@Riot: Visa issues in the LCS

Amuq the Native·Jan 28, 2016·5 votes·6,208 views

I'm writing this in hopes that someone in the E-sports section of Riot reads this and can provide some answers.

Last season, there already were some visa issues. I can't remember any precise examples right now, but it happened several times that players were unable to compete and had to be replaced for a week or two. Korean players in the NA LCS had to go back to Korea for one week or two while their visa was being renewed or something. Ah, and Xmithie almost didn't make it to Worlds.

We are now week 3 of the Spring Split of Season 6, and things are not getting better at all. If anything, they are worse. Last week, at least Froggen and Freeze couldn't play due to visa issues. And this week, it's reaching Europe too: Ryu, Edward and Diamondprox will not play. Because visas.

This situation is bad for everyone. It's certainly bad for players, who must feel a lot of stress and pressure. It's obviously bad for teams, who have to play with substitute. It's bad for fans, who expect to see their favourite players on stage and are disappointed time and time again. It's bad for fantasy players, who can't reliably draft their compositions. And it's bad for you, Riot, because it looks very unprofessional. When I see that the same problem, which should be well-known by now, is happening again and again and is still as disruptive as ever, I can't help but feel that this is handled in a very amateurish way, and that E-sports are far from being mature yet.

I realize that the visa issue is intrinsically difficult. There are a lot of laws with a lot of countries, and the very concept of not being able to freely travel and work anywhere sucks. I also realize that it's ultimately on the teams to fix these issues for players, and if they can't, and can't provide adequate substitutes, they have to forfeit - but nobody wants this. So, since it seems to be such a common problem occurring to so many teams, I think that you, Riot, should step in and do something about it.

What? I don't know. You know better than I do. But I would suggest something like:

Establish a "help with visas" section, with international visa law experts, that would centralize all the regularization procedures, and that would be the place for players and teams to go to get their issues solved quickly.
Establish stricter regulations so that teams have to address work permit issues in advance, with lots of forewarning. Yeah, that means earlier deadlines. That means the offseason is locked in earlier. That probably means that Echo Fox wouldn't have made it into this season. Honestly, as much as I like Rick Fox and Froggen, I'll take more stable rosters any day over a team barely making it into the LCS.
Put on stricter penalties for visa issues if they are not being handled by your centralized section. A team tried to be smart and import a player without going through you, and now the player is being detained in local Ellis Island ? Put a black mark on their record, something that will not forfeit the match (because we want to see matches, even with substitutes!) but that will somehow hurt their ratings at the end of the split. Or a fine, so Nick Allen knows he's not forgotten.

Anyway, please do something. Think of something. I know you can. I know it's hard, but the status quo is definitely not good. And worst case, please acknowledge this and give us some transparency. If you can't do anything because it would be worse than doing nothing, please say it, and if you can, please explain what you thought of and why it wouldn't be a good idea. At least we will know, and we will endure.

Sincerely,

-- Amuq, an enthusiastic - but a bit annoyed - LCS fan.

17 Comments

RiotGG HunterJan 30, 20167 votes

First of all, thanks for taking the time to give us your thoughts. It goes without saying that this has been a disruptive - and in some cases really disappointing - stretch for fans of the NA and EU LCS.

You raise some great questions - here are a few thoughts on some of the issues, at least from an NA perspective. We’re working closely with the EU team on these issues to ensure that collectively we’re raising the bar across the board.

We agree with you that it’s a really crappy situation when players are held back by visa issues - both for them and for fans hoping to see them. Having to bench a player in the middle of the split due to circumstances out of their control is the worst case scenario for teams.

Gaining visas for international players, as you say, is a complex process - made even more complex when it comes to multiple organizations taking responsibility for the process and players of several nationalities.

One of our major realizations moving forward is that we need to draw a much harder line, with teams proving that their players are fully work eligible before getting into a competitive split. In the past, as we said in the Echo Fox competitive ruling, we relied on guarantees from teams and high-level spot checks: it’s clear that isn’t enough. We’ll be taking a close look at this within this split and will enter the mid-season break with a stricter process that guarantees each starting roster is fully eligible for the LCS. This will place additional pressure on teams to lock down a roster far earlier than they might have in previous splits, but we will also be providing additional resources and structure to support them.

