A solution to the "Spectate Faker" Debate

eckener·Feb 23, 2015·2 votes·2,097 views

Dear Riot Games,

One of the things I love most about Riot Games as a company is the company's propensity to compromise and commitment to the players that contribute to the League of Legends community. As one of your devoted Season 1 summoners, please allow me to suggest a diplomatic solution to the hotly debated "Spectate Faker" streamer. I recommend that the spectate feature change the name displayed above the champions and the names displayed in the scoreboard from the summoner's name to the champion's name. This change will accomplish the following: respect Faker's privacy from third party streamers; respect the community's creative endeavors and free speech; respect Azubu's contract with Faker to the rights of Faker's professional e-sports brand; and enable the community to continue to learn from high elo solo que games.

As we all know, Azubu's complaint against the Spectate Faker streamer is that Azubu holds a contract with Faker that Faker will only stream on Azubu's streaming website. As the Summoner's Code and Terms of Service indicate, Faker cannot sign the rights of his account or his games to Azubu since Faker does not own his own account. Riot Games owns all player accounts. Riot Games also own all the games once the players start playing on the Rift. Faker owns his own image as an e-sports player.

My solution--changing the spectate mode to show only champion names--will take all private summoner names out of the spectate feature. Players will be able to watch high elo games while respecting the rights of said high elo players to have "privacy." Players will still be able to learn from watching high elo games even if they do not know which high elo player is playing jungle Lee Sin or mid Zed. Azubu wishes to have the rights to Faker's brand, and my solution will give Azubu the right without infringing on community members to broadcast high elo games via the spectate feature.

Practically, a "spectate faker" feature might not be as popular if players do not know for a fact if it is Faker playing, but we as a community maintain our freedom spectate high quality solo que games while respecting the privacy of professional players. Faker is a very mechanically skilled player, but let's not forget that the vast majority of us can still learn a great deal from MANY different mid laners. Can we--as a community--really complain if we think we are spectating Faker, but we are instead looking at another skilled Korean/EU/NA professional mid-laner? I know I could learn a lot from any professional mid-laner in the NA/Korean/EU LCS; I'd wager that most of you could as well.

This change would not effect streamers who broadcast their own games as they are not spectating themselves. Several streamers offer "sub-wars" where they spectate matches played by their subscribers. This feature will change their display; however, it will not adversely affect their ability to cast or offer analysis of game play as most streamers refer to players by champion name anyways (Trick2G and TheOddOne for example).

The only other party affected by my proposed change would be individuals spectating people on their friends list. You already know which champion they are playing from your friends list and if you have any questions, you can always whisper to them while they are in game.

To conclude, Riot, I strongly urge you to take this compromise to the "Spectate Faker" debate. You will respect a professional player's rights to privacy from third party broadcasters, respect contracts made between professional players with their sponsors, allow community free speech and creative liberates, and allow the community to improve by spectating high elo solo que games.

Respectfully, A concerned player

TL;DR: Riot does not have to force the spectate faker broadcaster to respect Faker's brand/personal identity. Changing the spectate feature to only show the champion names and not the summoner names will have the same effect while allowing players to spectate high quality elo games.

19 Comments

MyrddinFeb 23, 20155 votes

who cares

eckenerFeb 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

who cares

The league of legends sub-reddit was flooded with posts regarding the spectate faker controversy. I would have posted this to reddit, but the moderators have limited the new posts to allow more post diversity in the top read slots.

Several of the higher ranking Riot employees (Riot Tryndamere) were commenting about it on twitter yesterday so I believe that there are quite a few people interested in this case.

And quite a few--such as yourself--who are not. But to each his/her own.

VixanysFeb 23, 20156 votes

If you don't care, don't comment. You see the title, you see the persons comment.

Apparently you care enough to comment.

