After MSI, Bjerg vs Jensen

Clexmix Deux·May 17, 2019·1 votes·2,085 views

So woke up to find out TL somehow beat IG 3-1. Checked a couple topics on the twitters and it's about how it was the best NA performance, how TL beat IG at their own game, how C9's world run was better (it was still, they were 10th at one point and made it to World's Semi's) and then it devolved into Bjerg vs Jensen talk.

After skimming through the games of TL vs IG one thing is definitely apparent to me. Team Liquid wins through team play, that's for sure. TL had a lot of number advantages and a decent amount was IG trying to take those fights and getting punished by Core JJ, not so much Jensen, I don't know how someone of that calibre can miss so many Sylas chains. None of these wins came off the back of Jensen. One would argue it was IG taking a lot of disadvantaged fights and Core JJ and either Xsmithie or Impact carrying their carries. I don't know how people try and make an argument of TL having the best bot laner and mid laner NA when constantly Doublelift needs funneled or he's garbo or Jensen literally needing Xsmithie and often times CoreJJ there to baby sit him so he doesn't get clapped over and over in mid.

This is apparent from IG having early pressure on him repeatedly Rookie constantly winning 1v1 trades and even numbered fights. None of this is Jensen popping off and going 1v9. Even on the games where Jensen has had high kill secure it's off the back of his team. And the only time he can translate that into solo kills is if he gets carried on his leblanc and gets secures until he finally just hits a 3-4 item spike where he can solo someone.

Now on the other side of this argument, Bjerg has always been a high performing player even when his line up is shit. Bjerg won how many titles with how many different players. Doesn't matter who his jg was or who his support was. And the only reason TL beat TSM in the finals of Spring was the coaches on TSM apparently don't know how to ban a Skarner and from misplays from TSM (Zven trying to solo Skarner in river) and Xsmithie literally carrying his team so hard, it was disrespect from TSM that lost them that series and not the Bjerg vs Jensen showdown. Also Broken Blade was the MVP of that series looking so good despite his team throwing, getting this "rookie" from Turkey, a region that hasn't accomplished much on the world stage, getting the best of Impact who has been revered as the best Top laner Na for a while. BB man handled Impact that series.

29 Comments

III BAKURYU III May 17, 20193 votes

2015 - 2017 Spring Bjergsen 2017 Summer - Now Jensen

The only thing that I can say Bjergsen has been better at than Jensen at is lane phase. Bjergsen seems so scared in teamfights, he collects all the farm in side lanes(RIP Dyrus), and he never seems t0 roam however, when he does roam(Syndra vs SSG Worlds 2016) good things happen.... but he just very rarely does so.

Bjergsen can keep his NA MVPs and NA Finals, Championships etc < Jensen actually proven himself on the International stage.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20192 votes

Jensen has ALWAYS been better than Bjerg. Never a contest. The only difference between the two is that Bjerg has more opportunity for flashy plays, because he doesn't play around his team, and Jensen will often take a back seat if he needs to for his time to thrive. Selfish play doesn't equal better play. Bjerg Trash. Jensen Forever.

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Jensen has ALWAYS been better than Bjerg. Never a contest. The only difference between the two is that Bjerg has more opportunity for flashy plays, because he doesn't play around his team, and Jensen will often take a back seat if he needs to for his time to thrive. Selfish play doesn't equal better play. Bjerg Trash. Jensen Forever.

Jensen has never been better than Bjerg. Bjerg doesn't even go for carries as much as Jensen and still outperforms him repeatedly. This is even more apparent when Bjerg plays the likes of Zoe or Zilien. Anytime Bjerg is on those champs he controls the game far better than Jensen can on those champs.

And Bjerg has done nothing but play around his team since the days of Lustboy and Santorin. The start of their crazy runs when DL and Bio were on the team they put so much more into DL and Hauntzer than they ever did on Bjerg. He literally got his gold leads from controlling lane and outplaying by himself. Watch their older games, DL gets so much gold donated through KS and waves while the team controls vision.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20192 votes

Bjerg can talk to Jensen when he has international success. Deal?

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Bjerg can talk to Jensen when he has international success. Deal?

You act like Jensen carried the team to those wins. He doesn't. If any singular player on TL deserves any credit, it's Xsmithie.

KVbqbFsC8eMay 17, 20191 votes

Where/how have you ever gotten the notion that Bjerg is not a team player?

