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LCS questions

Luner Hunter··1 votes·289 views

Since when did LCS become all that riot cared about? each time a buff or a nerf comes out its almost always inferred that LCS had something to do with the reasoning behind it... not to mention each time a discussion about why a buff or a nerf happened its almost always said "well in LCS XYZ champion is doing just fine". why does a moderate player like me even (let me be frank here)GIVE A FLYING FUCK how well an LCS player can make a champion do when they probably have hundreds more hours into this game than the average player does? THE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT cuz they've played so much and not have the rest of the community have to suffer with nerfs or "buffs" to champions due to 20 or so people being able to make a champion able to do something that they weren't meant for... though riot says they don't enforce any metas, nerfing a champion so that they can barely do what they are suppose to do and unable leave that roll seems to be enforcing a meta to me... which conflicts with the new "team builder" that is currently about to start its live beta testing that is meant to "break the meta" but how can one break the meta when champions cant leave their rolls????????

11 Comments

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

Team builder will be a separate que, blind pick will still be there and allow for meta breaking, and will probably attract a lot more people willing to do so (or less people refusing to budge from the meta).

As for balancing to pros, they kinda have to. Leaving a champion in a state where they are definitively overplayed in pros will have it trickle down to the community. Pro play is a very good indicator of possible abuse trends that the community can then pick up. Prime example: Annie Support. Pros, because for their time commitment and skill will almost always be the first to stumble upon something that is needing a nerf and abuse it where they can. So balancing to pro play is like having a forecast for majority community trends. Sure some nerfs and buffs may be too quick or too slow, but you can't expect perfect timing with patching the largest multiplayer game in the world.

The game will be constantly re-balanced, pro play or no pro play, and I have the feeling you would be complaining either way if your favorite champs got nerfed. Learn to deal with the constant changes, it's what keeps the game from going stale.

Luner Hunter1 votes

changes sure but breaking champions wouldn't be a change for the better now would it?

Sir ArmaMalum3 votes

Imho, no champions have ever been 'broken' by anything. Riot has a slew of calculations and precedents to fall back on to keep a specific champion's power level in line. But it is actually purposeful to keep the game imbalanced (some strong champs, some weak champs) to encourage dynamic player experiences and popularity. Take Shen for example. He is very unpopular, largely due to the respectable increase to his ult's cooldown a while back, and then the taunt tweaks to stop the unintuitive range. Yet he's not actually weak, he's just not able to stay completely even with the top tier champions at the moment of played with equivalent skill. Slightly better skill, teamwork, circumstances and consistency on the player's end can easily get around this, but in pro play it just isn't done, because these factors are relatively close. So number changes on Riot's end are the things that define the balance there. Casual players like ourselves will always have the advantage (or disadvantage) of skill difference, and therefore not be nearly as tied down by the patch changes as pros are.

Give me any example of a champion being 'broken' and I can give you a dissertation on why you were having a bad time.

And also, for some interesting background on the game design theory of 'perfect imbalance', watch this: watch this.

Sry for the wall o' text I do that a lot :P

Luner Hunter1 votes

Wow... honestly the first level headed reply i've seen! I honestly feel disarmed by your last post (as in i dont feel angry replying to your post) i wish more people could reply in the same manor! I've actually enjoyed the youtube link and have watched a few more by the same people.

now "perfect imbalance" is all well and good but there is no other supports that are "perfectly imbalanced" over the ones that are currently screwed since they screwed ALL the supports its now all about AP midlaners and Tanks and that is due to the LCS scene... although they do find what might be or will be OP before anyone else does the average player picks up a champ and plays it to a more moderate level in which they feel robbed or betrayed by riot when they nerf a champion (read as the average player feels they've gutted their champ) due to some really skilled person in the LCS scene.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Yes, I also wish more people could be level-headed, but that's where I feel it falls on me and others in the community to set an example oh "How to forum", but that's another story. Glad you liked the vid. :)

Okay the support change is a whole other kettle of fish (kind of 1/2 replying to your other comment as well here). This change had several things working against it, chief among them being lack of precedents. The huge change of bringing in AP ratios to utility had never been done before, so Riot lacked any clearly defined prediction of how it would truly affect the game. they tried, they brought in pros and casual gamers alike to privately test, but no sample size will compare to the actual playerbase LoL has, PBE included. A huge change like this is not meant as a means of direct balancing but as a way to open more avenues of balancing. Adjusting damage numbers, stun duration and blinks should (keep in mind this is mostly speculation, I'm not a game designer) be easy for Riot to balance for comparatively because they have experience doing so. What this change does is allows for smaller and more precise tweaks to certain areas of a champion's kit. Does this mean it will be immediately better tuned? No, they're only human. Lame excuse I know, but the simple fact is balancing and game design takes every tiny little thing into consideration and adding more knobs and levers can give Riot more control over the power. But that doesn't mean someone won;t push a lever to far either way.
Tl;dr They're still growing into the ability to tweak scaling utility spells, and will get better with it over time.

As for a specific champion or a specific set of champions that you prefer to play getting nerfed, I suggest reading my reply to Tulare. Who, random note, also has had a very respectable attitude when he came by a few my [Guide] posts. Goes to show there's more good people here, they're just harder to find :)

Luner Hunter1 votes

they didnt nerf my favorite champs they nerfed a class of champs which is what i happen to have an issue with! they didnt touch voli, ahri, or viegar they buffed leona's w and they even put a small nerf to shyvana which im all good with but when they gutted all the supports AP ratios ect it wasnt a "favorite champ" thing it was the whole class called "supports"

MackleDoge1 votes

Will you please just quit crying all over the place? Or at least find something new to complain about.

Luner Hunter1 votes

sure once i get an answer that isnt related to LCS i'll gladly never even touch the LoL forums ever again! and i can be as pissed off and post where ever the hell i want aslong as its relevant to the part of the forums in which i post in! however harassing me about "crying" isnt relevant, its about as annoying as my "crying", and YOU DONT HAVE TO CLICK A GOD DAMN LINK TO COME TO ANY FUCKING THREAD I POST... so kindly fuck off!

MackleDoge1 votes

QQ

Tulare1 votes

I see that there's some bitterness brewing in this thread but I would nonetheless like to contribute my opinion.

I tend to agree with the original poster. From a gameplay perspective, there's a relatively small number of champions with which I am skilled. If one of my preferred champions gets nerfed out of viability (or falls out of favour, however you prefer to perceive the phenomenon), then I'm going to suffer disproportionately. This, despite the fact that I'm not an especially good player to begin with and nothing I'm doing resembles the kinds of abusive, nerf-worthy plays that the pros are making.

From a marketing standpoint, when a buff or nerf occurs solely because of what's going on at the pro level, it reinforces the notion that Riot is making this game for other people and not for me.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

That is a very good point, and I will completely agree that making a specific group o champions weaker will have the chance of putting specific player's 'preferred pool' in a rut and therefore giving them, as an individual, more of a hurt than others. And that sucks.

Personally I don't expect everyone to learn every champion in the game, that's a tall order reserved for those who have little to no life (Hi :P). But unfortunately this problem will always have a presence in any game that constantly receives balance changes. Take WoW for an exaggerated example. There are plenty of people that only like playing Paladins, and anytime a nerf is leveled at them there will be a percentage of the playerbase that will not be fans of the change. League has this happen even more so because of the fact that they can't keep everything static, there will always be changes.

Although your point will probably become much more popular as we continue on due to the much slowed input of new champions and re-works and therefore few changes to specific people's 'preferred pool'

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