Boards›Dev Corner

Teamfight Tactics — /dev Update: Ranked Changes

RiotRiot SapMagic·8/6/2019, 10:27:19 PM·1 votes·104,076 views

Hey tacticians, Ed "SapMagic" Altorfer here on behalf of the Teamfight Tactics team. Ranked‌ ‌has‌ ‌been‌ ‌out‌ ‌for‌ ‌a‌ ‌little‌ ‌while‌ ‌now,‌ and things are looking pretty good overall. Even so, we’re‌ ‌taking‌ ‌stock‌ ‌and‌ making ‌a‌ ‌few‌ ‌tuning‌ ‌adjustments.‌ Specifically, a couple ‌inconsistencies‌ ‌have‌ ‌made‌ ‌it‌ ‌a‌ ‌little‌ ‌more‌ ‌forgiving‌ ‌than‌ ‌we‌ ‌intended,‌ ‌so‌ ‌we're‌ ‌making‌ ‌the following changes which are heading to PBE for testing before we push them to live:‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ #Demotion Protection In TFT, you’re supposed to demote if you lose at 0 LP in any given division (barring a few rare exceptions) as a tradeoff for the lack of promotion series you see in other League ranked queues. Due to a bug, we weren't demoting players during their first couple games after promoting. From now on, you'll be demoted if you lose LP if you were at 0 LP when the game started.

#Challenger/Grandmaster Demotion Protection (Also Affects Other Ranked Queues) For players in Challenger and Grandmaster, you’re supposed to demote into Masters if you are at 0 LP at the end of the day, and then demote back to Diamond if you lose at 0 LP in Master. However, when there aren't enough Masters or Grandmaster players, it results in a situation where Challenger players can't demote. Moving forward, when you lose LP while at 0 LP in GM or Challenger you'll immediately be demoted to Diamond 1. One last note—we're making this change across all ranked queues, not just TFT.

#LP Adjustments In concert with the changes to demotion protection, we're making a few other tweaks to LP calculations to prevent extreme edge cases where you could gain more LP than you should. For the most part, you will not see or feel any changes based on this optimization.

And that's it! We're still building this thing with you, so please continue sharing feedback as we go through the first beta season of Ranked. Don't forget to have fun, and we'll see you in the arena!

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Maokai.png

57 Comments

TheWutangRZA8/7/2019, 3:32:15 AM39 votes

Hi, I'm a challenger player in NA, and can I just say I thoroughly hate this change? What is the point of GM and master if one bad game means dropping all the way from challenger to D1? What is the point of the daily promotion/demotion timer?

As someone currently sitting at the lower end of challenger it just makes me not want to queue at all, which I imagine isn't the intent. Like, this actually just makes me want to walk away entirely from the game.

A loss at 0 LP will result in instant demotion from challenger to D1, but being above the LP cut in Master isn't going to result in instant promotion to GM or challenger. What exactly is the point of the promotion/demotion countdown now???

Edit: Just to be clear, I'd be fine with it in situations like NA GM right now, where it's literally impossible to demote, but in challenger right now in NA everything is working just fine. Players below the LP threshold get demoted, those above in GM get promoted. Why exactly should a loss at 0 LP challenger result in instant demotion, not to GM, not to Master, but all the way to D1--especially when there's no instant promotion back up; still have to wait for the cutoff. Seems extremely punitive for no reason.

Just to point out to those who might think I'm just being a crybaby. It's possible to lose upwards of 80 LP for an 8th place in challenger. Currently, 80 LP is rank 82 on the ladder. That means nearly every single player in challenger in NA other than the top 80 are one loss and one 5th away from being Diamond again. That's absurd. Just a reminder, not everyone in challenger is an esports streamer that plays 8 hours a day. As a person with real life obligations, I can safely say that if I have two bad games in a row and immediately drop to Diamond, I just won't touch TFT again. I think most people who are currently in D1 or those who were some combination of skilled/lucky enough to make it out have near PTSD with being D1 again.

The inherent variance that exists in a game like TFT makes an instant demotion from challenger to D1 after 2 losses insane. If I don't deserve challenger because there are 300 better players on the ladder, then so be it, I'll get demoted once the timer hits zero if I can't maintain the LP required to be in challenger. But losing 2 games in a row doesn't suddenly mean a top 100 TFT player is now a Diamond player.

