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Here is why the LMQ situation needs to be addressed.

MajorPain9··9 votes·2,429 views

Lets talk about baseball.

It is a growing popular sport in Asia right now, pretty similarly to how E-sports are becoming more and more popular here in NA and EU.

One of the main contributions to this is the fact that Pro athletes from the USA, voluntarily go play for a team for a season or two. It challenges the others playing against a team with a foreigner and helps grow relationships within the country between those on the same team. It's considered a great addition to the sport.

Want to know what isn't tolerated though? The Yankees or the Red Sox going over to Japan as an entire team and wiping the entire floor of the region. In fact it isn't allowed for the sheer reason that it would destroy other teams morale, ruin the growing trend of the sport, and would set baseball back immensely from gaining popularity.

LMQ isn't the Yankees. They are more like the Dodgers. However if the dodgers are allowed to do this, what is going to stop the Cardinals or Giants teams from doing the same?

Riot if you want E-Sports to grow even further, this needs to be addressed before the next season starts. Its toxic to the game, the fans of LCS NA, and it's honestly just annoying having a translator.

37 Comments

Old Man Teeto9 votes

I love how people are so pissy about LMQ legitimately

MOVING to the United States. Climbing the ranked 5v5 ladder to compete in the championship series. Placing first in said tournament, beating XDG in the promotion series. Performing admirably the entire split, and securing their spot to worlds.


While Evil Genius's, moved from Europe, took over the incumbent slot of Velocity E-Sports (remember them?) Re-branded them to Evil Genius's, and by only winning a single best of five to secure their spot in the LCS.

All while being a mediocre team.

Rhlax5 votes

It is not about skin color.. EG players can speak English while LMQ players cannot.

The player - fan interaction is pretty important in any sport.

Lstrike2 votes

LMQ players cant speak English.. So?

  1. This is not English debate competition. League of Legends in no way requires English proficiency to play.
  2. United States Immigration does not require English proficiency to acquire a business/H1 visa.
Rhlax3 votes

LMQ players cant speak English.. So?

Player - fan interaction.

The player - fan interaction is pretty important in any sport.

EDIT: it may not be a big problem now, but once you have multiple teams like LMQ in NA, then it will be very bad.

odessa1 votes

They are LEARNING to speak English. Sheesh, I really don't understand people like you that demand instant assimilation. It doesn't work that way. It take years for some people. Besides, many European countries have a long historical practice of English education, many Asiatic countries do not. But again, they are LEARNING. Get over it. When you don't look at this issue from all sides and admit certain facts, it does make you come off as a racist.

MajorPain91 votes

So they are "working on it". While nice and dandy, it does nothing for the current fan interaction. Nothing racist about wanting communication.

meatshieldjim1 votes

xiao we xiao's smile says a thousand words.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Re-branded them to Evil Genius's, and by only winning a single best of five to secure their spot in the LCS.

EG was 2 NA players at the start and is currently 3 NA players (Canada: InnoX, & Altec, USA: Pobelter), LMQ is the only 100% foreign team.

Earl Eulrich8 votes

Just get over it, in this time and age nationalities should be a concept of the past...just there to make administration easier, not to set people apart from each other.

Having talent from other Regions join in only enhances competition and makes everyone improve. It´s incredible how much better the NA-LCS has gotten this year due to finally having some real comeptition, and it would be a shame to deny this opportunity for growth...

LMQ pretty much came to NA risking everything, they have been a established team in the LPL already - while in NA they first had to qualify for the LCS to get their chance to then qualify for worlds. It takes a lot of courage to move to another Country and start anew, and I´m really glad it worked out for LMQ. They improved a lot in that challenge...and also challenged the established teams in NA to improve themselves along.

The only thing boarders do is to sepperate people, if humanity is lucky in a few hundred years we´ll finally get rid of them alltogether.

MrBuffington2 votes

I agree, I also want to add that I hear a lot of these complaints as an admission that NA is weaker than China. I think it's general consensus that Korea is the best, but next would probably be EU and NA, as I've heard from many casters/analysts/pros, etc. that China is actually weak compared to NA. (whatever source I heard this from was probably outdated or just wrong, China is strong). LMQ barely placed third in NA despite them being so heavily hyped. The only other NA team I've heard receiving similar hype is C9, and they've been crushing NA for much of the time they've been a team. Contrary to popular belief, LMQ actually came to NA to play vs. better teams in C9, TSM, etc.

