[DEV BLOG] Keystone Masteries in the 2016 Season

RiotPWYFF·11/6/2015, 9:05:30 PM·1 votes·54,692 views

Posting for gypsylord while he's out of the office today

Keystone Masteries By gypsylord

When Squad5, Stashu, and I set out to work on the new mastery system we had one goal in mind: how do we get a 3-hit passive on every champion in the game? After months of ideation, we came up with Thunderlord’s Decree, made it super strong, and BOOM, now even Warwick can have perfect gameplay.

In all seriousness though, I’m excited to be talking about the new masteries because we’re finally able to take the first steps on a project we’ve been wanting to do for some time: make masteries matter! Our specific goal with this year’s mastery revamp is to make the mastery tree a more impactful part of how you play. Do you like being a wall for your allies? Bursting out a squishy? Making a quick escape? Hopefully the mastery system can finally begin to serve one of its original purposes: providing players with interesting ways to optimize their characters that speaks to their playstyle.

We’re not going too crazy here, mind you, we still feel that overall champions and items are the best way to offer meaningful character differentiation. But we do believe that the improvements we’ve made to the system will result in a lot more players asking the question, “What do I want in my Talon mastery page?” instead of “what do I want in my offensive AD character X page?”

You’ve all probably seen the website but I’m going to highlight some things:

  • Ferocity is meant to favor marksmen, melee carries, and sustained damage mages. Resolve is meant to favor tanks, divers, and juggernauts. The old Utility tree has been done away with in favor of “Cunning,” a new tree that offers some interesting stuff for a number of supports, assassins, and burst mages.

  • Points in each row are exclusive so if you find the flat pen in tier 3 Cunning particularly attractive, you’re going to have to give up the cooldown reduction that’s right next to it.

  • The power per mastery point has been redistributed to heavily favor the tier 3 masteries found deep in the trees. This results in a new allocation layout, while it used to be standard to spend variations of 21-9-0 in the old trees you’ll now be looking to spend 18-12-0 or 18-6-6

  • We’ve also thrown in a number of awesome usability improvements that should make the entire act of setting up a page far less painless (THANKS ENGINEERS!). Clicking on a 5 point mastery will automatically dump all 5 points into it if you have that many to spend. That’s great for those crucial 10 seconds after you find out that the Blitzcrank on your team had no plans of ever going support!

  • You no longer have to take points out of a tree to reallocate points invested earlier, simply click on the new option you want and it’ll be swapped with whatever you’d already spent point on in that row.

  • An icon representing which tier 3 keystone each player took can be found on the loading screen and scoreboard, next to summoner spells. Going to be a lot harder for that all offense AD Soraka to cheese you out when you have a better idea of what she invested in.

Before moving on, I’d just like to highlight how freeing the new exclusivity changes are, design wise. Under the old system, if we put a bunch of powerful stuff deep in the offense tree, you would just take it all. Because of this, power on any individual mastery had to be tuned low and 21 pointers had to be pretty generalized - we were basically balancing for Kayle. No longer! With the addition of exclusivity between masteries in the same tier, we can finally make things speak to specific classes of a champion, instead of “has a pulse and a basic attack.”

So then after taking a look at the tree some of you may be thinking, “WTF MAN I PLAY AP JINX AND CLEARLY THE ONLY THING WORTH TAKING FOR ME HERE IS MASTERY X. MASTERIES DON’T MATTER! WHERE ARE MY MEANINGFUL CHOICES!?” Well... to be honest, that’s not the primary goal here. What we want is for every champion to feel like there’s a mastery path for them. More specifically, we’re hoping to draw out and amplify some of the cool things your champion’s kit does, instead of just loading on general power.

