EU LCS Franchising

Takaray·Nov 30, 2017·2 votes·1,081 views

I am pretty excited for all regions to eventually franchise as it will add stability to the leagues and it will make it easier for me to promote the sport to my friends and family that might not even play the game. However I am a little afraid of some teams that should make it into the league not making it because of financial reasons, I am not too worry about G2, Fnatic or Misfits as they all have teams on other leagues to support their league bidding, however H2K and Unicorns of Love are known for not being that profitable even tho they are emblems of the league, I don't know anything about Splyce so no comment on them. I also think it's safe to say that FC Schalke 04 and Paris WILL franchise in Europe they both have been around in the Challenger series for a while and have gigantic soccer teams to back them up. Anyway which EU LCS team are you worry for? and Which soccer club do you think is gonna buy a spot in the EU LCS?

11 Comments

Ale non è maleNov 30, 20171 votes

Nope. Franchise is a terrible idea for EU. EU has a wider talent pool and a lot of good local amateur/semipro/lower level pro organization and a developed competitive underwood + a lot of untapped potential to attract sport teams partnership/ownership, it make no sense to kill these players/orgs/tournament organizers that are the foundation at the basis of EU scene.

Give more money, more exposure, more meaning to a new revamped CS and expand and strengthen ERLs system to create a more solid promotion/relegation system like the traditional structure of EU sports, but just DO NOT FRANCHISE EU

TakarayNov 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=5AawJ2cH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-30T01:47:50.945+0000)

Nope. Franchise is a terrible idea for EU. EU has a wider talent pool and a lot of good local amateur/semipro/lower level pro organization and a developed competitive underwood + a lot of untapped potential to attract sport teams partnership/ownership, it make no sense to kill these players/orgs/tournament organizers that are the foundation at the basis of EU scene.

Give more money, more exposure, more meaning to a new revamped CS and expand and strengthen ERLs system to create a more solid promotion/relegation system like the traditional structure of EU sports, but just DO NOT FRANCHISE EU

I understand why you don't like it, but it IS going to happen that is not up for debate, I think the extra talent will just bleed into NA and the smaller leagues from EU, the EU LCS will mature talent, they'll leave and they will be replace by young players from EU and so forth. I like relegation I really do, it makes it so even huge names can be crush if they perform badly and it makes everyone put at least some effort at all times, but investors do not like it, and for this to grow we need investors. Anyway like I say no point in arguing Franchising has already been decided for EU, it's just a matter of who is in and who is out I think G2, Fnatic, Misfits and after reading some more Splyce are all but guaranteed their spot, I just want my Unicorns to make it :( it'd be pretty sad if H2K doesnt make it either.

Ale non è maleNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I understand why you don't like it, but it IS going to happen that is not up for debate.

People can still avoid It to happened, but we need that people like you and many others stop thinking franchising is necessary or dismissing EU as a lesser league (especially when it has historically outperformed NA) Franchising is not necessary for things like revenue sharing, but people need to stop thinking "EU has no personality" or "EU is boring" or "you can't get attachment to players because they are unknown" and dismiss the league when they are clearly not following the pro scene (otherwise why OpTic got UOL's Romain to kickstart their League team? Wouldn't have they found plenty of "personalities" in the so entertaining NA scene? /s)

Not everyone think "personality" is shitty memes and the same 15 players on top that you get to know because the rest of native player pool sucks dick and you never get to replace old guys declining with new blood, there's plenty of other (and better) way to express "personality" that are purposedly ignored by NA audience, that then start on the media the circlejerk and convince themselves and others including EU audience of the "EU is boring" thing, when you got things like H2What videos that are 100 times better than whatever any NA teams has.produced in the last season or the Team Roccat reddit guy that has the best engagement with reddit comunity, or the banter between players on social media that is immediately branded as "toxic" (when for example Doublelift have gotten multiple passes for worse things said in interviews)

Riot HQ has done a terrible job for EU because all shows and production efforts has gone in the last years towards producing almost the entirety of shows focused on NA players, NA way of entertainment and favoring NA exposure with timezones towards getting the NA audience (EU air time that was terrible for the EU regional but NA air time was planned to maximize viewership from both regions)

TakarayNov 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=5AawJ2cH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-30T09:10:05.265+0000)