12tales1 votes

China is actually weak compared to NA.

I have literally never heard this opinion expressed before. Watching EDG play, 'weak' is not a word that pops into my mind. 'Ungodly talented and coordinated,' maybe, but never 'weak.'

I will be astonished if any western team is able to take a set off of a chinese team at worlds. Maybe it could happen, but it'd be a hell of an upset.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

oh well, mechanics are godlike in CHina..but their makro-play is as bronze as it gets often times unfortunately. SO if they don´t go for the early aggression and outplay on a mechanical-style like last seasons worlds i think western teams will beat them.

12tales1 votes

That stereotype has been around for years, and it's nowhere near true. Watch LGD or EDG play and tell me they aren't at least on par with western teams.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

I watch a lot of LPL, and unfortunately teams just prove time over time again that they are most of the times not really playing to their winconditions. The top Chinese Teams (especially EDG and OMG) sure don´t do that much random baron throwing, but they still often win games just due some stall-till-they-throw-gameplay and not due to their crisp rotations.

They sure can beat any team, but not if they try to play for a lategame-mapcontrol playstyle.

12tales1 votes

They sure can beat any team, but not if they try to play for a lategame-mapcontrol playstyle.

I'm personally not too concerned about this possibility.

Regardless, the nice thing about worlds coming up is that we don't need to theorycraft this sorta thing. Let's cross our fingers for EDG and C9 meeting each other at some point.

MrBuffington1 votes

I'm just repeating what I've heard from some casters; I think China had a lot of their strongest players retire after their second place finish in Worlds, and were looking weaker as a result. Granted, OMG finished second in all stars, so if they were weaker, it didn't last long. Still, according to lolesports, the region stagnated after worlds, which may have influenced LMQs move.

MajorPain95 votes

The only thing boarders do is to sepperate people, if humanity is lucky in a few hundred years we´ll finally get rid of them alltogether.

Someone needs to grow up. You are rather naive to think that all of humanity can come together as one. Let's start the kum by ya song.

I am not denying having other talent from other regions is beneficial. In fact if you actually read the post you would see exactly that. What is toxic is if the current rules still stand next season, there is nothing to stop multiple better teams from doing the same. It would stop the growth of E-sports in NA rather quickly. This is the same reason Japan only allows 4 foreign players on a 25 man roster.

Trinityunicorn4 votes

Someone needs to grow up. You are rather naive to think that all of humanity can come together as one. Let's start the kum by ya song.

The people that have led us into greater ideas and higher ethical ways of living did see people as equal regardless of the boundaries and barriers others put up regarding differences. You might say they had some VERSION of the song playing internally, their outward actions reflected that. Just wanted to bring that up as perhaps its not such a bad thing.

In retrospect I have seen that coming together as one, but it is usually UNDER EXTREME TRADGEDIES when you see it happen. Its unfortunate that it takes something like the world trade center episode, or a tsunami, extreme devastation before we can look at each other, put aside our differences, and be kind.

What is toxic is if the current rules still stand next season, there is nothing to stop multiple better teams from doing the same.

To me what is "toxic" is the intentions of the move. If they're here to secure another slot for their home country/region that's toxic; trying to gain an unfair advantage. If they're here to represent this region, its innocent. We can't determine <pre judge> what the intent is. Whether or not we need rules to address the what if, I don't know. Just like my exaggerated example, if it gets big enough it will show itself.

So what to do, do you act now against a perceived injustice or wait and see?

MajorPain92 votes

In riots position I would leave this season alone, and then restrict teams next year to have a minimum of 3/5 players that played in that region in the previous two seasons.

Trinityunicorn3 votes

It is a gray area and an ethical question. This states it well:

First, ethics refers to well-founded standards of right and wrong that prescribe what humans ought to do, usually in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness, or specific virtues. - See more at: http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/whatisethics.html#sthash.QJvgPROb.dpuf

Secondly, ethics refers to the study and development of one's ethical standards. As mentioned above, feelings, laws, and social norms can deviate from what is ethical. So it is necessary to constantly examine one's standards to ensure that they are reasonable and well-founded. Ethics also means, then, the continuous effort of studying our own moral beliefs and our moral conduct, and** striving to ensure that we, and the institutions we help to shape, live up to standards that are reasonable and solidly-based**. - See more at: http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/whatisethics.html#sthash.QJvgPROb.dpuf

I don't think you've excluded anyone in your hypothesis. I do appreciate the way you supported it. Hope Riot reads this and gives it some thought.