As an example, while Janna may appreciate +10% AP, she’s going to feel much more excited about a +10% amp to shields and heals. One of these stats is for almost everyone, but the other speaks to a number of specific supports. Choice in the system is a secondary goal that, while nice to have, is not as important. There’s 126 champions out there and limited space in the tree, so we’d prefer a world where Soraka and Brand both have 1 path that speaks to them, instead of Brand getting 2 and Soraka crying in the corner. That said, giving players meaningful choices is still an important goal, so we’re trying to add it into the trees where we can. We just may not be able to do it for EVERY champion. Also looking at it in other places this preseason, like the item system.

Lastly, a final awesome thing about this new system is that it’s expandable! Remember how the old trees could have up to 4 points per row? Yeah, well we didn’t get rid of that functionality. Things look sparse now but that’s been done intentionally so we can add to the system should the need or want arise further into new season. This is where your feedback comes in. Think there’s no tier 2 keystones for tanky guys who want a little offense on the side? Let us know, we could add that! Think it would be hella sick if Fiddlesticks had a tier 3 keystone that made his AoE wombo even stupider? Please no, but if you have something that could do that in healthy and exciting way then maybe we could find a place to add it! In the words of Syndra, “[the space to add new stuff to masteries] blah blah blah potential is limitless!” Throw your ideas and wants and feels at us and if there truly is something missing or something that ”ASDF WE NEED THIS” then we might end up adding it in!

59 Comments

ProfDrDeath11/6/2015, 10:29:45 PM8 votes

Keystone questions:

  • Bond of Stone: A) Does it stack? Meaning, if two people with BoS are close to, lets say, the ADC, do both of them transfer damage from the ADC to themselves? Or is it a unique effect, like an item passive, of which you can have only one per champion? B) Along those lines: Would it stack between these two people? C) Is there a visual indicator for the effect? D) How would you nerf it if the stacking case becomes too strong?

  • Grasp of the Undying: A) What damage type does it do to the target champion? Physical, magic, true?

  • Warlord's Bloodlust: A) Are both the AS and the heal tied to the cooldown? Or does the AS buff refresh on any crit, with only the heal being on a CD?

  • Fervor of Battle: A) Who is this mastery aimed for? B) Does Lifesteal work with the bonus damage?

Other masteries

  • Perseverance: Is it 50%/200% increase in base regen, like 1/4 item 1006 ? Or does it affect all regen (oh boy)?

EDIT: Additional masteries - potential ideas:

  • Tier 2 Resolve keystone (1-point mastery): A) Reduction in Crit damage (old Reinforced Armor) B) Adaptative Armor

  • No idea for placing: A) Reduced CD on active items? B) An offensive support mastery a la Expose Weakness? Working only on allied damage?

Fear No Arcade11/6/2015, 11:16:56 PM7 votes

TL;DR: I feel like a lot of the masteries are things you take because you have to, not because you want to.

Let's take the Ferocity tree. The tier 1s are both respectable. I play Diana, and both of those stats are amazing on her.

As soon as I get to Tier 2, though, well, there really isn't a meaningful choice. I can either take Double-Edged Sword for +3% damage... or Feast, for less than 1 health per second. Why is that even in the Ferocity tree? If I want to kill stuff, I feel like I'd take Double Edge every single time.

Vampirism versus Natural Talent is a good choice.

But then you get to Bounty Hunter versus Oppressor. Most champs are going to be shoehorned into one or the other: Do you have CC that you'll use in trades? Oppressor, 90% of the time. Not so much? Bounty Hunter. There are a few champs that get to choose, but, most of the time, I think one will be strictly better and, largely in Bounty Hunter's case, because the other is just unusable.

Battering Blows versus Piercing Thoughts is maybe the worst "choice" in the tree. There's almost no case in which I'll be making a meaningful decision between the two. It comes down to the champion I play, every single time. The mastery could easily be something like "7 flat pen: armor if your bonus AD is higher, magic if your bonus AP is higher", while leaving room for another real choice at that tier.

The keystones are cool, though.

The Cunning tree... oh, dear, the Cunning tree.