Behind the scenes we already offer help with visa resources, including access to law experts, but I think the points you make here are valid. There’s more that we can do to get newer team owners the resources they need before they reach crisis stage - and we’ll be looking into ways to beef us that support. Legally this burden is on the teams, they employ the players. But practically this burden is shared between us, teams and players. We will be stepping up our support to ensure that players aren’t getting left behind in the rush to start the season.

Finally, when it comes to stricter penalties, we’re certainly establishing a zero-tolerance policy for any non-eligible players within the LCS moving forward. Our goal is for there to be no surprises about whether or not a player can legally play within the country they’re competing in at the beginning of the split. Some of this will come with new definitions and structure around what a roster is, possibly with a Reserve and Active roster allowing for more fluid states (signed but not eligible yet). We know that setting clearer expectations and regulations will hopefully put this right in the future.

FuntaCJan 30, 20161 votes

The simple answer would be to require team rosters to be completed early enough, so that a critical moment in a series does not happen. That requirement would include a statement in regard to a "number of appropriately ranked completed games" by team composition, and that there be a minimum "accumulated time of residence in the jurisdiction of pertinent authorities of the professional venue" that would give the competition holders reasonable confidence.

Amuq the NativeJan 30, 20161 votes

Thanks a lot for answering. I appreciate that Riot is willing to listen, recognizes there is a problem and is already working on a solution. I'm looking forward to hearing about the new policies and watching a more stable Summer Split!

StillnameJan 28, 20162 votes

The only thing riot could do about it is move the EU LCS to a country that is more visa friendly for league players. France has been suggested as they recognize e-sports as an official job as opposed to Berlin, where it currently is, does not.

They already offer help for teams to get their players visa's and it is definitely not just on the individual player to get one. The teams offer a lot of help for players, but there isn't much they can do if the country just won't give them one.

I think they have to seriously consider moving out of Germany though if they can't get visa's for players there.

MAGA MAN X 2020Jan 29, 20162 votes

Viva la France! I loved the French crowd at worlds!

Photos of GhostsJan 30, 20161 votes

Why in Spanish/Italian tho

Ale non è maleJan 30, 20161 votes

Spain, Italy, France have pretty much all the same problem..they don't have an agreement with South Korea (Annex country), ehich is allowing most of Koreans in EU LCS to be work eligible while they work to complete the application for the true work visa, unlike what germany have The guys arguing for the french solution are doing it just because, unlike what is hapening in Germany, the career of esports players is being recognized as work in the list of works for which you can apply for a visa, and so orgs won't have the problems they are having in Germany where orgs have troubles to get work visa because esports is not accepted as job for visa application...and so they got to find the quibble in the law to get the work visa for these guys - but now that the question is exposed German authorities won't close an eyes on these -,... but still, since the process for getting a visa work is long, it is not like moving to France would istantly solve the problems as there would be no shortcuts

The solution would be moving to a country like Belgium or Netherlands that have this agreement with South Korea and where the application for work visas are less restrictive than germany that is one of the strictest in EU

P.S. Side note, Italy should really get some event sooner than later, because it is the only big EUW country that hasn't hosted a big esport event

Photos of GhostsJan 30, 20161 votes

Nopenopenope I meant why did he say "viva la" which is Spanish or Italian, not French :P

Ale non è maleJan 31, 20161 votes

Ah ok .. XD Probably he just mispelled/misunderstood, since is Vive la France

Photos of GhostsJan 31, 20161 votes

Yea but I saw it several times. I think that's what people actually believe french is like...

Ale non è maleJan 31, 20161 votes

Yeah, but generally some english speaking people make confusion between the mediterranean countries languages like french, spain and italy

As joke, in southern italy we say that spanish is easy, it is enough to add "s" at the end of the words to correctly talk in spanish, but it is obvious to any eu people that they are NOT the same language. Yet, people still confound them a lot, probably because of the distortion of the accent when they try to reprdouce italian and spanish accents

KabraxisJan 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=FAqnXrv8,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-31T00:52:55.498+0000)

Yeah, but generally some english speaking people make confusion between the mediterranean countries languages like french, spain and italy

As joke, in southern italy we say that spanish is easy, it is enough to add "s" at the end of the words to correctly talk in spanish, but it is obvious to any eu people that they are NOT the same language. Yet, people still confound them a lot, probably because of the distortion of the accent when they try to reprdouce italian and spanish accents

Normally though Spanish and Italian both come from Latin which is similar. French isn't that hard with a latin base.

