Patch Chat with Playtest - Patch 6.3

RiotSkarnye West·2/9/2016, 8:56:48 PM·1 votes·236,809 views

Hello!

We are Riot’s Playtest Team, a group of high ranking League players whose job it is to play the hell out of things (lane tests, competitive testing, etc) and give actionable, objective feedback to designers. Between us, we have experience as pro players, casters, coaches, analysts, and esports journalists. But above all, we are enthusiastic players of League of Legends, with an average of 3673 hours of gameplay each, and that’s just on our mains. If League of Legends were a 8-5 job, we’d be starting our 16th month on the job!

Every two weeks, we’re going to be hosting a discussion here on the state of balance on the current patch. Take this opportunity to ask us any questions about the state of the game because, as we said, it’s our job to analyze it from all angles.

This week, we’re going to discuss sleeper picks on 6.3, whether they’re the result of direct changes or a shifting landscape, or are simply champions that have remained underplayed despite strength in recent patches.


Let’s start with someone who’s been strong the last few patches but hasn’t seen much play. Feel like sometimes your team just holds you down? Try Nautilus; he’s used to carrying a heavy weight and making it look easy!

CJ’s Untara has been rocking Nautilus in the top lane; check out CJ Entus’ Week 4 games vs Longzhu Gaming for more!

Nautilus Top - Mattias “Gentleman Gustaf” Lehman Grasp of the Undying means it’s a good time to be big and beefy up top. Trundle, Dr. Mundo, and Tahm Kench all had their time in the spotlight before the nerf hammer brought them down to size. Who will rise to take their place? Malphite has remained rock steady as the second-highest win rate top laner (behind the explosive Graves), and the second-highest play rate top laner (behind Fiora).

But what about a top laner nobody has noticed lurking beneath the waves? Nautilus smashes both Malphite and Fiora, while taking on old favorites like Dr. Mundo, Gangplank, Gnar, Jax, and Riven. He enables ganks with a ridiculous four CC abilities, and scales well into teamfights thanks to his initiation potential and heavy peel. He still loses pretty hard to Graves, but let’s be real, we’re all banning him anyway.

On the itemization front, a perfect storm has been brewing. Sunfire Cape got an armor buff in 6.1 and a buff to minion damage in 6.3, giving Naut an easy first buy choice. Additionally, the Iceborn Gauntlet preseason changes allowed him to itemize for damage, tankiness, and heavy CDR all at the same time. Add Boots of Swiftness and your opponents will be left with nothing but a sinking feeling as they try to escape.

If you do happen to run into a Nautilus top lane, don’t try to out-CC him. Instead, pick a champion who will outscale him in 1v1 fights, and force him to lose split-push duels against you. Garen, Darius, Trundle, and Nasus should all do the trick with their sustain and relentless damage.


Runic Echoes Runic Echoes gave a number of junglers a hearty bump, but other than Elise and Nidalee - the usual suspects - and a surprise visit from AP Udyr, most AP junglers remain underpicked.

Diana Jungle - Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes Despite a nearly 5% win rate increase with the release of Runic Echoes, Diana’s play rate still hovers at about 4%. The additional Movement Speed and burst damage from the Runic Echoes proc gives her huge snowball potential, and once Diana gets ahead, she eclipses the competition. With her fast and healthy clear she is able to get level 6 quickly and safely, at which point she has incredible ganks and dueling potential.

The thing that ~~shyvana ~~Diana does best in the jungle is farm. She is able to almost keep up with solo laners farm due to her near instant camp clearing. When you’re not ganking, you should be speed clearing your camps because this will give you a level edge versus the other jungler, and allow you to seek them out and duel them.

With this large farm advantage and her great dueling potential she has the potential to carry games unlike most other junglers. On the other hand, if she doesn't

Jungle Fiddlesticks - Mattias “Gentleman Gustaf” Lehman For me, League of Legends is all about outsmarting my opponent, whether it’s baiting somebody into a duel I know they can’t win, arriving just in time to turn a gank into a countergank, or dying to a four-man gank bot lane while my team sneaks baron. If you want to play mind games, nothing beats the feeling of surprising your opponent by flying over a wall and turning a bad teamfight into a perfect crowstorm. Fiddlesticks is the type of jungler that can put the game on his shoulders or throw the whole game for his team. But with great responsibility comes great power.

