When Cloud9 forced Team SoloMid to surrender in the first week of the 2013 Summer Split, smiles beamed across every players’ face. You could hear the laughter as they collected themselves. And as they walked past the camera to shake their opponents’ hands, their good spirits would speak volumes of their eventual 25-3 season.
This was a team that -- true to their namesake -- got along, had fun, and won.
But when remembering the relaxed joy of Cloud9, the dejected faces and quiet demeanor of the players after losing to the LMS’ yoe Flash Wolves at IEM Katowice sticks out and paints a picture of the team’s problems this season.
Present Woes and Past Joys
Cloud9 opened their match against the yoe Flash Wolves like you’d come to expect from the team -- especially William “Meteos” Hartman. Farmed and even more fed, Meteos on Rek’Sai was able to pressure the entire map, earning an early map advantage and gold lead for his team.
The game looked all but in the bag for Cloud9 if they played their same strategic, map pressure oriented play that lead them to so much domestic success in their first two seasons.
But then Cloud9 started forcing uncoordinated team fights, and the Flash Wolves were able to react to Cloud9’s mistakes. They played around An “Balls” Le’s Mega Gnar, and they turned on Cloud9 after Hai “Hai” Lam’s less than stellar Lissandra engages.
When yoe Flash Wolves finally destroyed Cloud9’s Nexus, it appeared that the team wasn’t able to escape their recent domestic troubles, even on the international scene. Cloud 9’s dip in team fighting form looked as compromised as their decision making. They made uncharacteristic misplays, none worse than their decision making against the GE Tigers the day before.
Cloud9 -- if not known for their strategic shot calling -- was known for their impressive team fight coordination where one particular team fight could seal a victory for the team. In their first match against TSM in the 2013 Summer Split, it was one, decisive, late-game team fight engaged by Meteos and Hai that allowed Cloud9 to beat TSM in what was otherwise a fairly even game.
And in the last game of the 2013 Summer Split against TSM again, Cloud9’s coordination was even more deadly. By this time, Meteos’ farm-heavy playstyle was well-known. Throughout the split, he would amass insurmountable farm leads on his rival junglers, often times nearly as farmed as the solo laners. In that final TSM match, Meteos was able to snowball his large farm lead over Brian “TheOddOne” Wylie on the back of one good engage.
But at IEM, they botched plays they would’ve executed flawlessly in the past. Against the GE Tigers and Yoe Flash Wolves that team fight prowess disappeared. Altogether, Cloud9 was a shell of their former coordinated selves.
A New Hope on Patch 5.6
With the changes in Patch 5.6 to tank junglers and the addition of the Cinderhulk enchant, it’s important to consider Cloud9’s bread and butter team composition as a potential solution to their current team woes.
If they weren’t known for the Ashe/Zyra bot lane, they were known for their team fighting composition in Zac, Kennen, and -- if all the stars aligned -- Rumble. Often, to avoid being run over by Cloud9’s superior team coordination, teams would only allow them two of the three.
With the meta shining favorably on Kennen and Rumble again, it’s possible Zac finds a place as well in Patch 5.6. With Rek’Sai and Nidalee receiving consistent bans, the jungle pool on 5.4 saw an increased priority on Vi, Lee Sin -- and for some LCS junglers, including Meteos -- Sejuani. So on a patch that buffs many of the old tank junglers, there’s reason to believe Meteos could try his hand at the tank junglers who excel in team fights, especially after Fnatic has found success with Zac in particular against ROCCAT in Week 8 of the European LCS.
“I think that the tank meta will help us because it opens up more initiation junglers that scale slightly better than early game junglers. We've had success in the past playing initiation junglers in the past such as zac so it should be a nice change of pace,” said Meteos.
He continued, “I think that Zac is in a much better spot now than before. His early game isn't as strong as some other champions but he scales well and he's really good in team fights. I think that the nerf that made his blobs fall really far away from himself when he's around other champions makes him a bit awkward to play but aside from that he's strong."
It’s been awhile since Meteos has taken up Zac, and the champion has seen better days. But it stands to fact that Meteos on Zac was simply unkillable, earning the highest KDA in the NA LCS in his rookie split.
At a time when skirmishes were tight and macro play was rare, Meteos’ farm-heavy playstyle on champions like Zac and Nasus contributed heavily to Cloud9’s wins. Often an entire item and level up on the enemy jungler, Meteos game plan was simple: farm, fight, and repeat.
With the Cinderhulk enchantment making that plan even easier, the Cloud9 jungler is presented with a chance to bring back the newly buffed Zac or any of the other tank junglers finding increased strength on patch 5.6, including Sejuani.
