LoL ESports is going to die quickly unless something is done

Lugg·May 19, 2017·3 votes·2,281 views

Let's be real here. There is zero doubt that SKT will win Worlds yet again this season. They are literally the Korean All Star team and, for sake of the sport, need to be broken up. In all honesty, it makes watching the games extremely boring when you know who is going to win 90% of the time.

The best thing Riot could do in Korea is this: Every team gets to pick two players to keep and the rest go into a pool. Then there is a draft with the lowest ranking team getting first pick and the highest ranking team gets last pick. The even rounds then go in reverse order. This would even out the Korean league and allow for some actual competition. Then you impose a salary cap world wide. That way teams just can't buy championships. This is why every major sport has salary restrictions, to prevent one sided teams.

The other thing is to actually balance the champion pool. Six champions in each role is about all that is played during any given split. Which again, is extremely boring to watch. People are actually tired of watching the #LCSBigPlays when it's the same champions doing them every game. Let's see some Volibear, Mundo, Cho'Gath, Trundle, and Skarner play once in awhile.

112 Comments

Truly PridefulMay 20, 20178 votes

Or maybe other teams can just step up their game. I don't like them winning constantly, but you can't punish them for being better than other teams. Eventually someone will step up and beat them, maybe not this season though.

LuggMay 20, 20171 votes

I just looked up the salary numbers that SKT pays their team. It's light years ahead of anyone else in any region. They are literally buying championships right now.

HKT StrikerMay 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I just looked up the salary numbers that SKT pays their team. It's light years ahead of anyone else in any region. They are literally buying championships right now.

It's not lightyears ahead of anyone else. In fact, they don't give much more that ROX, SSG or KT. They are not buying championships since G2, FW and SSG exist, and SKT certainly don't suceed at obliterating these teams. They often lose games against them..

LuggMay 23, 20171 votes

Their worst win rate against any of those teams right now is 60%. That's pretty dominate.

HKT StrikerMay 24, 20171 votes

and 60% is enough for an upset to happen.

JoxcabMay 19, 20176 votes

Yeah let's punish teams for being good.

Stop shitposting you fishcake.

LuggMay 19, 20171 votes

They are good because they have the money to field the best team. Period.

Tell me how that's fair or balanced?

EPIKONMay 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

They are good because they have the money to field the best team. Period.

Tell me how that's fair or balanced?

Please give us this "SKT have the money to field the best team" in actual fucking numbers i.e. facts and none of your make-belief bullshit you bring on here every fucking time there's an international tournament.

How about you start scrutinize other organizations and its players that's only in it to make money from competitive play instead of continuing to invest and sacrifice to field a better team year in and year out like SKT.

FFS, bring better ideas than this draft BS alternative because that's not being fair to its region, its organization and its individual players.

Just shut the fuck up and leave already.

eSports will be better off without you than with your salty ass.

LuggMay 20, 20172 votes

[deleted]

HKT StrikerMay 20, 20174 votes

Faker's salary alone is estimated to be $2.5 million dollars.

The website you found this statement in clearly is not creditable. You shouldn't trust random sites on google.

LuggMay 20, 20171 votes

I found the same info on multiple sites. That's why I consider it fairly accurate.

HKT StrikerMay 21, 20173 votes

It was just a rumor. I found it on multiple sites too but most of them were posted by fans, and so it is very possible that it is fake.

LuggMay 21, 20171 votes

There is that possibility, but SKT has made well over $7 million in prize money alone this last year, so they could easily do it.

HKT StrikerMay 23, 20171 votes

But it doesn't mean they WILL do it. Faker most likely isn't going to leave SKT until either the team is disbanded or that he decides to retire.

LuggMay 23, 20171 votes

Yeah, no way he leaves SKT. They make at least 10's of millions off of him being on their team. They would easily pay him $3 mil to stay since they would come out way ahead.

EPIKONMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You must be one of those SKT fanboys who sucks off Faker every time you see him.

