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World Championships 2014 Blue Side Win Rate

AncientPhoenix··4 votes·2,349 views

After watching the Cloud 9 vs. Najin Shield rematch, I came to the realization that North America's greatest chance of getting out of the Quarterfinals successfully died on a coin flip. Knowing that Cloud 9 suffers while not on blue side, due to Hai's champion pool being easier to attack when C9 is on red side, I found it odd that C9 should be the only team to suffer from such a situation. So, I looked at the blue side vs. red side win rate throughout the entirety of the group stages. First, I found that, out of 50 games played during the group stage, blue side won 33 times. That's a 66% win rate for all of group stages. But, let's just focus on perhaps the most even group in terms of skill: Group D. Group D was the only group to have its first seed drop 2 games over the course of the group and, even though KaBum was at a clear disadvantage, Najin Shield, Alliance, and Cloud Nine are all relatively equal. In Group D, blue side won 11 out of 13 games played (an 85% win rate). If you disregard KaBum as underdogs, blue side wins all 7 games. Another interesting thing to note is that every major upset, bar one, that happened over the course of the group stage happened when the team that was counted out of the running was playing on blue side. AHQ beat EDG on blue side. TSM beat Royal on blue side. SK beat TSM on blue side. TPA beat SK on blue side (this one's a little shaky since SK still wasn't playing with their regular roster at the time, but since TPA only won one game I counted it). KBM beat ALL on blue side. The only upset that didn't happen on blue side was Fnatic beating Samsung Blue. However, Fnatic is a bit of an odd case. If you look at their win rate in groups, they won 0 out of 3 games on blue side and 2 out of 3 games on red side. So, I guess I'll finally get to the point. I know that the whole "Blue-Side" controversy has been around for a while, but I don't necessarily agree with the standard support that's given for it. Most people complain about the mirrored map being chosen over a symmetric one, or the camera perspective. I, however, believe that this disparity (especially in competitive matches) comes from the advantage that having the first pick gives you. For almost every team, having first pick frees you up to target-ban opposing players or ban champions that your team is simply uncomfortable with. Meanwhile, the opposing team is forced to ban whatever they feel are the strongest champions that they absolutely can't let their opponents have, lest they give their opponents an immense advantage. First move advantage has always been a big question in turn-based competitive games. If you look at Chess, White has a 55% win rate at the tournament level. The only reason that this disparity isn't larger is because the person playing Black usually knows that they're at a disadvantage and start from the beginning with the intention of causing a stalemate. In Go, perhaps the most balanced game of all time, there have been professional players that were utterly convinced that having the first move in a match would guarantee them the victory. All of this leaves a few questions to be asked. Firstly, how can we go about balancing champion select to lessen the impact of first move advantage? Secondly, we can see that some teams like Fnatic have an opposite effect on the side win rate. Why is it that these teams seem to experience a similar phenomenon, only in reverse? I don't have the answers to these questions, so the point of making this is to see what other people thought about these two big question marks.

13 Comments

RoyaiChaos3 votes

I win more on purple side than on blue side.... Maybe it just feels that way, but most of my stomps are on purple side, and everytime I get stomped is on the blue side.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

first, it's a small sample size. As valid as arguments are, This small of a sample is never enough.

That said, all of the arguments are likely valid. Dragon can be taken quickly before a team can react whereas Baron takes more time. Blue has easier access to Baron and hence gains an advantage from that. More importantly though, to your topic of first pick. The way teams play, you're right. There's a reason fnatic is an exception though, and I would argue it is because other teams ban WRONG. They have all of this skill and experience with the game and never take advantage of LAST BAN. Last ban is much more valuable than first pick.

To illustrate, suppose after the first 3 bans there are 4 'power champions' left available. What almost always seems to happen is purple's second ban is used on one of the 4, then blue bans one, then purple bans another leaving blue with the last power pick (blue also got to use their first 2 bans on comfort picks as opposed to 1 for purple). What purple should be doing is taking a second comfort ban, if blue bans power then purple takes a third comfort ban and if blue does a third comfort purple does power. In either case here, purple gets 2 out of 3 power picks (and also gets to counter whatever non power picks blue chooses next). The beautiful thing is it doesn't need to be 4 power picks available, at any number of power picks purple can guarantee they get at least half of them. so unless there are huge discrepancies in between each power pick, the last ban advantage is larger than the first pick advantage. However I never see any team (except possibly fnatic) take advantage of this.