Final point:

If Riot is insistent on these sorts of changes, I would say that master should be the lowest someone can drop to. One of the biggest feelings of accomplishment for a semi-casual player in Hearthstone is reaching Legend. Once you do it, you're legend for the rest of the season. You made it and no one can take that away from you. Sure, you might not be a top 100 Legend, but that wasn't why you played in the first place--you set a goal, to make it to Legend, and you achieved it and it feels good.

If I demoted to master either due to decay or bad play, cool, I'll fire the game up the next day and give it my best. But if I demote to D1, the equivalent of dropping from Legend in HS to rank 1, I will just quit. No one wants to do that grind again. Doing it once was a huge challenge, and cresting that mountain felt immensely rewarding. If you shove me off the cliff after I've reached the top, I'm not climbing the mountain again. I'm going to go look for something else to do.

If you really want to see challenger queues skyrocket, the solution isn't to punish and frustrate your players. It's to provide a backstop for them so they don't dread losing what they've worked for.

TheUrbanKitsune8/6/2019, 10:34:16 PM17 votes

Now just to do this for ranked solo/duo. Honestly not sure why the promotional system is still in place. Sure it feels nice to be able to lose at 0LP and not get demoted, but I'd trade that for not having to go through promos.

Cräfty8/7/2019, 4:42:57 AM15 votes

...things are looking pretty good overall...

Hmmm... Say what again?

https://imgur.com/GrPuvJk

Specifically, a couple ‌inconsistencies‌ ‌have‌ ‌made‌ ‌it‌ ‌a‌ ‌little‌ ‌more‌ ‌forgiving‌ ‌than‌ ‌we‌ ‌intended...

Wait what?! Forgiving?! What are you talking about?!

You're telling me that spending hours grinding ranked and finally gaining 75 LP after playing 5 games only to lose it all in just ONE loss, where I had a bad game and placed 8th, is intended?

You're telling me that ruining and nullifying the whole progression of a day worth of grinding, by losing once or twice at 8th/7th place, is how you want the ranked system to work, hein?!

Are you guys for real?!

Did you even listen, or even consider paying attention, to the whole freaking community feedback?! Literally 100% of the community thinks the ranked system sucks in TFT and you guys are like:

...things are looking pretty good overall...

HOLY MACARONI, man! GODDAMN!

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Karlberg it is8/7/2019, 7:38:48 AM14 votes

Hello, i am currently challenger in TFT on euw and i disagree with this change.

Just because you have a bad day it doesn't mean that you suddenly go from a challenger player to diamond. Losing close to 100lp for an 8th is punishing enough, risking dropping 3 tiers will just make me never wanna queue ever again and I know for a fact that i am not alone having these thoughts. I will just let my account sit and let everyone else demote because they have a couple of lowroll games in a row.

Dropping hundreds of lp a day is normal in tft and it happens to the best of us. Even some of the current top players in the game who make it to 500+ lp and compete in tournaments are now low challenger/gm because they are just simply having a bad day. Them dropping to diamond is not only unfair for them but also unfair for the people in diamond who struggle to hit masters or even gm/challenger since they have to play vs players that are just out of their league.

With this new system, people from diamond to challenger will just rotate. And there wont be as much competition for reaching high lp on the ladder because of the fear of low challenger players dropping 3 tiers at low lp. And i know for a fact that people will just play on their other accounts while they are safe and make the cut, resulting in challengers crushing low elo in unfair and demotivating games for both parts. (Which is already happening when the ladder is about to update because of the massive lp loss for bottom 5)

Agent Corgi8/6/2019, 11:30:40 PM7 votes

So if I may be so bold to ask, does this mean we might see the possibility of Promotional Series being removed from the other Ranked Modes as well? Considering how TFT lacks this feature and all.

Great Deku8/6/2019, 11:00:19 PM7 votes

I just won a game at 0 lp masters and got demoted to d1 after that game???????

FutureTrunksOP8/6/2019, 10:41:51 PM7 votes

where is the like/dislike function on this post? Does Riot not enjoy/accept criticism?

dreamydischarge8/7/2019, 9:41:39 AM4 votes

before you start talking about demotion can you please fix lp gains and loses?

https://imgur.com/a/5BPRdNU

Miles Magic8/7/2019, 2:13:34 AM4 votes

If you are going to do this, make it impossible to lose LP at fourth place. And losing 44lp for 8th is quite frustrating as well.