I can't believe you are actually stupid enough for me to have to throw out numbers, but here we go.

Faker's salary alone is estimated to be $2.5 million dollars. That's what SKT pays him. That isn't appearance fees, money he makes streaming, etc. Peanut is making around $1 million. Wolf makes about $635,000. Bang $631,000. Huni is making at least half a million but probably closer to $750,000. Hell the subs on SKT make $300,000-400,000. No other team comes remotely close to paying as much for their whole team as much as Faker makes alone.

In the latest numbers I could find for prize money, SKT made $7.12 MILLION dollars. So they have TONS of cash to buy the best coaches and analysts as well. That doesn't even include the hundreds of millions they make from endorsements and promos in Korea.

To put this in perspective, the top tier teams in Korea (KT Rolster, SSG) other than SKT pay their players an average of $35-40,000 a year. The low tier teams pay around $9,000-12,000! Yeah, that's some real parity there.

So as you can easily see, SKT players make exponentially more money than the other players. In other words, if this was a game, I just went 50-0 on you in lane. People are literally laughing at you at this point. So please, do yourself the favor and don't try to talk down to people who know an encyclopedias worth of knowledge about the game more than you.

Faker's salary is estimated to be $2.5 million? Whatever you are smoking, just stop.

STOP MAKING SHIT UP AND GIVE US FACTUAL NUMBERS.

LCK just started to pay $100,000 to its top tier players and there are less than a handful of players who gets that.

Faker ain't making anything close to $2.5M in salary you claim he does. I'm not surprised you are dumb enough to think any LCK organization would pay a gamer such salary. If you are basing off of thinking because a couple LPL team offered such salary and because Faker didn't move out of SKT thus thinking SKT matched the offer, just stop now. SKT made sure he is the highest paid player in LCK but it ain't nothing close to your claimed numbers.

Peanut makes around $1M? LMFAO. I was his mod for international streams way back since his trainee days with Najin. Stop making shit up. I knew how much he made then and I have an idea of how much he makes now but nothing close to your claimed numbers.

Minimum salary in LCK is not even $10,000 and average salary was around $22,000 just a year ago.

Whatever money these players make are off of sponsorship, streams and prize money. And SKT is one of the better organizations to attract sponsorship, stream viewers and they win lots of prize money.

That ain't part of fucking salary you claim that SKT has advantage over other organizations. How in the world did you even come up with an idea to put a handicap on an organization, further a region, just because they have better success internationally over other organizations and regions. What are you a fucking communist?

If you want better sponsorship, win more.

You want more stream viewers, play better.

You want more prize money, earn it.

As for you Luggs, please fuck off and stop making shit up.

LuggMay 20, 20171 votes

You can easily see that I'm right about Faker's salary if you would even do a simple search online. MULTIPLE sources have verified it. The same for everything else I posted.

But i'm now seeing you are so biased that you wouldn't believe it if SKT themselves told you.

HKT StrikerMay 21, 20174 votes

it's reddit, anyone can post on reddit. Other source i found it on are all non-credible sites, except for 2, which both say 'it could really be 2.5 million' and not 'it is 2.5 million'

LuggMay 21, 20171 votes

Even if it's 'just' 2 million, that's probably more than double any other player in the world.

EPIKONMay 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Even if it's 'just' 2 million, that's probably more than double any other player in the world.

Shut the fuck up already.

Faker ain't getting paid anything close to your made up numbers.

He could be making such money through prizes, streams and individual sponsorship however his salary from SKT is in the ballpark of $200,000 at the most.

PisykanMay 23, 20171 votes

no, its been all but confirmed, his CONTRACT not salary is worth 2.6m dollars for its entirety.

PisykanMay 23, 20171 votes

no they are good because they have the best coaching staff and org set-up.

LuggMay 23, 20171 votes

Which they got by paying the most. It's not rocket science.