AncientPhoenix2 votes

That's an interesting point of view. I've always thought of red side's big advantage as the last counter-pick, which can be used to guarantee a winning matchup in a single lane or to pull out a surprise pick. The problem with the last counter-pick in a competitive match is that it relies on two things. First, actually knowing a champion that you can use as a counter. Second, managing to hide a pick from the opposing team's analysts/scouts. But, strategic use of bans to guarantee a higher percentage of power picks is also possible. Especially with the ability to influence essentially which champion goes unbanned by playing your last ban well.

As to the small sample size point, yes. I didn't do too much digging. If I wanted to, I probably could've looked at each of the major teams' records across the season to see any interesting phenomena like this. But, I just noticed a pattern in the worlds groups and decided to look just a bit closer. I actually think pick and ban is a very interesting part of the game. Almost like a card game, where timing and hiding information mean a great deal.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I agree entirely. I'm also fairly certain that it could easily be shown that blue side has a better win rate. see the post claiming 55%, and I've also heard in ranked purple is purposely matched to have higher mmr. The sample size issue could likely be dealt with.

The point with zilean/alistar being super OP right now though (also a different part here), red should not be the team to ban both. Red should never ban either until last ban, and only ban one if blue banned the other. In this way the 2 way OP picks are split equally and purple gets first pick of the remaining champs and last pick to counter or play a surprise

simply put, I'd prefer last ban over first pick. I really think blue just has a bigger advantage over Baron too though, and that can make a huge difference compared to purples advantage on Dragon.

12tales1 votes

The point with zilean/alistar being super OP right now though (also a different part here), red should not be the team to ban both. Red should never ban either until last ban, and only ban one if blue banned the other. In this way the 2 way OP picks are split equally and purple gets first pick of the remaining champs

I'm gonna use the most recent competitive game (NWS vs. C9 tiebreaker) as an example here, because I've got the pick/ban phase right in front of me.


So, in this game, Shield had blue side and C9 had red side. The first four bans target comfort picks, on both side - Shield bans Rumble and Syndra, while C9 bans Thresh and Ryze. Which is essentially what you suggest doing as red side - they're not banning anything that Shield might eventually ban themselves, and they're hitting champs that Gorilla and Save have proven they can carry games on. So far so good.

For their third ban, Shield bans Alistar.

What does C9 do in this situation? Maokai, Zilean and Zed are all available, and are all plausible first picks. However, Shield has already banned Rumble, who's considered the premier counterpick to Maokai at the moment - if C9 gives Maokai away, they won't have a good answer for it available. Because of this, C9 is forced to ban Maokai.

Shield first picks Zilean.

Because Shield has Zilean, C9 can no longer pick Zed, who's the highest priority champions still available and probably Hai's best champion. They end up taking Nidalee and Corki, both highly contested picks between them and Shield, but in so doing are forced to give Zed away to Ggoong, alongside Lee Sin for Watch - arguably their best champions.


This an example where, even tho C9 followed your school of thought and waited to ban any obviously OP champions, Shield was able to use the first pick advantage of blue side to get an extremely favorable draft, securing both of the highest priority champions on the table and denying C9 their best champions. Because of the specific champions that are OP right now and the interactions that they have with one another, blue side can often utilize first pick to secure multiple high priority champions, even tho theorycrafting maintains that red side should be able to get at least two OPs in the first rotation.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

So I take it from your post, we have the following situation: alistar, zilean, large difference down to maokai, large difference (due to the Rumble ban) down to zed, then relatively even among corki, nidalee, and Lee sin. shield bans alistar.

Also note the main problems are: maokai gains power after the alistar ban making him as threatening as zilean, and zilean counters zed mid Lane but does not need to be played mid Lane (thereby allowing shield to take zed while c9 cannot). I'll first point out the problem is that both zilean and alistar are EXCEPTIONAL picks in 2 roles, meaning both champions should really be nerfed drastically in one role.

anyways, to the point of what c9 should have done: if they value zilean over maokai still, then ban nidalee or zed. This gives maokai even greater value by taking away a top Lane option or making zilean mid Lane counter to zed not allowing shield to secure both, and reduces the difference between zilean and maokai basically making it a 1 for 1 trade whoever is taken. If maokai has higher value, either do a third comfort ban or ban corki/Lee sin. I'll trust you can figure out the Draft in the first two cases (shield gets zilean, c9 gets maokai and first pick of the remainder, or shield takes maokai and c9 gets zilean and first pick of the remainder).