As a team, the tank jungler might be C9’s way to try and find their team fight groove again. Coordination is practiced and learned, of course. But when it was in such devastating form before, is it forgotten?
The Comfort Zone
In addition to Cloud9’s overall team issues this season, the players’ individual performances have been missing the precision and deft they were known for. The meta has looked unfavorably on Balls, whose play had already began to dip. Additionally, Hai’s form seems to have slipped behind that of rival mid-laners Soren “Bjergsen” Bjerg and Austin “Link” Shin.
Given that, would it have made a difference if Cloud9 was on their signature composition? Would it have made a difference if their repeated mistakes in diving GE Tigers’ Smeb were with Zac, the Season 3 tower diving king, instead of Jarvan or Elise?
The answer is an honest no -- not against one of the best teams in the world.
But there were moments when it all came together, and you could see what Cloud9 was going for with their team composition against the GE Tigers. There were moments when Cloud9’s ability to unabashedly commit shined through.
Despite what appears to be a medley of performance problems, there is something to be said about a team’s comfort zone. And if the meta is shifting back to a time when Cloud9 found so much success, the search for that same unflinching joy they had throughout their first split is a possibility.
With Patch 5.6, the dawn of the tank meta could be a chance worth taking for the team to find that old cloud nine.
No they actually have several months to do so. If they place first in summer it doesn't matter how bad they did in spring provided they don't get relegated.
Not going to comment on how likely that is... but as long as they stay IN the LCS, if they return to past form they can still make worlds finals.
Are you implying that Meteos was the best player on their team? Or that the rest of them have declined to the point of uselessness? They are in 3rd place. They got 2nd place last split. I guess its unfortunate this isn't professional baseball where one team can just buy all the best players and win every year? Why the hell do you want to see a LCS Dynasty? Dynasty's suck.
When C9 came to the LCS in 2013, the best mid lane champs were team fight oriented. That was pre Zed and Yasuo. Those two champs have fucked mid lane. Ori is gone, Karthus is mostly gone (I did see XaioWeiXaio kick ass with him a few weeks ago), Anivia gone, Syndra gone, any AoE mage, gone. Now it seems even Fizz is gone (even though he is an assassin anyway) with his recent changes. Ahri and Leblanc are the main AP casters because of their instant kill potential in their assassin kit. And if its not one of those 4 assassins (Yasuo, Zed, Ahri, Leblanc), its an Ezreal, Kogmaw or Corki (as in C9's last loss to T8 last week.)
C9 was good in the beginning because they could actually team fight as 5 in a way that made mathematical sense. Hai is a good Zed player, as good as anyone else. But that's not their team. Those assassins are split pushers who need to look for picks. The ADC mid laners let the enemy tanks itemize too well against double adc. Its better to try the 1-3-1 split in those cases. Again, not in C9's favor.
This is all a very long way of explaining why I still watch LCS but do not play LoL. Support meta is stupid. If Riot just let duo lanes share gold, all 5 players could have power spikes. They are so worried about making assassins "healthy" but assassins should not be able to kill supports as quickly as they can kill a carry, at least not unless the support has an equal ability to escape or kill the assassin first. Jana can do that. Leona can sometimes survive a 1v1 assassination attempt, but shes running away with 1/4 hp. Not cool.
They should also let Sightstone become a trinket item, because if there is anything worse than playing support in the early game, its playing support in the late game when you have 3k gold on you but are full on items slots with your 3 "real" items, a sightstone, boots (probably the ultra powerful MOBILITY BOOTS), oh and dont forget your talisman, face of the mountain, or frostqueen. Sightstone is the least stat effective item so its usually what I sell first. But then I can't ward so... so support is broken. I'm playing Infinite Crisis.
so.... what you're trying to say is QQ assassins QQ buff everyone so assassins can't do their job anymore QQ QQ QQ. the whole point of an assassin is to catch squishy targets mid rotation or out getting vision with no backup and totally annihilate them... If you buff squishies so that assassins can't 100% them like they need to be able to you're basically making them useless to a team comp and forcing the meta back to safer, more boring mid champion picks. In all honesty every team comp has its pros and its cons and people are just picking assassins mid because there's less team fighting in the current meta and its all about being able to pick or catch an enemy and kill them as quickly as possible so that if the fight rolls on into a team fight your team has a numbers advantage. Rarely do you see 5v5 team fights without an attempt at a pick or any sort of poke/harass before a team engages on the other. And its not Riot telling supports they cant get gold, it's the way the game is played, supports are supports not a damage threat. If supports take gold from cs or kills you're denying your adc or another roll with more damage threat time to have an advantage over their counter (i.e. delaying your adc's BF sword till after the enemy adc is already backed, bought, and returned to lane with their BF sword) using the same example it's much more beneficial for your adc to have BF sword before the enemy adc than to have your adc sit on pickaxe because the support took cs or a kill (possibly even first blood gold) and bought an early sight stone or maybe a 20ap tome or a doran's ring or w/e do you really think that 20ap or w/e is gonna make a bigger impact to winning the game than your adc getting an early advantage over the enemy adc so that he can bully them and deny them cs/exp because of his huge trade advantage over the enemy adc?