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

Doesn't fight in team fights. Is often the only guy left alive on his team with full health at the end of a skirmish because he never went in or did anything. It's either he's not a team player, or the rest of the team just decides to fight without him.

III BAKURYU III May 17, 20191 votes

Forgive me if I don't know when but do you remember when Galio was played as a tank mid and he played it? Bjergsen was so scared to engage and his team died while he was full HP........as tank Galio.

People often say he carries TSM and TSM wouldn't be anything without him etc etc - and yeah, many sport teams BUILD their franchises around certain players and it folds when they leave(Orlando Magic, Denver Nuggets etc) Bjergsen didn't do s$it in EU nor was he the best mid(Xpeke, Froggen, Alex) were all ahead of him.
'Bjergsen has done more for TSM than TSM has done for BJergsen' LOL what? Bjergsen literally asked for EU's best bot lane at the time in Zven and Mithy and he still couldn't do s$it.
Now, Brokenblade has more of an impact than Bjergsen for TSM.

QuadraBananasMay 17, 20191 votes

i dont know about that whole bjerg vs jensen hype, but the compliment for jensen werent "carrying vs IG" it was "good job stopping the world best player" he didnt win lane, but rookie couldnt help much, (exept in game 4 when rookie had LB)

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

i dont know about that whole bjerg vs jensen hype, but the compliment for jensen werent "carrying vs IG" it was "good job stopping the world best player" he didnt win lane, but rookie couldnt help much, (exept in game 4 when rookie had LB)

Rookie was actually doing a lot, some of the turning points in the series when TL came back in the games were IG literally having an Alistar diving turret with 3v 4 or 5.. and just throwing in the weirdest ways. Doublelift was the reason Jensen even got the triple on Orianna on his Ori game, he was on pre nerf vayne reking IG in the river as they bottled up and team fought like crap. Like i said, it wasn't Jensen keeping Rookie down, it was more TL members on fights and IG throwing.

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

How are you going to say he doesn't fight in team fights? When he's on the likes of Zilean and gets stun after stun while keeping his team from dying? there's a difference between fighting in team fights and dying because of poor positioning vs. fighting with your team and controlling the fight while staying safe.

Just look at Jensen's Sylas game in G1 vs IG. He was 5/1 but NONE of those were him popping off, they were Xsmithie and Impact outplaying a gank and them turning the fight on Khan and Ning and Jensen hitting them like one time to secure kills. Again, advantage in numbers and getting kills donated. He never translated that 5/1 to anything off his back. It was again Xsmithie, who is probably one of the most underrated players in the LCS. That dude has carried so many teams it's unreal that no one talks about him. If anything I'd say Xsmithie > Jensen because when Xsmithie was having an off game or series TL would lose.

III BAKURYU III May 17, 20191 votes

Jensen was on Zilean against TSM in the Finals and won on such.

These are Bjergsen's and Jensen's Zilean career stats Bjergsen 22 Games 17-5 Win/Lost 2.82 Kills 1.09 Deaths 7.91 Assists 331.55 CS

Jensen 13 Games 11-2 Win/Lost 5.15 Kills 0.92 Deaths 6.92 Assists 323.31 CS

Yep, Jensen was having an off game on the International stage...... against the World Champions.... Are you really going to bring jungle pressure into this argument of Jensen and Bjergsen and his meme of 4 wards?

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

Also too, Bjerg has never been subbed out for an Academy mid-laner from poor performance. Let that sink in. Watch a lot of TL games and look at it with an unbiased eye, hell even the older C9 games. So many of Jensen's leads come from either getting assistance repeatedly or another midlaner misplaying terribly. Look at the game he was on LB vs Corki and Xsmithie ganked twice for KS for Jensen and Caps greeding terribly under turret. Just straight walks into the tower to e, auto.

Dr PoroMay 17, 20191 votes

Doesn't matter who's the best, it's a Dane.

BettnachlegerMay 17, 20191 votes

Bjerg won how many titles with how many different players.

Jensen got out of groups with how many different players? Oh wait, it doesn't matter, because bjergsen never got out of groups lol

III BAKURYU III May 17, 20191 votes

Once 2014 when Svenskeren was suspended for 1/2 of the tournament.