With exception of the Runeglaive days, Fiddlesticks has consistently maintained a high jungle win rate. Despite the Runic Echoes change, Fiddlesticks’ pick rate remains low, but his win rate is back to terrifying levels.

Watch out for knockbacks! Nothing feels worse than setting the perfect trap only to have it denied by a pesky Alistar.


Duskblade of Draktharr Of course, we’d be remiss if we didn’t touch on AD Assassins, who are getting a brand new item: Duskblade of Draktharr, giving them access to new burst and tank-busting ability.

Dusk has some serious pain points and counters, however. QSS and Zhonya’s both mitigate high amounts of damage against Dusk, just as they do vs Zed’s Death Mark, and assassins who itemize into Dusk should find their scaling falling off as they progress into the late game and find more and more of their damage mitigated by Zhonya’s, QSS, and growing shields coming from supports.

All AD assassins use Duskblade reasonably well, but the two biggest threats are Zed and Talon

Zed - Blake “Ex Shepherd” Soberanis I play Zed because killing other players is fun. Ult in, drop my damage, dash out, and walk away while my target dies to Death Mark like the badass ninja that I am. Zed is the end of the alphabet, and I am the end of your time on Summoner’s Rift. So watch out for Duskblade because now Death Mark comes twice.

Sure, Zed nerfs hit live at the same time Dusk does, but 5% less Death Mark damage isn’t going to stop me from killing you.

Zed benefits heavily from the Duskblade proc thanks to the damage amp on Death Mark. Either the Dusk proc will be amplified by Death Mark, or Death Mark will be amplified by Dusk proc. Either way, he ends up gaining more damage from the Duskblade proc than any other champions. Minor nerfs will be following him onto live as a result, but players who time their use of Duskblade well should be able to account for this.

Talon - Ben "Cezium" Burkhardt Don’t forget about Talon, though. With a 53%+ win rate over the last 3 patches, the release of Duskblade is almost secondary to his consistency, but nobody ever complained about too many good things.

His laning phase is weak, but Corrupting Flask allows him to sustain through the early game and pick up the items he needs to pick off squishy carries and supports.

Honorable Mention Jungle Gragas - Scott "Sickoscott" Hong Gragas' early clear was a big reason as to why he hasn't been picked lately. With the 6.3 buffs he may make it back into viability and find a place in both solo and competitive.

What do you think? Who are your sleepers for 6.3? Tell us below in the comments and feel free to ask any questions you have for Playtest Team at Riot, whether they be about balance or what exactly our job is! We will be around for the next few hours and will try to answer as many questions as possible.

Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Adam "Afic" Cohen Isaac “Azael” Cummings-Bentley Shawn “I Am The IRS” Currie Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Scott “Sickoscott” Hong Mattias “Gentleman Gustaf” Lehman Nicholas “Drecker” Shapiro Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “Ex Shepherd” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

746 Comments

KishinB2/9/2016, 9:32:31 PM67 votes

I enjoy my Xin top lane so much, start and max Q then E for the cooldown reduction(I guess W now as of this patch lol). Play like an AD assassin and just destroy squishies one by one. You can 1v1 most meta tops at level 1 because of the Q's AA reset and enhanced damage. And if a cheeky jungler tries to gank, ult him away and escape.

But now... Win Zhao is getting W crits??? XinZhao ??? Time to go off-tank top lane and...

BE A MAN YOU MUST BE SWIFT AS A COURSING RIVER WITH ALL THE FORCE OF A GREAT TYPHOON WITH ALL THE STRENGTH OF A RAGING summoner 14 MYSTERIOUS AS THE DARK SIDE OF THE Diana

Señor Boy2/9/2016, 11:44:40 PM39 votes

wheres my nautilus VU i want that fucker HUGE! like TURRET HUGE. so huge that nautilus instantly kills dragon because it crashes into nautilus from flying into the map.