People can still avoid It to happened, but we need that people like you and many others stop thinking franchising is necessary or dismissing EU as a lesser league (especially when it has historically outperformed NA) Franchising is not necessary for things like revenue sharing, but people need to stop thinking "EU has no personality" or "EU is boring" or "you can't get attachment to players because they are unknown" and dismiss the league when they are clearly not following the pro scene (otherwise why OpTic got UOL's Romain to kickstart their League team? Wouldn't have they found plenty of "personalities" in the so entertaining NA scene? /s)

Not everyone think "personality" is shitty memes and the same 15 players on top that you get to know because the rest of native player pool sucks dick and you never get to replace old guys declining with new blood, there's plenty of other (and better) way to express "personality" that are purposedly ignored by NA audience, that then start on the media the circlejerk and convince themselves and others including EU audience of the "EU is boring" thing, when you got things like H2What videos that are 100 times better than whatever any NA teams has.produced in the last season or the Team Roccat reddit guy that has the best engagement with reddit comunity, or the banter between players on social media that is immediately branded as "toxic" (when for example Doublelift have gotten multiple passes for worse things said in interviews)

Riot HQ has done a terrible job for EU because all shows and production efforts has gone in the last years towards producing almost the entirety of shows focused on NA players, NA way of entertainment and favoring NA exposure with timezones towards getting the NA audience (EU air time that was terrible for the EU regional but NA air time was planned to maximize viewership from both regions)

I don't know where are you getting that I dislike the EU LCS, I am telling you I am worry about my favorite teams not making it to franchise, clearly I like them and I want them to stay in the league... The issue with the relegation system vs franchising it's not about quality it's about finances, it is clear that there is more money to be made in a franchised system and that it is more competitive as teams have similar resources to fight for contracts, for example: The Spanish Soccer league is based on a relegation system that means only the best teams are in the league at all time this is true, however you have some teams ALWAYS dominating the team, the more they win the more they make and with that they get the money to purchase even better players and win some more it creates a circle where only the top teams get the talent, this can clearly be seen in EU with G2 completely dominating the league and Fnatic doing so before them with only Alliance breaking anyone's streak. Compare that with the NFL, sure you can argue that the best teams are NOT always on the league but because of revenue sharing and the draft system(which NA is getting in a quasi way) talent is evenly divided and rarely do you see a team dominate year after year, hell you almost never even see 2 Superbowls in a row. What Riot is hoping is to reproduce this and have more than 3 competitive teams in NA, not in a single season but throughout the years. Look I'm not saying Franchising is the best way, but it does have it's merits and we need to recognize those to have an honest conversation on what's best for league. Further, our opinion on which is better is irrelevant that's up to Riot and they don't care about what you or I think they care what investors think.

Ale non è maleDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted} . Compare that with the NFL, sure you can argue that the best teams are NOT always on the league but because of revenue sharing and the draft system(which NA is getting in a quasi way) talent is evenly divided and rarely do you see a team dominate year after year, hell you almost never even see 2 Superbowls in a row.

This argument is just wrong. From 2001 onwards NFL was won by Ravens defense, Brady, Buccaneers defense, Brady, Brady, Roethlisberger, P.Manning, Giants defense (beating in SB an almost perfect season Brady team), Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Giants defense, Ravens defense (Ray Lewis), Seattle defense, Brady, P.Manning, Brady.

Except the outlier of Buccaneers season, it's always the same narrow kind of talent that win leagues. The teams with those talents dominated and win, and that is what has happened in NA LCS too where the big 3 (TSM, C9, CLG) won LCS splits...if anything in EU more teams came out and challanged for 1st Place getting to Finals (and losing) throughout the years And there is no system in place that guarantee in league a team to have such a big economic advantage to always keep the best talent around regardless of franchising or not.

Franchising is very good for NA because of their scene peculiarities...EU just had different peculiarities and must be given a different system while retaining the support and advantages NA is getting Your line of reasoning is bad because you are saying Riot should basically ignore the differences between EU and NA even if you acknowledge them and you shouldn't do anything to make them recognize them or change their minds and they should just force upon EU a system that does not fit their strengths and features but was tailor made for NA needs, making the region weaker since they would lose the competitive advantages they actually have over other scenes

TakarayDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=5AawJ2cH,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T00:36:34.155+0000)

This argument is just wrong. From 2001 onwards NFL was won by Ravens defense, Brady, Buccaneers defense, Brady, Brady, Roethlisberger, P.Manning, Giants defense (beating in SB an almost perfect season Brady team), Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Giants defense, Ravens defense (Ray Lewis), Seattle defense, Brady, P.Manning, Brady.

