Skip to content
Boards›Esports

IEM Katowice Power Rankings

Riot··1 votes·59,009 views

Welcome to the 2016 IEM Katowice edition of Power Rankings. It’s one of those magical times of the year when teams from around the world get together and duke it out on the international stage.

We have the pleasure of trying to predict how it will all end up. Nothing is set in stone -- international tournaments have shown us this time and time again. As most of the teams playing at IEM are going through questionable spells of form, the results are anyone's guess. Though if we had to give it a shot, it would probably look something like this...

IEM Katowice Power Rankings

Note: Due to different regions playing in different formats, each team is followed with their game win percentage, as opposed to match win results.

  • S Tier: SKTelecom T1 (57.14%)
  • A Tier: Counter Logic Gaming (71.43%)
  • B Tier: Royal Never Give Up (72.22%)
  • C Tier: ESC Ever (83.33%) | Qiao Gu Reapers (82.35%)
  • D Tier: Fnatic (57.14%) | Origen (50%) | TSM (57.14%)

[[{"fid":"22006","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/22647193771_6ed7911532_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DTxHIMqUx","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

S Tier: SKTelecom T1

If you’re coming into IEM Katowice expecting a World Championship performance from SKTelecom T1, now would be a good time to curb your expectations. The current SKT is a shell of the team that rampaged through the 2015 World Championship. Jungler Bengi seems to have reverted to his 2014 self and his substitute Blank isn’t much more inspiring. Top laner Duke oscillates between MaRin-esq lane pressure and aimless split pushing.

Despite all this SKT T1 are still the favorites to win IEM.

They have a significant advantage over other teams as far as their laners are concerned. Duke, Faker, and Bang are so far ahead of the competition at Katowice that standard lane assignments are essentially a non-option for their opponents. They have proven time and time again that you can never rule out the Faker factor when it comes to international competition.

So yes, you shouldn’t expect a World Championship performance from SKT T1. But that doesn't mean they won't come out at IEM and crush their opposition with the sheer talent they have in their lanes -- including the best player in the history of the game.

-- Written by Alex Manisier

[[{"fid":"22007","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/24695197054_3a8bf1404f_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DVmGBa84g","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"685","width":"992"}}]]

A Tier: Counter Logic Gaming

Well, I bet you didn't expect to see CLG alone in A tier. Yet, here they are, entering IEM Katowice as the most consistent team in the West. They've recently been on a fantastic run of form -- but if they want it to continue they're going to have to tackle the behemoth that is SKT in the Group Stage. 

While SKT has undoubtedly struggled so far this split, their talent pool dwarfs the competition. I bring this up because it accentuates why we can't put CLG in the same tier as SKT. CLG's greatest weakness comes from their rookies. Stixxay and Huhi have both shown potential to grow, but might not be ready to shine on the international stage. 

[[{"fid":"22008","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/24886634650_d799206ddd_k_1.jpg%3Fitok%3Dm-3q1Xgy","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"710","width":"992"}}]]

Ah, but this is a team game, and there probably isn't a team at Katowice that has shown better teamwork than CLG. The team's shot calling, macro play, rotations, and objective control are the reasons we rate CLG above the other six teams at Katowice. 

Darshan and Aphromoo are in incredible form and Xmithie's resurgence has given CLG another arrow in their quiver. Their first game vs. SKT will be tough, though the results will largely depend on how big Huhi and Stixxay show up to the tournament. If they want to beat SKT they'll need to have every single player on the team firing on all cylinders. 

-- Written by Carlos"h0tsawce" Bravo

[[{"fid":"22017","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/royal_never_give_up_0.jpg%3Fitok%3Da2_ZaQRq","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"659","width":"992"}}]]

B Tier: Royal Never Give Up 

Formally known as Star Horn Royal Club, the two time Worlds Finalists have surged again, representing their region on the international stage for the first time since 2014. No longer helmed by UZI, RNG run a 10 man roster with subs in every position. They will start the unlikely -- but potent -- assembly of Samsung White veterans, Mata and Looper, alongside young Chinese talent from King and Gamtee.

Their style is aggressive, relying on the tag-team of Mata and Chinese Jungler Mlxg to set deep forward vision in enemy territory as a point of skirmish. This deep vision not only provides RNG the necessary information to calculate all-ins, but -- more importantly -- act as a moveable objective for the team to challenge and assert their gold leads in collapsing fights.

RNG consistently beat LPL teams to the punch, picking lane dominant champions and pressuring their waves forward to keep their opponents locked down while Mlxg runs amok. It’s reminiscent of Samsung White, constantly moving vision to high impact points on the map with an emphasis on denial and smaller skirmishes rather than full-blown 5v5 scenarios.

The primary fault of RNG is in their uncurbed aggression. Their style, though oppressive to watch when executed, is unchanging despite circumstances. Whether 10K gold ahead or behind, RNG will never stop invading and have few practiced options to play from behind successfully.