The tier 1 masteries are both... okay. I don't see how "Savagery" is more "Cunning" than "Fericious", but... that's cool. For a mastery set that's supposed to be usable for assassins and supports, though, I'd think Sorcery would make a much better fit in its place: as an assassin, "Roam or Burst" is a much more meaningful choice than "Roam or Last-Hit". It's not even shafting supports: they don't really get a choice, they're taking "roam" every time, in this tree.

The tier 2 masteries often both feel... unrewarding. As LeBlanc, do I really want biscuits? I guess I'd take enhanced blue buff, by default, but was there really a choice, there? For supports, who'll quite likely never get a jungle buff, is there a choice? Both feel like "meh, I guess I have to take one of these". Compare to Double-Edgded Sword: you want that.

The 3rd tier is great. I really, really want both of those.

The 4th tier is pretty cool, too!

The 5th tier, though, sort of falls flat on choice. Intelligence is just amazing. Even as a burst mage, that extra uptime is so much more of a threat, I think, than the lategame flat penetration. Maybe it comes down to "I just barely can't 100-0 them", but that's not really something you'd know before the game starts. Supports don't get a choice. Again. Maybe that's okay, though, because Intelligence is just the bee's knees.

The keystone tier is neat, too -- even if (many) supports are, again, largely shoehorned into one choice.

Resolve is cool.

Tier one kicks off "okay early game stats" or "good lategame stats". I worry that the turn-on point for Unyielding might be early enough that it just outright outshines Recovery, but that's balanceable. Tier 1 is a solid choice.

Teir 2, though. In the defense tree, would I rather have more roam or more... defense? I feel like Explorer would make a much better addition to the Cunning tree, though that still raises questions like "What would another good, interesting defensive option be?" As it is, it's a solid choice, though.

Tier 3 of Resolve is like Tier 3 of Ferocity, I feel: there's one mastery that you almost absolutely take if you can use it at all, and "the other one", with a few edge cases. If you have any sort of sustain, +8% of that, I think, will often be outright more than 4% of your total health. I mean, anyone who sustains more than half their total health between backs benefits more from the increased healing. It's a number check, not so much a playstyle decision.

Insight and Perseverence are both good, but I feel like one Insight belongs elsewhere (Cunning?).

Swiftness and Legendary Guardian are both awesome.

The last tier is sweet, though.

Deep Terror Nami11/6/2015, 9:12:31 PM7 votes

Any way I can get my enhanced Trinket range back (for warding the jungle bushes from dragon pit)? We're losing that Mastery, unless I missed something (in which case plz let me know).

Kei14311/6/2015, 9:07:52 PM7 votes

I've typed this in xy's thread about vision, but probably not getting any response from him as its probably lost with so many comments.

Now that the scout mastery is gone, isn't that a Nerf to red bot side as I can't wall ward the bot rivier brush from red side bot turret and its gonna be much harder doing scarra wards at dragon from red side.

So.. a Nerf? If so, compensations? Its kidda inline with your ideals of when / where to ward strategically

Vekkna11/6/2015, 11:45:44 PM7 votes

Deathfire grasp is the only viable keystone for mages, and it's still at least as good (often better) for AD fighters than for most mages. Why did you do that?

I'm very salty about Meditation and Merciless being in the same tier. Why must these two be exclusive to one another?

Why is Wanderer only out of combat? Supports are already losing 20 MS out of combat, the MS from the ancient coin line, and the passive 1.5% MS (if taken) from the current trees. As a Zyra player, this is kicking me where it already hurts. Please advise.

Overall, the offensive keystones feel extremely biased toward AD/AA champs. There are exactly two talents that are exciting to me (Deathfire and Intelligence) across my entire roster of champs.

(P.S. I'm feeling a Teemo buff tucked away in the mastery and item changes, so thanks for that if it works out as I'm hoping)

Headbiter11/6/2015, 11:09:16 PM5 votes

This looks awfully a lot like the same route that WoW took back in the days (might want to consult Ghostcrawler on how that worked out). Let's for a moment call it what this new mastery-system is, shall we? It's streamlining to the max. The talent trees (yes, they're called masteries but going with the "Let's call it what it is"-routine here) are essentially a tool to individualise the champions to the individual preferences of the player. By crippli- I mean "Streamlining" them, you're effectively taking away player input, making it less about what the player wants but more about what you (the developers) imagine things to be.

