General Changes to Objectives for Mid-season

RiotRiot GMang·Apr 19, 2016·1 votes·75,737 views

Hey everybody,

Hopefully you’ve had the chance to check out our Dragon and Mage changes for mid-season. We’ve got a bunch of other objective changes to Summoner’s Rift going in the patch, and I wanted to share those + context with ya’ll and take your questions and feedback!

Everything is subject to tuning and future iteration, of course.

Rift Herald We’re pushing to make Rift Herald a more unique and meaningful objective for those looking to dominate the top half of the map. This new Rift Herald should be a more contestable objective with a clearer purpose: long-term selfish power for one team member - especially a lone-wolf or split push character.

Rift Herald now spawns at 6 minutes and never respawns
Rift Herald’s stats significantly increased (should be much harder to solo)
Doom’s Eve removed and replaced with a unique Superbuff:
Lasts 20 minutes and persists through death
While alone, you gain some damage reduced vs. champions and build Corruption stacks
At 100 stacks, your next attack discharges all Corruption to deal bonus magic damage (works on almost anything, including minions and towers; damage is reduced for ranged attacks)
Corruption stack rate and discharge damage scale with champion level

Hopefully this excites top laners, junglers, and some mids. We’re keeping an eye on it to ensure it’s powerful, but also contestable and not too game-ending.

Red and Blue Buffs

Late-game, Red and Blue buff have been somewhat ignorable these days. We’re buffing and compressing their power in the mid-late game to make them more appreciable objectives to leverage or steal, especially in games that are in a standstill and need things to fight over and create power windows.

Red Buff
Burn now applies a damage tick immediately on apply or reapply (stronger attack-speed scaling); damage-per-tick reduced to compensate
Health regen now scales steeply with champ level but turns off when in combat with champions or epic monsters (currently triples at level 6 and again at level 11!)
Blue Buff
AP per level replaced with +15% total Ability Power (like Rabadon’s Deathcap effect)
Mana regen based on max Mana doubled (flat regen unchanged)
Buff Durations
Red and Blue will last the same duration on your first clear, but all Red and Blue buffs after that will have a 90-second duration instead of 120

When you’re looking to make a play in mid-late game, buff camps should be juicier targets now, especially if you can steal them from the enemy’s side of the map!

Camp Respawn Timers

In order to facilitate more coordinated and contested objective play at all skill levels, we’re making a some UI changes. This also has the benefit of reducing timekeeping and chat-typing work.

When a camp that has a timer (Red, Blue, Dragon, Baron, Rift Herald) has less than 60 seconds to spawn, its timer is revealed to both teams at that time (regardless of their vision of the camp), and an “about to spawn” icon appears in the minimap simultaneously (will replace regular camp icon if you still haven’t seen the cleared camp by the time its respawn has 60 seconds left)
To clarify, if you never have vision of enemy jungle, you won't see any changes for the first 4 minutes after their camp dies. But at 60 seconds remaining to respawn, you will get new information over live.
The respawn icon starts dull at 60 seconds to spawn and becomes bright at 20 seconds

We generally like seeing more fights around objectives, and promoting objective awareness like this can help a lot. After getting used to the new UI, rallying your team around a Dragon spawn or even a buff steal can often be done with a simple ping instead of having to type things out in chat.

Turrets

Turrets have several changes in store. Overall, we want them to be more defendable places to stand your ground, reduce their takedown reward compared to other objectives, clean up some of their mechanics, and rebudget their defenses so things other than marksmen basic attacks can contribute more to turret takedowns.