AriafluxFeb 24, 20154 votes

I was following the threads on Reddit and my conclusion is that it has turned into a "FIGHT THE POWAH" thing. They are absolutely shitting on Trynd for not seeing things the way they do, and now the streaming guy went back on his word to respect the wishes of Faker himself and the community is like "Yeah! Fuck them! ~~USA USA USA~~ DEMOCRACY!"

It's just the usual Reddit pitchforking, feeling empowered to fight against authority for their own benefit. "1. It's not legally wrong, 2. my morals > yours, 3. it's convnient for me. Therefore, fuck you."

eckenerFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was following the threads on Reddit and my conclusion is that it has turned into a "FIGHT THE POWAH" thing. They are absolutely shitting on Trynd for not seeing things the way they do, and now the streaming guy went back on his word to respect the wishes of Faker himself and the community is like "Yeah! Fuck them! ~~USA USA USA~~ DEMOCRACY!"

It's just the usual Reddit pitchforking, feeling empowered to fight against authority for their own benefit. "1. It's not legally wrong, 2. my morals > yours, 3. it's convnient for me. Therefore, fuck you."

I have definitely seen an element to the "anti-establishment" wing in the pro-spectate faker movement. I believe that my solution will take the wind out of their sails to some extent. Riot will not tell them "hey, you can't do that" and take away their new toy. Riot will just change the spectate mode to "protect player privacy." I believe that after the spectate mode is changed, the "spectate faker" trend will naturally die down as people cannot verify if faker really is playing. But players are given choices to make. We keep our freedom while protecting the privacy of a few individuals. I believe that this is an optimal solution.

Riot Tryndamere was concerned with "cyber-stalking" and Faker's personal privacy. I believe that this solution will address Tryndamere's concern without drastically altering any rules in the TOS agreement.

Yandere CarryMar 1, 20151 votes

if we were on the korean server we could just spectate via client.

VixanysFeb 23, 20153 votes

It is the specifically focused spectate of any individual player that is the issue.

Your solution does not address that. It simply address the concern with a visual patch. The issue would still be "Riven is Faker. I looked him up and am watching him specifically come watch me watch him play".

I think a better work-around would be for spectating individual players (finding a game of a specific player) to be taken out of the game. You have a list of active games going on based on their tier level. You will load up like a normal spectated game, and all player names are (as you mentioned) replaced with the Champion Name.

This way you have no individual being focused out, you have no conflicting issues with Platforms or Team Obligations. And you don't have someone benefiting from streaming off a specific players name(fame/infamy).

This would also help, because if a person wanted to watch a specific player playing they would need to do it through that players stream or platform.

eckenerFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is the specifically focused spectate of any individual player that is the issue.

Your solution does not address that. It simply address the concern with a visual patch. The issue would still be "Riven is Faker. I looked him up and am watching him specifically come watch me watch him play".

I think a better work-around would be for spectating individual players (finding a game of a specific player) to be taken out of the game. You have a list of active games going on based on their tier level. You will load up like a normal spectated game, and all player names are (as you mentioned) replaced with the Champion Name.

This way you have no individual being focused out, you have no conflicting issues with Platforms or Team Obligations. And you don't have someone benefiting from streaming off a specific players name(fame/infamy).

This would also help, because if a person wanted to watch a specific player playing they would need to do it through that players stream or platform.

I think it would address the issue. I watched the spectate faker stream a bit during worlds. Everyone who flooded the stream was always asking which account was faker's, etc. There were other streams that were re-broadcasting and the viewers were always asking/trying to confirm who was whom. If you cannot verify, then there will always be a little bit of doubt that will eventually make the games less interesting then say...watching QTpie stream his own games. I think those streams would naturally die off as the "fight the man" thrill dies away. It steals their thunder while allowing free speech.

I would like to see the spectate games feature to have their average elo listed. I think that, combined with just the champion names would help people find high quality games. The problem with the spectate faker broadcaster, is that he is using op.gg, a website that uses the Riot client. I'm concerned that if Riot changes the specifications in which people can use the Riot client, then it will negatively impact those websites, which I find quite useful for my own benefit...I'm sure several others do as well.

