TSM NA dominance, sign of weakness in NA?

SciFi Scrivener·9/5/2017, 1:19:45 PM·1 votes·820 views

Season 6 Worlds saw TSM finish in the group phase while C9, the NA 3rd seat, go on to the knock out bracket. This looked to show that the NA had depth. Season 7 looked to build on that. Then we have TSM win both splits, after falling flat at MSI.

Does this spell trouble for the NA LCS? What would it take to get the NA on the same competitive level as the LCK?

Or, am I just pessimistic? Will IMT have a good showing at worlds? Will C9 win the gauntlet this weekend, go to worlds, and repeat their trip to the knock out round?

21 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer9/5/2017, 1:21:49 PM5 votes

The TSM we've seen since MSI isn't anywhere close to how they were at MSI. Just look at Rift Rivals

Wasabi Kitty9/5/2017, 2:42:10 PM3 votes

No region, not just NA, is going to be close to the LCK any time soon.

AbiwonKenabi9/5/2017, 1:37:24 PM2 votes

I think that they actually look better than they looked this time last year. Last year they completely dominated, and fell flat at World's for a number of reasons, one of them being they crushed so hard in NA they weren't challenged to adapt or mix up their strategy. I think Doublelift said it best, they are better at playing from behind or even, which will be essential on the world stage. Hope this means that they won't be susceptible to the Korean slow strangle like they and many other teams have shown in years past.

I grew up in a town where all our sports teams kind of do a similar thing as TSM. I always root for them, believe they can win and have high hopes, but I am also prepared for disappointment. #TSMwin

III BAKURYU III 9/5/2017, 6:36:12 PM2 votes

Make no mistake NA isn't LCK, however honestly, NA has really become the 2nd most competitive region in league, there's just a few things that really hold NA back from actually becoming even more competitive than say LCK.

Players don't respect the structure, coaching or their teammates.
We've seen this from Dardoch, Jensen, Meteos, you name it. I know league and behind the scenes is more "entertainment" but you would think Dardoch would stop being a b**ch, once he saw people filming his behavior on the "breaking bad" but suppose not. Jensen was asked in an interview if his coach knew more about league than he did(Jensen), Jensen said " nah" that he knew more about League than his coach, how disrespectful in my opinion, in the Asian communities once you do something like that(disrespect your elders) you're done because it shows that there isnt' a ceiling to hold your behavior or emotions, what stops someone from taking over AKA " the inmates running the asylum" sort of speak, students acting "a fool" in school, that really stops the other students from learning and really makes them do the same.
" Then we have TSM win both splits, after falling flat at MSI".
MSI, is really interesting because while it does show us a small preview of Worlds it's also a hindrance with the season for teams in their own region. I'm not saying teams didn't care cause ( Group draw/standings and pools are very important) but honestly, teams could have really been more focused on their own region and trying to win it so they could be apart of Worlds, more focused on NA, LPL etc instead of MSI. You also have to look at NA as a region, we're scared, period. Once we go to international tournaments, we really scare ourselves, instead of saying " OH, man we're facing SKT, EDG, SSG, RNG, G2" let's really study them, practice and really give them a good running", instead it's like " We're done, these teams are too strong, Jesus, take the wheel". We psyche ourselves out too much before the events even start, and it was honestly, something that sports medicine and development that is honestly can be important in my opinion that can really help such teams.
" Will IMT have a good showing at Worlds"

In my opinion and this is just ME, I think TSM, IMT and if CLG goes to Worlds, then YES, I think NA will actually go far(TSM semi) at Worlds. 1 thing that has really improved in NA is honestly, patience and good macro play around the map for teams. Look at NA from 2012-13/14, compare to now, it's SO different, teams were complete garbage in the understanding of what to do in games, instead of "ok, kill this ward, then go to dragon to get their attention and once you do we will strike at their blue", back then it was like " gank top, gank mid, ok, let's get dragon/baron just cause". IMT need to work on their late-game and of course we need to see what group they will be apart of but for the most part, they should be fine, similar to LMQ in 2014 and SSB in my opinion is very close to what Immortals are, a fast pace team but if they get behind they're done(LMQ, as well as not solid players in lanes but good teamwork(SSB).
Personally I think the LPL(EDG/Invictus) are ok, but nothing special as what people are saying and it wouldn't surprise me if all 3 LPL teams get eliminated rather quick at Worlds.