Turret Damage Ramp
Inner and Outer turrets more quickly ramp up their damage when attacking champions, and they maintain full damage when switching targets.
Inner and Outer turrets only take 4 shots to ramp up to full damage (instead of 5).
Turret Takedown Rewards
Outer turret total gold reward reduced, though local gold reward is increased (local gold 220 -> 300, global gold 125 -> 100)
Inner turret gold rewards reduced (local gold 250 -> 175, global gold 150 -> 125) and XP reward removed
Inhibitor turret local gold reward increased (0 -> 50)
AP Damage Conversion
When your attacks trigger AP damage conversion (occurs when attacking a turret while your AP is more than double your bonus AD), the converted damage is now magic instead of physical
Turret Stats
Base Armor/MR increased (from 0 to 40), Base Health decreased (from 4000 to 3300)
Turrets are now subject to penetration (generally tankier than Live unless you have about 20 penetration or have a true damage proc; overall a small nerf to marksmen damage, but a buff to some mages and assassins)
Reinforced Armor converted from 200 Armor/MR to 66.67% damage reduction

Overall, diving and taking turrets should be less of a freebie than what we’ve seen recently.

Let’s hear your thoughts!

257 Comments

warpenguin555Apr 19, 201649 votes

Im going to have to say no to that herald change. that looks to be flat out broken. Instead of it lasting 20 minutes and through death, do you think that maybe killing the buff holder could instead reduce its duration by a few minutes? The way you guys are currently pitching it makes it look like if the enemy top laner gets that buff you automatically lose lane, which is not fun gameplay

HexaDecimelApr 19, 20169 votes

I feel like the duration of the buff is way too long, and overall it sounds like it give the lucky team who gets it too much of an advantage for too long. It would be interesting if the buff could be stolen. Perhaps similar to a blue or red buff. That way it might not feel as bad to play against knowing that your not just screwed because the other side got to the buff first.

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 201614 votes

We've been very careful about tuning the snowball and lane-ending concerns on it. That's a big part of why it spawns later, scales with champ level, costs much more health/time to take, offsets its power into a duration that's longer than lane phase, and has a discharge mechanic that gets spent when last-hitting. We're prepared to go harder on those mechanisms if we see the buff deciding lanes too much, but we haven't been seeing that in playtests. And, if those aren't enough, we probably will try more direct mechanics like the duration-reducing death penalty you described.

warpenguin555Apr 19, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot GMang,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=jun5Iyp4,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:15:55.603+0000)

We've been very careful about tuning the snowball and lane-ending concerns on it. That's a big part of why it spawns later, scales with champ level, costs much more health/time to take, offsets its power into a duration that's longer than lane phase, and has a discharge mechanic that gets spent when last-hitting. We're prepared to go harder on those mechanisms if we see the buff deciding lanes too much, but we haven't been seeing that in playtests. And, if those aren't enough, we probably will try more direct mechanics like the duration-reducing death penalty you described.

so what would your team want to do if the enemy gets this?

Spaceman5pffApr 19, 20166 votes

Lane swap? Idfk it is SUPPOSED to reward the team that gets it with an advantage.

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 201610 votes

You play around it like someone earning a small gold lead. It will help them in fights, but doesn't mean they auto-win, and it doesn't affect their allies' strength. It's power budgeted around a Keystone mastery, but the encounter is pretty costly and a lot of the power is deferred. If we see it deciding games too much, we'll adjust with patches.

Ultimately, if the enemy team is trying to dominate the top half of the map, you can either work to prevent it, or focus on winning other areas of the map. During playtests it hasn't seemed to need a silver bullet for playing against.

Wizard HatApr 19, 201616 votes

This seems really worrying to me. Currently most rift heralds happen in my games (plat elo) when a top goes missing, and the opposing jungler/midlaner aren't willing/able/attentive enough to roam, and the opposing top doesn't want to contest 1v2 and just die. Essentially, it's a result of one team caring more about their toplaner than the other team. Having a permanent, long lasting buff would only magnify this. Toplaners who are in position to take heralds are already generally winning lane, and this will make them win even harder, so it will likely be impossible for the non-heralded top to stay in lane alone. I don't expect junglers who have been neglecting top to drop everything and come camp top, especially when they are at a disadvantage in any 2v2 and may even lose to a 2v1 (to me, this buff sounds like turning every toplaner into a 3/0 level 6 renekton, which is at the point where you give up top outer and pray he doesn't try to go for inner). It punishes toplaners for not having their team's help, and it will make the game even worse for toplaners who are left to fend for themselves.