VixanysFeb 23, 20151 votes

I don't think my suggested changes would impact sites that use the Riot Client. Just require them to change with the changes. Instead of giving individual players listings it would have to list all shown games for a specific elo which would further eliminate a harassment/estalking issue that Tryndamere was addressing.

eckenerFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think my suggested changes would impact sites that use the Riot Client. Just require them to change with the changes. Instead of giving individual players listings it would have to list all shown games for a specific elo which would further eliminate a harassment/estalking issue that Tryndamere was addressing.

But for lolnexus, you can search for yourself while you are loading for a ranked game to see who you are against and how they are building. I find this feature quite useful sometimes. Do you think someone should be able to do that and how would your changes affect that?

VixanysFeb 24, 20151 votes

That wouldn't be affected. That is you looking up Masteries/Match History/Runes. This has nothing to do with spectating an individual player.

The SpectateFaker issue is a two prong issue.

#1 Azubu claiming Faker's stream as their content (issuing a DMCA)

#2 Potential Harassment of High Elo Individual players. The person that does SpectateFaker has either start to ignore when Faker himself is streaming pulling people from his stream (either from ignorance or benefiting off another player).

Tryndamere spoke on this as a possible harassment/estalking issue. My suggestion is to take out single player lookup for Spectating results only. You would no longer be able to find a game to spectate by summoner name. You would pick an elo you would like to watch. It gives you a list of games in that elo that you can pick/choose from. Summoner Names also would not be shown in the game.

Another thing, Friends List would not show "Playing as (Champion Name)." It would just say:

"Playing Ranked -SR/TT/etc)" "Playing Custom -(SR/TT/etc)" "Playing Normal -(SR/TT/etc)"

I think this solves, people streaming individual player spectates (especially if said player is streaming!). And prevents any loop-holes.

An alternative would be giving players the option to Opt-Out of being Spectated.

eckenerFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That wouldn't be affected. That is you looking up Masteries/Match History/Runes. This has nothing to do with spectating an individual player.

The SpectateFaker issue is a two prong issue.

#1 Azubu claiming Faker's stream as their content (issuing a DMCA)

#2 Potential Harassment of High Elo Individual players. The person that does SpectateFaker has either start to ignore when Faker himself is streaming pulling people from his stream (either from ignorance or benefiting off another player).

Tryndamere spoke on this as a possible harassment/estalking issue. My suggestion is to take out single player lookup for Spectating results only. You would no longer be able to find a game to spectate by summoner name. You would pick an elo you would like to watch. It gives you a list of games in that elo that you can pick/choose from. Summoner Names also would not be shown in the game.

Another thing, Friends List would not show "Playing as (Champion Name)." It would just say:

"Playing Ranked -SR/TT/etc)" "Playing Custom -(SR/TT/etc)" "Playing Normal -(SR/TT/etc)"

I think this solves, people streaming individual player spectates (especially if said player is streaming!). And prevents any loop-holes.

An alternative would be giving players the option to Opt-Out of being Spectated.

I like your suggestion that we can only search for games in elo brackets. I was thinking of giving players the option to search for 3-4 of their favorite top tier players...but this could also be exploited. Perhaps your solution is better.

Here is my opinion on the two-prong Spectate Faker debate (I have not read the contracts and I am not a lawyer):

Azubu has a legitimate contract with Faker that Faker will only stream on Azubu. Azubu's contract with Faker only extend to Faker's behavior. Faker owns the rights to his image and whatever value added is created by him playing the game. Faker; however, has a prior contract with Riot Games (as we all do) that Riot owns the game, the characters, the accounts, and the games created by people playing the game. Therefore, Azubu's contract with Faker does not guarantee that "all faker content" will only appear on Azubu. I am convinced that Azubu's DMCA holds no weight and Azubu was wrong to issue it.
Tryndamere expressed concern with "cyber stalking" and whatnot. I am not, personally, convinced that Faker is being "stalked" by people who are living on another continent who have made no threats or attempts at personal contact with him. However, I do believe that Faker has a right to his own image and the value added by him playing league. I also think that we must establish who has rights to what before we can brainstorm as to how to protect these rights.

