Serious suggestion for pro games

Manmade Kangaroo·Apr 11, 2016·1 votes·778 views

Hi Riot,

These days when my partner and I talking about pro games, like LPL and LCK, we found we really miss the days before S4. Back then, there is less stylized BanPicks and game play, players were competing that depends more on own comprehension of champions and improvised reactions. Comparing today's professional league, not all decisions are optimal in old days. However, we can find more sparks and ingenious game playing in those matches and most importantly, much more different champions are played by pro gamers in serious matches and then shown to the audience worldwide.

I can hardly forget the Karthus playing by Toyz in S2 finals. It really inspired me and make me fall in love with LoL. Then I brought this champ and skins and wait one day I can see another ultimate triple kill in one game. Almost 4 years passed and I am still waiting.

Therefore, I feel the mechanism of pro games should change. It should give some chances to non-popular or, specifically, so called unbalanced champions, like brand and Nasus. And these chances should not come from enhancing their power. Because it will break the balance in normal and rank games heavily and as a reasult they would soon be nerfed. Adding some likable mechanisms, like dodging or teleport, could make them come to the stage but it will ruin the original design. Never do that.

My suggestion is giving a smaller but random champion pool before every march. This pool should have even numbers of each position and several reserves, E.g. 5 each line， 10 totally random from the rest so it would be totally 35 champions that could be used in the following game. This change could have positive effects on many aspects:

For pro players, instead of only focusing on a couple of OP champions within current patch, a comprehensive understanding of all other champions become crucial. In this gaming mode, reaction speed may have less contribution yet experience and creativity does. As a result, it gains the possibility for players in their 20s or even 30s to carry the team.

For audience, we can see more different champions playing on top stage. There must be some amazing plays made by some less popular champions and that would be the X factor to each single game. Simply, the game would be more attractive and more instructive.

For Riot, more champions will put under the lime light and hence more skins could be sold (most important!). Maybe even less work for champion adjustment in each patch.

Note, I do not mean this mode should replace the current one. Maybe a combination of these two would be a good trial. Like, in BO3, only the third game using this mode, and for BO5, is the 3rd and 5th.

Okay, I stop here. I will really happy to see if this could put into real practice. Starting from all-stars, good experimental field right? If it turns out to be my own wishful thinking. Please get it back to me cz I need to persuade my brain to stop from keeping thinking this. Cheers.

12 Comments

Mr BorgApr 11, 20162 votes

The same problem would exist. Even if you limited the champ pool, there would be a clear few best champs within the pool. Even if you randomized it before the game, you would still be able to easily predict picks. Also it would be a lot harder to balance because Riot would get fewer easily-visible and high-value data points about what's too strong. I guarantee they're realizing their Ekko buffs were a bad idea partly because of the LCS.

And innovation isn't dead. Graves mid, Lucian top, Urgot mid, just three things that happened last weekend. Sure not all of them worked, but that's how innovation goes.

Manmade KangarooApr 12, 20161 votes

Thanks for your reply. What I want to stress is increasing the chance for some champions that have less chance to get to top stage. Surely even in that small pool, there is very likely to have few T1 champions like Azir and lulu. Yet, it is less likely to have TEN T1 champions in one game. Team would have to make quick and effective decision to get the champions who have the most chemistry between them. It is like playing poker, joker not always win.

Admittedly, innovation still there, it happens in all leagues around world. But it is increasingly hard to see because of the pressure from the surroundings. Huni is one of my favorite and I think he is one of the few genius that still PLAYING the game rather than doing the job. However, would he dare to play top luci one more time in coming matches? Even he do (I trust him), the coach does not, the team does not.

I prefer to believe that Faker want to play Leb more than lulu, UZI want to use VN rather than sivir. People say they make sacrifice in order to help the team and win and they really did. F@#@king sacrifice.