FilipCofi223Apr 19, 20161 votes

Basically you should be able to keep it warded and have your jungler counter gank/ counter the Rift Harald. Fact is it's going to be a big objective that you need to keep tabs on and its going to shake the game up, which is what we need. League has been pretty stagnant for a long time.

Sire HippingtonApr 21, 20165 votes

keep it warded? Well, thx to the glorious preseason vision removel, thats actually quite a hard task. Either your with very little protection vs ganks(most top-tier junglers can easily path in a way that goes around herald/baron pit) or forces you to get sightstone or spent the majority of your gold on a pinkward battle with your opponent...

DesireZApr 19, 20162 votes

Um, you are saying that this 20 minutes is a bit too broken, let me tell you that what you wrote here makes it even more broken. Look, if you kill a buff holder(buff is at 20 mins), the buff is gone. You said that if you kill the buff holder the buff isn't gone, instead, it's still there, but a bit shorter, so you have to kill him multiple times to take the buff out, which is even worse._. idk what were u thinking here or did you just write it out wrong xD

warpenguin555Apr 19, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=RejecteD Vayne,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=jun5Iyp4,comment-id=00030003,timestamp=2016-04-19T22:34:47.610+0000)

Um, you are saying that this 20 minutes is a bit too broken, let me tell you that what you wrote here makes it even more broken. Look, if you kill a buff holder(buff is at 20 mins), the buff is gone. You said that if you kill the buff holder the buff isn't gone, instead, it's still there, but a bit shorter, so you have to kill him multiple times to take the buff out, which is even worse._. idk what were u thinking here or did you just write it out wrong xD

What they have right now is that it persists through death. so yeah kill that guy all you want its not going to get rid of the buff.

hopeful4Apr 19, 201628 votes

Why in gods name you keep giving tons of free information to the enemy team for literally doing nothing? Yes im talking about the new timers. You realize how much less meaningful you are doing vision control in your jungle and enemy jungle?

doing okApr 19, 201613 votes

Because you're not supposed to beat them with information, you have to beat them with ~~teamwork~~ :))) that's why dynamic queue was implemented :)))

/s im really salty about the auto timers...

PyrobolserApr 20, 20166 votes

I feel like the "Camp Respawn Timers" is just another way to reduce the skill cap of the game. I know they want league to be more accessible to new players. But as a MOBA, and a competitive game, I think they should reward players with good mecanics and objective awardness instead of making every one equal.

HellioningApr 19, 201615 votes

Yes, this is exactly what I want. More reasons for my top laner to pretend the rest of the map doesn't exist.

Also: Are you supposed to get the timer for blue/red buff when you didn't see it die originally? Because on the PBE, that is currently the case on PBE and it is dumb.

doing okApr 19, 201614 votes

I gotta say that I really don't like the auto timers. For example, let's say I'm consistently shutting down their vision by taking scuttler, killing their jg, killing wards etc. And then they know when my red spawns anyway, and invade me with their dynamic q buddies while the strangers on my team don't help me :^). I feel like this rewards less skilled players...(not that i'm very good but just sayin)

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 201614 votes

Whether a certain piece of information should be a reward or a baseline can be pretty debatable. Should we show you the expiration timer on enemy scuttle crab? The death timers on enemy champions? Spell cooldowns on allied champions? Buff durations on enemy champions? There are skill and reward arguments to be made about all sorts of things. Sometimes you say "play for this information," sometimes you say "play with this information." The cost benefit has to be weighed in each case.

