I hope TSM learned a lot from MSI and will make changes

SinatraZ·5/11/2015, 12:51:25 PM·2 votes·1,068 views

Before going to MSI, they thought they could compete with any teams but the truth is they got stomped pretty hard. They gonna have to change their toplaner consisting of a meat shield. If you look at all the top teams right now, their top laner carry most of the time. I mean FNC, AHQ, EDG and SKT have a top laner who carry as hard as a mid or adc.

So TSM will have to change their strategy or get rid of Dyrus and/or Santorin. These 2 together just doesn't work.

14 Comments

Serevas5/11/2015, 1:18:31 PM2 votes

Just to throw out the conspiracy theory as food for thought. There's a very large camp of people who believe that TSM intentionally performed terribly at MSI. It's the last international showing before worlds, which everyone on TSM will tell you in a heartbeat is their main focus anyway. It allows them to underplay their abilities in an international competition, and make themselves seem like less of a threat than they are. It's actually a pretty clever tactic.

If you watched it, which it sounds like you did, you must have noticed that Lustboy as the most roamy support player in NA, didn't roam much at all, especially on a support literally designed to make you roam, there was basically no reason for him to sit top with WildTurtle, which the casters even mentioned several times. Bjergsen didn't play any playmaking champions, he didn't roam like he always does, he basically sat still and farmed all game, every game. For the North American MVP he had the lowest KDA of all mid laners except for the mid laner from Besiktas, he had a .8 KDA, it matched Dyrus who was the one getting camped all game every game for god's sake. It genuinely looked like they didn't try at all.

Now I know a bunch of people are just going to say TSM fanboy making excuses for the team, but seriously, they didn't win the NA spring split playing like bronze solo queue, which is what that looked like, believe me I know, I play in it. At any rate that's the conspiracy theory.

Shogunai5/11/2015, 1:52:45 PM1 votes

I don't blame TSM performance on Dyrus honestly. He played well for what he had to work with. The opposing team took advantage of that fact that he was left high an dry by his team. He got hit with 4v1, 3v1 on may occasions, an its rare for anyone to survive that. All of his first bloods he gave up resulted in a gank from the enemy jungler with Santorin afk farming or doing something non important. So the opponents played smart an focused on TSM key weakness. Santorin really needs to step it up an focus on his map awareness an because even in those 1v4 invades on Dyrus, Santorin didn't even push objectives. There were many key opportunities for taking towers uncontested. Not taking anything from Bjerg, but Dyrus is the best player on TSM overall, once they took him out TSM couldn't do anything but fall.

DAVVO5/11/2015, 1:58:38 PM1 votes

I Have to agree with this, I was there at MSI for the group stages and I didn't see the TSM that I know as a team. i think they made it either very evident that they are not the team that i thought they were or threw MSI completely for strategic reasons. I went to MSI honestly thinking TSM had a chance at winning, On another note i cant say i have ever seen Tsm under perform in big events such as this. In most cases they were outclassed by teams but this.... this was something totally different.

Sarutobi5/11/2015, 2:01:42 PM1 votes

I'll admit I'm a bit biased when it comes to TSM, or even esports in general. But I will say they games they played this MSI, was horrible. I highly doubt it was some "tactic". I guess we will have to wait till worlds to see if it actually pays off. But for me personally at this rate TSM doesn't deserve to win unless they step up there game!

Drunk Rummate5/11/2015, 2:42:07 PM1 votes

Christ people...

Dyrus didn't play well, but he was left completely alone. Most of the times he died were under turret to 3/4 man dives and there's literally nothing you can do about that as an individual player. It's a strategic choice that TSM makes to ignore Dyrus. EDG clearly took advantage of this. Their strategy was clearly better. That does not mean that Dyrus or Santorin suddenly "suck" now. It means they need to reevaluate their style of play, especially in the early game, so that they can't be taken advantage of so heavily.

Mat7itan5/11/2015, 2:47:18 PM1 votes

Dyrus is not the problem. Yeah he gives up a lot of kills because he is super aggressive, but he is kind of forced to. He never gets any help from anyone else on the team, and because of this he has to do everything he can just to keep up. That being said it would be really easy for TSM to secure early kills knowing that teams are going to focus on Dyrus. It would be pretty simple for Santorin to go top to counter the early gank on Dyrus and then go back mid to get Bjerg ahead instead of Santorin jut helping mid and bot.

As well TSM needs to get a bot lane that can win 2v2. Wildturtle and especially lustboy are really good, but they can't win 2v2 lanes whcich means that TSM wants to lane swap which puts Dyrus in an even more difficult (he plays really well in lane swaps for the most part) situation because he is essentially forced into a 3v1.

They don't need to switch up there roster. They need to change their mid and bot lane focus so that it is not so easy to counter.

Also Bjerg needs to stop playing Cho and start playing play making champs again. His best performances have been on champions that he can get solo kills or an early lead on and then use that lead to make plays late game.

Metikulus5/11/2015, 6:46:50 PM1 votes

I think their main problem at MSI, was that they were trying to find a way to play around the foreign styles instead of just playing like they always do. Fnatic proved that it can work. They didn't try to do anything differently just because they were playing a Korean team. It proved that the Koreans were just as inexperienced at dealing with the western playstyles as we are at dealing with theirs.

Fairtrade Milk5/12/2015, 8:55:25 AM1 votes

TSM had the wrong strategy against the best teams from the world,

Bjergsen can carry games, but if the enemy mid laner is equal he has a problem and get fed from the weakest point of the enemy works in SoloQue and works in LCS.

Eleshakai5/12/2015, 1:52:22 PM1 votes

TSM didn't look like TSM.

I won't try to claim I understand why... but they didn't look like themselves.

That isn't to say that if they HAD looked like themselves they would've won or anything - we'll really never know... but those games looked like another team not them.

I'm not even a fan of TSM and I can see how uncharacteristic those games looked.