Ale non è maleJan 31, 20161 votes

They are similar, but confuse Italian with Spanish (it happen rarely the other way around) is just something that should hardly happen as the differences are recognizable without much difficulty

MAGA MAN X 2020Jan 29, 20161 votes

Yea I agree it's kinda BS that this is happening. This is an issue I could understand in the LCS's infancy but we're 6 seasons deep, this shouldn't be an issue at this point. I still don't understand how it's possible that an established player like Ryu could be scrutinized while people like Gamsu and Emperor are totally legit. Whatever it is that those two did differently, why the fuck hasn't Ryu done the same? It's understandable in DP's case as Russia isn't one of America's sideho's, but shouldn't all Korean players be in the same boat?

KabraxisJan 31, 20161 votes

I don't understand why you are addressing Riot for this. Froggen is NOT A NEW PLAYER and should know better, he has played internationally before as well. This should be on the players themselves and the teams. Riot as I understand already offers help to the teams/players but the brunt of the blame lies mainly on the player.

Again using Froggen as the example for him to not know he needed a work visa by now is just simply silly and ignorant.

Amuq the NativeJan 31, 20161 votes

Oh, definitely. Froggen is not a new player. Neither is Freeze, or Seraph, or Edward, or Diamondprox, or Ryu. Or Xmithie. They're all so short-sighted, all stupid - ALL of them. And your teammate who goes 0-5 in the laning phase is just a bloody f***ing idiot, he should simply know better.

So you can stick to that attitude and blame them all, and then you don't understand why you won your lane and lost your game - again. That stupid team, why can't you get decent teammates for once? And this week the LCS is full of substitutes again, GOD why can't those moronic players and teams fix their sh*t ?

OR you could realize that the end goal (winning a game, having stable LCS rosters) is more important than being self-righteous. If visa issues are happening to so many players, maybe it's their own damn fault, maybe it's just really hard to get a proper visa, maybe both (probably both), who cares - I don't want a culprit, I want a solution. And a good place to look for a solution is Riot, who's in the middle of all this, is also interested in making things run smoothly, and has resources.

Turns out they agree with me - they have identified a common problem and are working on it. They're being proactive. And this is why they win their games even if you crush them in lane.

KabraxisJan 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amuq the Native,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=FAqnXrv8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-01-31T08:41:20.039+0000)

Oh, definitely. Froggen is not a new player. Neither is Freeze, or Seraph, or Edward, or Diamondprox, or Ryu. Or Xmithie. They're all so short-sighted, all stupid - ALL of them. And your teammate who goes 0-5 in the laning phase is just a bloody f***ing idiot, he should simply know better.

So you can stick to that attitude and blame them all, and then you don't understand why you won your lane and lost your game - again. That stupid team, why can't you get decent teammates for once? And this week the LCS is full of substitutes again, GOD why can't those moronic players and teams fix their sh*t ?

OR you could realize that the end goal (winning a game, having stable LCS rosters) is more important than being self-righteous. If visa issues are happening to so many players, maybe it's their own damn fault, maybe it's just really hard to get a proper visa, maybe both (probably both), who cares - I don't want a culprit, I want a solution. And a good place to look for a solution is Riot, who's in the middle of all this, is also interested in making things run smoothly, and has resources.

Turns out they agree with me - they have identified a common problem and are working on it. They're being proactive. And this is why they win their games even if you crush them in lane.

First off I am not talking about my in-game partners or anything. We are talking out of game. Your whole post is semi-retarded no offence. It is not Riot's fault that these players didn't get their proper Visa's done before the split begun. It is up to the players themselves. They are ADULTS not children in kindergarden who need their hands held for everything, as well as RIOT already stated they have people in place to help them do this.

Yet even with this help in place the players AND the teams didn't see the need to verify that all was in order? No none of this is the fault of Riot. If you know ahead of time that you will be playing somewhere where a work visa is required then there is no reason why you wouldn't move to get that done ASAP especially when there is financial incentive to get it done.