{quoted}

The same problem would exist. Even if you limited the champ pool, there would be a clear few best champs within the pool. Even if you randomized it before the game, you would still be able to easily predict picks. Also it would be a lot harder to balance because Riot would get fewer easily-visible and high-value data points about what's too strong. I guarantee they're realizing their Ekko buffs were a bad idea partly because of the LCS.

And innovation isn't dead. Graves mid, Lucian top, Urgot mid, just three things that happened last weekend. Sure not all of them worked, but that's how innovation goes.

iamleburkApr 13, 20161 votes

Their job is to win the game. Huni fucked up, if he wants to play off meta he has to play it near perfect. There is plenty of innovation in the game right now, but you have to understand the meta if you want to play off meta. Right now, it is hardest to play off meta in jungle and top lane. That's just how the game is balanced at the highest level right now. Huni could play any tank he wants top. He can play Hecarim, why didn't he try that? Jungle if you don't play the main three jungles (Graves/Nid/Kindred), you are fucking up (looking at reignover) and same for top lane if you don't play some type of tank. It doesn't even matter too much what tank it is, just has to be a tank.

I think you overestimate how much players like Faker and Uzi want to play those champions. These players don't care about the champions they play as much as winning and proving that they are better players. Faker more for winning (he likes to bring honor to his region/team and to build his legacy) and Uzi more for proving he is better than his opposition. Faker is also famous for having a godly champion pool. One example of that is that you think he would prefer to be on leblanc, but his favorite champions are Ahri and Zed.

And mid lane, adc, and support have a lot of available flexibility right now. Urgot, Velkoz, Karma, Zed, Varus, Leblanc, Malzahar, Zilean, Ashe, Tristana, Bard, Soraka, Janna, Jhinn... And that's just in the last two weeks.

Someone also tried Khazix but I don't think we should talk about that one XD.

iamleburkApr 13, 20161 votes

You didn't mention the Velkoz pick from Bjerg, the Tristana pick from Stixxay, the Soraka pick from Aphromoo and the frequent Ashe picks from ROX. There has been quite some adaptation in the Korean scene, with Gragas top, Karma mid (Faker saw GBM do it, picked it up and now it's meta), Ryze Mid/top, Azir, Tank ekko top, Zilean, Rammus, Jungle Rumble... Just recently we saw LZ bring out a full damage Fiora to deal with Tank ekko, and for KT you literally have to ban out their Zilean/Poppy comp because they are so good at playing with it.

Manmade KangarooApr 15, 20161 votes

It seems you misunderstanding my point. I dont mean there is no innovation, yet just as your saying ' It doesn't even matter too much what tank it is, just has to be a tank.' I really dont like this.

The point you make is correct, a player need to understand the meta and followed what has been suggested to play on his position. Everyone has the right to ignore this and play what he wants to play, so called innovation in many cases, but admittedly with every high risk. It is like sailing against the current ------ you can make it but it's a tough job. Moreover, When it has relation with money and fame, man would make their decision with even more caution.

I don't like current or trend, this is my point, it makes every game looks similar and it restricts creativity of pro gamers. However, if just let the game starts freely, no matter how much effort RIOT has put into the balance of champions, the meta you called, there must be a trend and there must be some restrictions.

iamleburkApr 15, 20161 votes

It seems you misunderstanding my point. I dont mean there is no innovation, yet just as your saying ' It doesn't even matter too much what tank it is, just has to be a tank.' I really dont like this.

Then what is your point? The whole thing about a meta is that you have the main champions that are strong (but it usually takes a while to figure out what those champions are, so you have a lot of cool variations when teams are trying to figure out the good champions) and a bunch of side champions that can be used effectively once in a while, whether through a counter pick or through substitution of another champion.

Sure, you might not like it, but that's just how the game is. And that is how professional play has always been, they are very much used to having to adapt to different metas. Obviously a pro has the right to ignore the meta, but that will also obviously be risky because they are playing sub-par picks.