"But we give you choice. Don't you see the three super-talents at the bottom of each tree?" I hear you respond in a gratingly annoying PR-workshop-kind of way. Upon which I have to remind you once again of the cautionary tale that WoW became. The same process of blatently violating the talent trees and therefore player-individualization was justified with the same kind of reason, only that it was called "offering more 'fun'-choices" back then.

It's a mirage, guys. And giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'm going to assume that it's one you create unintentionally. See, in the current incarnation, I as a player have the choice to NOT max out a talent tree. The ultimate talents of each tree are nice, but I can always say (and reasonably so) that maybe I don't need the 3% additional damage of the offensive tree. Given the champion I'm playing and the playstyle I'm going with, I might not even need the additional ArPen/MagPen-talent, therefore making room for 4 additional points that I can use to snatch another useful talent from the utility or defensive tree. It might not be mainstream but it IS a viable choice to make.

It's also GONE now. By trimming down the masteries to such a laughable size, not to speak of making the "ultimate"-tier of each tree so indisputable better than everything on the way, you eliminated any choice of spending your talent points in any other fashion but "Max out one tree, spent rest of points in second one." Effectively, all the 5-point masteries are obsolete and there for show. You might as well cut it down to the keystone-masteries upon which the WoW-similie becomes even more apparent.

That is not giving is more/the same amount of choice, nor is it "refining" the choices we make, it's a buckshot to the knee. You're taking stuff AWAY from us, guys, not giving us more. It's streamlining. And between Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, et al. I honestly have issues comprehending why developers are still clinging to that shite.

Hell, you say it yourself: "What we want is for every champion to feel like there’s a mastery path for them." Given what I previously established masteries/talent trees are, that statement right there renders them obsolete. You directly admit here that you want less player input but more of what YOU GUYS imagine things to go like. But this shouldn't be about your wish-fulfillment. You're not fan fic-writers.

SaltyKracka11/6/2015, 9:23:23 PM5 votes

I'm concerned about the Cunning Tree.

Namely, the fact that the mastery that gives champions Base CDR (and also that neato higher CDR cap) is far enough into it that any champion that wants to grab it has to go 18 points deep.

As a Nasus main, this has me very very worried. Getting early CDR is very key on a lot of champs, but it is absolutely crucial on Nasus, and the fact that you're locking it away in a tree he (and many others) are never going to invest 18 points in is a matter of concern.

WeirWulf11/6/2015, 9:55:58 PM4 votes

Hello there! Firstly just wanted to say the new masteries are my favourite part of all the new changes coming in season 6. Really excited in trying them out when they reach live.

  1. Quite interesting to see the loss of early game flat AD/AP bonuses, was this a conscious decision? If I was to hazard a guess I presume if these masteries existed in the new set then they would become too 'must pick' masteries. I've noticed that all the new masteries feel more like 'nice but not essiential'. I really like this btw, feel like as a result there is a lot more flexibility.

  2. Was curious why Grasp on the undying is halved for ranged champions? Did this prove to be problematic in testing? I guessed since it scales with max health, it wouldn't be overbearing. That said it's still something I want try to pick up marksmen and see how effective it is.

  3. Gotta say I will miss blade weaving/spell weaving. Dunno why, but I really liked those two masteries, definitely something I would like to see make a comeback.

LankPants11/6/2015, 11:39:08 PM3 votes

I feel like losing Arcane Blade was the wrong choice. That mastery always stuck out to me as one of the better ones in league and losing it sucks, especially considering how devoid of mage masteries the pages feel right now.