Despite their most recent victory over The QG Reapers, RNG go into IEM as underdogs. With less experience on the current patch than the majority of teams attending, and no expectations of an international showing, RNG sit neatly in B Tier.

-- Written by Indiana "Froskurinn" Black

C Tier: ESC Ever | The Qiao Gu Reapers

[[{"fid":"22009","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/m12711563651.jpg%3Fitok%3D4JJMAgqX","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

ESC Ever

For much of 2015, ESC Ever were a regular Challenger team -- full of promising talent (especially mid laner Athena), but lacking any sort of real leadership or structure to help them break into Champions.

Things changed in September when Ever rebuilt, bringing in KT Rolster jungle sub Ares and a relatively unknown bot lane by the name of LokeN and Key. From that point onwards, they drew a lot of attention in the amateur scene as they rampaged their way to the KeSPA Cup.

But they didn’t stop there.

Coming in hot against top-tier KeSPA teams still sleepy from the postseason, Ever crushed Challengers and LCK veterans alike to qualify for IEM Cologne. Their teamplay was just as good as any top team, and they even had some star power in Key’s magnificent support play.

Against two incredibly hungry teams with little international experience in H2k and QG Reapers, Ever played with the brilliance of a top-level Korean team coupled with all the enthusiasm of a rookie team that hadn’t even qualified for the LCK. The Challenger team closed out the tournament with a 5-3 record, and stood above the best of China and Korea.

Still, Ever remain a giant question mark at IEM. They lost Athena to Edward Gaming, replacing him with a Solo Queue player named Tempt. Key is only just returning to competitive play after he voluntarily benched himself in preemptive penance for Elo boosting allegations.

Here’s what we can tell you about Ever -- right now, they’re an incomplete team. They’re still getting back into the swing of things, and at times feel lethargic. They haven’t developed their strategies much beyond ‘fight when Teleports are up’, and are still prone to drafting errors. If they can find some of their former fire then be prepared for an upset -- if not, they are looking like a solid C tier team.

-- Written by Alex Manisier

[[{"fid":"22016","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/qg_0.png%3Fitok%3D0_9NVTjM","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"558","width":"992"}}]]

The Qiao Gu Reapers

Coming off the success of their IEM Cologne appearance, QG entered the 2016 LPL season in a dominant fashion. While other top contenders EDG and LGD floundered (or sunk), QG went undefeated for four weeks. But despite their superior record to sister LPL representative RNG, it was Royal that would undo QG in a quick 2-0 blowout, sending the team into IEM Katowice with their first defeat.  

QG are hailed as the “Kings of Teamfighting” in the LPL, often carelessly throwing away early leads on the confidence of their 5v5 ability; which aptly describes how RNG were able to dismantle the team. Skirmishing early, QG ran headfirst into certain defeat by fighting off power-spikes and had their eagerness punished.

Where QG thrive will always be in the 5v5, and nothing short of a 10K gold lead can prepare teams for their synergy in tight corridors. Their use of target selection, flank coordination, and downright miracle mechanics make QG an extreme threat late game. That said, any macro proficient team will find ease beating QG around the map, and should use the Rift to amass global gold leads before taking on the reapers head-to-head.

Because of these obvious flaws and one-dimensional win conditions, QG sit firmly in C tier.

-- Written by Indiana "Froskurinn" Black

D Tier: Fnatic | Origen | TSM 

[[{"fid":"22010","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/24561243234_57238ebe18_k.jpg%3Fitok%3D1UH1Q9qT","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

Fnatic

It's hard to pinpoint the one exact weakness in Fnatic's lineup. The players are, for the most part, mechanically sound -- it's not like Febiven or Rekkles have become shadows of their former selves. But there's a reason why last year's Worlds Semifinalists are now rated so low. The magic that arguably propelled them through 2015 up and left them behind for the sunnier shores of Los Angeles and the NA LCS.

Gamsu and Spirit are no Huni or Reignover. They've done nothing so far to emulate or parallel the gung-ho of their predecessors. In particular, Spirit is the exact opposite of Reignover's supportive gank-heavy style. Fnatic's new jungler leads the EU LCS junglers in farm-per-minute averages, meaning he's focusing less on setting up his laners in favor of making himself more powerful.

[[{"fid":"22011","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/25005188189_c01e924d45_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DU6zmoFEa","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

That doesn't work so well for Febiven or Rekkles, who had gotten used to working with a margin of safety provided by tanky and disruptive frontliners. Now they are left to fight a third party for gold access. It makes for a team that's really good at crushing mistakes, as a single fight can send three different carries snowballing (as G2 found out firsthand). But, it makes for a highly uncoordinated early game that's easily exploited by more coordinated teams.

Take CLG for example -- half of what has made them so terrifying this Split has been Xmithie setting up Darshan's split push. His team sets up the environment for him to find those gaps to slip through.

So far, nothing like that has been found among Fnatic's five, which is why they're placed in the D tier. 