so.... what you're trying to say is QQ assassins QQ buff everyone so assassins can't do their job anymore QQ QQ QQ. the whole point of an assassin is to catch squishy targets mid rotation or out getting vision with no backup and totally annihilate them... If you buff squishies so that assassins can't 100% them like they need to be able to you're basically making them useless to a team comp
Riot themselves constantly talks about how hard it is to balance assassins. And I think it comes down to buffing supports. I never said to buff everyone. In fact, I said assassins *should *be able to one shot a lot of the carries. I don't mind assassins being in the game. Its not the assassin meta that bugs me. Its the support meta, which is: feed the gold to 4/5 champs thereby creating a situation in the mid to late game game where the support champs are completely reliant on their team to do simple things a support should be able to do: ward, clear wards, rotate lanes.
All they need to do is take the two main types of supports: tanks and casters and make them as powerful as the other laners. This could be through the removal of stat/item scaling on abilities for support champions. Instead, any champion that doesn't have item scaling in their abilities, should receive base and per level stat increases equal to the average power of other champions at the same level with items. Doing this would actually make support the strongest champion on the map at level 18 and not until the other champions reached full build would they become stronger than the supports.
This would also address something they talked about in the last episode of Patch Rundown: people having trouble closing out games. In a solo queue game, if each team knows their support is going to be the strongest champ (statistically) on the map from 18 - 30 minutes and supports are most effective in team fights and objective control, the flow of the game would shift that way. The problem now is the strongest champions are farm reliant and players that struggle to CS well early spend a lot of the mid game playing catchup, not taking objectives and ending the game.
This idea works, Thresh is the proof, but even he is not quite there. He has low scaling on his abilities and he collects souls that give him stat increases. I've seen Thresh's able to dominate games unlike any other support because he can become so hard to kill. A skilled Thresh player can manipulate a team fight and has the tankiness to consistently use his kit throughout a mid and late game fight. What I mean basically, is level 10 Thresh should have about the same power as the level 10 top laner or jungle or where ever the tank who gets to farm is. A level 10 Leona should be as powerful as a level 10 Shyvanna, etc. My support Annie should be able to kill the out of position Zed that just used his ult because my mid lane Annie would be able to.
There might come a sacrifice of role diversity for some champs, for instance Annie, Morgana, Nautilus, Velkoz, Alistar and a few others. But with 125 champs and counting, I don't think moving 10 or so more champs that don't get a lot of play in their original roles wouldn't be that bad.
Spot on with the fact that dynasty's suck. Even though yes I am a TSM fan I love that I actually have to worry during games. I love that TSM doesn't win every split and that even during the ones where they are winning the split clg and c9 are hot on their tails. It makes everything so much more interesting unlike say the afc east in football where the patriots haven't lost the afc east division in what... more than a decade? lol that sounds like a fun time....
Honestly, it's not that i want them to be the #1 team necessarily. I like that i can get to know the players and them not change rosters. I hope they continue to find success for another few splits before falling into the current meta of switch team members every half-split.
The issue is that Hai's performance affects the teams performance. Hai is the best shot caller in NA, but he cant focus on that if he is too far behind and put under a ton of pressure. That being said, Hai needs to expand his champion pool beyond the likes of he was good back when he could pick the likes of and but they have been hit way too hard.
Am I the only one that thinks it's weird the they keep referencing games from 2013? It's 2 years later now those results are outdated since every team started getting proper infrastructure
they keep referencing the past C9 success to the current C9 and when you look at them from then to now, you can see how much they've declined i do agree that 2 years is a bit long to be talking about but this is the same exact team from then, most teams don't hold a roaster like that
Yeah they are really out dated, but unless I'm completely just forgetting everything, 2014 wasn't nearly as favorable a jungle/meta for tank jungles. 2013 is probably the last time that really tanky jungles and support jungles were strong, so the comparison is more for the state of the game and what is strong rather than comparison of teams.