MrBuffington1 votes

Which would mean TSM is going to need a new player too, lol

Curious, how would players play in a region for two seasons if they're not allowed to compete? Do they have to immigrate to just play Solo-q? Or are you saying that teams can only be composed of players who have been playing the game for two seasons? What if there's an NA born player who just picked up the game last year and has become NA's Faker (ie. a prodigy), would they not be able to compete?

MajorPain91 votes

Ya I have been thinking about these same reasonings all day. My only conclusion would be to remove the prior two seasons rule for it to be functional. NA would match Korea and China in the team conditions of 3/5 have to be permanent residences.

Worgslarg4 votes

I'm not bothered by the fact that LMQ is all asian. What bothers me is that they came, as a team to the NA LCS.

Teams competing in a country's LCS( or versions thereof) should only be able to be composed of citizens of that country.

When teams playing in the NA lcs do not have to be citizens of the USA, you get this debacle.

12tales5 votes

When teams playing in the NA lcs do not have to be citizens of the USA, you get this debacle.

Poor Canadians.

Obviously Singed1 votes

I hate to say this, but once you get into this whole debacle, then your effectively saying that TSM, EG, and CLG all should be dropped as well as they have foreign players.

Lets be honest, this is people just being pissy that another team that played the game according the rules provided and succeeded (to an extent).

Trinityunicorn4 votes

Lots of different issues come up but, here is a scene that is EXAGGERATED so you can see the result clearly and maybe even what causes people to be a bit upset about it. Its totally hypothetical and tbh if lmq Needs to get away from their country I don't mind them taking up residence here. If they want to compete as North Americans that's okay to.......however for them to keep representation of another country I think is probably wrong.

Here is why. What if you suddenly saw a world championship where ALL the regions had a Chinese team as representative of that region. Its not happening and I don't even think it will, but I do think that maybe it clearly shows why it raises some eyebrows here. Them coming as a whole team too muddies up the waters. Most anyone here were it an individual trying to get on an already established lcs na team would not mind. No one minds that several players forming the teams are from other countries.

People want to call it racist but is it in my context? If all the teams ended up being one nationality in the whole world competition would there be a world competition?

The Yankees or the Red Sox going over to Japan as an entire team and wiping the entire floor of the region. In fact it isn't allowed for the sheer reason that it would destroy other teams morale, ruin the growing trend of the sport, and would set baseball back immensely from gaining popularity.

I just hope that LMQ actually wants to represent this region of the world and be and stay affiliated with it rather than just here so they can get another slot or chance at the worlds. There is some pride for some or most of us if our region wins. Or maybe not.........maybe its just the best team wins.

I just hope that since it already is in effect that it is an honorable endeavor. I will say this I don't think the players want anything but to play and get paid I do believe that. If there is any other reasons behind it, I think they're just the pawns.

Who ever thought ethics would come into this eh?

Funster3 votes

Look... what is the point in having regional distinctions if they don't mean anything? (They clearly don't)

I'm not all that bothered by LMQ being here, although it does agitate me to think that they will be representing my region on the world stage when it is undeniable that they aren't North American to begin with. What really bothers me is the bigger picture, and what this means for the future of the game. I really don't care about League of Legends in a world where NA and EU become the rarely seen foreigners because Asian region teams have moved all over the world. I don't want another Starcraft.

NeroUS3 votes

I tend to think that there are two good solutions. First, would be to remove the regional system and make the whole competitive circuit an open circuit with tournaments in every region that anyone can play. Each tournament would have a point value, based upon the strength of the teams present, and the teams with the top 12 point values could compete in worlds or something like that.

Second, they could require 60-80% members of each team be people who had lived in that region for a minimum of 3 years, regardless of background. This would make it a real regional system rather than a system with an EU region, a Korea region, a Chinese region and a mixed region.

redniwediS2 votes

I haven't taken a position either side of the LMQ issue, but I have to say this is one of the only posts on it I've read that actually has a well thought out argument. Well done.

MajorPain93 votes

I made a post on GD of the same thread and another poster pointed out I was referencing a teams franchise. My main point being that the players of the team themselves being enticed over with a larger paycheck. Thats why Japan limits baseball teams to four foreign players on an active 25 man roster. Thanks for the support.