TSM 2016 faced RNG and SSG ' It can't be done' G2 2017 faced RNG and SSG ' It can't be done' C9 2018 faced RNG and SSG ' Hold our energy drink'

BettnachlegerMay 17, 20191 votes

I'm confused, what's your point?

III BAKURYU III May 18, 20191 votes

You said, " Oh wait, it doesn't matter, because bjergsen never got out of groups" in which he has made it out of groups but only once.

That TSM and G2 couldn't get past RNG and SSG but somehow Cloud 9 was able to do so.

BettnachlegerMay 18, 20192 votes

Ah nvm, got it. Was a little bit confused because I thought he joined tsm around like 2015 or something. Wow, he is playing in NA for ~7 years now. The time flys ;D

III BAKURYU III May 18, 20191 votes

2014 Spring -

Jesus, don't remind me...... lol

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Jensen got out of groups with how many different players? Oh wait, it doesn't matter, because bjergsen never got out of groups lol

Bjerg got out once. They then got beat by Samsung white in the quarters while C9 got beat by Samsung Blue. Svenskeren who played for EU's SK gaming, was suspended that year for making an account by the name of a racial slur.

BigBellBruteMay 17, 20191 votes

Jensen was 9-3-7 on Silas and he missed some of those hooks. But a lot of the time, they were flashed out of. Getting someone's flash, though it might not look awesome and worthy of being on the Penta, is a win. And you're not going to hit someone that flashes. And from what I've seen, nobody lands Silas hooks every time. I really don't see how you can fault him there.
The next game he was on Ori and he hit shock wave after important shock wave. Again I don't see how you can fault him.
Game 3, he didn't play well but it's Syndra into Le Blanc. A lot of people like that match up but I absolutely hate it. And well that's why I hate it.
Game 4. The guy breaks out a Lux.... 3-1-16 on a lux.

And you're going to rag on him?

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Jensen was 9-3-7 on Silas and he missed some of those hooks. But a lot of the time, they were flashed out of. Getting someone's flash, though it might not look awesome and worthy of being on the Penta, is a win. And you're not going to hit someone that flashes. And from what I've seen, nobody lands Silas hooks every time. I really don't see how you can fault him there.
The next game he was on Ori and he hit shock wave after important shock wave. Again I don't see how you can fault him.
Game 3, he didn't play well but it's Syndra into Le Blanc. A lot of people like that match up but I absolutely hate it. And well that's why I hate it.
Game 4. The guy breaks out a Lux.... 3-1-16 on a lux.

And you're going to rag on him?

It's not the fact people "flashed" out of them, most weren't flashed out of, it's the fact he was so far ahead and still couldn't hard carry. He was having to steal Alistar ults to stay alive in team fights that they had the advantage in.

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Clexmix Deux,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=FitgWrZv,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-05-17T23:28:57.459+0000)

It's not the fact people "flashed" out of them, most weren't flashed out of, it's the fact he was so far ahead and still couldn't hard carry. He was having to steal Alistar ults to stay alive in team fights that they had the advantage in.

There isn't a single Silas that hits every single hook. Jensen was instrumental in all 3 wins and had one bad game. And you're still ragging on him. Sour grapes.

APBL PrometheusMay 18, 20191 votes

Bjergsen is one of the strongest in lane similar to how Uzi is the king of Botlane. You cant camp him and he can go toe to toe with top Tier midlaner like Rookie and Faker even without his jgler unlike People like Jensen or Caps. His Weakness however is that he isnt as dominant as the latters on the map. Also his Teamfighting isnt that good compared to them.

In a nutshell : Very strong 1 vs 1 Player but thats all. ^^ His ability to Damage Control (which is Faker Trademark ability ) is the worst among all midlaner. If a Teamfight is bad , he is the first to run. ( In Comparison : Faker would at least take some kills and summoners before escaping the losing Team fight)

ReySolomonMay 18, 20191 votes

I always found those two to be Kings of mid together.

MakJuiceMay 18, 20191 votes

The bjergsen of old is still probably the best player in the west.

Jensen is too over-aggressive and is trying to push back from that.

Bjergsen has become wayyyy too passive, but that is a part of him not knowing his identity because their entire team doesn't know their identity.

If I had to choose, I would probably say Jensen is better now, but if I was building a team, I would pick Bjergsen and coach him back into his younger self.

Clexmix DeuxMay 19, 20191 votes

Hey look, G2 shut down Xsmithie in the MSI finals and no carry from Jensen.