Echo Fox: An Undeserved Tragedy

[{quoted}](name=E Man forever,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=AzEX3M4w,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-01T22:32:24.840+0000)

What have I done.

https://media.tenor.com/images/276eb7185f4f8a167cd1be58f6a1ff53/tenor.gif

I mean, I posted this knowing that opinions would be split. So

[sg-zephyr]

It's fine. :) These are the kind of issues the community does indeed need to discuss.

And behavior like Raizada's trickles down, in my opinion. It directly relates to League's ongoing problems with chat toxicity. Raizada's behavior is not so very different from that of many of our most problematic moderation cases - only he's doing it in a boardroom and not on the Boards or in-game servers.

I'm glad Riot intervened.

But I will miss EF as well, and Rick's huge smiles after an Echo Fox win.

I think some of the problem has to do with the fact that shareholders own a portion of the company itself.

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I mean I actually don't get how they can't expunge the shareholder, don't they hold the rights(I'm actually asking)?

Well being shareholder basically means you own part of the company through owning the shares/stocks. So expunging shareholder basically means they need to sell their shares and it might be hard(and maybe even impossible) to force them in doing that.

its a forced buy out.

Generally speaking a shareholder cannot dump 100% of their shares without being approved first by a board of trustee's.

In this case, Riot basically told the Company that they need to buyout this share holder or face other consequences. So for them to buyout the shares they have to first determine how much the shares are worth and then there can be negotiations/ of what a fair price would be but also coming up with a large sum of money all at once is more than likely the problem.

If this investor owns lets say 30% of EF and it's decided that the Brand of EF is worth 30 Million Dollars then they (board members / share holders) would have to give around 9 Million to this guy to buy out his shares. Of course there are all sorts of ways to do that and all sorts of other things that maybe needed as compensation.

So because they couldn't buyout the guy now they all have to sell and that means since they are forced to do so it more than likely means they will all take a major loss since the idea of buying low and selling high is all about timing and supply and demand. Basically anyone with the check book can come in now and offer these guys a lot less than the brand is worth and remember that 30mil number i used? that's the price/value you would use to say EF at it's max number, there can be litigation about that though when it comes to a buyout but now since they are basically having a Fire Sale that means someone could possibly come in and scoop that up for a lot less, like if someone offers 19mil, EF would be compelled to actually consider that offer even though the brand is technically worth 30 mil.

I'm not sure who will get it but at the end of the Day Riot will still have the final say in who comes into the league.

Oh i saw something that is interesting, so the League of Legends Team sold for 30mil but that doesn't mean the Brand overall is worth just that; so when you talkl about buying out this guys shares it more than likely was a lot more than 9mil to buy him out because he wasn't just invested in League but the entire team of EF so his shares are worth more than the 9mil; it would be hypothetically a lot more but since I don't know how much the Brand is worth I'll just say that to buy that guy out would've prolly be a ridiculous amount since he was involved in the entire team and not just league; i'll say it could be possible it would've been around 15-25mil to actually buy these shares from this guy since he is a investor in the overall brand and when you look at a number like that and then the overall number the EF League division is worth it kinda wouldn't make a lot of sense to buy him out considering the league team is worth 30mil (which could be undervalued since it's a forced sale) but even if we say it was worth 40mil hypothetically that is still not really worth when you look at it; you'd be essentially buying another League team just to buy 1 person(s) shares.

Difficult situation, but interesting business decisions from Riot and EF overall. Also this sets a pretty serious precedence overall, Riot don't play I mean this is something that probably could be talked about in one of those CNN Money / Investment Shows since the last time something like this happened (that I remember) revolved around the former LA Clippers owner who (similar to this Situation) the NBA forced him to sell out to someone else and it was a pretty big story for awhile.

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An uninformed and shallow opinion.

First, anyone with knowledge of the NFL knew that the Rams were not being supported by either a fanbase or government in St. Louis. The city wouldn't help enough with tax cuts or contributing to a new stadium that was needed. The fans didn't care about the Rams, more fans of baseball in that city. So Kroenke made the leap to LA and it's been a huge splash for them that is great for the franchise brand. (Furthermore, Riot still has to approve this. They could potentially screw EF over, deny this deal, and just take a low-ball franchise buy in, which means EF only gets a small cut of that and not their over-inflated 30million deal.)

Second, screw Rick Fox. If he really had a dream, it's either a pretty weak dream or a pretty weak will if he's letting a minority owner saying some mean things chase him away. Related to that, how stupid can you be to not background check potential investors? Amit Raizada has been involved in at least a couple harassment cases before this. Why take money from a volitile individual and let him own a slice of what you helped create? Finally, screw this dude for feeling like mean words should be a crime. Grow some skin and balls, speech is free in America and you should know that by now. If you want censorship, go back to Canada. Finally, this whole staredown started because of his weak willed memo announcing him quitting. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaked it himself.