PisykanMay 24, 20171 votes

no. they invested in KkOm, they didnt just secure a well known coach they secured a respected player at said time he had 0 experience as a coach, they never poached him and they never head hunted, the players have also largely been discovered by them not drafted in.

Prior to playing League of Legends, kkOma played StarCraft 2 under the name "LittleBoy" and played for Team Old Generations. After unsuccessful attempts at qualifying for GSL Code A, he quit StarCraft 2 to play League of Legends for StarTale alongside Vitamin, Ryu, Score and MaFa.

After playing with StarTale, he then retire from competitive play and became the Coach of SK Telecom T1 K. In October 2013, kKoma and team won their first World Championship title. The team failed to make it to Worlds in 2014 and SKT was rebuilt in 2015, in compliance with the restructuring of the LCK. After the departure of Impact, Piglet and PoohManDu from the team, kKoma and the rest of the coaching staff decided to add former SK Telecom T1 S' bot lane, Bang and Wolf and top laner MaRin to the starting roster, as well as Easyhoon as substitute Mid Laner.

With the new roster, kKoma and team won their 3rd and 4th LCK title and 2nd World Championship. He then became the first and only only to have two World titles under his belt. This was then followed by another LCK title, aWorld Championship belt and a Mid-Season Invitational trophy in 2016.

In 2017, kKoma won his 2nd consecutive Mid-Season Invitational trophy with an 8-2 run in the Group Stage, a 3-0 victory against Flash Wolves in the Semifinals and a 3-1 win over G2 Esports in the Finals.

Kal Vas FlamMay 19, 20174 votes

GeminiRuneMay 19, 20174 votes

Yeah...no...to your starting point onward I have no real reason to agree with you. And your idea just makes it even more demeaning that it will die. It'll die to the fans probably but that's already started to happen and has been happening for over a year now. Your post is making a big hodgepodge of "suggestions" that the spring split had throughout this board, now including limitations on Korean teams.

So why even grieve? Flash Wolves did not show up after Game 1. Period. SKT played their game as they always try to do day in and day out. And they're not invincible. It's just that nobody's that consistent anywhere this season.

So if you're defeating yourself from the same thing over and over - the same champions and compositions - I would honestly say to take a step back instead of vocalize for approval because the way a lot of opinions go makes it appeal to the fans instead of the players actually playing for a career.

LuggMay 19, 20171 votes

Ok, who do you think will win Worlds this year? If you pick anyone but SKT, I'm sure lots of people would make bets with you.

As for the rest of your post, fans drive ANY sport. If you lose the fans, your sport dies. Period. So yes, you have to cater to them.

GeminiRuneMay 19, 20171 votes

Did you expect and predict SKT to go 10-0 in Group Stage? Did you think Flash Wolves was the clear cut 2nd place team no matter what? Did you think Gigabyte Marines would show up as well as they did back at the start of the play in stage? If you can answer yes to all of those and then some honestly, then you're no master of foreshadowing. Anyone can just say "Oh SKT's gonna win again" and walk away from it all. But the road leading to it told a story that people are too ignorant to pay attention to because of how pessimistic they make themselves out to be.

And we're not talking sports. We're talking eSports, which continues to grow through its games. An eSport doesn't die because the same players/teams keep winning where it matters. There is far more technicality that I doubt you or a lot of people who follow LoL Esports and only that will understand unless you truly expand that pool of knowledge.

LuggMay 19, 20172 votes

FW has done much better vs SKT than most international teams, so that wasn't a big surprise. GBM was so much fun to watch play for sure. However, no one really cares about second place when first is a done deal. That's the problem i'm addressing.

It's not a case of me being pessimistic, it's a case of realism.

GeminiRuneMay 19, 20172 votes

Then where's FW in anything that you are griping about? You're going on about how SKT is "ruining" League eSports, yet you know you saw the match and you darn well know that wasn't a performance to be proud of or even expect out of FW. Yet you seem to put FW on SKT level when they haven't even played a good tournament to begin with in the first place and then you play the series out as such, followed by proceeding to make a post about this, practically blowing up like Reddit has already done. Your reaction, your plead for change, that stuff is pessimistic and defeatist more than it is realism. If you want a better example of realism, go re-watch the post game analysis of that series.