In the case of red and blue buff, we found that games had more strategic variance, coordinated playmaking, and exciting mid-games when both teams played with this information instead of for it. There is de-emphasis on scouting camp takedowns and a greater emphasis on both sides fighting to contest those camps as they respawn. It is a tradeoff for sure. But in this case we feel it's worth it.

Tangentially, there's also the question of whether information that can be derived should just be clearly shown. Red and Blue respawn, technically speaking, can be derived from looking at someone's buff bar while they hold the red/blue buff. It can also be derived from spectating the game. A similar thing happened with Baron timer: while we can make people calculate this stuff, it's basically public knowledge for those willing to do book keeping on it. How valuable is that to ask people to do?

StagsApr 19, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot GMang,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=jun5Iyp4,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2016-04-19T23:02:04.981+0000)

Whether a certain piece of information should be a reward or a baseline can be pretty debatable. Should we show you the expiration timer on enemy scuttle crab? The death timers on enemy champions? Spell cooldowns on allied champions? Buff durations on enemy champions? There are skill and reward arguments to be made about all sorts of things. Sometimes you say "play for this information," sometimes you say "play with this information." The cost benefit has to be weighed in each case.

In the case of red and blue buff, we found that games had more strategic variance, coordinated playmaking, and exciting mid-games when both teams played with this information instead of for it. There is de-emphasis on scouting camp takedowns and a greater emphasis on both sides fighting to contest those camps as they respawn. It is a tradeoff for sure. But in this case we feel it's worth it.

Tangentially, there's also the question of whether information that can be derived should just be clearly shown. Red and Blue respawn, technically speaking, can be derived from looking at someone's buff bar while they hold the red/blue buff. It can also be derived from spectating the game. A similar thing happened with Baron timer: while we can make people calculate this stuff, it's basically public knowledge for those willing to do book keeping on it. How valuable is that to ask people to do?

Thank you for giving your guys' thought processes: it was a really enlightening read!

I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt to these changes- generally speaking, most big changes seem game-breaking until you actually get to feel them at play. That said, I think one of my reasons for initial pushback against no "effort" buff timers is the strength it gives invade junglers/punishes late game junglers and kind of forces them into Tracker's Knife.

I think a better compromise of the system would be if "visiting" a dead Red/Blue gave your team the timer & visual indicator for the next one instead. It still rewards taking the risk of early invade by giving information on a strong objective ~~and doesn't turn Silver into an invade/counter-invade clown fiesta~~

HellioningApr 19, 201620 votes

As a tank jungler, I don't WANT people fighting for my buffs. That's the thing. I will probably lose that fight.

MasalarApr 20, 20162 votes

Counter point: If you know they're going to invade, (and with this system, so will your team), it's easier to punish the invade.

HellioningApr 20, 201623 votes

And if my team was actually capable of paying attention, that'd be great.

MasalarApr 20, 20169 votes

Sure. Just like I can't play Sej, Amumu or Zac because I can't bank on my teammates following up on my ult. Or Support because I can't trust my ADC. And, well, I shouldn't gank as a jungler because I can't trust my teammates to help either. At some point, the possibility of bad allies can't be the deciding factor.

pybaeApr 20, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot GMang,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=jun5Iyp4,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2016-04-19T23:02:04.981+0000)

Whether a certain piece of information should be a reward or a baseline can be pretty debatable. Should we show you the expiration timer on enemy scuttle crab? The death timers on enemy champions? Spell cooldowns on allied champions? Buff durations on enemy champions? There are skill and reward arguments to be made about all sorts of things. Sometimes you say "play for this information," sometimes you say "play with this information." The cost benefit has to be weighed in each case.

In the case of red and blue buff, we found that games had more strategic variance, coordinated playmaking, and exciting mid-games when both teams played with this information instead of for it. There is de-emphasis on scouting camp takedowns and a greater emphasis on both sides fighting to contest those camps as they respawn. It is a tradeoff for sure. But in this case we feel it's worth it.