PrometheS2/10/2016, 5:00:05 AM35 votes

I understand the nerf to Zed in this case but there is a problem with nerfing champions based on items. For example, in Zed's case, the nerf means that you now HAVE to build Duskblade or you're just in a worse spot than before. Nerfing a champion due to a new item that's supposed to be strong on them enforces a certain build path.

There is no AP Zed or tank Zed so it's not that much of an issue for him but for other champions it certainly could be. For example, I plan on trying it with Nocturne but I'd hate to have him nerfed because of it since I play him in many styles. Sometimes I go Cinderhulk into tank, other times Devourer into bruiser, sometimes Devourer into all damage items, occasionally full AD assassin with Warrior etc. I love this flexibility but if an item is overwhelmingly strong on a champion, it just narrows their viable build paths by forcing that core since the champion is balanced around that particular item. Are you guys concerned about this at all?

DebonairCorgi2/10/2016, 4:08:10 AM28 votes

I feel like so much focus is being put onto AD champions in these last few patches. They are continuing to get better buffs and items, while mages continue to become easier to deal with. I main mages such as: Ahri, Karma, and Morgana, and continue to be forced to rush inefficiently priced items like Zonya's vs AD champions. You nerfed Mages a few patches ago by increasing the price of most of our strong items while leaving AD items virtually untouched. Mages have 3 items that have Magic Penetration and 1 Item (Abyssal) that lowers MR at close range... Then we have only 2 items that viably mitigate AD damage through Armor (Zonya's then Harbingers which isn't actually viable on mid-lane mages) and 4 items that provide Health, and 1 that provides a shield. Are you expecting us to change our builds to compensate for the explosive damage you're piling onto AD champions? Yes, we're bursty as hell, but you're making AD champions so bursty, buying Zonya's is a complete waste because we have to burn it EVERY time it's up only to be melted right after because AD champs have 5 items (all of which are viable on virtually any AD champion) that provide Armor Pen, and can be stacked (Ex: Maw + Ghostblade), Now duskblade so 6, 2 items that are again highly viable on virtually all AD Champs and provide MR, and 5 items that provide strong health options. All of these items are viable picks for most AD Champions WITHOUT disrupting their builds, whereas Mages have very few that are also easy to work against. Unless we ditch our normal build path and build defensive items galore, we're easily bursted down.

It's very hard for mages that are behind to get back into the game vs AD Champions now, whereas many AD champions just need to buy one or two items to get back in if they have a rough early game.

I might just be bad at League or just inexperienced, but to me it seems like all the focus is leaning too heavily towards AD Champions, making Mages weaker.

Vekkna2/9/2016, 9:38:43 PM26 votes

Zed Second highest pick rate in mid Talon Second highest win rate in mid

"Sleeper"

Ok.

Lvl 6 Jigglypuff2/9/2016, 11:57:03 PM24 votes

I play a lot of immobile mage mid laners (Anivia , Lux , etc) and as such I have a completely unbiased burning hatred of slight bias against AD assassins since they tend to do well against that type of mid laner, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

But it seems like mid lane AD champs, namely assassins, have been pretty strong all season due partially to item and mastery changes. While mages have to rush CDR/mana and have little mobiilty, they rush damage, apply tons of lane pressure, and can then roam and impact the map far more effectively. As such, what was the reasoning for this new item? I like it, it seems really cool don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they need another strong toy to play with.

They already kill squishies well (which is their job, and a very important part of the game), and tanks are usually the rock-paper-scissors counter to them. This item seems to make them even better at killing squishies and, as the very article says, help with tank busting. From what you all say it seems to not break the game, and I highly doubt it will 'broken', but surely my concerns aren't unfounded. Does this item really not make AD assassins that much stronger, because on paper it seems to. And just a tiny bit more power early is more than enough to snowball even harder on already snowbally champs

Asyde2/9/2016, 10:17:26 PM19 votes

DRAGON'S DOMINANCE (4TH STACK) +15% damage to monsters and minions ⇒ You take 20% less damage from turrets

I can't even begin to tell you how terrible of an idea this is. Turrets already barely tickle at higher levels, hell turret diving at lower levels is practically a joke now. The LAST thing we need is for them to do LESS DAMAGE...

