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Competitive Ruling: Counter Logic Gaming

Riot··0 votes·63,261 views
Organization: Counter Logic Gaming Region: North America Date of Ruling: December 10, 2014 Subject: Penalty; Violation of LCS Ruleset

Background

We were recently notified of allegations that Counter Logic Gaming’s (CLG) management violated the LCS anti-tampering/poaching provision by soliciting William “Scarra” Li, who was at the time still under contract as a substitute player for Dignitas, to not re-sign with Dignitas in the offseason and instead sign with CLG. Attempting to recruit LCS Team Members still under contract with other LCS organizations is a serious offense, and we began a thorough investigation to determine if the accusations had merit. As a result of our investigation we’ve discovered the following: Shortly following the conclusion of the LCS 2014 NA Regionals in early September, Counter Logic Gaming’s owner, George “HotshotGG” Georgallidis, reached out to Li directly to express a desire to work with him. Li was still under contract with Dignitas at this time. Several weeks later, at least one Counter Logic Gaming team member was informed by team management that Scarra seemed interested in the organization and was their top choice to be coach. A team member then informed CLG management he was going to reach out to Li to discuss the possibility of Li coaching for CLG next season. This team member went on to have a conversation with Li regarding the possibility of him not re-signing with Dignitas during the offseason and instead becoming coach for CLG, a clear violation of the LCS anti-tampering/poaching rule. In mid-October, LCS officials were made aware of allegations that CLG had attempted to poach Li, and promptly reached out to CLG management to get their side of the story. Georgallidis repeatedly made false statements to LCS officials during the investigation, denying knowledge of any conversations between himself and Li or CLG team members while Li was under contract regarding Li becoming a coach for CLG. Multiple sources have since provided evidence confirming that Georgallidis personally approached Scarra and had knowledge of at least one other CLG team member having a conversation with Li about the possibility of him joining CLG before Li’s contract with Dignitas was up.

Relevant Rules

10.2.12 No Poaching or Tampering.
“No Team Member or Affiliate of a team may solicit, lure, or make an offer of employment to any Team Member who is signed to any LCS team, nor encourage any such Team Member to breach or otherwise terminate a contract with said LCS team. Violations of this rule shall be subject to penalties, at the discretion of LCS officials.”

Ruling

CLG has violated rule 10.2.12 of the LCS ruleset and will be subject to penalties.

Competition Penalties

Counter-Logic Gaming is:
  • Fined $10,000
  • Restricted from fielding William “Scarra” Li as an official LCS Team Member for the first 3 weeks of the 2015 LCS Spring Split
    • CLG will still be required to field a Head Coach for the first 3 weeks of the 2015 LCS Spring Split

Context

This is the most severe penalty we have ever levied on an LCS team. Here’s more context on our reasoning and how we reached this decision:
  • We consider poaching to be a serious violation which challenges the competitive integrity of the league - as such, the penalties we consider are severe. LCS teams are expected to respect not only the contracts that they’ve signed with their own players, but those that other organizations have signed with theirs. Tampering with players on opposing teams can incentivize extremely toxic dynamics (e.g. players deliberately playing poorly to “force” their organization to release them) and is an unacceptable form of gamesmanship. It also puts honest teams which comply with anti-tampering/poaching rules at a disadvantage in acquiring players.
  • There are a number of factors that we consider whenever we’re assessing a penalty for any violation of LCS rules. Intent and honesty on the part of a rule-breaking individual or group are important - likewise, if the offender or offenders are dishonest, we consider that when weighing our decision. We also look at who’s under investigation - for example, our judgment may be more severe for the ownership of an LCS organization whose understanding of the ruleset and potential consequences may be more sophisticated than that of an individual player.
  • In this case, the fact that CLG ownership made false statements to LCS officials and directly attempted to poach a player under contract to a rival LCS organization has been considered an aggravating factor in assessing the penalty.
  • In this case, where it wasn’t one player but the ownership of an entire LCS organization that engaged in poaching, a fine alone is not a sufficient penalty. We want our penalties to help avoid similar situations in the future, and a fine alone will not effectively deter determined organizations from attempting to poach players.
  • Limiting the value of CLG’s ill-gotten acquisition by restricting its ability to field Li as an LCS Team Member for the first three weeks of the LCS is a more effective penalty than simply ramping the fine amount up further.
  • Under LCS rules, a team may negotiate with a player under contract with another team if they obtain permission from that player’s organization. In this case, if CLG had requested and received permission from Dignitas to speak with Li prior to their talks, there would have been no issue. Teams may also simply wait until a player’s contract is up (in this case, Li’s contract was up in late October) to recruit a player. CLG chose to do neither, which has led to this investigation and outcome.
Our decision in this investigation relied heavily on evidence and firsthand testimony provided to us by sources who requested anonymity because of their close relationship with the parties at the center of this investigation. While we generally strive for transparency in our competitive rulings, we also highly value protecting sources who come forward to offer evidence to LCS officials despite the risk of potential backlash if their identity is made public. We understand that this explanation is not as satisfying as full public disclosure of all of the evidence which led to our ruling, but doing so would pose an unacceptable risk to the anonymity of the sources who came forward to speak with us. This ruling reflects our desire to send a clear signal that poaching is unacceptable in the LCS, as is deliberately making false statements to LCS officials.

