Boards›Dev Corner

Post MSI Gameplay Improvements

RiotRiot Scruffy·4/12/2019, 4:58:22 PM·1 votes·156,740 views

Hey all, Scruffy here giving an early look at some of the gameplay changes we’re planning for patches 9.9 and 9.10. While we still have no plans for a formal midseason patch (big disruptive changes that reshape the way you play League), we'll have a higher than usual amount of changes like the recent Urgot work so these patches will be heftier than what you've seen in the first half of 2019.

Systems Changes

  • Early Jungle Lane Dependence - This one is here because we think we can target a common jungler pain point without a big amount of change. Philosophically we like for junglers to participate in the wider game and have to take risks to succeed, but we also want to solve a frustration point that early fights are too important and junglers feel overly reliant on laner rotations to succeed. We’re testing changes around scuttle mechanics and possibly other tactics to see if we can create a less pressured level 2 fight-or-lose situation.
  • Inspiration overuse as secondary - Inspiration is stifling a lot of other cool secondary rune tree options by bringing too much value. We are exploring both nerfs there and also buffs to the other tree minor runes to make them have more splash appeal.
  • Hunter’s Potion - This item is a tempting option that currently is a trap because it’s weak and additionally doesn’t really add a lot of interest beyond a ton of sustain. We’re experimenting with some small reworks to make this usable and fun but if we can’t find any compelling spaces we’ll remove this item altogether.
  • Aftershock - Pretty simple goals here to reduce the power of this rune on champs not building tanky while keeping it good on tanks and bruisers.

Champion Changes

  • Blitzcrank - We'll be shipping the quality of life improvements that you saw on PBE recently: making Blitz's passive shield more consistent, removing the randomness from R's passive, and giving Blitz a bit more payoff for auto attacking
  • Tahm Kench - The goal here is to make TK less of an action stopper in very high elo and pro while also making him a playable support pick for the average player. Our current direction makes TK slow when devouring an ally (like when he devours an enemy) to pull a bit of power out of coordinated saves. To compensate we’re buffing his Q slow and making devour -> spit minions cost less so that he can use it more
  • Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact.
  • Aatrox - He still has been too hard to counter at high level and pro play which really hurts his playability for normal players. Our current changes make his ult revive only activate if he gets a takedown while his ult is active to remove his reliable ability to deny his own death. To compensate we’re buffing his baseline stats and exploring some other spicy additions.

As usual, these are all work in progress so we may change or even not ship some of these ideas if they don’t come together well. Thanks for playing with us and I’m looking forward to your feedback and ideas.

Scruffy

https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/9.2.1/img/champion/Sion.png

223 Comments

Jeddy0174/12/2019, 5:08:07 PM45 votes

Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact.

[sg-kiko] nice.

Dannar Hetoshi4/12/2019, 7:13:54 PM41 votes

TL-DR BELOW.

Tahm Kench's Q slow and W cost on minions are both in good spots. Putting more power into those will do nothing for his support WR and give him more power in the top lane.

Keep nerfing W targeting coordinated play (there was a proposed change that W would auto-spit allies if Tahm takes unshielded damage, and that is a much better change in my opinion than the self-slow)

If you want to fix his support win rate, you need to revert E nerfs, and HP nerf (now that Targons has been nerfed to Oblivion).

Tahm is a warden like Braum, Taric, Galio (all played bot lane).

However all of those champions have something that Tahm does not:

Damage Reduction or Resistance amplifications, or both.

Taric: Bastion Braum: Stand Behind Me, Unbreakable Galio: Shield of Durand

Of these three, only Braum has the same base HP as Tahm Kench, and Braum's passive synergizes much better with ADCs than Tahm's passive. We won't even get into the fact that both Braum and Galio have a Dash built in their abilities (not counting ultimates).

I'm not saying Tahm should get Resistances on his E, or damage Reduction like Braum. Don't get me wrong.

I like that Tahm is literally an HP tank rather than an armor stat like Taric/Braum/Galio. But a lot of HP Nerfs in runes, items and combined with nerfs to his E have had zero effect on him in pro play, but are major Nerfs to his solo q play.

TL-DR: Buff E. Nerf W (targeting coordinated play, as above). Tahm is an HP tank, yet has LESS HP than every other warden, and doesn't gain bonus resistances through abilities. Give him his HP sustain back through his E.

cars3n4/12/2019, 5:10:49 PM35 votes

LETS GO Zac

Salvor Hardın4/12/2019, 5:05:48 PM16 votes

I would like to congratulate you on these decisions, I think they are very wise, and I would like that in the near future, make more of those kinds of changes to specific champions!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Tin Obliterates4/12/2019, 6:50:42 PM15 votes

Zac YES YES YES

beany4/12/2019, 5:06:19 PM12 votes

Will galio see some work? I get the feeling you guys are somehow okay with him being high priority in support but not in mid, where he was designed to play in, given the silence after acknowledging the most recent nerfs were overboard. Can we see some adjustment for mid galio while bringing down support galio especially since aftershock changes will negatively impact him?