Basically, the starts are aligning to bring back some aspects of the meta where cloud 9 was dominant. Will they rise to be a consistently strong team again, or was their strength in that meta due to an infrastructure advantage over other teams? Find out, on the next episode of DBZ.....
balls has not been playing good. its not his champ pool but i think its his mind set going in to games but if hai doesnt expand his champ pool that will be it for C9 ban zed and its GG..
Ballz isn't as good because of the constant lane swaps and camps. Riot wanted to get rid of fast pushing like we saw in 2013 Worlds. So they decided to ruin the game and make lane swapping a cool thing to do. And now we have to watch 2 lanes with 3 players each and only one of them getting any farm. SO FUN
same could be said about dyrus but he always comes back later in the game after dying 2-4 times due to being camped early game. Balls is just overrated. He used to be a really solid top laner when he was never banned out or camped and now that he has obstacles in the early game it just shows how weak of a top laner he really is. Not to mention if he's not playing Rumble he struggles to be any sort of threat. His best champ this split so far is maokai and he can't carry the game on a tank. His rumble games are hit or miss, his kennen is overall garbage and non threatening and I honestly can't remember what else he has played. Maybe Lissandra once or twice? his champion pool is smaller than hai's imo and hai gets way more flak for it even though he's got way more skill than balls. If Lemon or Meteos handled atleast some shotcalling Hai would be able to focus way more on himself but Balls has no excuse. He's on an island, fails for fend for himself, and the only thing he has to pay attention to outside his lane is for teleport plays which im sure just get called out for him by Hai
same could be said about dyrus but he always comes back later in the game after dying 2-4 times due to being camped early game. Balls is just overrated. He used to be a really solid top laner when he was never banned out or camped and now that he has obstacles in the early game it just shows how weak of a top laner he really is. Not to mention if he's not playing Rumble he struggles to be any sort of threat. His best champ this split so far is maokai and he can't carry the game on a tank. His rumble games are hit or miss, his kennen is overall garbage and non threatening and I honestly can't remember what else he has played. Maybe Lissandra once or twice? his champion pool is smaller than hai's imo and hai gets way more flak for it even though he's got way more skill than balls. If Lemon or Meteos handled atleast some shotcalling Hai would be able to focus way more on himself but Balls has no excuse. He's on an island, fails for fend for himself, and the only thing he has to pay attention to outside his lane is for teleport plays which im sure just get called out for him by Hai
Dyrus does not always come back later. That's why hes been playing Lulu so much. He needs someone that can be effective on minimal farm. There aren't many champs like Lulu out there (top lane karma?). Its just the problem with top lane right now. But the strategy isn't that effective. For as often as Dyrus and Balls get camped, TSM and C9 finished #1 & #2. Its just a desperate attempt by the lesser skilled teams. They have to try and snowball because they can't win a close game. It doesn't happen in Korea nearly as often. If they are going to gank, its going to be a coordinated, timed 3 or 4 man kill squad that will get a kill and a tower and make it back to their respective lanes before their wave reaches the turret.
I honestly believe that C9 hasn't lost their form. Despite the fact that the 5.4 and 5.5 patch hit them hard, they were able to overcome the initial problems and do better as the LCS progressed. The same thing will happen after a new patch gets released during the LCS. While it may take a while for them to get used to the changes, they will be able to resolve their problems and win games like they did last season.
And also, because players are understanding how C9 play, it becomes harder for them to counterplay the teams they go against unless they become one step ahead in teamwork and individual play.
I honestly believe that C9 hasn't lost their form. Despite the fact that the 5.4 and 5.5 patch hit them hard, they were able to overcome the initial problems and do better as the LCS progressed. The same thing will happen after a new patch gets released during the LCS. While it may take a while for them to get used to the changes, they will be able to resolve their problems and win games like they did last season.
And also, because players are understanding how C9 play, it becomes harder for them to counterplay the teams they go against unless they become one step ahead in teamwork and individual play.
Yeah it seems like, this season more than the past, patch changes affect the LCS teams quite a bit. And C9 has tried to keep the same style of play, making little adjustments based on the patches. But the downfall is that teams have a few years worth of replays to watch. Whereas C9 had nothing to see on the other teams, since every single team in the LCS has a new roster this year. Back in 2013, they were the new team that no one had film on and they went 23 - 3. 2 years later, they already have double the losses after one split but still finished one game off 1st place.
Unfortunately I don't see C9 coming back very much. The individual skill from around the world has gotten so much better. While they have good coordination, their individual play has become very weak in comparison with the rest of the world.