93 Comments

Gardevoir Hentai35 votes

Good. Poaching is bullshit, but lying about breaking rules is, in my opinion, the real offense here. HotShot should have just told the truth, and he would definitely have saved himself and his team a large amount of money. Remember, Bjergsen was only fined $2,000 for poaching because he cooperated with Riot and was honest about it.

Ayfo15 votes

Yes, he should have told the truth, but as far as poaching is concerned; it **can **make "players deliberately playing poorly to “force” their organization to release them" but at the same time, it creates an environment where LCS players aren't able to look to their future at all, in an already volatile career

It means that if players want to look for a new team, they aren't allowed to talk to anyone until their contract is already up, which puts them in a situation like Amazing is in: he left hoping to get picked up by a different team, and so far still doesn't have one...had he known he wasn't going to be employed right now, he might not have left TSM, and he would still have a job

Gardevoir Hentai3 votes

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that players are free to approach other teams while still under contract, and I know that teams are able to approach players by going through the organization that currently holds their contract. Yes, this makes it harder for players to get offers from other teams while they're contracted by one specific team, but it is still possible for a player to "explore" options. Scarra could have asked HotShotGG or someone else on CLG whether they were looking for a coach if he really wanted to switch teams. As long as no one on CLG approached Scarra and explicitly offered him a job or asked him to end his contract with Dignitas, it wouldn't have broken any rules, but CLG did and they are being punished for it. Rules are rules.

Amazing probably should have done more research before leaving TSM, if that was really his reasoning. He's completely free to ask other teams whether they expect to have open positions at the end of the season, unless that is specifically forbidden by his contract with TSM--which has little to do with Riot.

Cookies Morgana4 votes

That's just it, though, Scarra did approach Hotshot.

Hotshot just lied about it because he was scared of the consequences and denied any interaction between them. Now, I'm not saying Scarra walked straight up to Hotshot and told him that he wanted to coach for his team like a female in a dating sim, but what I am saying is that 10,000 is way too steep of a fine for CLG right now, and regardless of how badly George handled the situation, which, yes, he did. This isn't helping the eSports scene, and it's certainly not helping League of Legends.

For better or for worse, CLG has one of the most hardcore of hardcore-diehard communities out there. I guarantee you that they're going to come out positive through additional donations, and this is especially true if the story ends at Hotshot and Scarra's statements, because I'm going to be honest, it doesn't reflect good on Riot at all.

Source for my blabbering crazy-talk: http://clgaming.net/news/626-official-statement-re-competitive-ruling-december-10-2014

xSaucekay1 votes

fully disagree. I feel that this shows how much eSports have advanced. In the beginning I'm sure CLG could have gotten away with that. But now, because of how many people watch, and how much it has grown the rules have gotten more finite in that when you break the rules, you will be punished. This set an example for future teams that want to poach other players. I think that what Riot Games did was not only the right thing to do, but also smart. I'm that in the future no team will attempt this without accepting the consequences prior.

Siyther1 votes

having to wait til a contract is up to even discuss other options is crap.

The Grandmaster17 votes

Good for the LCS. I am completely behind this decision. While it may seem like a harsh decision, it cannot be denied that he intentionally broke these rules. More importantly, I'm glad that no players were punished for their owner's decisions, and that they will remain able to play.