I'm curious to see how zac's ult will function considering one of the initial rationale for changing it was that it was functionally too similar to wukong's cyclone, who himself is getting some work, though i doubt wukong's ult will be significantly altered.

DamSon3694/12/2019, 5:08:07 PM11 votes

I am worried about Zac possible ult revert. I like current ult because it's like Orianna's ult: it brings enemies together for some spicy combos. Old ult was too chaotic in my opinion, tossing enemies around the battlefield like there is no tomorrow.

Evhel4/12/2019, 7:50:21 PM9 votes

Don't know about Tahm slow. You pick him to W allies. That's it. If you nerf it more you just don't have a point in picking him at all. He IS an action stopper. Leave him be.

TheSilentShane4/12/2019, 5:14:45 PM9 votes

So what happened to the Ult change you guys experimented with on Aatrox briefly on the PBR? Why wasn't it implemented and why does it seem that it's just been completely dropped as a possibility? The idea of rampaging around with your Q during your ult duration really made him feel like a "World Ender". Right now Aatrox 's ult feels very clunky and doesn't really offer a lot of benefits outside of the revive, which is a mechanic that seems like it's getting nerfed. I like the idea that you have to "work" for the revive like you did with old Aatrox , rather than just clicking a button and getting it automatically, but I feel like his ult is just gonna feel even less useful without some extra something to it. Any thoughts on maybe making it usable during his other abilities so it fits more reliably into his combos?

Psyfist4/12/2019, 5:32:29 PM8 votes

Did you guys consider any changes to Zac's Q as well? I think the new one is great, but if it worked more like Pyke's Q (having 2 parts) then it might help his ability to lane again just to have some reliable poke.

Deep Terror Nami4/12/2019, 6:02:26 PM8 votes

How about for Hunter's Potion, it just upgrades from the Refillable Potion automatically after a certain level or at killing a certain amount of Large Monsters?

Are you guys actually happy with your supposed "temporary" fixes to Spellthief's? It hurts actual Support because non-Supports used it. You keep doing this to them and give the role the lowest priority for real changes.

Ronin Tamos4/13/2019, 5:15:59 PM7 votes

Tahm Kench will always have the problem of being "anti-fun", non action, non-highlight, omg he ruined my youtube moment. He is literally the tanky version of Soraka. And you guys fail to understand that there is a necessity for these kind of protective champions. That league needs champions who are not all about captivating the audience of 12-year old clickbait fortnite players. That sometimes league needs not only explosions and damage but also tactics and alternative play styles. But doomed may be the people who ask of your average brained player to focuse a raka or poke a tahm kench instead of always going for the adc.

You managed to keep soraka in the game despite the hater boner of the community for champions who require them to actually use their brain for once in a while and re think their strategies. I sincerily hope you manage to do the same with tahm in the support role, but the proposed changes are disappointing me. Nothing new from Riot on this side tbh.

DONT REVERT ZAC 4/12/2019, 8:17:07 PM7 votes

Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact.

I swear if you revert this champion I'm gonna quit league, because this champion is the only fun thing left in this miserable game.

I'm a Zac main since season 3, currently diamond 1 and the old version of Zac was completely useless. Here is why: -His old Q barely managed to do 50 dmg and it didn't even slow that much. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER USING THIS USELESS SPELL IN TEAMFIGHTS. -You could do some nice things with Zac's old version of his ultimate, like flash behind an enemy and knock him into your team, but there was only one problem - YOU WERE JUMPING LIKE AND IDIOT FOR 4 SECONDS, UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING DURING THAT TIME, EXCEPT SPAMMING "W" BRAINLESSLY. On top of that you can do the same thing with Zac's new version of his ultimate, but now you are able to do more than just pressing after casting ult "W".

The current version of Zac is better than the old one. Here is why: -you can create so much more pressure on the bottom side of the map after lvl 6 because of the easy double kill, if the enemies have no flashes. You can even dive if you know that the enemy jungler is not near to stop you. -now i want you to compare the efficiency of the new "Q" compared to the old one. With the new one you can stun 2 targets together, knock them up and slow them and have an easy E after that. As i said, with the old one you could barely slow them and the range was so short as well. -With his current ult you can do MASSIVE comebacks. Let's say that u are losing early, but you scale better than the enemy team. And you have Zac. If Zac lands a 3-5 man ult, that's it. In high elo the game would already be over. I don't remember being able to do the same thing with the old one, except to jump 4 times like an idiot in the middle of the teamfight. There is no reason Zac's ult should be reverted. And it's obvious, that the people, who want a revert, can't really play the game :)

Sharpest glasses4/12/2019, 6:54:33 PM6 votes

Can you do something about MonkeyKing ? its been 8 months since you gutted him

And you are buffing every toplaners, adding items like PD, stopwatch...

The23rdGamer4/12/2019, 5:38:44 PM6 votes

I'm glad these are issues. I really hope Hunter's Potion can stay around in a more useful form because it is a fairly cool item that just feels underpowered (but hopefully it doesn't jump to overpowered!)

Speaking of that... any plans for item 1083? It's the lane variant of item 2032's in the sense that it feels effectively like a trap.