Tangentially, there's also the question of whether information that can be derived should just be clearly shown. Red and Blue respawn, technically speaking, can be derived from looking at someone's buff bar while they hold the red/blue buff. It can also be derived from spectating the game. A similar thing happened with Baron timer: while we can make people calculate this stuff, it's basically public knowledge for those willing to do book keeping on it. How valuable is that to ask people to do?

I think you should fight for that information. Invading the enemy jungle isn't something without risk and it shouldn't be. And of course, you can calculate when their buffs are up, but that applies to a variety of camps excluding buffs. You could do the same with Gromp/Krugs/Raptors buff and calculate what camps are up by counting CS. But the problem is both accuracy and feasibility. In a game, it's very hard to do all this "book keeping" as you said, while still pressuring the map, ganking, fighting, and controlling vision. Which is why people invade for vision instead. I do understand the need for removing this "book keeping", but if it's all gone, then what's left? A bunch of skirmishes around buffs that favors mechanics and early game junglers over all?

The higher elo, the more information and coordination people play with. Junglers begin to time their enemy camps, top laners note TP timers, and all laners time summoners and ping you where the wards are. These are all things that can be considered "book keeping." If Riot's going to make buff timers global, why not make enemy TP or flash timers global as well. After all, these summoners spell are even used in vision, so why not? I think the difference is that this information is something that is earned and can then be capitalized on. Having this information directly influences how players play the map and thus better players are more likely to record it. The same goes for these buffs.

Finally, you do have to consider the jungle meta as it is right now. It's likely that if you give timers to buffs, as you've mentioned, that more people are willing to fight around them. Playing against one of the best junglers, Kindred, Nidalee, Graves, Elise, Gragas, as a weaker jungler is already a grueling experience. Giving these strong junglers even more opportunities to fight further restricts the meta. The jungling meta as it is right now, especially in SoloQ, is already hectic enough and I haven't had a stagnant game in quite some time. Making these buff timers public doesn't simplify the game, it removes some of its complexity entirely. You should be fighting for both vision in the enemy jungle and the camps themselves.

SquirrellyOtterApr 19, 20168 votes

Would the jungle timer UI changes reward teams that don't ward as well as they should, considering they will be able to coordinate an invade for a buff steal and possible a kill basically for free, given the new "about to spawn" icons and global timers on sided buffs?

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 201614 votes

In some ways that may be true, but since both sides always see them, warding ends up gaining importance in other ways.

They will be contested more often, so having vision just for tactical advantage becomes important.
Both sides should expect more invade steals, so vision wars around those buffs will increase.
Invade steals will get more precise in timing, so playing the vision game around river becomes more critical in giving you time to intercept.

In our playtests, strategic players (especially supports and junglers) have tended to like the change, since they create more opportunities to make and deny plays and control vision around the objectives (instead of directly on them).

RimiApr 19, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot GMang,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=jun5Iyp4,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:24:35.269+0000)

In some ways that may be true, but since both sides always see them, warding ends up gaining importance in other ways.

They will be contested more often, so having vision just for tactical advantage becomes important.

Both sides should expect more invade steals, so vision wars around those buffs will increase.

Invade steals will get more precise in timing, so playing the vision game around river becomes more critical in giving you time to intercept.

In our playtests, strategic players (especially supports and junglers) have tended to like the change, since they create more opportunities to make and deny plays and control vision around the objectives (instead of directly on them).

Setting up that vision is really difficult though since you can't buy wards...it really locks junglers into trackers now..

DatDingoChingoApr 19, 20167 votes

Either they can get trackers for easier monitoring of that area,and thus higher chance of getting their buff, or they can get stalkers/skirmishers to increase their combat power, while they can put a pink near one of the buffs but overall have a lower chance of getting their buff. It pushes choosing for more defense of your own jungle (tracker) or offense of the enemy jungle (skirmisher/stalker), the way I see it.

bloodnthundrApr 19, 20169 votes

first a question.

do the enemies also get this timer even though they haven't seen the blue buff die?

if yes then what's the reasoning behind this. if you don't "know" when the blue, red, camps died then why should you know when they respawn. i don't really see as to why you should be "rewarded" even though you didn't have vision to see the buff die.