Speaking of which the mage keystones seam really weak. Thunderlord's damage seems negligible and it's a pain to proc. Deathfire Touch is a bit better, but it means giving up CDR and it's still honestly not great. That leaves Storm Raider's, which is pretty good, but it's not exactly diversity when you have one option.

Compare that to ADCs who get a plethora of masteries to chose from. (all of the ferocity ones are good + Storm Raiders)

OtterPup11/6/2015, 9:25:49 PM3 votes

Is there a concern that warlord's bloodlust gives a lot of sustain to crit based champions much earlier in the game then usual? Most champions that use crit you could jump on or poke out before they got to that 3rd item life steal, or force them to make a choice to delay an item for that earlier lifesteal. Now it feels like before they finish their first item, as long as they have a crit component, it becomes much harder to push them out of lane and they come to team fights always topped off. Do you guys see this as a potential problem to be visited, because warlord's bloodlust feels so much stronger then the other two, especially on a few select champions (cough Yasuo cough)

Koechophe11/6/2015, 9:39:11 PM3 votes

It seems like a lot of these masteries will make certain champions extremely overbearing. Yasuo with the new heal on crit mastery comes to mind, as well as perhaps brand with deathfire, if his passive procs it, and so on and so forth. Is there any plans to nerf champions who have been seen to be too strong on the PBE before pushing these changes to live? Or are you going to push out balance changes in a different patch?

Pyro11/6/2015, 10:48:50 PM3 votes

If you want to test the masteries, but you don't have a PBE account:

http://pyroblasty.github.io/masteries/

made by yours truly.


Questions to devs:

  1. How are you going to push through the message that Cunning is the way to go for assassins and bursty mages? Do you expect the playerbase to adapt by looking at the streamers and build databases, or will you release a "champion spotlight" video for Masteries?
  2. Both Bounty Hunter and Oppressor are pretty conditional - they give nothing unless you fullfill pretty specific requirements. Have you considered adding there something less powerful, but more reliable?
  3. Deathfire Touch seems a little bit overused right now by every type of champion who used to go deep into Offense, junglers included. Is my observation in accord with your data, and if so is that a sign to buff Fervor of Battle, or nerf Deathfire Touch?
  4. Can any champions of classes of champions expect compansation buffs to make up for loss of favourable mastery builds? (ie. Shyvana's loss of hybrid % penetration).
  5. Why does Natural Talent feel so underwhelming? Somehow I can't really see the appeal of miniscule flat AD/AP per level compared to lifesteal/spellvamp which seem to scale much better into the lategame.
  6. Have you considerd being more firm in differentiating between early power and lategame power masteries, for example by removing the scaling component from Natural Talent and Precision?
  7. Why can't we choose more than one 5-point mastery?
eux0r11/6/2015, 11:15:53 PM3 votes

was it a concious choice to drop the ability to spend 30 points into one type of masteries (e.g. 30 defence) and instead make it mandatory to spread your points into other categories or was it just that nobody of the devs over used anything else than 21/9-type masteries? if yes i would be interested in hearing the reasoning.

was it deliberate to drop support for champion+playstyle specific customisation(as you just said yourself) or was it just a result of you not being able to figure out how to do it well? its not quite clear to me from what you have written.

lastly, for the feedback part: ive been trying to get through to you guys, but its basically impossible =( i really miss masteries of the type of blade weaving, spell weaving and arcane blade.

Siachi11/7/2015, 2:33:39 AM3 votes

I like the quote about "[...]Talon's mastery page instead of [...]Offensive AD Page" which makes me wonder if it'd be possible to literally make a mastery page for a specific champion, without the 20 page limit; something like item sets, I mean, where you could have "Well this'll be my offensive [Champion] page for this for a good matchup, but for a tougher matchup I'll get the more defensive [Champion] page."

Sinickle11/6/2015, 11:38:32 PM2 votes

"After months of ideation, we came up with Thunderlord’s Decree, made it super strong, and BOOM, now even Warwick can have perfect gameplay." Master tier Warwick here.. sorry, but I'm planning on getting one of those tank keystones. You can't force me to use any interesting gameplay patterns! :')

I have a concern with Bond of Stone though: what happens if multiple champions have the mastery?