-- Written by James "Obscurica" Chen

[[{"fid":"22012","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/25165593716_535f8a1288_k.jpg%3Fitok%3Dj-TCm7ZM","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

Origen

Origen's fall from grace is inexplicable. Unlike Fnatic, they only made one major change to their roster, swapping out team captain xPeke for former Unicorns of Love ace PowerofEvil. On paper, it’s a move that should have worked just fine. PowerofEvil had been a major linchpin for UOL's dark horse success last season, and the aggression he brought to his prior team should have been complimentary to Origen’s lineup.

So far it hasn’t worked out. Without xPeke's leadership, Origen look like they’re running purely on instinct. Top laner sOAZ can go from a 1-8-1 camp-fest on Quinn to a devastatingly effective 8-0-9 dunking derby on the same champion. And though PowerofEvil might lack xPeke's intangible leadership capabilities, he's at least holding up his end of the damage -- which rather neatly explains the one strategic facet that Origen's got nailed down.

[[{"fid":"22013","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/25052045775_a7b0931d42_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DxLRyK9zJ","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"661","width":"992"}}]]

When it comes to team fighting and skirmishes around Dragon or Baron, Origen can put up a fight. It actually seems to be the only place where they can put up a fight -- exploiting moment-to-moment positioning mistakes by the enemy team. It's a tactic that's worked especially well with sOAZ on highly mobile carry top laners like Quinn and Fiora.

Relying on this, however, isn’t exactly suited to the international stage. Not that international teams don't make exploitable mistakes, but Origen's bag of tricks has too limited a scope. The team's lack of coordination will mean macro wizards will run laps around them. If they’re going to find an advantage internationally they’re going to need to to find the synergy that they’ve lacked this Split, and that's why they're in the D tier.

-- Written by James "Obscurica" Chen

[[{"fid":"22014","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/25207473482_55b89834a1_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DB4xkmTK6","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"669","width":"992"}}]]

TSM

TSM are coming into IEM Katowice at a low point in their current NA LCS split. While they boast one of the best rosters in the West, the team hasn't shown the synergy to live up to its sheer weight of talent.

While many of the teams entering IEM Katowice have shown struggles of their own, none have been as apparent TSM's. The team's macro play is its achilles heel. Their coordination has been poor, namely when it comes to objective control (an issue dating back to last season), lane swapping, and deciding when to fight or trade objectives. 

[[{"fid":"22015","view_mode":"centered","fields":{"format":"centered","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":"","field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":""},"tagName":"IMG","src":"http%3A//admin.prod.lolesports.com/s3/files/styles/centered/public/24348344919_a361ce2029_k.jpg%3Fitok%3DEke8C5Q3","type":"media","attributes":{"class":"media-element file-centered","height":"662","width":"992"}}]]

Nevertheless, it's not all bad news for TSM. They still do have an incredibly talented roster -- it's tough to think of a team at Katowice that has better individual talent position by position. Bjergsen is yet to play his renowned assassins, and with LeBlanc coming back into the meta, this could be a chance for him to shine. Doublelift still boasts a mechanical prowess many ADCs can only dream of. But, truth be told, if anything pulls them through IEM it will be Hauntzer's consistency. If he can continue to perform well and the rest of the team can rally together around him, there could be one hell of an upset on the way.

-- Written by Carlos"h0tsawce" Bravo

Which region do you think is the strongest, and who do you think will walk away as the winners of IEM Katowice? Tell us what you think on Twitter or in the comments below!

Photos courtesy of ESL and Inven.

163 Comments

Earl Eulrich31 votes

i really don´t know...this is heavily biased and probably diced out.

SKT currently isn´t even a favourite over either RNG or QG. It´s really just their name carrying them in those ranking, not their performance.

RNG has shown that QG can be beaten in pick&bans mostly, but even despite picking themselves in a grave QG still showed insane teamfighting in both games - and it is a team you can expect to fix their pick&ban phase fast. So this is really just a sort of panic reaction to them unexpectedly losing to a team that already has actually shown their strength throughout the season and had been led by a very strong mata in this series - a player that almost anyone agreed on being the strongest in the world during S4. Not having both of this teams in the same Tier above or evenly with SKT is just really beneath any objective standards to me.

and having CLG not 1, not 2 but 3 TIers above Fnatic, TSM and OG is just really ruidiculous. Sure, they had a more consistent season - but they neither have shown that they have any more potential than those three teams, nor did they show anything setting them apart internationally.

Ever also probably has to be the least likly team to come up big again, as they lost some crucial members during the spring and also donßt have their advantage of adapting really well and really fast to the new meta that carried them in the beginning of the split (not taking anything away from them here, they did an amazing job - but with less impactfull/frequent patches that strength unfortunatly diminishes).

so more realistic would be

A-Tier: SKT, RNG, QG B-Tier: CLG C-Tier: OG, TSM, Fnatic (though with the recent games i would almost argue to put Fnatic in the B-Tier) D-Tier: ESC Ever

Leeabøo3 votes

I'd have to agree this seems pretty far.

xMel2 votes

Logged in just to upvote this. The article that was written is so biased towards certain teams that it's not even funny.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

Ever only lost Athena who hasn't done much of anything since joining EDG. 4/5 of that line up will return for this event.