RiotRiot GMangApr 20, 201616 votes

Yep.

Just because one instance of skill expression and reward is being de-emphasized, that doesn't mean overall skill expression or reward is reduced. We're putting more emphasis on maximizing your team's objective participation across the map, while removing emphasis from certain forms of scouting.

Will invading enemy jungle be easier? Well, it will be less dictated by certain kinds of vision play. But that doesn't mean there won't be skillful interaction there, it just means it might be more about optimizing map position to coincide with respawns, and actually fighting in jungle, moreso than gaining/denying vision coverage

We've felt in most cases that giving players information about things to fight over tends to be net positive in the game being fun and, often, in being skillful. That's not to say no skill has been removed, but the skill check of "what do you do with this information" can often be more interesting than "can you get this information." In mechanics like timer tracking, we tend to value the former over the latter. Though that's not true for ALL mechanical spaces.

To do a simplified analogy: if we were both playing darts, I might suggest "we should play blindfolded and spin around before throwing!" Does this make the game more skillful? Well, it applies a kind of skill test that wasn't here before (spacial memory and managing vertigo), which might be neat. But it does so at the cost of another skill value: rewarding actual throwing precision. There's a good chance that the game is worse at testing skills you care about, even if it tests more skills on paper.

In this case, we're saying "let's drop this blindfold." Both in theory and in playtesting, we find the game more fun that way.

NotSoEvilDeadApr 20, 201616 votes

Your analogy is so off-the-mark that, honestly, I find it to be pretty disrespectful and tone deaf.

You aren't going to encourage more skillful play with this change. You're encouraging players to pick a small number of champions with both the mobility and ranged damage required to pick up these buffs at low- or no-risk. That's exactly the opposite of skillful play.

AMYS GRAVEApr 20, 20164 votes

Your analogy is so off-the-mark

ahahahaha it was a darts analogy....

NotSoEvilDeadApr 20, 20165 votes

His "logic" is so arbitrary and capricious that he could use that to literally justify changing anything in the game he doesn't like. It's preposterous.

We'll see if he comes back with a meaningful reply. I won't hold my breath.

Links1995Apr 20, 20164 votes

How about a meaningful reply from yourself because I'm curious, What portion of this logic is fallible?

NotSoEvilDeadApr 21, 20164 votes

If I want to reply to you, I will. Asking for replies on unrelated posts is the height of arrogance. Get over yourself.

GoosetardApr 20, 20166 votes

How does extending this logic not directly lead to the conclusion that fog of war should simply be removed?

PimpinaboxApr 19, 20168 votes

Honestly, I'm not sure I want to play this version of league.

Edit: And I've been here a very long time.

KesslerCOILApr 20, 20164 votes

agreed.
I feels like Riot is too afraid to admit when they've screwed up, so instead of reverting changes they try to do something "unique" that screws everything up even more.
Dragon not being contested enough? Dont give it more gold, just throw in an RNG gimmick that could have serious implications at all levels of play.
Blue and Red buff not being valued enough? better give everyone a timer so tank junglers see even less play and Lee Sin can steal it, gaining even more popularity.
Rift Herald not seen as being worth it? Instead of tweaking it's power, why not give players an ultimatum of Kill it or deal with the enemy having a super tank for 20min.
Towers been too weak for 3 seasons? better give it a minor buff vs ADCs, nerf it vs mages and assasins AND give Rift Herald passive the ability to nuke towers too.

rinsujoApr 20, 20163 votes

Yep. Strategy and thought out the window because why track what's going on in game when you can just hit tab. More and more focus on microcontrolling and positioning and mechanical play, less and less on personal strategy. To be fair, I DO like that this enables me to coordinate with soloqueue slightly better, but that isn't enough to mitigate the fact that my opponent is going to be running through my jungle tilting the shit out of me because he knows the second my blue comes back.