[really though, good work with the new masteries. they seem much better than the old system.]

Jolg11/6/2015, 9:26:53 PM2 votes

Does the +10% to shields and heals apply to Both the Grey health from activating TahmKench's E and the heal if you don't?

Quality Content11/6/2015, 9:21:12 PM2 votes

Alright but what about when things like Tryndamere and Yasuo abusing Warlord's Bloodlust crop up? How do you plan to tackle that?

CCmi8bSMkW11/7/2015, 12:35:44 AM2 votes

Runic Armor, the shield bonus mastery, does not work with Mordekaisers passive. Fix pls.

Healin11/7/2015, 1:20:46 AM2 votes

Super disappointed there is no longer a Gold per 10 mastery.

Right now I almost always run gold quints/seals and the mastery for a total of 6.8 gold per 10. Now you've nerfed it by ~22%. I'll still keep using it no matter what but it will feel significantly worse.

Was there any talk of moving the first part of the Bandit Mastery (what is currently on live as Scavenger) and combining it into a third option with Greed? And bring back Wealth and combine it with the Bandit mastery? That way you can choose between a slower, consistent long game option vs a more sudden early game boost? And of course keep in Dangerous Game as the third option.

LongHair Fox11/7/2015, 1:51:50 AM2 votes

Did you consider ryze and cassiopeia when creating the key stone masteries? To me it looks like the options for dealing continious damage through auto attacks is far better than through spells.

Sorry if this sounds like an opinion posed as a question, it is not on purpose.

I AM BAYMAX11/7/2015, 10:06:27 AM2 votes

Just a general comment, but I believe support keystone masteries are really lacking. There are only 2 options.... One for mage supports and one for tank supports. (Windspeaker's Blessing and Bond of Stone respectively.) I love them both, but there's not really very many choices to make there. Maybe there's room to add some more cool options for supports? There are still characters that aren't really covered with these two masteries, like Bard and Thresh, who aren't too tanky earlier in the game and don't have significant shields/heals.

Linna Excel11/7/2015, 3:55:07 AM2 votes

Some questions:

  1. Why not let people go fully down 2 mastery categories?

  2. Why 3 instead of 5 (one per role)?

  3. Why did you guys get rid of MS mastery that held up in combat? Along those lines, who is explorer intended for?

  4. Soraka has to get runic armor and grasp of the undying doesn't she?

  5. Merciless vs Meditation seems like a very hard decision for a number of mages. What's the thought process for giving players that decision?

  6. For vampirism, I thought you guys were doing away with spell vamp. Is this the new form of it or the old form?

  7. I noticed that you guys increased the value of some jungle camps, why not make that a jungle mastery and have junglers decide between longer buffs and more gold, or more damage vs jungle mobs vs more gold?

  8. Shouldn't the armor pen and magic pen masteries be merged to stay in line with some of the other stuff you guys were doing?

  9. Why is thunderlord's decree CD so long? Why not reduce the damage it gives and make it more reliable?

  10. Last season you added new jungle items to change up smite. This season, why don't we have masteries for that instead?

  11. How good is windspeaker's blessing on a support? I'm thinking about how someone like Janna or Soraka would take it, but squishes don't build armor. That seems a waste of power in general for something so far down the line. This seems like a late game thing if your team remembered to have a tank. Can you clear up the purpose of it for me?

  12. Is warlord's bloodlust OP on ashe?

  13. How is fervor of battle vs deathfire touch on AP mids, specifically in the early game? FoB doesn't take mana, encourages early harass, and AA's cant be dodged. DT also seems weak in that most mids don't have much AP early. That's like 2-4 damage per spell vs up to 10 damage per AA. Has anyone tested an AP mid with doran's blade and FoB vs someone (maybe the same champ) with a ring and DT in the laning phase?