"Will C9 win the gauntlet this weekend, go to worlds, and repeat their trip to the knock out round"?

I hope not, I think C9 has too many ? marks at this point, will Jensen actually do something outside of lane to help his team? Will he actually transfer his kill lead, cs lead, gold lead and pressure lead pre 15 mins to wins ? Will Sneaky actually do something other than lose lane 24/7 and actually have pressure, and the situation at top is soooo dicey.
People forget that 2016 Worlds for C9, Flash Wolves didn't know what to do late-game, it's like the Monstars took their energy before Worlds started, like 24-0 once they get a lead pre 15 mins and they had leads against Imay and C9 and went 0-2 against them, Imay was the #3rd LPL seed and really got in cause they got hot at the right time in their own region. Overall C9 was in a tough group but the teams within it(exception to SKT) didn't know what to do in games. I honestly hope CLG wins the gauntlet instead of C9, they have a more solid top laner(Darshan), an equal jungler in Omargod(Contractz) one of the more underrated mids that not only has became a monster, really helps his team constantly Huhi(Jensen) and a bot-lane that gets too much shit cause they lose lane sometimes, but I suppose this lane is any better(Sneaky/Smoothie) I mean that ADC loses lane for 7 years and no one cares huh ?

Sagan Forever9/5/2017, 3:06:52 PM2 votes

All the NA teams won 3 games throughout worlds, even C9 who when to the knockout stage( then were outclassed). In truth NA was terrible in season 6 and none of the teams were good enough for the knockout stage. Something I remember hearing from an analysis that was not on the TSM hype train last year was that dominating terrible teams means nothing, and that he felt the weakness of NA was holding back TSM.

NA is better than before, but the question is how much better. It will be interesting to see how the regions stack up at this worlds or if it will be as expected, are you a Korean team or are you luckily enough to avoid Koreans.

The Lexer9/5/2017, 9:44:22 PM1 votes

One of the TSM members, can't remember who, made a good point after the finals that last year, they always won lane and never learned how to play from behind. While TSM is more of a team fighting prowess now, I fear this is the same fate IMT will have this year. They have been the early game team this split, but they may not always win lane at worlds, so it depends if they have practiced coming from behind or not.

DoktorKaiser9/5/2017, 1:34:28 PM1 votes

They never did anything at worlds in 6 years, idk why people expect shit every year. They are a small minded team that can only win NA LCS and beat other weak teams from EU/LMS/etc and nothing more. Every other NA team has more chance to go further, even some EU teams, but honestly I feel that this year the gap is just extreme and no NA/EU team will leave the group unless its impossible not to aka there will be a group with 1 EU, 1 NA and 1 super shit team.

Hemanth9/5/2017, 3:29:32 PM1 votes

Well EDG are the same good show in LMS but choking at worlds

Hypochondria99/5/2017, 3:35:37 PM1 votes

I find NA teams are too predictable to beat Koreans, they play right into their hands. TSM can outplay their way out of a tight spot in NA, but if you give up a early lead to a top Korean team you lose 95% of the time.

I was always a fan of Fnatic back in the day because when they played Korean teams they tried new stuff and did crazy aggressive plays to force fights early on. It can backfire but I would rather see NA go out in a blaze of glory than being slowly bled out by superior macro play.

U No Gank Me Pls9/5/2017, 7:27:31 PM1 votes

Yes, NA is weak. Just like they have been the past 4 years.