As great as a perfectly balanced game sounds, it's just simply not possible. So you're pretty much getting frustrated with something that can not be changed. Am I getting this right? Is your point really just "I don't like how the game always has to be the same champions"? Because the meta changes like every month. God forbid you go into any other pro scene... those metas last for years. That's actually a criticism of LoL, they don't let a meta sit for long enough and pros never really figure out exactly how to play it.

My suggestion is stop obsessing over champion picks and start paying attention to the strategy of the game. Look at pro games the same you would an intense, master chess match. There are so many variations and stylistic choices throughout the game from different teams (obviously only the top ones.. shit teams just do random stuff and get destroyed because of it), and that strategy keeps it interesting. So, imo, when you're getting bored by the pro scene, you just aren't paying attention to the fun stuff, and are only looking at the surface (i.e. champion picks).

That said, I do love watching a player style on someone else, or bring out a great counter pick, especially when it's a mid laner. Like Dardoch with full AD lee sin, GBM with tank Zed, Faker with Riven/Cassio (which was brought out this morning), Fly with Malzahar, Bjerg with Vel'koz, etc etc. It's great watching style picks, but you have to realize that's only used when a player wants to BM in a way like "I can win playing any champion here lol you guys suck" type deal.

And people always exaggerate how much draft influences the game. I agree it's huge, but I've never seen a game outside of Korea where it wasn't the team messing up execution rather than draft fucking it up for them. IMT should have won that game with Lucian top, but they fucked it up. They had a big lead and threw it away like a bunch of idiots.

Manmade KangarooApr 16, 20161 votes

AAAAAAAAAAA, what u said is totally right, I am so fucking agree. BUT U STILL DID NOT GET MY POINT.....

You know and so do I: Balance game like communism, we chase it but it never come true.. (Ask a Chinese friend if you need help to understand this)
The current competing system for pro games, please understand, I have no problem with it and I do know how to enjoy it. I kept watching it for years and if I cant find any fun in it I would quit long long ago.
My point: it would be interesting and also worthwhile to develop a new competing mode for pro leagues. Giving a smaller but random champion pool before one game could test and challenge every competitors involved in another way. One of the main tests is a comprehensive understanding of other champions instead of those good champions in current meta and those who has all-time great mechanism, e.g. lulu and Azir. There may have some other effects and pointed out in my original post.

PLEASE NOTE: I just say it would be interesting and could have many good influence. Arguing against my mode rather the reason I come to this. Everyone got his own preference and it is pointless to criticize it. Comeon, no one knows whether it could work without a practice. Try it in some relaxed occasions, like All-star, then let's see whether it has the value to put in pro leagues.

Anyway, still thanks for your reply. If possible come back in chinese, feel fucking tired....

iamleburkApr 16, 20161 votes

A) Fuck communism, never chasing that idiocy. But that's off topic, I agree we always want balance, that's true.

B) Okay

C) the thing you misunderstand here is that a smaller pool of champions would make the game too unreliable for pros. Some champion pools would favor one type of player or maybe they would favor one combination of champion and they would DEFINITELY effect blue/purple side balance.

I personally doubt your mode has much merit behind it. It's too volatile for something that people base their salary off of. It very well might make for more entertaining games, but you have to think about the pros who are using this game to live.

However, I had a similar idea. I think it would be really good for the professional scene if we had money matches. A money match is just a series between two teams that has no effect on standings, it's only for a direct prize pool. There are a lot of good reasons to make it a staple in the scene, perhaps I'll make my own thread about it.

You can use google translate to get it into Chinese <3

MalfiniApr 13, 20161 votes

Or do blindpick on pro matches.

Manmade KangarooApr 15, 20161 votes

Problem may not be solved in Blindpick as it is still high possibility for choosing T1 champions and most OP combos. What I want to make is let some T2 T3 NO-T champions playing on the stage without powering up or changing their mechanism.

Manmade KangarooApr 11, 2016

As a non English user, it really takes some time to write this...hmm...essay? Well all replies are welcome. But I can only recognize the negative ones in Chinese. XD.