Angry Monster3 votes

this topic is not even close to legit.

Kobold2 votes

I'll post here what i posted in another thread

I have come up with two Ideas that can solve this issue but its up to Riot to even read this thread.

Part of both Ideas:

Have a rule requiring teams to consist of at most 40% (the 3/5 rule) non-regional players, Players can change regions if they are living in that region for a minimum of 30 days prior to the first date of the new season, and must remain in the region for 2/3 to 3/4 of the season (to accommodate vacation), this does not include Family emergencies (death, hospitalization, etc.) For emergencies the player should inform Riot ASAP so there is no confusion.

Idea One,

Have a separate server created that is called World Open, this server has no restrictions on a teams player nationality and has its own competition for placements.

Idea Two,

Create a new circuit called World Open, when a player creates a ranked team they are required to chose either World Open or their region, this will be the Queue they will compete in. The top 3 teams from each region's World Open queue will then do a challenger series to determine the picks for placements.

 A player can be on more than one ranked team as normal, HOWEVER if a player is on a ranked team that hits challenger for one of the two Queues the other Queues team will be unable to reach Challenger until the player either leaves the team on challenger or he leaves the non challenger team. A player can only be on one Challenger team at a time.

All in all we should follow the example of the Asian regions and limit the number of non-region players on the team to 2 players per team following that there needs to be a way for players to transfer regions and compete but it should be restricted and heavily regulated to avoid exploitation.

Angry Monster1 votes

So the problem is that legally NA can not have those rules. It is illegal for a company in the United States to discriminate against people for their home origins if they are here legally(some say illegally also but that is another issue).

What is NA? Well we do not have Spanish speaking players from mexico anymore. They have been encouraged to move to the Latin server where Spanish is the default langue. Mexico and all of central america is part of the north american content. NA is non existent location in the world. The USA does not recognize NA as a place in the world. Their is no government body that claims as law maker for NA either.

Eastern cultures are very xenophobic and have laws that prohibit outsiders. That is not a western concept and we have laws in America that prevent that kind of practice. Sorry, but we believe in the right to come and make ones life better.

Yes it is unfair that china put in place a law that 3/5 of an league team must be Chinese. We do not get to set the rules for other countries.

Do i want a bunch of players from other regions moving here to play league and trying to take NA server spots for worlds? No, but saying that riot needs to so something is not the solution(nor is it legal). The player base its self needs to step up.

Kobold3 votes

So the problem is that legally NA can not have those rules. It is illegal for a company in the United States to discriminate against people for their home origins if they are here legally(some say illegally also but that is another issue).

What is NA? Well we do not have Spanish speaking players from mexico anymore. They have been encouraged to move to the Latin server where Spanish is the default langue. Mexico and all of central america is part of the north american content. NA is non existent location in the world. The USA does not recognize NA as a place in the world. Their is no government body that claims as law maker for NA either.

Eastern cultures are very xenophobic and have laws that prohibit outsiders. That is not a western concept and we have laws in America that prevent that kind of practice. Sorry, but we believe in the right to come and make ones life better.

Yes it is unfair that china put in place a law that 3/5 of an league team must be Chinese. We do not get to set the rules for other countries.

Do i want a bunch of players from other regions moving here to play league and trying to take NA server spots for worlds? No, but saying that riot needs to so something is not the solution(nor is it legal). The player base its self needs to step up.

So i just read the "Federal Protections Against National Origin Discrimination" and you make a mistake, Tournaments are not regulated by this Rule as there is at least one sport (that i have found so far Other than the Olympics) that limits players of foreign nationality by forcing them to cut off ties to their previous country, LMQ did everything right to be eligible to play i.e. having a NA region Sponsor as having a foreign sponsor would mean they have ties to foreign countries/competing for them.

Angry Monster1 votes

League o legends in NA is not a tournament. Riot specifically mention that they are a league with a tournament at the end. That is different.

Tournaments are about qualifying and elimination.

Leagues are are about contentious play for a season.

They have different rules/laws.

Also i was talking about the bill of rights(14th amendment). Not the Federal Protections Against National Origin Discrimination.

MajorPain91 votes

Where in the 14th amendment does it come into effect in your argument?

meatshieldjim1 votes

The LCS needs to use the internet. It seems stupid that europe and the americas don't play all the time. And they should play everyday.

This is America NONE OF US BELONG HERE!!

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