LuggMay 20, 20171 votes

I think you are putting way too much stock into FW doing the best vs SKT. They have won probably like 15% of their games against SKT. That's hardly on their level.

EDIT: Upon further info, the win rate after MSI is around 40%. My bad.

GeminiRuneMay 20, 20172 votes

Then why are you acting like they were on their level? The better team on paper, on expectation, and on the current stage performance won. So what brings out the need to make a thread post like this as a reaction to such?

LuggMay 20, 20171 votes

Because FW being able to do well vs SKT is pretty much a freak occurrence. They really do play up or down to whoever they are facing. Against top teams they look great, vs bad teams they don't look good at all most of the time.

The point my thread is trying to make is that parity is a good thing. It's a good thing when several teams from different areas have an actual shot at winning it all.

MysterQMay 21, 20171 votes

What about the Koreans? They probably like winning every year. But you just think of your perspective only.

LuggMay 21, 20171 votes

You are missing the big picture. If no other region has a reasonable chance of winning, they will drop the sport. Then the Koreans end up the biggest losers of all since there will no longer be a sport.

MysterQMay 21, 20171 votes

I am simply saying any "fix" should not be a complete neuter to Korean teams. I mean it would have to be a pretty big fix to neuter them, but that is basically what so many of these topics come down to.

MysterQMay 21, 20172 votes

This point is fair enough and valid.

LunieMay 21, 20174 votes

Git gud rest of the world

leOswalitoMay 30, 20171 votes

Git Gud or Git Git

NahuiMay 21, 20173 votes

The other teams don't practice enough, simple as that. It's perfectly fair. SKT puts in the most time and training, both quantity and quality, so they win. It's also the difference between KR and the rest of the world. Video games are a culture there, not a hobby/past time. It's ingrained in the very fiber of society and are part of their cultural values. Unless EU/NA teams or any other team really decides they want to treat the game like life and not like a game, they won't beat SKT. "Well it's a game, not life. The players in other regions have lives outside of League." That's great and admirable, and that's why second place is wide open for anyone else. 1st is reserved for those that actually want it.

LuggMay 21, 20171 votes

I totally agree with you on culture. But i'm pretty sure a lot of the pro teams put in comparable practice time with the Koreans.

NahuiMay 21, 20173 votes

It's not just about time, it's about quality of practice. It's also about the coaches. Koma, the coach for SKT, is just a god at what he does. He provides the resources and intel SKT needs to succeed. He carefully studies every team's gameplay, proficiency on champions, playstyles, and then takes that information and uses it to guide SKT's practice. The winner of the race isn't the guy who practiced the most, but who practiced the best.

I'd attribute it mainly to culture. We still frown at eSports here in the West. To most, the fact that the root word "Sports" is used with a sedentary activity is insulting and as such, our cultural values inhibit the players because subconsciously, they don't value the video game as much as in Korea. In China, there used to be a cafe that would offer discounts based on your League rank. In Korea, prestige in video games is comparable to prestige in sports here, where challengers honestly do receive more attention both media wise, relationship wise and sponsership wise.

If you're a challenger in NA, you're an amazing League player, might see tournament play and may make some money sponsoring things. In Korea, a challenger is much more prestigious and has more societal benefits, so the players strive harder to hit that rank. More people hitting the rank means it is harder to hit those ranks, since Challenger is reserved for X amount of slots. So what you've got is a spiral upwards of skill, where Korea must try harder to achieve the same "rank" as us in NA as they're competing against themselves. So while our challengers don't need to be as good to maintain their position, the Koreans must constantly improve and beat themselves which is why you see the difference in teams like SKT and TSM. Both heralded as gods in their regions, Bjergsen even being considered the NA Faker, but when you watch them compete internationally and especially against each other, the true difference in skill is exemplified.