Riot please, If anything make it so that dragon buff INCREASES turret damage or INCREASES turret defenses.

C9 Midian2/9/2016, 10:16:08 PM19 votes

If you play the hell out of this game, why is fiora not being nerfed?

Banısh2/9/2016, 10:15:43 PM17 votes

I feel like you left Phreak out of the list there... he obviously had some influence

Hypoetic2/10/2016, 5:30:41 PM15 votes

Just gonna come right out and say this... STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AREN'T BROKEN! alistar was perfectly fine and now ur making him easier to play? how about we get auto insect plays from leesin? i mean common i should only have to think about do i want to land this combo or am i going to land this combo...

what about riven? think we can get some auto animation cancelling for the AAs after Q? or maybe some ERQaaW2aaQRQ combos i mean not even the pros get the full riven combo correctly every time better make it accessible to everyone who hasn't practiced enough to master it.

i have an even crazier idea... lets may thresh auto flay leonas E engage i mean who needs timing AMIRIGHT...

but heres the best part... STOP TRYING TO FIX THINGS THAT ARENT BROKEN

GEE thanks!

Summonerrr 12/10/2016, 3:41:36 AM11 votes

I feel like with these last few patches and the changes to the raw numbers especially of the past few seasons, you guys (intentionally or not, doesn't matter to me) are moving away from towers being a credible mid-late game threat to champions and dives, and more towards a trivial objective necessary to victory. Is this an accurate feeling? I may be overreacting here, but it just seems like towers go down 2-3x faster than they used to.

I'm also unsure as to why Crest of Cinders (Red buff) works on towers when the latest dragon buff changes make it to where that would be essentially redundant.

in season 3-5 taking 2 or more tower shots for a dive, after 13-15 minutes was still a very serious gambit. Now with the itemization changes and damage changes in regard to how durable turrets are in particular, they seem more like static non-threatening objectives necessary to victory than a REAL threat or credible point to form a defense around. I often see matches where certain tanks would routinely take 4-5 shots and even without half their build done, it still hardly phases them, often not even taking 33-50% of their health.

This wouldn't be as much of an issue for me, but when a tower can be taken down right after laning phase is over by 1-3 champions with a single minion wave, they just kind of seem like a joke.

nubblez2/9/2016, 9:41:07 PM11 votes

What are you guys' thoughts on AD Brand Brand ? I love this hero and been experimenting with him ever since the dark horse article to have him as support. I think he really brings a lot to the table as an ADC in terms of raw mixed damage like Corki, with the added benefit of a stun! The stun really does wonders for winning trades and self peel.

Rabid R62/10/2016, 5:35:29 PM8 votes

I'd like to know what kind of backwards thinking snake got this xin update through the cracks honestly. we just got murdered by him 4 people on him. he had devourer and guinsoos. and we couldn't kill him. honestly riot. what are you doing to this game? sincerely someone recognizing its getting worse as the days go on.

Northerner2/10/2016, 3:51:23 AM8 votes

shhhh ... dont tell everyone about nautilus .... let him stay at the bottom of the sea where only I can play him ...

SignError2/9/2016, 10:25:08 PM6 votes

Illaoi

How do you feel about Support Illaoi? I've seen a lot of her recently.

SorenWestwood2/9/2016, 10:06:19 PM5 votes

Interesting thread, appreciated the info

slightly OT, but I noticed Drecker was on staff. That the earth spirit player? Wouldn't be surprised he ended up on this team.

dude68killermax2/9/2016, 10:00:05 PM5 votes

Nasus top is actually so strong if you play him right you can dominate lane. even if you get killed early on just get stacks and come back top. with that being sad i don't know what items exactly to build past frozen heart so if any one can tell me that would be great thx

GitExcited2/10/2016, 12:37:39 AM4 votes

Is Graves getting a nerf any time soon? [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Merxamers2/9/2016, 9:17:19 PM4 votes

I feel like Zilean mid is pretty sleeper OP. Playing against it can be frustrating, even if i'm not mid; he just speeds up teammates and slows you down.

I may actually try to go Nautilus top, but i don't know what masteries/runes to take; i feel like i'd do no damage to whoever else went up there.