Except the outlier of Buccaneers season, it's always the same narrow kind of talent that win leagues. The teams with those talents dominated and win, and that is what has happened in NA LCS too where the big 3 (TSM, C9, CLG) won LCS splits...if anything in EU more teams came out and challanged for 1st Place getting to Finals (and losing) throughout the years And there is no system in place that guarantee in league a team to have such a big economic advantage to always keep the best talent around regardless of franchising or not.

Franchising is very good for NA because of their scene peculiarities...EU just had different peculiarities and must be given a different system while retaining the support and advantages NA is getting Your line of reasoning is bad because you are saying Riot should basically ignore the differences between EU and NA even if you acknowledge them and you shouldn't do anything to make them recognize them or change their minds and they should just force upon EU a system that does not fit their strengths and features but was tailor made for NA needs, making the region weaker since they would lose the competitive advantages they actually have over other scenes

I think you're missing the point, franchising does NOT make teams with less talent win, it makes talent more evenly divided among teams, you can clearly see a lot of variety in the teams that won the NFL since 2001 and that's because talent doesnt stay in a single team, it is evenly distributes and shifts to new teams every year, here is the list of winners in order since 2001: Ravens Patriots Buccaneers Patriots Patriots Steelers Colts Giants Steelers Saints Packers Giants Ravens Seahawks Patriots Broncos Patriots That's 10 teams in 17 years not too shabby, Patriots seem to be the better team winning 5 times but all other teams are competitive(Keep in mind there is 32 teams in the league so that's 1/3 of teams winning a Bowl in 17 years) In comparison here is the winners of the Spanish League since 2001, tell me how much variety do you see: Valencia Real Madrid Valencia Barcelona Barcelona Real Madrid Real Madrid Barcelona Barcelona Barcelona Real Madrid Barcelona Atletico Madrid Barcelona Barcelona Real Madrid Barcelona I think it's obvious but the variety of teams is abysmal, 4 teams in 17 years, one of which won once and another twice the other 14 times was the same 2 teams, that's because they horde the talent and they get all the money so other teams are simply not at their level. This is the point you're missing, more teams will be competitive because their resources will be similar and each year the shitty teams will be able to acquire the fresh talent before the big teams, in a relegation team that just doesnt happen, bigger teams get more resources and they get first pick on fresh talent and continue to grow to infinity.

Ale non è maleDec 1, 20171 votes

DUDE, I didn't wrote the NFL champion list that without a reason.

Behind Colts and Broncos there was the same QB, the same for Ray Lewis as defensive mastermind into Ravens defense, the same for Rotlethlisberger behind Steelers win, etc...

Barring Buccaneers exception, it is around the same talent behind every victory, either ine of the selected elite QB or one of the selected defenses And this is worth for every sport regardless of league structure.

NA LCS saw far less teams reaching the LCS Split Finals and reaching Worlds than EU LCS in the same period span with the same league system because the NA resident talent pool was much smaller and the teams that achieved success were the teams were those player went, which were basically every time the same and remained in the same teams (barring IMT, without counting the all Chinese LSPL caliber LMQ roster conquering NA before residench rule change)...and this happened despite NA LCS having far more money than EU LCS, because it was always a matter of talent first.

NA LCS doesn't look like will have new teams/talented in the top once we are seeing all the rosters coming together, and this will remain regardless of franchising as long as others teams aren't capable to snag new talents off those major teams.

EU LCS has had a system in place with promotion/relegation + a third tier of località competition that was capable to nurture talent and place multiple teams and players at the top of the standings, why should it imposed a system that destroys those strength rather than giving the resources to not make those rosters break/disband because a way richer team (NA or EU) come with more money and snag those players?

Franchising gives money to the team at the top at the cost of destroying third parties sources that can invest in the scene and breed talent, giving this duty upon major league organizations which primary goal is to win fast (especially in the current system where draft is nearly useless and you can't plan for "the process" because talents aren't tunneled throughout a single system to the scene, a bit like baseball is rather than basketball).