Zacaroni Salad4/13/2019, 12:49:48 AM6 votes

The only thing that will make this even better is if Zac's Q gets reverted as well [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Rocknotes4/13/2019, 12:38:29 AM6 votes
  • Aatrox - He still has been too hard to counter at high level and pro play which really hurts his playability for normal players. Our current changes make his ult revive only activate if he gets a takedown while his ult is active to remove his reliable ability to deny his own death. To compensate we’re buffing his baseline stats and exploring some other spicy additions.

I think this is my first time ever posting to forums but I just wanted to give some feedback on this as a moderately high elo top laner (D1-Master tier). I feel like Aatrox has a lot of bad matchups, where he can easily get poked out of lane... or lose a lot of all in trades based on his damage all being skillshot reliant. I do think taking away his ult revive will make his lane phase struggle hard in solo queue, as a lot of times his ult may be the only reason he doesn't hard feed the enemy top laner or get dove repeatedly. In addition I think that this will move him even further away from the original aatrox and taking more out of his kit.

Even with buffing his base stats and maybe doing some other changes to his kit, I feel like moving away from a more guaranteed revive is the wrong call in my opinion. When I always think of aatrox I always think of his revive both before and after the rework and thought it was great that aspect was maintained.

I do think some things need to be changed around, unfortunately I don't have any ideas.

I did however like one addition that was on the pbe at one time where his Q's basically had no cooldown during his ultimate, which I think a lot of people would like as it would make Aatrox feel like the more old unstoppable one pre rework.

You guys did a great job with the Urgot revamp to balance him around a lot better and give him a unique identity. I feel the revive kit is a big part of Aatrox's identity and should try to be maintained as a constant factor :)

Crystal Lobster4/12/2019, 6:37:54 PM6 votes

How about skarner skin in 9.9 or 9.10 ????????????item 3070 Skarner item 3070

Ambitious Minnow4/13/2019, 6:36:23 PM5 votes

"Early Jungle Lane Dependence - This one is here because we think we can target a common jungler pain point without a big amount of change. Philosophically we like for junglers to participate in the wider game and have to take risks to succeed, but we also want to solve a frustration point that early fights are too important and junglers feel overly reliant on laner rotations to succeed. We’re testing changes around scuttle mechanics and possibly other tactics to see if we can create a less pressured level 2 fight-or-lose situation."

The reason it's fight or lose at that scuttle is because of the xp nerf! Stop messing up the jg and just revert!

Minimac20004/15/2019, 8:37:13 PM4 votes

Hi, giving tahm an 80% self-slow on his ally w will not make him playable in soloq lol. I played a large amount of TK last season and giving him mana buffs on w-q as compensation won't do a thing to help him since he can't safely use w-q because it is on a 30s cd. This change will leave him more in the dumpster in soloq than he already is

astralwit4/12/2019, 6:24:23 PM4 votes

Please bring back a viable version of Dark Harvest for junglers (one that isn't inherently more favorable for laners and that has some tie in to camps + a more skillful soul pickup game like before.). Junglers aren't just lane dependent early due to scuttlers, they also tend to scale pretty badly and have no real late game rune alternative. They're forced to gank a ton because they can't carry themselves.

Of course there are exceptions like Kindred, Eve, Yi, Kha but as a playstyle, I don't really have good late game options as jg like we used to in S8 with DH. The old rune had a totally different identity than it does now and it doesn't seem OK for me to have a rework of a rune with the same name and have it serve completely different users. I loved the soul pickup for allies (actually a good anti-tilt mechanism), camps and enemies. It actually affected the way I played fights, had true late game potential and was much more interesting than what it is now.

BTW: Do you guys read the PBE feedback section much? I don't see responses there almost ever.

l MrD l4/12/2019, 5:10:38 PM4 votes

wow so much to look forward to ... i came up with an idea with aftershock to put it in teh direction of what you want with it as said here .. Change it to function as normal but when procced the user deals 40% less damage as an example and to compensate that you could increase the explosion damage by a bit ... this way tanks and bruisers still benefit from it and the carry champions which are abusing it can still choose it but it means sacrifing damage in return?

Also with Zac i really like current ult as it is as its very unique and very playmaking its not damage focused and more utility focused which is great for a tank

BigPapaGoose4/14/2019, 8:09:02 PM4 votes

Please I know hunter's potion is super underrated right now but it's like a key component to my Ivern success in solo queue. Running Aery with Nullifying orb, celerity, and water walking, and inspiration for Time Warp tonic and futures market is my favorite playstyle. All whole bunch of movement speed so I can roam and get where I need to. And just because I don't have a youtube channel or stream to promote for you doesn't mean you should gut it... Ivern

SpecterVonBaren4/14/2019, 7:46:05 PM3 votes

Tahm's W is literally the only utility he has that makes him a viable support. His ult is the real problem he just doesn't provide the kind of damage or CC to make his ult useful most of the time unless he has coordination with someone else. While it IS a unique and iconic ult, if you want to push him more towards being a support then you need to change his ult to something that can be used bot lane, preferably in combat. Just nerfing his W will make him a worse and worse support because no one is ever going to take Tahm bot for his crappy single target slow. He needs more utility.