I'll consider maokai to be more highly valued since he received the ban. so c9 bans corki. shield first picks maokai, c9 gets zilean and Lee sin. shield can't take zed (for the same reason c9 couldn't) and also can't take nidalee since they already have maokai. so shield must take 2 comfort picks here, and c9 gets both nidalee and zed for picks 3 and 4. Of 7 total power picks (3 super OP and 4 good), one of each is banned, shield gets maokai, c9 gets the other 4 (one of which is super OP). It clearly looks like c9 came out waaaaaay ahead unless maokai is worth more than zilean+Lee+zed+nidalee (with a Lane swap, I doubt that). Any argument that shield picks zed simply says c9 was mistaken in not picking zed in to zilean (which means nothing was wrong with my ban argument). To say shield first picks zilean despite maokai being available means c9 prioritized the wrong ban (hint: they did) as banning maokai took him away from them and not from their opponent. If maokai is really worth so much after the Rumble ban, then I would consider the Rumble ban a power ban as well, and therefore shield opened with a power ban and c9 should have banned maokai earlier (hint: he isn't worth so much, especially when they can Lane swap).

Cloud 9 lost the banning phase, not because they didn't get first pick but because they banned poorly and picked poorly. banning maokai last was a terrible decision - if he became so powerful after the Rumble ban he should have been banned earlier, and if he was only a bit better than zilean then c9 either could have gotten 3 second Tier power picks plus zilean against shield only getting maokai (as in my scenario above) or shield picks zilean seeing this and c9 takes maokai + Lee sin, losing nidalee plus zed (so basically c9 trades nidalee for maokai, loses corki for nothing but also steals Lee sin from shield). Any case puts c9 ahead arguably, but definitely way better off than what actually happened.

Shockforce1 votes

Honestly, it is fine.

The only issue would be tiebreaker matches where it is actually best to do a blind pick skill match-up.

Worgslarg1 votes

Quite simple. Purple team now gets first ban, blue last ban goes straight into first pick.

NeroUS1 votes

There have been a number of articles on Blue v Purple;

  • Over Soloque all levels Blue enjoys a 55% win-rate
  • Purple tends to enjoy an early gold advantage/more dragons
Wullf1 votes

That is very interesting and deserves at least some digging and answering.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

No doubt the pick&ban-pahse could need some major rework - though I think it´s alright to expect that someone that wants to win the world championship should be able to play more than just a few champs flawlessly. And C9 just screwed their second rotation...they could have gotten the Zed for Hai but prioritized Nid over it...a pick that wouldn´t have been contested most likely.

And it mostly stems from a major balancing-problem of the worlds-patch, as alistar absolutely has to be banned by purple side in every match..making pick&bans highly predictable for the blue team and favouring the first-pick as you can almost everytime make sure one of the ops you totally want will find the way through pick&bans.

12tales1 votes

Blue Side advantage is particularly egregious right now because both Zilean and Alistar are ridiculously powerful first picks - it's similar to the dynamic that existed back in the Spring Split of LCS, when Kassadin and Elise basically occupied Red Side's ban slots every game. It's worth mentioning, however, that this is very much meta dependent - in patches where champion balance is much more evenly distributed among the top champions, it's significantly easier for red side to leave P&B with an advantage, thanks to getting 2/3 OPs in the first rotation or counterpicking a solo lane.

That said, even disregarding pick and bans, the advantage that blue side holds on vision control around baron is pretty huge, and red side's coresponding advantage over dragon doesn't really balance it out that effectively.

NeroUS1 votes

I want to point out that it is not just about pick and ban since it is very much a general phenomena in soloque, even at low elo. That's why Riot places a higher MMR team on purple side than they do on blue side, even this doesn't balance it out completely, though.

I think the articles convincingly demonstrate (notably the last) that its about map perspective rather than picks/bans.

There are a lot of good articles on it:

http://team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/League-of-Legends/4902/Purple-vs.-Blue-Why-Blue-Team-Wins

  • This one suggests it is related to how players perceive their visual space

http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/tuck-esports-inquirer/21639-blue-side-vs-purple-inside-the-startling-numbers

  • Interview with Krepo that says its related to bans/dragon/golems; however, this is hard to believe since it is at all elo levels not just pro

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-red-blue-statistics-win-rate/

  • Best analysis of gold and dragons; shows that red side normally gets ahead in gold in the early game but then blue side wins
  • This article also says that Red side tends to get more priority champion picks than blue, which further undermines the idea that it is about pick/ban

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