I don't think that either QG or RYL are that good becasue of their play domestically. I like a lot of people tried to buy into the hype around the LPL last year before worlds and look how good that turned out. I also wouldn't sleep on SKT just because they are middle of the pack in KR, the LCK is more stacked than IEM so them struggling domestically doesn't mean that will translate to international competition.

In 2014 people said the same thing about SKT before all-starts, only for them to show up and beat up on everyone like a drum.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

very different circumstances though - without the major patch before worlds Chinese team would have looked far better, also they don´t seem to have internal problems this time (at least not the ones attaining IEM, i still have no idea why EDG again tries out another mid when they looked so damn strong with their main rooster beforehand, some teams just try too hard to get that multi-rooster thing going, the only team right now that does it well is AHQ). also IEM is played on 6.3, so chinese teams aren´t suffering from their server adapting slower to new patches. RNG is a really makro-heavy team led by Mata...which some year back had been the genius leader of the best lol team that has existed so far, so there´s little room to doubt their performance. QG has shown again and again that they are among the very best teams in the world fighting 5v5 conistently for the last two years, they have a very solid makro to back it up and i´m rather certain they can fix the pick&ban issues they had vs RNG - both teams looked far stronger than SKT this season so far, and that´s not soly based on their opponents.

For Ever the loss of Athena is rather impactfull, as they relied a lot on him to enable the pressure around mid and as their main carry (LoKen is alright, but not as strong) - also they did not finish first in the Korean Challenger Series, which isn´t exactly what you´d expect from the team that did beat SKT with their world championship rooster stil intact.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Ever didn't have their roster in the Korean challenger scene that they did in kespa or IEM. And the new mid laner Tempt is supposed to be just as good as Athena. We will just have to see if the Chinese deliver this time.

Panman183 votes

Despite the LPL's disappointing world's performance last year, they still did better than NA, so it still doesn't make sense to rank a good NA team like CLG above the two best teams in the LPL. That being said, since this is the first major tournament in Spring, anything can happen. Hell, at last year's IEM Katowice, Team WE, the last place LPL team at the time, beat the GE Tigers who were undefeated in the LCK at the time, much like the same ROX tigers team right now. Then, TSM won it all. So any prediction we have now can easily be turned on its head.

SummonerSquid8 votes

SKT lost to Ever only a few months ago and that was even with Marin in the top lane. CLG over QG and RNG? At least put them in the same tier.

Jangbolsal4 votes

In 2014, SKT got eliminated in LCK quarterfinals and relegated to NLB. At the same time, they even failed to conquer NLB. However, they were undefeated in Paris All star 2014. SKT isn't performing like the 2015 worlds, but at that time they were overpowered compared to other teams with 17-1 record or sth . They still should be the primary candidate to win it all.

Leeabøo6 votes

I'd genuinely like to appeal to the author of this post. Granted it's written with the bias and/or opinion of the author, but QG being rated so low when they have the highest record and most consistent performance in China? Also at the Cologne event they went to semi-finals and took EVER to 5 full games. Considering EVER's circumstances (new mid, Key recently excused from ban?) to have QG rated beside them is rather insulting don't you think?

RNG does have a lesser record than QG but have performed almost as consistently as they have thus far in the LPL and lead their group just as QG did before the cross group match ups. I would like to contest, QG belongs with RNG in a group equivalent to or above CLG.

Similarly, since worlds SKT has been under performing more and more. Their current fluctuations in performance leave us to question which "SKT" will rear it's head at IEM Katowice. While we understand they are the reigning world champions, it's easily possible that QG or RNG topple them thoroughly at this coming event.

It's also so unfortunate FNC, OG, and TSM look as miserable as they do... Just wanted to voice a few things to consider. The descriptions regarding each team are rather on point regardless.

iluvsanwiches3 votes

America should never be ranked higher than Europe. As for the same reason why you put Korean SKT1 in its own God Tier while still only having a mediocre season. 'Nuff said.

Whall5 votes

NA > EU

DeathscytheDuo3 votes

IMT > NA .-. funny that the best NA team doesnt feature so much NA anyways...

Big Pness6 votes

more than half the players are NA tho

Steefness4 votes

If you based your assessment on ethnicity, then you have to accept that Asian players are more prevalent than any other ethnicity in the professional video gaming scene. 3 of the 5 Immortals starters are from NA, and all three of them are very good. Pobelter was one of the most underrated mid laners for a few splits, always stuck on bad teams, but now that he's got some great backup, he can really shine. Adrian has emerged as one of the best support players we've seen in a while, and he plays Janna (not an easy champ to play) so fluidly it's like he's actually her. Enough with the race baiting, every region is mining players from Korea and China, enjoy the show.

4rch4ngeI24 votes

I would argue that NA is having a better year than EU at the moment.