Third, blame Riot for sticking their noses into an internal team matter with the nuclear threat of canceling their license, especially since over the last year all the toxic stories coming out of Riot show just how bad their own leadership is. This is a stupid situation Riot made so much worse.

The ones to pity are the players. Their season is basically dead and their contracts are ticking down. They could be cut if the Kroenke deal goes through, or be without a team if Riot denies it.

Freedom of speech applies to the government, not private entities. Secondly, Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. You won't go to jail for saying racist things, but corporations don't have to do business with you. And nobody is going to do business with someone that gives them a poor image. Riot had every right and every responsibility to step in. Donald Sterling was forced to sell the clippers because of his outburst. The NALCS, like the NBA, did the right thing. Either he's gone from EF ownership or EF must sell their spot. They elected to sell their spot. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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Second, screw Rick Fox. If he really had a dream, it's either a pretty weak dream or a pretty weak will if he's letting a minority owner saying some mean things chase him away. Related to that, how stupid can you be to not background check potential investors? Amit Raizada has been involved in at least a couple harassment cases before this. Why take money from a volitile [sic] individual and let him own a slice of what you helped create? Finally, screw this dude for feeling like mean words should be a crime. Grow some skin and balls, speech is free in America and you should know that by now. If you want censorship, go back to Canada. Finally, this whole staredown started because of his weak willed memo announcing him quitting. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaked it himself.

This is a bad take.

First off, the First Amendment does not protect threats as a general rule; when Raizada said he would "f___ [Rick Fox's] family" in correspondence that arguably counted as official Echo Fox e-mail, that went past a number of lines. It may be protected free speech under the Constitution - most speech is, and you need a lot to actually be in violation of the laws involving threats and/or libel - but those laws do exist, and such words are evidence of a dangerous personality. No good person threatens to go after someone else's family in a business dispute; that's mobster behavior. And as something like cause for dismissal from an organization, private organizations are absolutely indeed justified in citing these things as evidence of mental unfitness for a position of high power, wealth, and responsibility. There is indeed a point past which it's really not okay morally or legally to just run your mouth off, even in America - it takes a lot to get there - but in my many years of experience moderating boards and judging these issues, Raizada is right on the edge of that line, or even over it.

Second, Rick, for better or worse, has put a lot of heart and soul (and money) into the Echo Fox project over a number of years and really tried to prioritize being a hero for his players and their fans and to give eSports as much credibility as he could via his own long career in the NBA. The image that comes to mind is of his wall-to-wall smiles when hugging his players after their victories. You can love the man or hate him, but I believe he really has tried to be a positive force in this industry and a role model for the kids, and in this case it seems no good deed has gone unpunished.

Third, Raizada's been accused by Rick of self-dealing - a longstanding and well-known kind of business law abuse. It's hard to know what has actually gone on without more details, but it basically would involve Raizada sabotaging his own organization in order to get frustrated partners ignorant of the sabotage to sell him interests in the organization more cheaply. That would certainly explain a lot about Echo Fox's recent performance and overall downfall if true - these allegations need to be investigated, and if Raizada is genuinely found guilty of self-dealing he needs a lifetime ban from League, in my eyes.

The good karma Rick tried to put into this project may be destroyed, but these scandals happen in sports - there are echoes of Donald Sterling and the Clippers.

What matters is how we respond to it.

There is indeed a point at which "mean words" actually do become a crime - yes, even in America. And there is a point far before that where mean words are not legally a crime, but absolutely aren't okay on League of Legends servers or in League of Legends boardrooms under current Riot policy. When you send racist e-mails with threatening language against someone's family, that's way past the pale, possibly even on both counts.

Stop being jerks. Seriously. This game has so many problems with former players who don't want to play anymore because a lot of our current players are behaving in brutally and cruelly toxic ways.

I say "GLHF" in lobby sometimes - and people actually take offense because their social skills are so poor and they'd rather not have to talk to anybody, and so they start slurring and getting ready to run it down mid.

League's bullying/antisocial behavior problems are getting very, very bad and it's hurting the game in a lot of ways.

If your only intent in your alleged activism regarding free speech is to protect this "I do what I want, I can say any lousy thing I feel like at any time for any reason" attitude that is wrecking vast great sections of the game right now, my feeling is that you are doing it very wrong.

"No shirt, no shoes, no service" is a thing in business too.