Maikal of Rngsus11/6/2015, 10:50:53 PM1 votes

Issues in the ferocity tree:

  • Natural Talent 10 AD and 15 AP really isn't that relevant at level 18, and most champions can't make effective use of both those stats. The sustain from the other option, vampyrism is at least a little relevant, particularly early game.

  • Oppressor It sucks in comparison to bounty hunter. If you even just have 1 kill with bounty hunter for 1% damage, it is far better than oppressor. Why? You're comparing 1% - 5% permanent increased damage to 2.5% increased damage for the 1 or 2 seconds a target is cc'd.

  • Deathfire touch It has 6 base damage. I hope that's a bug and it's meant to be 6 per level. Pitiful compared to your other options on just about every champion.

  • Sorcery AD casters don't want AP or AS, but spell damage makes AD casters and mages happy. The AP increase should be removed, while increasing the % of increased spell damage so AD casters have something relevant for their first 5 points in the ferocity tree.

  • Warlord's bloodlust and fervor of battle are stupidly broken on some champions.

Issues in the Cunning tree:

  • Secret stash Make the second effect affect flasks please.

  • Precision Same issue as natural talent. The scaling on it is insignificant late game, and the base penetration isn't that significant early game.

Issues with the resolve tree:

  • Perseverance 50% regen sounds meh. 200% sounds amazing. But that 200% can only take you to 20% health. If you're in a situation where you want to sit around and regen, you're probably near 20% health, because if you were at 5% health you'd be recalling despite the regen, so really that 200% becomes irrelevant unless it just barely gives you the hp in a team fight to walk out alive.

  • Recovery It was a pretty insignificant mastery before, it's pretty insignificant now. You just take it on champions that don't build resists because there's nothing better to take. Easily the most useless of all the tier 1 masteries.

  • Strength of the Ages Healing 100 health from siege minions would be stupidly insignificant. What is the use of this supposed to even be? The 300 base health you get is so irrelevant compared to the effective health you get from bond of stone and grasp of the undying.

Ergono11/7/2015, 4:09:08 AM1 votes

Can we get some clarification on Runic Armor? I think out of all the masteries this one is the most interesting due to how +8% bonus is defined for shield and healing.

For healing I figure it's relatively straightforward. Say Nasus has 20% life steal healing for 100 dmg +8% bonus would mean he heals for 108 dmg. Just to clarify this does not equate to 20% + bonus 8% for a total of 28% lifesteal. This is probably not the case as this would give Darius way too much power even if he is still capped at 36%, unless the 8% is specially coded to be divided by 3 where to get the full bonus 8% you have to hit 3 champions at once making the mastery less effective for Darius. Or can Darius effectively increase his Q heal to 44%. Though in retrospect, I can see this as being the case due to the grievous wound itemization changes. Actually I think the 20%+8% makes since as it would balance out grievous wound and other reduced healing abilities/effects.

But, bonus shield is a whole different beast. Does it play by the same rules as healing? For example my shield has 100 pts so with runic it has 108? Because then it becomes lackluster especially for Mordekaiser who has one of the most complex shield mechanics.

1.As you are aware Mordekaiser gains 25% of his max health as shield. Does +8% bonus equate to 25%+8%= 33% of his Max Health or is it 8% of 25% increasing his shield by a dismal 2% or 27% of his max health.

  1. How does this equate to his shield generation where 25% of his dmg to enemy champion is converted to his shield, while 12.5% is converted from minions. Does the Runic bonus interact with this where 25%+8% or once again 8% of 25.

  2. Dovetailing from #2 his E automatically generates 15% of his Max shield or 3.75% of his Max Health per champion hit. Is this 15% or 3.75%+8% or 8% of these numbers. Or is this ability completely independent of the mastery.

This mastery screams Mordekaiser but something tells me the mastery does not play nice with such complex rules making veteran scars a better choice because it directly increases his MAX Health.