Leeabøo4 votes

I'd have to disagree as someone who watches EU & NA lcs. NA's top spot is NOT contested, whereas EU has literally 3 teams contesting the pole position (VIT, H2K, G2) and even UOL has been able to test those teams and maintain a standing just under the top 3. Granted IMT is leagues ahead of their NA counterparts, we've seen the 2nd-4th place teams (CLG, C9, TSM) simultaneously wreck teams they should have broken even with (amazing performances), and then get wrecked by teams they shouldn't have (Under performing, latest example being DIG trouncing TSM). The distinction I'm hoping to highlight is: In EU currently the teams are so talented that there is a legitimate fight for #1, whereas in NA our talent excluding IMT can be shifty dropping games where they should not. However in the case of IEM Katowice, the best of EU wont be present, and neither will the very best from NA.

Call Me Corleone8 votes

I can't say that comparison is 100% accurate.

The biggest distinction is that there is a HUGE skill gap between the top half of EU and the bottom half. Be it mechanics, synergy, lack of focus, or a combination of all 3, the discrepancy is rather apparent, such that barring major lapses in judgement, the bottom half of the bracket gives free wins to the top. OG and FNC, who are currently sitting at the middle of the boards, both have almost perfect records against teams sitting below them.

In NA, however, the skill gap between the top and bottom of the leader board is much smaller. With the exception of Immortals, who I would argue are seeing such success because there hasn't been such a dominant, team oriented top lane/jungle duo in NA in quite some time, the rest of the teams are fairly even. Even renegades, who have no cohesion, macro game, or shotcalling ability whatsoever, has given every team a run for their money, as have DIG,TIP, and NRG.

Leeabøo6 votes

I can dig it. That's also a fair assessment.

I feel as if we witness the same thing but perceive it like the alternate sides of a coin. I see these moments of lower tier NA teams beating their upper class counter parts as those above them being weak. I also see the EU talent split as the result of a few teams being that much ahead of their peers (like how IMT is ahead of the rest) except in EU they have 3 quasi-IMT's.

Again, you're point can still stand because we've utilizing the same information but reasoning the causes differently. I'm going to look into instances where low tier teams fought and won against higher ranked teams in both NA and EU.

Thank you for the convo! Gives me stuff to research and new perspectives! :3

Heatblazer4133 votes

C9 and CLG are consistent outside of C9's little experiment with bunny fufu. Those two teams along with immortals make for very consistent teams and their games are close. EU also seems to be faltering. H2K might be losing forg1ven and G2 are underperforming and making mistakes. I currently believe NA's top 3 teams are better than EU's top 3. The rest of the teams both in EU and NA are too unpredictable too really say anything about them.

Leeabøo3 votes

I can understand why you'd say that. I agree CLG and C9 are more consistent especially if we value their recent performances over their early season (as you said, for c9 especially). I am unsure whether or not I would comfortably place CLG & C9 as equals to H2K & VIT. G2 has looked sloppier as of late so I think thats a decent comparison, and UOL too is probably in the same realm as CLG and C9 with the exception of CLG and C9 being better at the team fight game.

Lugg3 votes

SKT a S tier team? That has to be the one of the most delusional thing I have ever read. SKT IS IN 5TH PLACE RIGHT NOW! Even with the pretty weak group of teams at IEM, SKT is probably just an A tier team at best. Whoever wrote the article has to be a huge Faker fanboy and is totally living in the past. Faker is still a great player, but he is definitely past his prime right now. SKT will probably be gone the moment they face either Chinese team or CLG.

Both Chinese teams should be S tier. They are both #1 in their divisions in the LPL. CLG is playing amazing right now and deserve the A tier ranking.

The rest of the field is pretty sad. ESC is basically a Challenger team and every other team is average for their regions.

Straw Hat Loki5 votes

{quoted}

SKT a S tier team? That has to be the one of the most delusional thing I have ever read. SKT IS IN 5TH PLACE RIGHT NOW! Even with the pretty weak group of teams at IEM, SKT is probably just an A tier team at best. Whoever wrote the article has to be a huge Faker fanboy and is totally living in the past. Faker is still a great player, but he is definitely past his prime right now. SKT will probably be gone the moment they face either Chinese team or CLG.

Both Chinese teams should be S tier. They are both #1 in their divisions in the LPL. CLG is playing amazing right now and deserve the A tier ranking.

The rest of the field is pretty sad. ESC is basically a Challenger team and every other team is average for their regions.

Faker is past his prime? I suggest you read up the stats on his current performance before saying that. Also, SKT can definitely lose to the LPL teams but CLG? We'll just wait and see I suppose.

LPL teams are going to have to look a lot better than EDG and LGD did just prior to Worlds 2015 in order to get a better ranking. LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up. A tier is pretty much where they sit at unless they come and blow others out of the water.

I am not sure if you are keeping up w/ ESC Ever in KR Challenger but they are doing just fine. This team won IEM just a while back and did great at the Kespa Cup as well. They are not underperforming after one roster change yet so no reason to believe they are not a good team still.