AmadeusTFT8/7/2019, 8:55:55 AM2 votes

I don't midn the changes. Being able to drop out of master and challanger should be possible. But I would love if the lp gain and loses were a bit more forgiving. I am currently top 9 or so not sure since I am not at home right now so someone might be higher than me now. And I almost always go top 3 if I try hard, but there are games where you meet other top players like dark hydra 23 and etc and then low rolling and getting 4th somehow and losing lp for 4th feels wrong. Overall the lp gain is bad in my opinion gaining 40 max if you are super lucky but ussualy around 30 while losing 80 for 8th is a bit to harsh losing 60 for 8th and gaining 40 for first Sound way more resonable

haszkura8/7/2019, 5:44:49 AM2 votes

I am very frustrated when I lose half my points for 7th place. In my opinion, falling to 0 points will not be such a bad thing because there will be no deficit mmr deepening the problem of granting a small number of points for winning and losing a huge amount for losing. I would rather fall and return to the division than be punished with a deficit in awarding points. In my opinion there is a big problem in getting points in relation to losing them. Ranked games instead of giving pleasure are frustrating, because with RNG that occurs it can always happen that we are 6th or lower, not by our skill at all, why in such a situation I have to be punished losing such a great loss of points, and when it takes first the place doesn't feel rewarded enough. The situation is such that every day, practically since I was promoted to Platinum IV, I reach the limit of promotion and suddenly the game's RNG states that it is time to knock me down without giving any items or characters, thanks to which I go back at least half a division and so over and over again for several days. you can stand it mentally. Change it please!

Finders Keepers8/7/2019, 3:47:48 PM2 votes

Moving forward, when you lose LP while at 0 LP in GM or Challenger you'll immediately be demoted to Diamond 1. One last note—we're making this change across all ranked queues

soo your saying they get dumped from gm/challenger to d1 (not master) losing two whole divisons for losing 1 match at 0 lp? seems tough..

1M Gold Udyr XD8/7/2019, 8:05:23 AM1 votes

Please remove tier promotion. Stop it. Please look at Overwatch and their ranking system. Much more pleasant.

Gamod8/7/2019, 6:27:28 AM1 votes

There are many AI bugs, WW also has many bugs, sometimes he doesn't move, or the win the match with we full hp, or some champions stay stuck behind when there is space to move.. Also some items were not working correctly... For example guardian angel made the champion die when coming back without taking any damage.

Also the balance of the drops are very random and inconsistent... One player could have it all while other have nothing. How can a player be so lucky to have 3 champs fully levelled up (9xchampions) of the same early game? Why can't other players be that lucky on their investment? Also i have noticed that sometimes i get gold instead of an item like everyone else... The drops, the item rewards are just very unbalanced, this should be improved. The drop ratio should be increased for the classes/types of champions that i am selecting along the game. Sometimes the game will simply never give the champion that we invested for a specific strategy while others are just 100 points from start to late game because they have 3 level 3 gold champions and many atk speed, ap, mana items and are unbeatable due to luck and getting what they want while others stay in inferior position with weak drops that are against their composition strategy.. sometimes it feels too RND for a ranked game mode :)

Gamod8/7/2019, 6:10:22 AM1 votes

I feel that lp gain is inconsistent... It felt more rewarding when LP is more consistent. 1st place should give at least 85 LP, 2nd place 45lp, 3rd place 25Lp, 4th place 10-15lp. The 1st place should more rewarding... In some games i gained 37LP for 1st place... It feels like a 2nd place LP reward. This should be improved since you can be demoted easily.

Akkilan8/23/2019, 2:57:19 AM1 votes

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https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/off-topic-en/JKq7ptEF-amazon-rain-forests

Thanks you!!

Taikobou8/7/2019, 7:49:14 PM1 votes

I was really enjoying TFT, but now i play less and less, because the grinding is just stupid. I had situations where i ended up at 4th place and won 2lp, and other where i lost in 6th and lost almost 40lp. And when you finish at 8th you basicaly fall a tier. I guess the lp you gain or lose is related to your history? If you are winning several games and you finish at first you jump a tier, but if you are losing several games and finish at first you gain like 40ish lp. The same goes for losses, when you can lose almost nothing of lp or just lose like 70lp in one game.

Its a mess, we need more clarity on how this is calculated.

