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Mid Year Mage Updates - Cassiopeia Direction

RiotRiotRepertoir·3/1/2016, 4:01:11 AM·1 votes·208,386 views

Hi all,

It's time for the post where we talk about the direction we want to take Cassiopeia. Now that we've done a few of these, you probably know what to expect from this, but in case you've missed those ones, I'll reiterate. This will not be an exhaustive list of the exact mechanics changes or numerical changes you can expect to see in the update, as that is all still pending. Instead, I hope this informs interested parties in the kinds of things they can expect to see.

When it came to deciding which mages we wanted to update with this group, we knew we wanted to get to Cassiopeia, but we actually had a pretty hard time trying to determine what exactly we wanted to accomplish on her. As I've mentioned previously, there isn't a prescriptive formula we can apply to all these various mages to ultimately achieve the best results for each of them, but here's what we're thinking for Cass.

A lot of players have asked for "Poison Mage" when talking about Cassiopeia. This update does not intend to make Cassiopeia a "Poison Mage," at least not in a way that some players seem to desire (or fear, depending on your stance). To truly make her a "Poison Mage" would require large alterations to the champion that may achieve that feeling, but that we ultimately thought would no longer be Cassiopeia. That said, Cassiopeia is a mage that utilizes poisons, and it currently feels like there is not enough power allocated to these parts of her kit, so we'd like to redistribute some power in the kit off of Twin Fang and Aspect of the Serpent, and into other areas. If you don't like Cassiopeia because you expected a "Poison Mage" out of her and didn't get one, then you may not still like her following these changes. If you don't like Cassiopeia because the way Twin Fang works makes her feel one-dimensional, then hopefully this will appeal to you. At the end of the day, we do think Twin Fang is important to the identity of Cassiopeia, but the power budget that has been allocated to it is a bit out of whack.

Let's get into some expectations. Feel free to drop some questions/comments below if anything is unclear. This isn't a heavily wordsmithed post, so there's likely some stuff I don't say correctly the first time.

  • Here's some stuff we're happy with about Cassiopeia and are unlikely to change:
  • Despite facing gameplay not being perfect, Petrifying Gaze provides some really cool high moments.
  • Twin Fang as a high cadence spell.
  • Twin Fang's power being unlocked by Poisons.
  • Cassiopeia feels swift and deadly.
  • Here's some stuff we're less happy with and are actively trying to resolve:
  • Aspect of the Serpent forces a carry curve in an unnatural, somewhat feel-bad way.
  • Poisoning should be more about harming/disabling enemies than empowering Cassiopeia.
  • The amount of power allocated to Twin Fang makes Cassiopeia feel one dimensional.
  • Noxious Blast and Miasma's targeting types can result in lame "place your circles here" gameplay.
  • Miasma's output (damage/slow) isn't very interesting and doesn't feel particularly "poison-y."
  • Here's what I hope (these designs are still in progress) will be true of Cassiopeia following her changes:
  • Cassiopeia will still feel like Cassiopeia and not "brand new LoL Poison Mage." Tweaks here and there, but still Cassiopeia.
  • Cassiopeia's poison spells will feel like they stand alone rather than feeling like slaves to Twin Fang.
  • Cassiopeia will still be pretty heavy on the inputs side of things, namely frequency.
  • Avoiding getting poisoned will still feel like one of the main things you're thinking about when playing against Cassiopeia.
  • Poisons will feel less like generic DoTs.
  • Cassiopeia still feels like a medium-short range mage.

That's about all I've got for now. Again, if anything is unclear, or if you have further questions, ask it below.

Cheers, Repertoir

904 Comments

Mandaari3/1/2016, 4:11:53 AM54 votes

Noxious Blast and Miasma's targeting types can result in lame "place your circles here" gameplay.

Where did this one come from? It seems like simple mechanics are automatically branded as lame. What's wrong with circular AoEs all of a sudden?

Hellioning3/1/2016, 4:08:30 AM52 votes

I keep trying to type words and those words keep coming out as aggressive and incredibly salty.

In an attempt to keep things civil, I'm just going to boil them down to a couple of sentences.