Lugg3 votes

I did look at the stats. The only stat where Faker is great is CS per min. Everything else is basically middle of the pack for mid laners. If he has the most gold income and can only put up average stats, he is definitely falling off. Don't get me wrong, he is still very capable of dominating games, but thinking he is still the best player in the world is a stretch now.

Worlds last year was pretty much a joke. Riot COMPLETELY changed the meta right before Worlds to dominate top laners which was Korea's biggest strength. The fix was in last year for Korea to win since Riot makes the most money there. If the meta had not changed, I guarantee that China would have won.

ESC is probably a good team that would qualify for pretty much any region. However, they are still a Challenger team.

Straw Hat Loki3 votes

It isn't simply his cs-ing. His DPM and DMG % are both 1st in the league (granted no. 1 in gold share of all mid laners). His kill participation is also at no. 1 atm. His cs differential and cs/min are in top 3 and when your team is sitting on almost a 55% win rate, I think that is very impressive. I don't jump into arguments about who is the best player in the world but to say he has fallen off is a stretch. He innovated a lot in the mid lane and others have been catching up but he himself isn't falling off; not in the slightest. I am pretty sure Riot did not shift the meta into one which would favor KR just so a KR team would win. That's just preposterous to even get into. Challenger team which won an IEM Cologne over QG (both teams did not go to Worlds and both had the same patch to work w/) and won Kespa (although Kespa was meh so I don't put much weight on it).

I posted this elsewhere by mistake, deleted that, and then re-posted here. Sorry about that.

Lugg2 votes

For mids in LCK, Faker is #6 in KDA, is #2 in Deathshare for team (which means he is the second worst in the entire region and dies way too much), #10 for getting First Blood, #6 in Gold Difference at 10 min, tied for #2 CSPM, #1 in Team Gold Share (which means SKT funnels more gold to him than any other mid), So for someone who there team is feeding harder than any other in the league, he is putting out pretty meh results. Yeah, he is still very good as per his Damage stats, but you can honestly argue that he might not even be top 3 in Korea anymore. If it's any consolation, I still think is probably the best player ever even if he is slipping some this year.

As for Worlds, why else would Riot change the entire meta right before the tourney? That has NEVER happened before and the Chinese teams were easily the dominate teams in the prior meta. That's pretty suspicious.

Straw Hat Loki2 votes

{quoted}

For mids in LCK, Faker is #6 in KDA, is #2 in Deathshare for team (which means he is the second worst in the entire region and dies way too much), #10 for getting First Blood, #6 in Gold Difference at 10 min, tied for #2 CSPM, #1 in Team Gold Share (which means SKT funnels more gold to him than any other mid), So for someone who there team is feeding harder than any other in the league, he is putting out pretty meh results. Yeah, he is still very good as per his Damage stats, but you can honestly argue that he might not even be top 3 in Korea anymore. If it's any consolation, I still think is probably the best player ever even if he is slipping some this year.

As for Worlds, why else would Riot change the entire meta right before the tourney? That has NEVER happened before and the Chinese teams were easily the dominate teams in the prior meta. That's pretty suspicious.

I think individual performance is better reflected by CS stats and GPM:DPM stats. When SKT is collectively losing as much as they are, you need to be careful and see into each stat.

SKT funnels more gold into him as well as he accrues leads as seen by his CSPM; that is def. in part responsible; also I don't think his results are meh as his DPM is nothing to scoff at. Last I checked his DPM and DMG% was the highest in the league along w/ Gold share - for mids.

Gold difference (not CS diff.) is misleading b/c team objective control plays a huge role in that. Same applies to FB given that Bengi is at the moment out of his comfort meta and performing worse than I have seen in a long time; FB rarely do not involve junglers in the current meta across the leagues atm. Also, SKT's FB is second to last in the league.

The only thing which is off is his deathshare which is rather huge and is reflected in his KDA. One possible explanation would be him doing what he did in S4 with trying to make the riskier and lower percentage plays and calls but that's a meh reasoning imo. Interesting things to note about his KDA: 2nd in kills (behind Kuro), tied for 6th in deaths, 1st in KP of any mid (besides the 1 and only game Scout played w/ 100% KP). So even his KDA isn't a justifiable stat in terms of saying he is slipping. He is individually performing while SKT as a team has slipped off i.e. he is not feeding.

His stats from last year spring were worse when it came to individual performance in the early half of the split and at least this year, his season is starting off at a better individual base.

Numbers: FB/CSD @10 Jensen: 5th/5th Bjergsen: 8th/1st

imo these are the two best mid laners in NA atm (you can def. have your own opinion on this) but looking at their FB stats would make you believe otherwise. Just a little example to illustrate that stats need a little something to go along w/ them wrt their context.

*stats are as of yesterday from oracleselixir

Jangbolsal2 votes

Nice to see u S5 BRONZE Lugg! Is it true you thought SKT was falling off last year and wasn't going to win worlds? You are rusty as hell http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lugg

Lugg2 votes

They wouldn't have won Worlds if Riot hadn't changed the meta right before the tourney to suit their strength of a dominant top lane. You and I both know it since you are once again forced to make personal attacks since you have nothing legit to bring to the table.