Not to mention the healing portion also has ambiguous interactions with his ultimate, which is %HP based healing. Say he does 40% over ten seconds, 20% on initial cast and the other 20% DOT. Is he potentially healing for 48% or 54% or is it 8% of 40%= 43%. With grievous wound mechanics seemingly geared towards reducing tank sustain if it is this weak I feel like there are issues with this mastery if it's geared toward the weaker examples I have provided.

All in all I am the most excited for Runic Armor just hoping it actually adds some power to these type of characters.

Selegun11/7/2015, 2:31:18 AM1 votes

Why does the tough skin mastery in the resolve tree share the icon of the precision mastery in the cunning tree? I know its a dumb question but it bothers me a little each time I notice it when looking over the new mastery pages.

eux0r11/6/2015, 11:58:35 PM1 votes

"But we do believe that the improvements we’ve made to the system will result in a lot more players asking the question, “What do I want in my Talon mastery page?” instead of “what do I want in my offensive AD character X page?”"

to me this looks like exactly what you did not do, quite the opposite. i dont see what other choices a talon would make compared to a zed.

ill do some shameless plugs for my angry rant and my less angry and more concise feedback since all the concerns i want to bring up have been ignored so far. (look, im ok with you ignoring me but please dont leave the problems unaddressed)

ArcRaizen11/7/2015, 12:17:36 AM1 votes

How do you feel about designing the "Cunning" tree for assassins, but then putting the % total armor/magic penetration masteries in the "Ferocity" tree, especially after the changes to Last Whisper going to % bonus armor penetration only for AD assassins? I understand assassins are meant to target low-armor targets, but basically every champion gains armor per level, so by late-game flat-penetration loses value and there are no viable % total armor penetration items for assassins.

Take Talon for example: its obvious the preferred Keystone mastery for him is Stormraider's Surge (its icon is basically a picture of him). Along the way, he takes Merciless, Dangerous Game, and Precision, all masteries great for AD assassins. He puts his 12 remaining points into the Ferocity tree, but cannot reach Battering Blows for % armor penetration (an extremely valued stat). His other option is to put 18 points into Ferocity, but none of the Keystones truly apply to him: Warlord's Bloodlust and Fervor of Battle are for crit-based Marksman/Yasuo/Tryndamere, and Deathfire Touch is alright, but assassins want burst which it clearly isn't at all. So either option Talon or other AD assassins make is non-optimal: you lose the best Keystone mastery for your champion, or you lose one the most powerful stats for your champion. Again, I realize the new masteries are about making distictive and meaningful choices, but this feels less like "which should I choose between" and more "which one screws me over less."

LiunUK11/7/2015, 9:09:19 AM1 votes

When you said that you could add more masteries, do you already have any ideas?

Also when you said a possible mastery for tanks that want a bit of extra damage do you mean something like 5% of armor and magic resist as basic attack damage? because i think that it would round of allot of tank supports really well.

Fisk11/7/2015, 1:11:01 AM1 votes

Hey rioters! First, I wanna say the new masteries (and preseason six changes as a whole) look AWESOME. I'm really excited. However, I'm worried about my favorite champion Bard. I am thinking he will be ok but the problem I see is none of these final masteries are truly optimal on him since he doesn't really want full tank OR damage and isn't really a healing focused champ either. I think we will see thunderlords decree (that mastery is so cool) on him but since it scales on bonus ad and ap it isn't truly optimal. So, and I know this is pretty short sighted and singular champion focused, but a cunning mastery that would grant something fully utility focused (maybe stuns last 15% longer or something along those lines?) would be great for Bard and maybe other champs that don't want heal/tank/damage stats but still want a meaningful final mastery. Thoughts?

Jarn11/7/2015, 1:17:37 AM1 votes

I have a suggestion for a keystone: 4 % of damage dealt to champions splash in a moderate radius. Multiple splashes can overlap. (For aoe burst champs) Viktor Velkoz Orianna Annie

Give dem mages some love, they need it.