I'm still not sure what you guys seem to have against Cass. I'm not sure why you think Twin Fangs is a fun and interesting spell, or that you think it's appropriate for Cass' kit to be twitchy and mechanics intensive. I want a DoT champion, not an arthritis-inducing champion. And her ult still sucks.

Kasey Chambers3/1/2016, 6:45:42 AM41 votes

I don't like how Cassiopeias passive scales as the game progresses. Getting to 250 or 500 stacks is such a sudden power spike, but not in a way that feels good. Suddenly gaining 25% permanent CDR at a seemingly arbitrary time in the game is just strange, and in an instant makes her far more forgiving (lower CD on E if you hit a non-poisoned target, lower CD on poisons if you miss them). No other champion power spikes in such erratic and instant ways other than certain ult ranks (e.g. Kennens rank 3 ult suddenly allowing him to stun the entire enemy team with his ult alone, as opposed to 3.5 people).

I will compare Cassiopeia to another "late game carry" mage, Veigar. When facing Veigar you think "if we let this game go late he will gradually become a major threat", but when facing Cassiopeia it is more like "she is 25 stacks off a massive AP bonus, we need to engage now or she will be far stronger". And then after 25 stacks are gained that window closes forever. It just feels contrived more than anything with such janky powerspikes happening at inconsistent times of the game due to some enemy teams being far more susceptible to poison poke than others.

If the current passive is going to stay, I would like to see it become a linear increase rather than sudden spikes. For example, instead of 5%/10%/30% AP at the breakpoints, make her passive cap at 600 stacks and each stack provides +(0.05% AP), totaling at +30%. This would work similarly for CDR, giving a small amount of CDR/stack until 300 stacks where it caps at 25%. The Twin Fangs heal is a bit harder to measure since it contains a flat heal amount that early on would be healing for amounts like 0.4 hp, but you get the idea. You might have noticed I increased the cap points slightly, that is simply to offset the fact that Cassiopeia would have partial benefits sooner, particularly the CDR.

Other than that, I like that Cassiopeia currently has a reliable way to Rylais slow her target and still have her E available. Miasma is reasonably reliable, if you don't use it on a target that is about to dash it is fairly confirmed to hit. Once you have Rylais you can then slow them with Twin Fangs and hit a much easier Q, allowing the pain train to begin. I believe that some form of getting a reliable reduced CD E to apply Rylais single target slow on a target, either through Miasma or Petrifying Gaze followed by Noxious Blast is necessary with the amount of mobility in the game, otherwise targets with dashes can just hamstring Cassiopeias damage output by avoiding poisons and never having to deal with rapidfire Twin Fangs.

Lisbeth3/1/2016, 4:26:04 AM32 votes

{quoted}

To truly make her a "Poison Mage" would require large alterations to the champion that may achieve that feeling, but that we ultimately thought would no longer be Cassiopeia.

The irony here is that after all the changes you've given her in the past she doesn't really feel like Cassiopeia to her fans now anyway.

Karma Deified3/1/2016, 4:52:36 AM30 votes

"brand new LoL Poison Mage."

First rework converted Cass from poison Mage to "brand new AP Marksman with no auto attack damage."

In all honesty, it'd make more sense to revert Cass and work from there. The rework brought nothing of value to Cass, putting it lightly.

ArthurRambo3/1/2016, 4:24:58 AM24 votes

I love twin fangs! I understand moving power around in the kit but I really hope it doesn't feel too weak in the update. I love spammy champs like that, and I personally really enjoy the way her burst power is gated behind having to land q or w.

Fuzzkat3/1/2016, 6:40:49 AM21 votes

Please please please, take a technical pass on her ultimate. Recode it, reconfigure it, whatever you have to do to make it as reliable as you can. Because no matter how well the update goes, if her ultimate is deemed by players as buggy or unreliable we won't ever get to see her in competitive play.

I don't know about you but seeing a pro play a mechanically intensive champion like Cass is something I want.

Carnicore3/1/2016, 5:10:02 AM15 votes

Here's some stuff we're happy with about Cassiopeia and are unlikely to change:

  • Twin Fang as a high cadence spell.

cadence: A modulation or inflection of the voice. OR: A sequence of notes or chords comprising the close of a musical phrase.

I'm so confused