Jet Kusanagi14 votes

It's right there in the rules. Poaching is not allowed. CLG could have waited until Scarra's contract was up OR go directly to Dignitas to get Scarra but they did neither.

The Raccoon10 votes

Holy hell. 10,000 is definitely sending the right kind of message.

Twilight Spurk1e3 votes

10k to someone who makes 1-10k+ a day isnt much

FederalSuper4210 votes

You think Hotshot makes 10k a day? Holy crap what kind of things are you smoking?

PimpUnicorn9 votes

Remember when game competitions were referee'd by common sense and not draconian legal dogma with ridiculous fines? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Amythist19 votes

remember when game competitions were not multi-million dollar affairs involving numerous sponsorship deals and employment contracts? yeah those are not what is being dealt with here

Pee Pee ButtHead8 votes

[deleted]

GROMMI3 votes

While I wouldn't use the term "Nazi", I can say that placing harsh sanctions, though getting the message across, this one specifically feels overly forced. What happens when your celebrity professionals get sick of League and move on to other games?

Then again, I suppose their income is League, so I can't say that they'll be able to move on..

Tanyn4 votes

They're professional gamers... they don't have degrees, etc. They'll either play in the LCS on a team or they'll go back to school or maybe stream and hope they get viewers. The real issue isn't the team members though, it's the management. CLG doesn't seem to grasp this is a business now and has rules implemented to keep it a fair business.

Boinks8 votes

So... Alliance needs to get this memo... I'd love to see that whole Rekkles fiasco turn into a 25K expenditure and no ADC for the first three weeks..

jigg9 votes

The salt is real.

Boinks2 votes

I honestly could care less about the exodus of judas from fnatic.. But how it occurred was clearly outside of the ruleset. Rekkles will have a rude awakening this season when he no longer has a god tier support to carry him.

fpython12 votes

Um no. You can't approach a player without the approval of their organization. Alliance contacted Fnatic after Rekkles showed interest in leaving the organization for ALL, and so Fnatic sold his contract. That's all well within the ruleset. I'm the biggest FNC fan I know, and while I'm hurting from losing him as well as Peke/Cyanide, I'm not going to try and claim the Rekkles deal was anything but an example of how an organization SHOULD handle trades, because that's exactly what it was.

Mildturtl14 votes

Alliance paid for the contract, though. Fnatic set a price, and Alliance paid it.

Jeclub7 votes

Pope Allen has spoken, and his words shall be.

Forerunnerr6 votes

I'm a CLG fan, but even I can't hate on this decision. I don't see any room for dispute, these penalties are deserved and, if anything, should just promote better business from all LCS participants in the future. I like the team and all, but actions like this are, disappointing, to put it nicely. I like that Scarra is CLG's coach and gets to work with some of my favorite LCS players, but the means to which he came aboard are not good mojo....

Gromplestiltskin5 votes

Good show, CLG! I used to care but now I just stop in to see where you'll shoot yourselves next. Foot? Hand? No, this time we'll try the spleen. Let's see if we can do some real damage!

Twilight Spurk1e4 votes

10k isnt much, just shows you how much of a liar people are lying to officials.

A Pig that flys3 votes

How about you try forking over 10K yourself? Just because the players are under contract (which, mind you, is near-equivalent to a minimum wage job) and stream doesn't mean they have 10K on hand at all times. Sure, streaming brings in big money, but 10K is looking at nearly a month's worth of streaming money gone

RansSac4 votes

If they are going after CLG then they should look into Alliance and Rekkles just saying i think something is fishy there too. Not that I really care and i do feel that some of these very rules that are meant to help the integrity of the game actually do more harm than good, but there's my 2 cents. thank you

Brewminator2 votes

I thought about that too, but as far as I understand, the difference in that situation was that Rekkles was the one who approached Alliance - as opposed to Alliance approaching him. At least, that's what I think happened - if I'm wrong, then pls ignore me :)

Lovercake9 votes

I believe Alliance approached Fnatic first and could only talk to Rekkles through Fnatic, which made the negotiations last so long because Fnatic wanted to keep Rekkles. But since they approached the organisation first, it's fine.

