European strength

Kings Avatar·2/24/2017, 6:08:37 AM·1 votes·1,330 views

first i want to say that this isnt a whoever>whoever, but for real the strength of eu is abysmal. the fact that the 8th place lck team is looking like a possible finalist of iem is pathetic. arguably the top 3 teams from eu are playing and they are only competitive with THE 8TH PLACE LCK TEAM eu has no hope of doing anything this year internationally. i want a lot of lck because the skill seems so much higher then na and eu but my god after watching iem eu might as well be classified as a wildcard region because they dont show any actual strength. i fear for msi when the tournament is held to seed teams at worlds and eu is actually a wildcard team. i would love to hear some peoples thoughts on eu having hope cause as 1 of the major regions this isnt looking good for league.

16 Comments

GeminiRune2/24/2017, 2:12:57 PM4 votes

There's a bit of weight to what factors you state as to why it looks so shaky out of the teams so far. I wouldn't even go as far as to say the strength of EU is abysmal. If you're trying to compare a region to that of any other region, namely Korea, then you're potentially already shooting yourself in the foot because you produce these "overrated" and "underrated" titles and formulate these unrealistic expectations from time to time. Simply put, if we're just trying to use the particular two teams that faced LCK teams in best of 3 series, I just genuinely believe they didn't do any kind of or as much deep analysis on them given their placement in the standings. But we learned last Worlds to never take competition as that of a pushover. There's focusing on success but first there needs to be an idea as to what you'll be up against. Plain and simple.

I'll just start with the main point in the topic: An 8th place and 10th place LCK team looked better than expected. Any and every other social media facet has already pretty much turned a vast pool of users into these bandwagon bullies as this is such a big deal, just like any other major gap match involving an upset in regards to a Korean, Korean team, or star player. We've seen this before particularly at IEM 2 years ago: ESC Ever vs TSM (the opening game at least), Team WE's entire Katowice run...and they were 11th domestically. But we brush off the latter one because of whatever reason. This time we see "1st EU nearly lost to 10th KR" or "Top 3/4 EU lost to 8th KR." As much as I dislike when people decide to just burn facts with no substance, these may be facts but it feels like a glass half empty justification.

Note this is ROX and Kongdoo. Coming into the tournament they've been pretty much the beaten and battered by the rest of the top of the LCK league with few hiccups of statement performances at points in game or by wins. There aren't many crucial data points to take off of that if you're a top team, especially in the case of G2 and H2K. But regardless, you need to show any team even that of proper respect and preparation; that likely comes from that of the coaches and analysts side to prepare for.

On the EU teams though, G2 has shown time and time again that they are uneasy when facing unfamiliar competition. At this point, it's almost Lyon Gaming esque (definitively dominated their region; lost often horribly where it mattered at IWCI/IWCQ although close at IWCQ last year). The loss to FW was nothing that shouldn't have been off the table but the degree in which they did is the astonishing thing. I'll get to that momentarily. The 2-1 result to Kongdoo was a line of disrespect caused by their own momentum. Things didn't have to happen but they did. G2 played this "take the challenge" standard and almost lost the entire series for it; in fact made it closer than it should have been. They didn't play by this "ain't broke, don't fix" manner but with 10 bans and 2 phases that style is almost to the discretion of the enemy team. Producing confidence first in your own team play in response to what your opponent can play is one component to what makes strong teams actually strong.

The case for H2K is different however. Theirs involved what has plagued their team since the start of the split and was effectively exposed by ROX in particular (and somewhat by HKE for that matter): that thing is their synergy. It goes back to the topic on data points; you're this lower table team and you see H2K at the top half of the standings. You can see where they're strong and where not clearer than you could if they were at the bottom. At the bottom on equal footing it just becomes a match of who plays better on the day. And simply put, upsets happen as a result.

UOL is potentially the most solid team at the tournament so far among the EU teams, playing their composition to its strengths (and safely) vs Kongdoo and holding their own vs Flash Wolves despite the 2-0 loss. Not much to discredit against UOL aside from where they were strong and where they weren't (ie: Xerxe). But this is where I get to that of the FW, where for some reason, I barely see a hint of respect for FW as a team prior to this tournament and all of a sudden it's like "Oh right. This team does exist, has these players, and is still undefeated in their region." If that's a definition of underrating, I don't know what is. Both teams made changes, one sooner than the other which potentially tipped the outcome back then. This was just a matter of the better team winning but the losing team not getting absolutely rolled over.

Of the 3 EU teams, UOL gets a slip past my criticism even if they lose to G2 (might I add they face ROX in semis). It's the other two who have been to that Worlds stage that disappoint me. But this doesn't make me even come close to classifying the region as anything of a wildcard; that'd be a major insult at this point, especially if you don't watch the LPL this season so far. Domestically, this is the only region where there's already a clear idea as to where the teams fall on the tier ladder from top to bottom; LMS and LCK can almost identify that once the middle of the table becomes clearer. But should this be an idea of EU's overall strength? Yes. Should this tournament be regarded for any future expectations? No - hasn't been that way for previous years. TSM vs WE - clean sweep and yet outright brushed under a rug just because of the whole "no Korean team" thing and weight of opponent. SKT vs FNC; same result - brushed under a rug only this time people will bring it up because of Korean team involvement/it was SKT. What happens if ROX makes it to the finals...and loses? We'll brush that under a rug too? Point is I don't see this tournament as much of the same even if no European team comes out on top. The backlash however will be abundant regardless but when is it not if it doesn't involve NA, EU, Uzi, EDG, or KR talent, once again underrating any of TW?

