily gotten out of. They went 1-5.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesTrue, true
Pisykan1 votesto be fair i think the competition except from SKT is fairly even and well distributed and there are no ''easy groups'' anymore as leagues getting bigger there is more info, more readily available ''paths' and structures for professional teams and more investment available.
long gone are the days of easy groups, except for super teams and really only SKT is a super team, down to reliable players and most of all a coach and backroom staff thats incredible
Ale non è male1 votesLet's face it. #1, #2, #3. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is there are four groups of four and only three Korean teams. No Korean teams can be in the same group. So therefore, Four teams will get lucky and not have a Korean team in their group.
Then you see that doesn't really matter if you are good, since Koreans other than SKT are beatable in groups and you can get a road to semi as long as you are a top 5 team in tournament (see OG in S5 Worlds, where they got through the group of death with Koreans in it)
GeminiRune1 votesI actually just watched that tiebreaker waking up early this morning. I can genuinely say I'm not even mad; they deserved that freaking loss.
But as for your question, I think this will just light fuel for hate/fear among fans as one of those teams will be put against the expected SKT should they not absolutely choke and other more efficient talents.
I don't think any team should necessarily fear the lesser seed with winning summer. I mean what all does it really mean? Equate it to G2's position last Worlds when put in group with ROX. Granted they were chokers as predicted by many and fell out last. But the result speaks to what teams were willing to put up to the competition. The trend of worrying makes it sound like the #1 NA team with the Pool 2 seed will replicate G2 record wise and we all know that's not remotely possible of more seasoned teams.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesTrue, just food for thought with #1 seeds from NA since the previous NA#1 seed draws in the past have been less rewarding.
I don't get mad myself especially since I already expect the worst from TSM/NA.
I just hope NA actually gets good enough to actually compete and soon considering like 40% of NA talent at this time are reaching 7+ years of LCS +X amount more before LCS days, so I'm sure they will want to quit soon maybe? IDK.
Then add like 30% NA players are from Korea or China and given they could come and go within a split or so.
I will say tho to close, NA ( we) missed our chance at making it big at Worlds in my opinion last year and that was our 1 chance at doing so. TSM- Spent a full year pretty much becoming this juggernaut, this win worlds type of team mentality, coaching, gyms, health stuff, 17-1 Summer Split, Dominated NA and lost just like that.
CLG - MSI was over but got so much damn respect ( kinda, considering the "we want IMT from NA" ) but they've proven to be great on the international stage and they knew it themselves and bam eliminated by an International team( not talking shit about the INT teams)
C9 - Yep, they made it out of groups.. Thank You - SKT for winning games for C9 to be able to advance and C9 didn't even have to play in a tie-breaker that they seem to always lose themselves 2014 vs NJS and 2015 vs AHQ.
Overall NA looks so weak compared to 2016 Summer and 2016 Spring was pretty good to(CLG MSI).
Yordle Xayah1 votesDon't worry too much. H2K still made it to semis last year after G2 lost the EU #1 seed on last year's MSI. For the record: I think C9 would have done better than TSM at MSI, but we'll never know about that.
Kal Vas Flam1 votesMSI doesn't really really mean anything and I think most teams are actually happy that they didn't go. In theory it gives your region a slightly better chance at victory at worlds, but it hasn't really shown to matter much and still only benefits one team.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesAre you talking about knowing what's under your sleeve type of not showing the enemy what tricks you may have, as to " I think most teams are actually happy that they didn't go"?