Faker has rights to his own labor and the value added from playing league.
Azubu and Faker have entered into a contract, both parties have the right to enforce and benefit from their voluntary relationship. Neither party; however, have the right to the game. Riot does. And I am personally opposed to the idea that Riot interceed on behalf of private parties to be the economic hit man of Azubu.

I believe that my solution (combined with some of the improvements you have suggested) will enable Riot to skate the issue and protect the rights and personal liberates of all parties present while protecting the privacy of high elo players.

TheGrandAllianceFeb 24, 20151 votes

Mates... for ones whom are not aware of the technical details of the matter...

What is "spectate Faker" again? I know Faker is that dude who is/was super epic mid lane on Korean teams but what is this feature you are talking about and how does is violate anything again?....

BTW one solution to get around the spectate sub issue would simply spectate one of the teammates/opponents of a match. That way you can watch faker without paying anything... Of course this requires you to know real-time info on matches and the like but it could be done...

And lastly... FAKER has been overrated for over a year now. He wasn't able to do anything to get his team to perform in Season 4 and again in Season 5. Just because you "may" be the best mid or otherwise player in LoL doesn't mean you have the leadership to make your team win. THis isn't a 1v1 game anyways....

VixanysFeb 24, 20151 votes

SpectateFaker is a stream that uses op.gg to watch in realtime (relative to the Riot Client spectate 3min delay) to Stream Faker games. This stream was issue a DMCA (stop it! Warning) for the stream issued by Azubu (the company that contracts Faker to stream. The issue is that Azubu does not own the rights to the gameplay footage vs they have a contract with player being spectated.

Conversely, Riot CO-CEO Tryndamere further investigated and commented on the issue that Faker contacted Riot about the Spectating of his games and how they were enabled while he was streaming as well.

This debate isn't merely about Faker or even Azubu. It was brought to light because of Azubu's interaction with SpectateFaker stream.

I believe that disabling all individual spectating would clarify this (more detailed acknowledgement in this conversation), but the fact of the matter follows a couple of things:

Who owns the rights when a game is spectated? Who owns the contents of a spectated game (as there are 10 players total, and all of them cannot own all of the content)? Do companies that have contacts with a player in a Spectated Game have ownership of the content of that game.

Honestly, the quickest and easiest response from Riot about this would have an Opt-In for Spectatorship. You opt out. No one can spectate your games. EZ-PZ

I don't know why you bring the Fact/Opinion that Faker is overrated into this conversation as it has little to do about Faker. This debate could very well have been SpectateFroggen or SpectateBjergersen. >.>

eckenerFeb 24, 20151 votes

Vixanys has an excellent summary of the "Spectate Faker" controversy.

This isn't about watching streams for free or subscriptions. Currently, you can spectate--using the Riot client--any game with a 3 minute delay. Spectating games is not against Riot's terms of service. Riot even encourages people to spectate in their "featured games" section.

One fellow (I shall call him the "Spectate Faker Broadcaster") uses a program to scan for Faker as he is playing solo-que games. The Spectate Faker Broadcaster then created a stream on Twitch.tv to "spectate faker" as Faker plays solo-que games.

Faker, as it turns out, signed a contract with azubu.tv to only stream on Azubu. Azubu is another website (like twitch) that specializes in hosting streamed gamers. Both services are free with revenue coming from ads, donations, voluntary subscriptions (I'm not as familiar with azubu's technicalities, but I know it's free to watch).

NOW, here is where the series of events start. Azubu issues a DMCA (stop what you're doing) to the "Spectate Faker Streamer." The Spectate Faker Streamer then posted on Reddit saying he doesn't think he has to stop because Azubu doesn't own the games. Riot Games owns all League of Legends characters, clients, player accounts, and games created by people playing. So Azubu has no legal ground to make the Spectate Faker Streamer stop streaming on a competitor's website.