NA didn't have those third parties sources of talent so they needed to force franchising to shake up things in the long term and force teams to do it so. EU just need money and exposure to get money for the teams on all the tiers in the ladder that were denied by Riot HQ so far because all the other systems were yet in place in the current system. EU teams are willing to stay with relegation from LCS as long as they get assured they can survive in Challenger scenes and that relegation isn't an immediate death blow, because is in their overall interest to keep alive a system that produces a stream of "cheap" talent. Giants returned to LCS After stomping CS with a roster made basically by the All-Stars selection of the best player outside/ignored by LCS and CS (Jiizuke and Ruin best players from the losing finalist teams of EU CSQ Spring Split, Minitroupax best young and upcoming player of Iberic scene, Jactroll best available support that wasn't yet in CS/top contenders of major regional scenes)...a NA teams like build like that would have not made it to CS in first place or they would have finished below Delta Fox aka Meme Stream Dream Team

GeminiRuneNov 30, 20171 votes

Are you making it sound like the EU process for whatever franchising/partnership motives will be carbon copy to that of what happened for NA? Why can't it just be like China's motion? I mean money doesn't have to be the universal be all end all factor for organizations to be eligible to even compete. Personally I'm not worried at all. We'll get to that hurdle when it comes. Just like we will for the other 10 regions IF it even comes to that.

TakarayNov 30, 20171 votes

According to Riots original release it sure sounds like it will be extremely similar to NA, further they already move to a gaming format that matches NA and got rid of Relegation for this off-season. Altho it hasnt been stated I would imagine that there will be 10 teams to be franchised at a particular fee, which I would assume would be around NA's seeing that 4 EU teams applied in NA.(Meaning they had the 10m to franchise) Look I'm not arguing with you guys if this is going to happen or if it's a good thing, Riot decides that. What I want to know is who are you guys expecting to get the franchise spots, who do you think is at risk and which clubs you think will buy a slot into the LCS in the way that NBA teams bought 3 LCS slots. Sources for ESPN reporting and Riots original release, don't kill the messenger.

http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/21225798/league-legends-european-championship-series-move-franchise-partnership-model-abandon-promotion-relegation

https://eu.lolesports.com/en/articles/eu-lcs-in-2018-and-beyond

GhostOfTsushimaDec 3, 20171 votes

First Riot will not franchise EU LCS if it not successful in NA, they already said that

And first of all CHINA is one of the first region to franchise before any other region. According to what I've heard from one of the LoL Esport broadcast

Korea, would eventually be the only beneficial region to have franchising happen because of how easily Korean Team replace their players, making Korean players vulnerable to being fuck up on.

This system would protect the Players career and so, even money that they can't earn as much as a player would in NA

Ale non è maleDec 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

First Riot will not franchise EU LCS if it not successful in NA, they already said that

Nope. They would have liked to franchise or partially franchise EU (even though if people called it "Champions League" format refferring to football I think one of the options in their mind is basketball's Euroleague format, either old or new one). It is a big part of the community that is opposing against it, unless it becomes the only way to stop the process of bleeding talent (and it is clear of howRiot HQ/EU has not putted nearly enough effort in the past for EU, so a lot of people are arguing that franchising isn't the obvious way to go like it has been showed so far referring to NA/Western scene), because it would mean to surrend one of the big advantages thjat has kept EU relevant despite the lack of money/exposure (meaningful underwood scene that pump pout a good amount of fresh new talent), and the outcry was one of the reasons why Riot stopped their immediate plans (alongside logistics issues)

Korea, would eventually be the only beneficial region to have franchising happen because of how easily Korean Team replace their players, making Korean players vulnerable to being fuck up on.

Korea is the only region where franchising is actually out of question, because of some main factors. One is similar to EU but miltiplied X 10, they have an underwood system that produces a lot of talent, so they don't feel they need franchising to help them produce talent (see Academies in NA/China) as they yet produces a lot of it that would be cockblocked by franchising process, making a lot of lower tier competition useless The bigger factor is that KR esports scene is yet basically dominated by KeSpa which provides a structure similar to the one of a major sports league/federation, managing esports and helping teams in pushing for regulations for players welfare and helping teams to find sponsors and money from various sources including TV broadcast rights (which is the major thing Na franchising brought through BAMTech agreement, a thing they could likely not bring to EU franchising by the way), without actually forcing franchising because they have more teams (and would likely to include further teams that so far have remained independent) than what would be locked in with franchising. Heck, everytime Riot try to get more control over the KR scene it clashes vs KeSpa (and OGN as the major broadcaster), so no way KR is going to accept franchising...maybe losing a bonjwa ala Faker at the top of his career could make something move, but it is very very unlikely to happen