But Riot can do no wrong, and anything they've changed is gone forever.

StagsApr 19, 20165 votes

Some of these changes look decent, but I'm very much not a fan of auto-timers on Red and Blue buff. They certainly made sense for Dragon and Baron: those are effectively "neutral" objectives seated between both teams. Red and Blue, however, are rooted deep in either teams' jungle. Essentially giving teams "free" information about those buffs spawning almost seems like it creates too many objectives to be managing and rotating to for an average team.

Already in lower ELO (and sometimes even in higher), you have players panic rush Dragon when contesting it isn't critical and treating every lost dragon, regardless of number, as the only win condition. I really don't want to deal with the # of people who are going to try to rush and steal the new red/blue, then tilt off the face of the planet if they lose it (or God forbid, their own).

20 Minutes on Herald buff is just ridiculously too much as well and frankly, I don't think it's going to accomplish much. Either it becomes an issue where it's so strong, people just wait until late game pre-Baron to kill it so it's less punishing (since its dmg has been buffed), or it's effectively "traded" between teams (Red Team goes Dragon, so Blue goes Herald and vice versa) early on.

I think we'll have to wait for some PBE testing to assess, but in their current incarnation I think a lot of these changes are just too strong. (That's not the worst thing for PBE though. It's easier to nerf something that's too powerful than buff something without making it OP.)

jdizzle367Apr 19, 20163 votes

Im not a fan of it I think it will just make aggressive top laners snowball too far out of control but I think it can be balanced with a little trial and error.

CookielootsApr 20, 20165 votes

You do realize that all that you are doing with global buff re-spawn timers is give the lazy snowballing teams more buffs right? I mean even in this iteration of the game on live, good players/teams that are already snowballing a game take the buffs anyways. Your only shot even now as a losing team is just to hope the team is too lazy or lacks awareness that the buff is up and maybe you get to sneak an occasional buff or 2 while losing. But now after you guys made the buffs have more impact and gave the snowballing team a dinner bell to all buff re-spawns it will just make it impossible to lock up a buff period for losing teams. Why don't u guys just give baron/dragon pit true vision for both teams while your at it to create more strategic impact?

HexaDecimelApr 19, 20163 votes

With all the changes happening such as Zigg's satchel executing towers under 25% health, or Dragon buffs that increase damage to turrets I think that the towers will still feel a little weak. Especially with a wave of minions to take aggro they will probably still fall fairly quickly.

I like that tower diving will be a little harder but not impossible. But I am not sure the overall health should have been nerfed. I guess this will help with the early game and probably have a trickle down effect. Guess I will have to wait and see.

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 201611 votes

We're aiming to buff more than nerf towers overall. If they end up dying too fast we'll try to adjust in a timely fashion.

MrWasjigApr 20, 201610 votes

in a timely fashion

Yeah we've all heard that one before [slayer-jinx-wink]

RimiApr 19, 20163 votes

Can you explain the blue and red buff respawn timers more? Will it show on the map when the camps are taken too??? This really sounds like it's going to be a big deal..

RiotRiot GMangApr 19, 20166 votes

When a Red or Blue has 1 minute left to spawn, BOTH teams update respawn timers and get a minimap icon indicating it will respawn soon. No matter what their vision has been during the game.

And ya it definitely changes things, expect more invades and steals.

doing okApr 19, 201617 votes

any concerns that more invades=less slow tank junglers and more lee sins?

iamcausticApr 19, 20163 votes

I'd expect invades to become more team-oriented, like Dragon/Baron. Already see that good players will provide backup on a buff invade, you just don't see it a lot in lower Elo because the co-ordination isn't there.