Mildturtl5 votes

Alliance bought out Rekkles's contract. It was a fair trade, and both parties agreed upon the transaction made. What CLG did was poaching, what Alliance did was contact the business side of Fnatic, and conducted a business transaction. The price was set by Fnatic, and Alliance agreed on the price.

Qutse4 votes

The no poaching rule shouldn't apply to substitutes:

  1. Riot's statement about how poaching is bad didn't involve any description of how it applied to substitutes. Riot has not yet made any convincing statement on how being able to approach a substitute would hurt the integrity of the LCS.
  2. It gives teams undo control over a player that they themselves are unwilling to evaluate to a starting position, and may chill players desire to fill a substitute role.
  3. The community that LCS is designed to entertain and served is not well served by a no poaching rule on substitutes. If there is a team that can improve their starting line up by acquiring someone not actively playing in the LCS (be it even a substitute) than the entire organization of the LCS is improved by allowing that to happen.
Clow09051 votes

Substitutes are still part of the team therefore still in contract. As long as you are in any team whether its sub or coach or starting lineup, you are still in a contract.

Qutse2 votes

That undermines my point 3, but not 1 and 2.

Murman3 votes

Unfortunate.

Mateus MD3 votes

goddam it George, I wanted tsm to fall more than I do for clg, but you man just sinking this ship!

Calolo Clova2 votes

Glad to see that the LCS is taking some serious action. Even though CLG is one of my favourite teams, they still needed a punishment. Not just to make them know they're naughty, but also to avoid something like this happening in the future whether it was from them or any other team in the LCS.

Go League

Fletcher Night2 votes

Our decision in this investigation relied heavily on evidence and firsthand testimony provided to us by sources who requested anonymity because of their close relationship with the parties at the center of this investigation.

Legit question: If part of your investigation relied heavily on firsthand testimony, doesn't that just turn into a "he said, she said" kind of thing. Without seeing any of the evidence this seems kind of harsh.

Trusting you though Riot <3

Clow09051 votes

What they stated was "relied heavily on EVIDENCE AND FIRSTHAND TESTIMONY". You left the EVIDENCE part lol. I can probably guess that by evidence, they mean chat logs since they most likely have records of it somewhere.

vscAloha2 votes

Is Scarra in any trouble? I don't even know if he should be.

Bramble Berry2 votes

Waiting on Rekkless to get fined. He obviously contacted Alliance prior to his contract ending, him not getting fined, and Alliance by association, would be dumb.

A Pig that flys3 votes

If he contacted Alliance then there's no problem there. This dispute is simply because CLG contacted Scarra illegally. If Rekkless contacted Alliance then there is no rule breaking, and it's simply Rekkless looking into other teams. That and Alliance contacted FNatic before making any big talks about Rekkless, which lead to a contract buy-out

Bramble Berry1 votes

"If he contacted Alliance" so him violating his contract prior to being bought out isn't important? That just validates his behavior.

Labatt2 votes

This is honestly a bit stupid. I HATE CLG but I still think this is a bit ridiculous. If a team can't maintain a good relationship or even pay someone what they want why shouldn't someone be able to offer them what they want? It happens ALL THE TIME in business. this is dumb.

Clow09052 votes

Because they are still under contract. Hotshot's approach was wrong because they offered the player not the organization. This is clearly stated in the rule.

10.2.12 No Poaching or Tampering.

“No Team Member or Affiliate of a team may solicit, lure, or make an offer of employment to any Team MEMBER who is signed to any LCS team, nor encourage any such Team MEMBER to breach or otherwise terminate a contract with said LCS team. Violations of this rule shall be subject to penalties, at the discretion of LCS officials.”

I'd have to agree that it happens all the time, but they do it LEGALLY.

TrollFan012 votes

Wow that's steep but at least none of the CLG players are going to be fined for it.

Ub3rman2 votes

He was just a sub-player, everyone knows that the only reason he was still on the Dig roster at all was borderline sentimental. xD I don't see why anyone cares about this. If anything Dig should be happy they don't have to pay someone for nothing anymore. Not hating on Scarra at all, just saying his time with Dig was over with and everyone saw the transfer to CLG coming, I don't see why it's a big deal AT ALL.

S H A Y C 01 votes

Recruiters talk to pro football players all the time when they are nearing the end of a contract...i dont see the difference.

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