BTW, you are low elo just like me.

Panman184 votes

How do LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up? Sure they heavily underperformed at Worlds last year most likely due to the Juggernaut patch, but other than that they made it to the finals the two years before that losing to heavily favoured LCK teams. That seems to be the story for every major international LOL tournament except for MSI, so I would say that the LPL has a history of meeting expectations.

Straw Hat Loki2 votes

{quoted}

How do LPL teams have a history of choking and not showing up? Sure they heavily underperformed at Worlds last year most likely due to the Juggernaut patch, but other than that they made it to the finals the two years before that losing to heavily favoured LCK teams. That seems to be the story for every major international LOL tournament except for MSI, so I would say that the LPL has a history of meeting expectations.

By history, I meant their most recent international tournaments i.e. Worlds and the IEM following that; not the region's history since its inception. They were labelled as possible winners at Worlds yet their performance collectively was horrendous to put it mildly. Other than that, LPL has been a step above NA/EU and 3 steps behind LCK since S3 (I did not watch before S3). Last year, FNC and OG surpassed the top dogs of LPL and well this year, I think G2, H2K, Vitality, IMT are looking to live up to last year's OG and FNC at Worlds.

Panman181 votes

I see you conveniently left out the most recent IEM (cologne) where the LPL team made it to the finals, and both EU teams did not. I guess your definition of the history of the LPL is September 2015-November 2015. Also, since S3 there was something called MSI, where EDG beat SKT in a BO5, so I wouldn't say always 3 steps behind. My problem with your original comment was that your opinion on an entire region is based around a couple of tournaments. Just like the same idiots who believed EU was the worst region after worlds 2014, when all EU teams failed to qualify and ALL lost to Kabum. The truth is single tournament performances are largely decided by the meta. That's why at worlds 2015, when the juggernaut patch changed the game into a carry top lane meta, teams like Fnatic (huni), Origen(soaz), SKT (Marin), and KOO (smeb) excelled, and teams like TSM (Dyrus), and the LPL teams who had heavy Adc, mid, Jung carries floudered

Straw Hat Loki2 votes

{quoted}

I see you conveniently left out the most recent IEM (cologne) where the LPL team made it to the finals, and both EU teams did not. I guess your definition of the history of the LPL is September 2015-November 2015. Also, since S3 there was something called MSI, where EDG beat SKT in a BO5, so I wouldn't say always 3 steps behind. My problem with your original comment was that your opinion on an entire region is based around a couple of tournaments. Just like the same idiots who believed EU was the worst region after worlds 2014, when all EU teams failed to qualify and ALL lost to Kabum. The truth is single tournament performances are largely decided by the meta. That's why at worlds 2015, when the juggernaut patch changed the game into a carry top lane meta, teams like Fnatic (huni), Origen(soaz), SKT (Marin), and KOO (smeb) excelled, and teams like TSM (Dyrus), and the LPL teams who had heavy Adc, mid, Jung carries floudered

There is no reason to get upset and start firing comparison to idiots. The EU comment has nothing to do w/ what I wrote. Teams rise and fall w/ the meta shifts. If a team is better than another, then they are able to adapt and put up numbers and win tournaments. I do think LPL is definitely 3 steps behind. What happened to the LPL team which made it to S3 finals? Or S4? All Stars don't count I suppose so we'll leave thouse out but S5 LPL performances in international tournaments? Yes they impressed at MSI but then got left in the dust by the same SKT w/ sub 24 min wins in the group stages. Meta shifts are part of the game; teams which adapt are better. Period. How decorated are these LPL teams when it comes to IEMs? iirc ESC EVER won IEM Cologne.

Do enlighten me how many International tournaments LPL teams have stomped.

Lugg2 votes

EDG won last years MSI by beating SKT for starters.

Straw Hat Loki2 votes

{quoted}

EDG won last years MSI by beating SKT for starters.

Yup I mentioned that. My point was LPL is generally behind LCK. One tournament where in a Bo5 going the full distance EDG edge out a win and get absolutely demolished at Worlds w/ sub 25 min wins. Still, a win is a win so besides MSI I am clueless on LPL doing well; if you have any other tournaments which come to mind please let me know. It would change my view of LPL may be.

Lugg2 votes

RNC beat ESC today at MSI.

Straw Hat Loki1 votes

{quoted}

RNC beat ESC today at MSI.

Yup. It seems ESC Ever is really suffering against their roster changes.

Although, tbf RNG and QG are the top teams from LPL whereas ESC Ever is a Challenger team who just lost to a shaky TSM. Ever achieved a great feat by being the first challenger team to win IEM and that in its own is fantastic. They did take beat QG btw back then in the finals Bo5. Still, they are not LCK's topdogs like RNG and QG are for LPL.

We can compare LCK and LPL but let's compare their top teams in that case. ROX Tigers are without a doubt the best team right now and I'm very interested in seeing this slumping SKT go up against QG and if they advance, against RNG. I expect SKT to fall to these teams but it is still SKT; let's see how they do.