Jinzo Torrance8/8/2019, 12:44:04 PM1 votes

Why are you addressing TFT matchmaking when you still haven't fixed SR one? What the fuck?

leagueplayer4508/8/2019, 5:56:41 PM1 votes

Thanks to TFT, I played over 4 ranked SR games today and not a single one has been close. I knew this game mode would ruin that one. I am about ready to take another several month break from this game.

Nietono8/10/2019, 12:58:12 AM1 votes

Does demotion from challenger to Diamond 1 not work anymore? I've been watching Scarra place 8th repeatedly in Challenger at 0LP losing 0LP and not demoting.

Takµmi Fujiwara8/11/2019, 3:41:10 PM1 votes

Hey Riot sapmagic is funny how you guys care about demoting more than the LP win/loss gain like the hell? Gotta feel bad for the ppl who achieved GM or whatever to be demoted back to D1. Your game is not perfect tons of bugs and AI pathing problem yet you don't go patch that but patch something that totally irrelevant. Why are you trying to make TFT/rank solo queue the same and I really don't understand why GM demotes to d1 that's rough and it don't make sense at all lol?

Focus on what players are trying to tell you is the bloody LP win/loss problem demoting is fine feels fair but dsnt seem fair being challenger+etc would be scared to queue with this bs lp loss + now demoting to d1?

TFT is amazing dnt screw it up focus on what's important AI pathing and the LP win/loss problem. And maybe queue for urself in TFT since u unrank never played a game on TFT or u have smurf idk so u know how it feels not just yapping at ur chair adding random shts.

Such high potential game like how league were back then.. but always seems to have braindead controlling it sad.

Archyy8/12/2019, 12:27:57 PM1 votes

Fix your fucking PATHING = units that just stay in one place without being stunned or disarmed because they cant figure out how to path around a ally to get to their target. Braun Shield = Having a unit that can absorb the damage from 5 units without taking any damage for several seconds IS NOT BALANCED Noble Tooltip = your fucking UI is broken you morons, there is no information when for NOBLES when you hover you mouse over the class. Phantoms ability = in what universe is it balanced to have a 2.8k hp tank reduced to 100 hp just because you have a 2 UNITS combo? The wheel of autism = since when does the fact that you are doing well in a game mean that you should be punished? if you are first you pick last... In what fucking universe is that ok except the RIOT autism think tank?

You claim that this should be a competitor for underlords but this is like the fucking autistic mouth drooling brother of that game.

Deletion8/13/2019, 6:15:59 PM1 votes

Challenger player @EUNE atm. I just wanted to come here and say how awful this system is. I won't be encouraged to play any more than 1 game per day with this kind of changes..

Kovorix8/14/2019, 2:04:57 PM1 votes

As with all the people here say "then i will never queue up in challanger" can we not get a daily lp decay?

Rhythm of Love8/18/2019, 5:27:40 AM1 votes

srsly im not interested in master GM and challenger business yet since im currently sitting in d4d3, but theres one thing i wanna ask.

Since when do ppl drop lp for dieing with 4th place ? cuz that just made me demote from d3 to d4 and i dont really think thats fair,

its like i gain literally 5 to 10 lp for placing 2nd and 20 or something for 1st place, and just suddenly because of bad luck i could drop 50 to 60 lp, and still its not enough that the system must demote me for winning the 4th place?

or is there an mmr thing for TFT as well ? and how do you calculate that, by not giving items? literally, the reason i lost the game dropping my 50 lp was that i got 5 coins from raptors, and thats hilarious,

just pls do not make me lose lp or demote after i finished 4th place, because riot stated earlier that theres lp gain for 1-4 and lp lose for 5-8

thank you and now im going to catch some pokemon now :/

AceManVJ8/19/2019, 6:30:36 AM1 votes

I agree with alot of the complaints on here. I just found out today that demote protection is off. WTF?! I got promoted to GOLD 2 finally and I was half way to gold one when i took a lost that dropped me to zero and then another loss and got demoted to Gold 3 again where I been stuck for a week. Like wow Riot. And for that I'm done playing TFT. I hate Hextech also but learned to play around it. but this demote protection being taken away from TFT annnnnd now your saying it's being taken away from Summoners Rift?! Im done. Time to find me a new game that's not so serious about their rank demotion BS

Islandia8/7/2019, 7:33:34 AM1 votes

I'm not diamond yet but now i know it won't worth the climb to aim for higher rank than diamond x)