LuggMay 21, 20171 votes

I definitely agree that Koma is a huge part of their success, but you can't deny that they also have the best talent. That's why SKT will continue to dominate League worldwide until something is done.

NahuiMay 21, 20172 votes

Absolutely, but you can't force apart talent. That's not honest sportsmanship. Competition isn't a game of buffs and nerfs to teams. They have their roster and they dominate with it. I know you're mainly referring to this year's SKT's death squad of Peanut, Huni, Faker, Bang and Wolf. But they've won year after year with varying rosters. Season 3's roster was wildly different than Season 5's. 5 was dominated by the Faker-Marin duo hyper carry strategy. Season 6 was dominated by Bang/Wolf's deadly synergy as well as many teams failing to take away Bang's Ezreal over and over, to the point where the casters themselves were in shock over it. This season we will have a hyper-aggressive Peanut propelling SKT's advantage forward.

They have lots of talent, but it's not a matter of "They draft the best players." They draft great players, their record allows them to, but it's the coaching and the dedication that takes all that individual talent and turns it into a hive mind. You'll hear that term often, hive mind, when referring to SKT. They move as a unit. They flow together like a big wave perfectly. They don't interfere with each other in game, and they thread their skills in about perfect complement. They've achieved this hive mind consistently for so many years now (They had a minor blip with Duke early on in the Spring Split/early MSI with the awkward teleports and emotional play) and it's a thing achievable by any team. You can draft the best players, but it wont go anywhere unless they can work as one, and if you watch many NA teams, you'll see that it's often a thing they lack.

LuggMay 22, 20171 votes

I think a good correlation would be the Bill Russel Celtics who won like 11 straight championships. They had a great coach, organization, and 6 Hall of Fame players. They were basically unbeatable and the league ended up suffering for it greatly. Then look to the 80s when you had the Magic Lakers vs the Bird Celtics. You had even teams that really boosted the league to never before seen heights. Great competition makes a sport great, not one sided dynasties.

As for NA, TSM is a great example of an organization and coaches having the entirely wrong approach. TSM's goal every year is to win NA. SKT's goal every year is to win Worlds. This is why TSM always dominates NA, but teams like C9 and CLG have done better on the international stage than them.

NahuiMay 22, 20171 votes

I agree having even teams is more exciting for the ratings and the views, but in terms of the actual spirit of competition, it's a pit of skill against skill. The point of a competition is to prove your skill is the highest, not to impress the people watching. At least the spirit of competition. Actual competitions, yes, the point is to attract viewers and make money, but the actual spirit is about domination of skill, and that's what SKT reigns supreme over. Would it be better for eSports and League if somehow SKT was nerfed? Yes. Would it be fair and honest to true competition? No. They are the best, their only reward should be, well, just that, a reward and not "You've done too well, I'm sorry.."

LuggMay 22, 20171 votes

I would have zero problem with SKT winning IF the playing field was even. It isn't even close right now. They have more money and resources than pretty much any team out there.

NahuiMay 23, 20172 votes

It's not money and resources, it's simply the coach and how he brings the team together in a hive mind. He's done it with every single roster. Just remember that SKT wins because of superior skill and team cohesion, not because of $$.

panD3MONiumMay 21, 20173 votes

First off it is very dumb to say Esports is dying considering their numbers have been doing nothing but climb over the years. Especially when NA streams they get roughly 400,000+ viewers. Not sure what your idea of "dead" is but that is a lot in my book lol.

Second if you threw players off rosters and into the wild there is no telling if a team would pick them up. Not to mention if you force team to take players their pay would probably go down on teams that didn't want them and teams would struggling franchise themselves.

nGioMay 23, 20172 votes

NBA ratings are up, and the Cavs and Warriors are all-star teams who were projected to make the finals before the season even started. I personally don't watch people play video games, but the people who do like them aren't going to leave because someone has a dynasty rolling.