That is somewhat the issue with looking at these tournaments where the best teams of resp. regions are absent. MSI should be a really good tournament since the no. 1 seeds face off and give an idea of how regions compare; much like last year where it was the only time I saw LPL edge out LCK's powerhouse SKT.

Lugg1 votes

I really do want to see SKT face off against one of the Chinese teams. It will be a good indication of where both regions are at.

Straw Hat Loki2 votes

{quoted}

I really do want to see SKT face off against one of the Chinese teams. It will be a good indication of where both regions are at.

Lol tbh I'm scared that SKT will ruin their reputation of excellent results in International tournaments at this IEM. Here's to hoping CLG doesn't upset them but I am too nervous to watch this game play out. I don't mind them losing to QG but please not CLG.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Selk3t4 votes

SKT one month before 2014 All-Stars = 5-8th place in OGN ( http://lol.gamepedia.com/HOT6iX_Champions_Spring_2014 ) SKT SWEEPS 2014 All-Stars 8-0 ( http://lol.gamepedia.com/All-Star_Paris_2014 ) SKT two months after 2014 All-Stars = 5-8th place in OGN ( http://lol.gamepedia.com/HOT6iX_Champions_Summer_2014 )

Its been proven that SKT being in a slump in KOREA doesn't mean anything when they face other regions....................... Just saying

Lugg1 votes

SKT had a new team, they had to have time to develop chemistry. There was no doubt they would be great since they basically had the Korean All-Star team. Every member of that team was probably top 3 for their position.

However, this years team is nowhere near as good as previous teams so far.

Selk3t2 votes

They look like they're about to sweep IEM........

OHminus4 votes

I was taking this argument pretty seriously, but then I saw it was Lugg. Yea, the Lugg who thought SKT was falling off last year and wasn't going to win worlds.

Lugg2 votes

SKT was falling off until Riot changed the meta so Marin could carry them to victory. Everyone with half a brain knows this.

OHminus2 votes

More like SKT was coming off an extremely strong summer split where the meta was not yet changed; they were number one in Korea, 3-0ed the KOO (now ROX) Tigers and decimated the competition. Everyone with a brain cell knows this.

Lugg2 votes

SKT was definitely the best best team in Korea. You can't deny though that the meta change absolutely gutted the Chinese teams.

OHminus4 votes

That was only a part of it. The Chinese teams were mechanically dominant and were the best teams on paper; they had a multitude of communication issues, coaching issues, and overall just had a lack of preparation for Worlds. EDG's Koro also had a finger injury that prevented from playing his best, which is why AmazingJ played. Imp and Pyl seemed disconnected from GODV, TBQ was awful, and Acorn/Flame lacked communication with everyone else. Rookie/KakAO underperformed, IG's bot lane, to me, at least, seemed shaky even in LPL. The meta shift was not the sole factor that made the Chinese teams implode.

Overall, SKT won the tournament fairly; they had the best macro play, communication, and had mechanically dominant laners.

Delsoonbye1 votes

So did everyone forget that TSM completely destroyed CLG a couple weeks ago? , yet somehow CLG are a tier above TSM. If any team runs into a TSM team that is playing well like they did 2 weeks ago when they went 2-0 they could very well be an A tier as well. These rankings are complete bias and as a reporter/writer you should be ashamed to hold such bias whilst writing an article on power rankings. This is almost as bad as ESPN writers. Like really SKT1 is not playing well at all and theyre an S tier , while Qiao Gu Reapers lost 1 game and they arent S tier as well? why?!?!?!?!?!

Leeabøo10 votes

I mean no one can deny that TSM bent CLG over that ONE game. The same way NRG bent over TSM that ONE game. I understand you're highlighting the recent performance against the two NA teams attending IEM Katowice but CLG has at the very least performed more consistently than TSM thus far in NA so it's a fair assessment when glancing at the larger picture.

Edit: For clarity - Fair assessment placing CLG above TSM considering the entirety of the spring split thus far.

Magnum Mack6 votes

CLG has been far more consistent and grown with each victory finding what works. Hell, they toppled Immortals in s very long drawn out fight that was full of highlights. You can't say TSM and CLG are on the same level competitively in a tournament with scores and losses like they have. Hell, even some of TSM's WINS looked bad. At least when CLG won it looked and felt like a win.

I love TSM. I think they are historically a strong team, but so has CLG and this current season we are seeing CLG surge. Doesn't matter if they lost to TSM once, when I see the international teams up against them I see CLG managing their strategies and adapting rather than TSM floundering.

More from Esports

Is this investigation and explanation enough for an 'unauthorized member' joining the tournament
Esports30 comments
538
votes
Champs Seen at Words: A List
Esports230 comments
470
votes
NA Fans, I'm Embarassed
Esports501 comments
333
votes
Champs seen at worlds: A list
Esports262 comments
305
votes
third year in a row, C9 the last hope of NA
Esports152 comments
249
votes
Help me get Riot's attention
Esports101 comments
244
votes