Ale non è male2/24/2017, 3:34:40 PM2 votes

NA couldn't even beat the number 10 LCK team, nor the team that beat that same number 10 team (IEM Oakland and Gyeonggi results). But you know, somehow, someway, some NA fanboy feel the need to shittalk EU Pathetic

Earl Eulrich2/24/2017, 1:19:47 PM1 votes

oh well, sadly that is g2s best international performance so far...so it kinda had to be expected they again don´t really show up.

Unicorns and H2K played rather well i´d say and I think they will really profit a lot from the experience...i mean the goal for those teams really hasn´t be to win it all in spring, but rather to just come together and improve consistently.

For me personally though i´m really happy to see FlashWolves play at a way higher level than anticipated. They are just always the most underrated team in international competition for some reason.

And I think it´s really bad for NA no team made it...because those reality checks are really important for a region to see that although a team like g2 might look dominant in EU it still has to put in lots of work if they don´t want to get slaughtered again at MSI or even Worlds instead of resting confidently on their dormant performance.

III BAKURYU III 2/24/2017, 8:33:34 AM1 votes

" the fact that the 8th place LCK team is looking like a possible finalist of IEM is pathetic".

  • Ouch, but I understand what you're saying tho. Rox Tigers won't win any World Championships anytime soon; not in my mind, but they're still a LCK team and should always be higher than any team NA or Eu teams that's for sure.

" EU might as well be classified as a wildcard region"

  • Is EU bad ? Yes and No. Yes, because the teams are really separated by the weird conference of 5 teams - So the competition is separated between fighting two really bad teams in Group A for G2 ( Giants and Roccat who haven't looked good for about 4 years now) as well as teams are just too new with talent or lack off. Eu doesn't have much talent right now mainly because the teams are too new with roster changes etc, but give or take by Summer split the teams should be much better; looking at you H2K, Splyce, Unicorns.

    The meta could change and most likely will and I do see EU becoming strong again similar to 2015 maybe not as strong due to the fact that EU goes something like this. The Forget about teams! ( Origen, Giants, Roccat, Vitality ) Origen - Forget about them, period. Xpeke had time to gather up players for his team but got 5 D- players I don't expect him to shelf all of OG for 5 new players or whats the point in having another fresh 5 to only have the same outcome.

Giants - Can't recall any names on this team that's how bad they are. Roccat - Look at Betsy whenever he or one of his teammates die, it goes something like " I'm tilted so hard, we lost gg" He came into LCS back in 2015 I believe with Gambit and looked good but now he's pretty much EU Link as far as I'm concerned. Vitality - False hope team. They have the players, talent but they don't work as a team. It's like the Lakers when they had Dwight they have the stars but not on the same page with each other and it's been like this for 2 years now.

These four teams are the reason why EU isn't as good as it once was in both competition and game views( what I mean "game views" is the teams don't have a reason to make fans watch them, they suck, their games are snowballed, they're boring.

G2 ESPORTS Expect is late to every fight in the games that I'v seen as well as playing hard carries but not carrying. He plays very passive on carry champions but also does so on tanks when he needs to engage for his team. Trick is good but I feel like he tries to make the play work too often, leading him and Zven/Mithy to die in bad ganks of his too often. Perkz a young stud that needs to grow as he has potential he is still young but the problem is he acts like a child too. When I saw his streams I thought " wow he acts childish too often especially for a pro player" then once I saw Zven's stream about 2-4 weeks before worlds 2016 how often he would die, look around G2's room and laugh every timem I knew it was the Perkz syndrome and it infected Sven too as well as the whole G2 team.

UNICORNS OF LOVE Predicting them to be the 3rd EU team for Worlds. It's becoming Curse 2.0 with them where they're always in the mix of things but don't ever show up especially since 2015 Spring where they seem to keep falling ever since that split. They have great synergy and players but not as strong as far as talent than G2 but by 2017 Summer they will be the best team in EU.

H2K Underrated. Their bot lane is much stronger than what people give them credit for as well as Febiven who really shines in games when 1 lane is either even or ahead slightly. He isn't a super carry but he's very consistent in my mind. ODO and Jankos are the best Top and jungle as well in my opinion.

Nice topic and Thank you, have a good one !

Hayes2/25/2017, 7:00:35 PM1 votes

G2 eats everyone , UOL, and Misfits round out the top 3, but they are far behind. Not nearly as interesting as the LCS where 4 teams COULD win it. Even though I will say EU play is much cleaner and crisp.

GhostOfTsushima2/25/2017, 7:13:51 PM1 votes

dude your english is garbage

only thing I could understand from reading all that is

"EU is garbage"

G812/27/2017, 1:13:20 PM1 votes

All hail Flash Wolves!