Riot Tryndamere, the Co-CEO of Riot Games, expressed some concern over player safety and possible stalking. Tryndamere stated that Riot was in contact with Azubu, SKT, and Faker, and all parties want the Spectate Faker stream on Twitch.tv to stop.

Recently, there is a "stand up to the man" anti-establishment twist on the series of events and some people are quite hostile to what was said or the justification behind it. (The Spectate Faker Streamer says he will not take the stream down even though he previously said he'd do it for faker).

I humbly submitted my solution (to remove the summoner names from the third-party spectate feature) as a way of maximizing community liberty while ensuring the privacy of the high elo players.

TheGrandAllianceFeb 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miss Inform,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=6aNBn3Rv,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2015-02-24T20:51:34.047+0000)

This isn't about watching streams for free or subscriptions. Currently, you can spectate--using the Riot client--any game with a 3 minute delay. Spectating games is not against Riot's terms of service. Riot even encourages people to spectate in their "featured games" section.

One fellow (I shall call him the "Spectate Faker Broadcaster") uses a program to scan for Faker as he is playing solo-que games. The Spectate Faker Broadcaster then created a stream on Twitch.tv to "spectate faker" as Faker plays solo-que games.

NOW, here is where the series of events start. Azubu issues a DMCA (stop what you're doing) to the "Spectate Faker Streamer." The Spectate Faker Streamer then posted on Reddit saying he doesn't think he has to stop because Azubu doesn't own the games. Riot Games owns all League of Legends characters, clients, player accounts, and games created by people playing. So Azubu has no legal ground to make the Spectate Faker Streamer stop streaming on a competitor's website.

WEll this is all that has to be said on the matter...

They have no legal case. RIOT does whatever it wants. End of Story.

BTW I fail to understand how there are any "privacy" matters to be involved here. Should LoLKING be deleted because it complies complete histories of all players? RIOT is a public-use environment... and people who play must be willing to subject their actions openly, or go home.

Therefore there is no "hide player names solution" as there is no logical need to do so.

eckenerFeb 24, 20151 votes

I don't think anyone has suggested that lolking.com or any services similar to them are objectionable. Azubu did not want someone playing Faker's solo que games on a competing website. Again, you said that legally, Azubu can't do anything about it since Riot owns all the content.

There's a huge question right in there, "What will Riot do?" Again, Riot Tryndamere indicated some concern with someone "cyber stalking" all of Faker's games. It was not the third-party spectating that anyone was opposed to, but rather, spectating all the solo-que games of only one player and advertising the stream as featuring said player that the opposed parties objected to.

In that regard, I believe that my solution, (making the third party spectate feature hide summoner names) would solve the problem without infringing on player freedom.

TheGrandAllianceFeb 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miss Inform,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=6aNBn3Rv,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-24T21:13:06.487+0000)

I don't think anyone has suggested that lolking.com or any services similar to them are objectionable. Azubu did not want someone playing Faker's solo que games on a competing website. Again, you said that legally, Azubu can't do anything about it since Riot owns all the content.

There's a huge question right in there, "What will Riot do?" Again, Riot Tryndamere indicated some concern with someone "cyber stalking" all of Faker's games. It was not the third-party spectating that anyone was opposed to, but rather, spectating all the solo-que games of only one player and advertising the stream as featuring said player that the opposed parties objected to.

In that regard, I believe that my solution, (making the third party spectate feature hide summoner names) would solve the problem without infringing on player freedom.

Yes however remember FAKER is a LoL LCS player... and just like any pro player in any sport, his related sports "privacy" rights go summoner 4 .

Faker is a pro gamer... and is part of LCS. Therefore his actions are subject to public observation. IF he wanted privacy he wouldn't be in LCS.

BTW I do understand how this issue means a great deal to you. However to 99.99+% of the player base these technical matters are of no concern nor relationship to anyone alas...